I'm still looking for a quote on the souls getting destroyed thing. I'm sure I've read it ingame somewhere, probably in Nightfall or in anything related to Dhuum. I admit that this isn't professional and I take my argument back that Shiro can never come back, as I can't proof it right now. I still think it would be boring to have him come back again. (That guy died 4 times already!)
GW1's plot was cheesy, atleast we can agree on that. Prophecies and actually every storyline of the GW universe so far wasn't the best. I personally prefer Nightfall, since it made sense in itself and had nice callbacks to the older campaigns. If anything I would like to get some story focus on Elona again in GW2, since it's the continent I have the fondest memories of.
Well I live in a city that's over 2000 years old (and was probably a settlement for much longer than that), so 200 years aren't really that much of impressing time scale for me. That aside, the Mursaat were pretty much wiped out by the titans, the few that survived were killed during the war in Kryta or went into hiding like Lazarus. The only possibility for them to come back are 2 things we learned in GW2! First of there is still the Isle of Janthir, secondly they are able to phase out of the world, as it is explained in Arah explorable path. Now you tell me how giving them a chance to come back is screwing the the old lore.
Now we have new enemies to fight, what's so bad about this? Abaddon's story is told, the Mursaat are possibly on the brink of extinction like all other elder races, except the Jotun who went full-retard. Depsite some people claim in this thread, old lore isn't abandoned, it just extended. Dragon lore is directly tied to Mursaat/Seer/Dwarven lore. Now I can see how you can get the feeling that it comes out of nowhere. But it doesn't, see Sorrow's Furnace we heard first about the Great Destoyer. What is that? Well at first nothing but an obscure reference, like most of the lore from Prophecies times. However Anet went back to this reference and made a whole new story out of it. No it was never planned from the start, but so wasn't the Battle of Jahai when we first heard about Elonians and Palawa Joko.
Another thing we agree on, Charr were generic in GW1. What I don't get is how them being the faceless villian is better than giving them an actual working civilization, which is inspired by, but not a direct copy of several human civilizations. Again, yes you can make races more alien, but you can't make all alien, and the more alien they are, the less likely it is that players can relate to them. Alien races are interesting as a side note, something your character interacts with, but not as a playable race. I'm certain that no game ever let you play a race that was 100% alien to humans. Firsty because I think it's impossible for a human writer to come up with that anyway and secondly only few people would play it. And again, this has been my point all along, despite you claiming that I changed it.
To that thing about the Jihad, first of, while muslims conquered the area to spread their religion, it was not the same as with the Charr. Charr killed their gods (or rather the humans killed them for the Charr...) and then setteled on how praying to gods makes you weak. They however did not attack the humans or anyone to spread there believe, they purely attacked other races for conquest. They also would kill a god if they had the oppurtunity. The muslims allowed other religions in there territory, atleast the abrahimic ones. Another thing that is different, in Tyria gods are real, and everyone beside the Sylvari had contact with them. In our world, that's highly debatable.
I for one enjoy non-human races for the simple reason that I am a human in real life. Games are about fulfilling your fantasies, might it be to become the winner of the super bowl or being a 2 meter tall green skinned brute. For example I love the Norn because they are free-spirited, independed, strong, attuned to nature (in my opinion atleast as much, if not more so than the Sylvari), brave, adventuress and a lot of more things I would love to be myself. Hell if I could affort it, I would just travel the world, see where people need my help and live my life as and adventure. Society however doesn't allow me to live like that, that's why I play a Norn, through this character I can have my adventure anyway. I would not play a Norn if they completly alien to my views.
Well it does seem a bit silly that a soul should die if it's killed in the afterlife. Also, the reaper of the bone pits talks about something causing spirits to be cast into the RoT. Why would that even be done instead of just killing them? On top of that, it seems to me that Shiro had a quite special... inner power. Still, sure, it would be boring to have him as the main villain. I have to agree.
I also agree that Nightfall was probably the best of the GW1 stories. EotN probably the worst.
Heh, well, 200 years might seem small compared to 2000. But consider where even your city was 200 years ago. 1812, come on... Napoleon was still alive! People rode around on horses. Electric lights were not invented yet, never mind electronics. People washed their clothes when they started to itch... mm, feel that smell. 200 years is a long time.
But giving the mursaat a chance to come back... Yes, sure, but you have to recall that they were not really villains, they just behaved as such. They manipulated the Krytans into killing off Chosen, etc., certainly villainous things, but for a good purpose. So what was the origin of the GW1 conflict?
(actual question. what was the relationship between the mursaat and the vizier of orr before the charr invasion?)
Either way, I would rather like to see the mursaat being on our side. Against the eidolons. It would be awesome.
Yes, ANet worked off the Great Destroyer mentioned in the SF quests and made the EotN story from that... But it never felt genuine. I mean, in Elona, we fought a god, but now here the dwarves are afraid of a lava dragon that looked smaller than Glint and had even more gimmicky skills than she had. it would completely seriously have made more sense if Primordius was the Great Destroyer, or maybe Abaddon or Dhuum. Hell even Maw would have been a better contender for the title.
That's not even starting to ask why the Stone Summit would want to summon a lava dragon straight into Sorrow's Furnace, of course. Sure, maybe they thought that they could somehow control it, maybe bind it inside that gigantic golem they were building.
...hey, wait, why is golems an asura thing when the dwarves obviously had the idea. Why were the dwarves killed off in favor of the rat puppets?
YES!! That's what I've been saying all along, they should have made charr a species alien to humans and they should not have let us play them. By letting us play them they pretty much have to make them human, and that means that their... charryness is lost.
Hmm... Ok first. Yes, games are there to let us experience... unreal things, get away from reality, let us live our fantasies etc. etc. That is all fine. But that doesn't mean that lore was not thrown away. I mean, you can say that it's a good thing that GW2 allows you to live a norn life (while logged in), and I agree on that, but you shouldn't use that as an argument as to why the lore is the same as in GW1... because it doesn't mean that.
Second, if you want to be the brave guy who travels the world and meet people and live an adventure every day, then do it. In pretty much every inhabited place on earth it's possible to earn enough money to feed yourself and then get a bus/train ticket out of there without even knowing the language. I lived like that for a number of years. Even though you get to see cool stuff, you also come to a point where you start to think that having a home is a really nice thing.
Edited by raspberry jam, 19 December 2012 - 05:15 PM.