133 replies to this topic

[Arewn]

Protoss, on 11 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

The problem with DEs is that they are not on-demand. A bunch of hardcore players can get together to start a team and then do an explorable dungeon whenever they choose to.
Casual players are completely dependant on the randomness of DEs to provide them with content. And if they miss the DEs (since DEs can and will happen when you are not around), that means they are stuck in an empty game. And trust me, the game is appallingly boring if you luck out of DEs.
And now combine this bullshit of design with the system of waypoint fees and you have a shitty-ass piece of crap on your hands.

I am sorry, between 8 explorable dungeons (each with multiple paths) and 9 fraks, casuals need A.Net's attention more.

How are the 8 story modes and 9 fractals NOT for casuals...? They're easy and quick to do and only require a small group.

Edit: Though I agree I don't really want to see raids. Maybe change up the outdoor boss events (Shatterer +etc.) to be more appealing to organized groups, but I wouldn't want to see them to use development resources on raids.

Edited by Arewn, 11 December 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[MazingerZ]

Arewn, on 11 December 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

How are the 8 story modes and 9 fractals NOT for casuals...? They're easy and quick to do and only require a small group.

Edit: Though I agree I don't really want to see raids. Maybe change up the outdoor boss events (Shatterer +etc.) to be more appealing to organized groups, but I wouldn't want to see them to use development resources on raids.

LFG.  I spend more time spamming it than I do actually running things these days.

[lmaonade]

Asudementio, on 11 December 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

Coordination on that scale is certainly possible you just need incentive. I am in favor of raids in GW2 which focus on multiple groups of players in a single instance tackling multiple objectives and coordinating with one another to progress. Rewards such as Guild trophies and unique weapons/armor would be cool.

I like that idea, new weapon and armor skins would be mandatory for this sort of thing of course, but guild trophies would be very nice!

...but of course for that to reach it's max potential there would have to be a GUILD HALL first.

Also, would not mind if new "raid modes" were added to existing dungeons, allows more than a full party to join and has a new set of writing for an epic conclusion type deal to the backstory of the dungeon

Edited by lmaonade, 11 December 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Corvindi]

I don't think the game needs it, but I think it will happen.  Maybe they'll call them 'guild events' instead of raids.  I hope I'm wrong, though.  No way will they set up raids without having the best gear tied to it.  Otherwise very few people would bother with them.

[Arewn]

MazingerZ, on 11 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

LFG.  I spend more time spamming it than I do actually running things these days.

I find that surprising, me and my level 47 ele friend took about 10 mins to make a group with randoms for Fractals lvl 2(remember we're talking casual content right now) a few days ago.
Don't think I've ever spent more then 15 or so minutes making a group for dungeons.
Do you JUST lfg? or do you ever try making the group yourself? I find it goes faster to LFM and find people then to sit and wait for a group to take you.

[StormDragonZ]

Protoss, on 11 December 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

What the game needs now is casual, on demand content not more of this hardcore crap. Preferably something that scales and doesn't demand a group with a set number of people - meaning that people could solo it, do it in pairs or go at it as a 5 man party.

What this game needs now is getting more people to start playing. More content? You'd think you had plenty to do already in GW2 by now, but apparently it's not quite enough, now is it?

[Arquenya]

Organizing 25 man raids is just .. horrible. I hope we'll never get it.
5-8 players is the max number that can be loosely organized.

[Dasryn]

Arquenya, on 12 December 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Organizing 25 man raids is just .. horrible. I hope we'll never get it.
5-8 players is the max number that can be loosely organized.

i was thinking the standard 5 for dungeons, then larger content, 8-15 maybe?  i know its hard, but its amazing to see once everything comes together.  lotro and wow are the only two games ive come across that have in game chat services.  VOIP services go a long way in getting organization coordinated.

[elmprotector]

Fanatic, on 11 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

So my question is do you think it work with raids in GW2?

I myself would love to have some raids to do something that needs 15+ coordinated friends to beat and i have never understood why so many on are against it. If we would get raids in GW2 that dose not mean we will get vertical progression. why would we need that? They could make it so you could get cool looking armor sets from those raids and the prestige of killing that hard boss all in the name of fun. The best thing about such a raid system would be that there wont be any raids that go obsolete  because there is no vertical progression.

So what do you think? would it be good/bad with raids give us your thoughts on this topic and if you hate raids so much please do tell why.

Fanatic out see you in Tyria.

Go watch and read the interviews with the devs before launch.   They flat out said no raids.  Why do wowies have to try and turn every game into a 35 man raid gear grind?

GW2 is not about that.  If you want that there are many good games to do it in.  And really Rift is a better game then WOW so go play that for 25  man raids and let us who actually spent the time to find out what the game was suppose to be from the devs play this game thanks.

[Trei]

Would you walk into MacDonald's and ask for a BK Whopper?

[Dasryn]

guys, lets stop calling them "raids" per se and lets look at the deeper meaning here:

the OP doesnt want raids in the traditional sense, he wants large scale instanced pve content that a guild can coordinate and attempt.

and dont say we have large scale instanced pve content, its called, "Dynamic Events" - NO - this is not instanced and because of the random nature of DEs, a guild cannot coordinate and plan around one, let alone the fact that at most, they last around 15 minutes.

and yes this was an issue pre launch, i remember back in july people were asking what content there was for a large guild to do cooperatively and the ONLY answer PRE LAUNCH, was: WvW.

idk why there is even a disagreement with this notion, but this is a problem.  i dont want to pvp, and a lot of people are with me on this, so what is there to do in this game for say, a 100 member guild?

there is nothing that they can coordinate and plan around to run as a guild together.  this is a problem.

Edited by Rickter, 12 December 2012 - 03:21 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

We don't need for sure 10-15 zergs on a dungeon pretending to play a content and acting as pro, just carried buttonspamming, except when finally the group leader tells" K stop, we have to coordinate here, i'll tell everyone of you where to go and what to do"
Until trinity was part of the mmo clone of the day, if you was a healer for example, you had to heal, no buttonspam carrried, people was able to see you're just an useless bag and kick you out. GW2 is the opposite. Wrong game for it.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 12 December 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 12 December 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

We don't need for sure 10-15 zergs on a dungeon pretending to play a content and acting as pro, just carried buttonspamming, except when finally the group leader tells" K stop, we have to coordinate here, i'll tell everyone of you where to go and what to do"
Until trinity was part of the mmo clone of the day, if you was a healer for example, you had to heal, no buttonspam carrried, people was able to see you're just an useless bag and kick you out. GW2 is the opposite. Wrong game for it.

well this isnt the Trinity thread so i wasnt really referring to that, i was basically advocating the addition of instance pve content that guilds could participate in.  because let's be honest, aside from WvW, there is nothing for large scale guilds to do together.

its not pretend pros, its just, something for a lot of guildies to cooperatively participate in.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Was mostly a direct answer to the OP and raids in gw2. Ye agree, except some wvw zerg pretending to do something special with your guild, (if your server is trash not giving a damn of wvw except for the monthly, remains trash, no matter how much one single guild effort is spent). Definitively something relating brain , large cooperation ( no dragons aren't they are just a bigger zerg), and bond with your guild is something we don't have at all on this game, and i doubt we will have until maybe a future (far future) update pack.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 12 December 2012 - 03:46 AM.

[Soki]

I want there to be such content.
But knowing ArenaNet, they'd make the content drop by having bosses drop a piece of shrapnel 1% of the time; then have you put in gifts of metal or whatever into the mystic forge with it to get the raid-relevent equipment.

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 12 December 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Was mostly a direct answer to the OP and raids in gw2. Ye agree, except some wvw zerg pretending to do something special with your guild, (if your server is trash not giving a damn of wvw except for the monthly, remains trash, no matter how much one single guild effort is spent). Definitively something relating brain , large cooperation ( no dragons aren't they are just a bigger zerg), and bond with your guild is something we don't have at all on this game, and i doubt we will have until maybe a future (far future) update pack.

even though i love GW2, id have to agree, there is no point in having a large scale guild in this game unless you are a big WvWorlder.

then they made guilds so easy to make so everyone and there mother's sister's daughter has one. . . . but thats another topic. . .

Soki, on 12 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

I want there to be such content.
But knowing ArenaNet, they'd make the content drop by having bosses drop a piece of shrapnel 1% of the time; then have you put in gifts of metal or whatever into the mystic forge with it to get the raid-relevent equipment.

i think we would all like this kind of content, it will make guilds relevant.

bring on the "large scale instanced pve content" (cuz we want to avoid that "raid" word). . . .

Edited by Rickter, 12 December 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[Soki]

Rickter, on 12 December 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

even though i love GW2, id have to agree, there is no point in having a large scale guild in this game unless you are a big WvWorlder.

then they made guilds so easy to make so everyone and there mother's sister's daughter has one. . . . but thats another topic. . .



i think we would all like this kind of content, it will make guilds relevant.

bring on the "large scale instanced pve content" (cuz we want to avoid that "raid" word). . . .

Missing the point--
If ArenaNet made raids, the bosses would drop something 1% of the time - and that something would be something you throw in the mystic forge alongside 3 other things that you have to grindgrindgrind for.
ArenaNet=Grind.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Ye i guess Soki was pointing on raids and loot, raid geargrinding it etc

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 12 December 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Dasryn]

Soki, on 12 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Missing the point--
If ArenaNet made raids, the bosses would drop something 1% of the time - and that something would be something you throw in the mystic forge alongside 3 other things that you have to grindgrindgrind for.
ArenaNet=Grind.

yeah i think its the nature of F2P games (i know GW2 was B2P but for all intents and purposes it follows the F2P model after box purchase), plus i think NCSoft kinda had a say in that but who knows at this point.

[Trei]

Rickter, on 12 December 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

well this isnt the Trinity thread so i wasnt really referring to that, i was basically advocating the addition of instance pve content that guilds could participate in.  because let's be honest, aside from WvW, there is nothing for large scale guilds to do together.

its not pretend pros, its just, something for a lot of guildies to cooperatively participate in.

What kind of rewards would you suggest for such content?

It has to be attractive enough to make the effort of organizing a raid seem worthwhile.

It cannot be so great or unique a reward that players, whose real life schedule prevent them from regularly participating in any meaningful way, would feel cut off from important content.

Raid type content are not content one can just put in as an afterthought.
A large group requirement serves as a huge barrier to access for the majority of the playerbase, meaning that only a very small percentage get to ever experience the content.

If it is to be quality content, large amount of resources have to be spent, for only this small percentage of players.

It doesn't make any economic sense.

I do not support exclusionary content.

Edited by Trei, 12 December 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Soki]

Rickter, on 12 December 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

yeah i think its the nature of F2P games (i know GW2 was B2P but for all intents and purposes it follows the F2P model after box purchase), plus i think NCSoft kinda had a say in that but who knows at this point.

What a counterintuitive business method~

[Dasryn]

Trei, on 12 December 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

Such content is
What kind of rewards would you suggest for such content?

It has to be attractive enough to make the effort of organizing a raid seem worthwhile.

It cannot be so great or unique a reward that players, whose real life schedule prevent them from regularly participating in any meaningful way, would feel cut off from important content.

Raid type content are not content one can just put in as an afterthought.
A large group requirement serves as a huge barrier to access for the majority of the playerbase, meaning that only a very small percentage get to ever experience the content.

If it is to be quality content, large amount of resources have to be spent, for only this small percentage of players.

It doesn't make any economic sense.

I do not support exclusionary content.

i would imagine rewards would be like the current 8 dungeons, basically same stat cosmetic armors.

and i dont see how it would be anymore exclusionary than the Fractals. . .

Soki, on 12 December 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

What a counterintuitive business method~

thats what she said. ..

[Arewn]

Rickter, on 12 December 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

i was thinking the standard 5 for dungeons, then larger content, 8-15 maybe?  i know its hard, but its amazing to see once everything comes together.  lotro and wow are the only two games ive come across that have in game chat services.  VOIP services go a long way in getting organization coordinated.

Was the VOIP in WoW ever usable O.o?
Serious question, I remember trying it a few times and it was always awful, and I've never run into anyone who used it.

And to your later post: what, if any, MMORPG has something to engage a 100 member guild? WoW certainly does not.
Generally large guild events have to be community organized and don't partake directly in structured content presented by the game itself.

But I get what you mean, as you said, something a larger group of player can reliably go do together on a schedule.

I definitely would not want WoW style raids though, they're easy to the point of face-roll, the most challenging part about them is getting 10(or 25) people to simultaneously not screw up their choreography for 10 mins straight.

[Dasryn]

Arewn, on 12 December 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Was the VOIP in WoW ever usable O.o?
Serious question, I remember trying it a few times and it was always awful, and I've never run into anyone who used it.

And to your later post: what, if any, MMORPG has something to engage a 100 member guild? WoW certainly does not.
Generally large guild events have to be community organized and don't partake directly in structured content presented by the game itself.

But I get what you mean, as you said, something a larger group of player can reliably go do together on a schedule.

I definitely would not want WoW style raids though, they're easy to the point of face-roll, the most challenging part about them is getting 10(or 25) people to simultaneously not screw up their choreography for 10 mins straight.

i was never put in a situation where the WoW VOIP service was needed, i just knew it had it in there, Lotro on the other hand, worked fine, better than XFire probably.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Quick question: what is the VOIP ducking volume bar we have?
Seems (mumbles works on it) VOIP was intented to be part of the game.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 12 December 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[Trei]

Rickter, on 12 December 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

i would imagine rewards would be like the current 8 dungeons, basically same stat cosmetic armors.

and i dont see how it would be anymore exclusionary than the Fractals. . .

I just need to grab four friends for fractals.
In time, we'll improve to get higher in the dungeon, if we so choose to.

I don't expect all of them to be able to make it every night, every week. I can pug to make up for the last one or two for the party.

If I don't have 14 or 19 friends, or if I can never commit regularly to a guild schedule for such large scale instances, how would you suggest I experience such content? YouTube?

Or would you like raids with puggable challenges?

Currently, all content in the game is accessible to me, with time and effort, in my own time, my own schedule.

Can you say the same for future large scale content?

Edited by Trei, 12 December 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[biofrog]

Absolute no.

[MazingerZ]

Arewn, on 11 December 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

I find that surprising, me and my level 47 ele friend took about 10 mins to make a group with randoms for Fractals lvl 2(remember we're talking casual content right now) a few days ago.
Don't think I've ever spent more then 15 or so minutes making a group for dungeons.
Do you JUST lfg? or do you ever try making the group yourself? I find it goes faster to LFM and find people then to sit and wait for a group to take you.

You're speaking of FOTM.  I'm at FOTM level 2.  Bored to tears.  There is no story.  It is random crap.

No, I speak of the REST of the dungeon game.

No one is playing it.

[Craywulf]

Accessibility trumps quantity, enough said.

[Rhydian]

Might as well, they already introduced gear grind, ignored pvp, all that wil be left soon is dedicated loot grinders, just throw that 5 man balance nonsense out the window and introduce ten man content and get it over with, pvp is dead.