370 replies to this topic

[Fizzypop]

I still don't even get why they were included. The WvWvW maps aren't even part of the actual world. That's like saying in order to see all of earth you have to see it from space or go to the moon. Makes zero sense. If they wanted you to see ALL of the world then they'd have to open up a whole lot more areas and also include POIs in instances. >.> so obviously that isn't the idea behind the map completion. Furthermore, they made it a requirement for legendaries. Awesomesauce.

[FreeBooteR]

Yes people who hate pvp should join wvwvw, cause all sorts of waiting time for people who really would rather be there, then take as much supply as possible and spread it around where it probably isn't needed. Awesome, new goals!

[Leokadia]

Daesu, on 12 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

That would go a lot more well with their player base than saying you have to do BOTH PvP AND PvE, with no other options.

Neither you nor I are qualified to speak for "their player base."  Fact.  We only speak for ourselves.  Which is perfectly valid.  Presuming we speak for multitudes is not.

[Daesu]

Leokadia, on 12 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Neither you nor I are qualified to speak for "their player base."  Fact.  We only speak for ourselves.  Which is perfectly valid.  Presuming we speak for multitudes is not.

All I am saying is providing MORE options would go better with their playerbase as oppose to FEWER options.

Right now, you have to do BOTH PvE+PVP.  What would have been better is to provide an option to gain the title in PvE, PvP, or either.  Since the latter option is a superset of the former, then logically it should satisfy more people.

Edited by Daesu, 12 December 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[Strawberry Nubcake]

Gerroh, on 12 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

This.
This is the most hilarious sentence in the entire thread.
Have you ever gone to WvW, Strawberry? Have you never NOT been with the mob? This post you've made just screams "I have never seen WvW ever in my life ever!"

I actually do WvW a lot and I'm rarely with the zerg unless I'm on a lowbie doing exploration.  The extra cushion is nice when you have limited utilities and traits to work with.  

I'm not trying to say looking at the map and reading chat is a 100% sure way to avoid an encounter, but it definitely helps.  You don't agree that going for a vista in an area with swords is stupid if someone is trying to avoid a fight?  There will usually be small groups of people roaming around to cap stuff, but sometimes they travel around in a pattern and it's pretty easy to figure out where they will go next.  That's the sort of stuff the OP or anyone else trying to minimize their chances of fighting would look for.  Also, I'm not sure why anyone would head to an area to explore if someone said there were invaders hanging out near there.  That seems dumb unless they want to fight... even dumber if they are alone.  "Hmm!  The last skill point I need is up there and someone in chat said there are 5-7 invaders near there.  I'm alone, but I guess I'll run head first into it since it's the only thing between me and 100% world completion!"  

[Daesu]

Strawberry Nubcake, on 12 December 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

I'm not trying to say looking at the map and reading chat is a 100% sure way to avoid an encounter, but it definitely helps.  You don't agree that going for a vista in an area with swords is stupid if someone is trying to avoid a fight?  There will usually be small groups of people roaming around to cap stuff, but sometimes they travel around in a pattern and it's pretty easy to figure out where they will go next.  That's the sort of stuff the OP or anyone else trying to minimize their chances of fighting would look for.  Also, I'm not sure why anyone would head to an area to explore if someone said there were invaders hanging out near there.  That seems dumb unless they want to fight... even dumber if they are alone.  "Hmm!  The last skill point I need is up there and someone in chat said there are 5-7 invaders near there.  I'm alone, but I guess I'll run head first into it since it's the only thing between me and 100% world completion!"  

True and to answer your question, I do look at the map and the chat but I am usually the first to spot the enemy.  Maybe I am just unlucky and once they spot me, they chase me relentlessly, "oh look!  Looks like a PvEer, easy kill!  Free loot and badge of honor!"

Edited by Daesu, 12 December 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[Gerroh]

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

I would think a completionist would want to play the complete game and not flat out refuse to play a part of it.
God forbid you start falling down the slippery slope of actually playing the game, that would clearly fall right into Anet's plans of making you play the game! Treachery!!!

That's not what it's about at all, you are completely missing the point.
Some people want to experience all of Guild Wars' crap. I'd put myself in that category.
Some people just want to do spvp.
Some just want to do pve.
Some just wvw.
Some a mix of two of those.

OP fits into the "just pve" category and there are many others who are the same. Part of that pve includes world completion. You can say it's not exclusively pve, or you can say wvw is pve, but when it comes right down to it, it's still causing the problem of putting players who don't want to be where they have to go, and at the same time those players are a drag on the people who do want to be there.
As I said before, it's a shit sandwich for everyone.

It's like putting a homeless shelter in the middle of a gated community. Neither party wants it, neither party benefits from it.

Edited by Gerroh, 12 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Craywulf]

Stop being a chickenshit. If the reward means that much to you...then you will find a way to meet the challenge like everyone else.

[Hybarf Tics]

Me I did the whole thing during Holloween on the broom with the which with my armor completely off my character just so those PVP'ers don't damage it. Whenever I got cought I would remain still giving them no sport challenge. A lame kill for a lame PVP time.

[FreeBooteR]

Hybarf Tics, on 12 December 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Me I did the whole thing during Holloween on the broom with the which with my armor completely off my character just so those PVP'ers don't damage it. Whenever I got cought I would remain still giving them no sport challenge. A lame kill for a lame PVP time.

Why give them an easy badge? Jump off a cliff, deny them their reward.

[Khrushchev]

Gerroh, on 12 December 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

That's not what it's about at all, you are completely missing the point.
Some people want to experience all of Guild Wars' crap. I'd put myself in that category.
Some people just want to do spvp.
Some just want to do pve.
Some just wvw.
Some a mix of two of those.

OP fits into the "just pve" category and there are many others who are the same. Part of that pve includes world completion. You can say it's not exclusively pve, or you can say wvw is pve, but when it comes right down to it, it's still causing the problem of putting players who don't want to be where they have to go, and at the same time those players are a drag on the people who do want to be there.
As I said before, it's a shit sandwich for everyone.

It's like putting a homeless shelter in the middle of a gated community. Neither party wants it, neither party benefits from it.

You're also completely missing the point though, that world completion is for completing the world, it's not a PvE title, it's a world title, all encompassing, every last corner of Tyria.

[AKGeo]

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

You're also completely missing the point though, that world completion is for completing the world, it's not a PvE title, it's a world title, all encompassing, every last corner of Tyria.

Except spvp and dungeons.


Just getting to it before the entitled whiners do.

[Daesu]

Hybarf Tics, on 12 December 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Me I did the whole thing during Holloween on the broom with the which with my armor completely off my character just so those PVP'ers don't damage it. Whenever I got cought I would remain still giving them no sport challenge. A lame kill for a lame PVP time.

That's what I did too.  Then I put on my armor and tried ALT-F4 for fast quit of the GW2 client and it works too if your reflexes are fast enough, your armor wont be damaged.

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

You're also completely missing the point though, that world completion is for completing the world, it's not a PvE title, it's a world title, all encompassing, every last corner of Tyria.

That is still debatable.  I think it is a PvE title more than a PvP title, since most of it requires you to complete heart quests and most of the objects are in the PvE areas.

Edited by Daesu, 12 December 2012 - 11:19 PM.

[MisterB]

Daesu, on 12 December 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

That's what I did too.  Then I put on my armor and tried ALT-F4 for fast quit of the GW2 client and it works too if your reflexes are fast enough, your armor wont be damaged.

Don't get too used to that tactic. ANet intends to implement instant player defeat upon disconnect or closing the client while in combat in WvW.

Quote

Alt+F4 is no escape
If someone that you’re fighting disconnects during combat (via Alt+F4, killing the client process, etc.) their character will be instantly killed, death penalties will be applied, and XP & loot will be handed out as usual.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post965551

[Daesu]

MisterB, on 12 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post965551

When that happens then I would have to give up on WvW altogether or go naked.  World completion is not worth it and doesn't justify the repair costs at level 80.

Edited by Daesu, 12 December 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[Khrushchev]

Daesu, on 12 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

When that happens then I would have to give up on WvW altogether.  World completion is not worth it and doesn't justify the repair costs at level 80.

Go naked, you aren't doing any fighting anwyays, you refuse to. Logging out takes longer than dying with no armor on anyways.

[Daesu]

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Go naked, you aren't doing any fighting anwyays, you refuse to. Logging out takes longer than dying with no armor on anyways.

yeah perhaps I should do that.

Edited by Daesu, 12 December 2012 - 11:39 PM.

[Astral Projections]

Daesu, on 12 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

When that happens then I would have to give up on WvW altogether or go naked.  World completion is not worth it and doesn't justify the repair costs at level 80.

Maybe either no armor or cheap white armor that you salvage later? Another possibility is to do it late at night or real early in the morning when few people are on.

[Daesu]

Astral Projections, on 12 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Maybe either no armor or cheap white armor that you salvage later? Another possibility is to do it late at night or real early in the morning when few people are on.

Good tip I'll try that.

[Hybarf Tics]

FreeBooteR, on 12 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Why give them an easy badge? Jump off a cliff, deny them their reward.

Lol I also did that twice, great minds think alike.

[Gerroh]

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

You're also completely missing the point though, that world completion is for completing the world, it's not a PvE title, it's a world title, all encompassing, every last corner of Tyria.

No, I'm not missing the point because the issue isn't about whether or not WvW counts as part of the world(I'd argue it doesn't, as from a lore standpoint it takes place in the mists and not the physical world itself, which you seem to agree with and thus contradict yourself without realising it).
The issue is the problems it causes for players.
We are not talking about technicalities like "Well it says 'world completion', duh". We are talking about the negative effects on the game itself that putting world completion into WvW has.

FreeBooteR, on 12 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Why give them an easy badge? Jump off a cliff, deny them their reward.

Hybarf Tics, on 12 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Lol I also did that twice, great minds think alike.

It doesn't deny them a badge. If they tag you and you jump off a cliff, they just get their rewards even easier. the only difference is that you don't break your armor.

Edited by Gerroh, 13 December 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[Dasryn]

i havent participated in much WvW, i more or less kinda gave it a try, and honestly, WvW felt like to me, ANet's way of providing the traditional mmorpg's version of a pvp server.

basically, there is all this pve content in it, but you can kill player characters on sight.  so WvW being fully pvp is not entirely accurate.  just think of it like a pvp server.

[Millimidget]

You'll need to do it slowly over several matches, as your team is seeded a different color based on their performance the previous week. First place is green, second place is blue, third place is red.

You don't actually have to participate in order to get the achievement.

Rickter, on 13 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

i havent participated in much WvW, i more or less kinda gave it a try, and honestly, WvW felt like to me, ANet's way of providing the traditional mmorpg's version of a pvp server.

basically, there is all this pve content in it, but you can kill player characters on sight.  so WvW being fully pvp is not entirely accurate.  just think of it like a pvp server.

It's not at all like a PvP server. There are a handful of events, most associated with some sort of PvP objective (ie dredge/hyleks/ogres send out supply camp raiding parties/defenders on behalf of whichever side controls them).

But it does recall the glory of DAoC's RvR, certainly more effectively than WAR did.

Edited by Millimidget, 13 December 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[Craywulf]

Rickter, on 13 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

basically, there is all this pve content in it, but you can kill player characters on sight.  so WvW being fully pvp is not entirely accurate.  just think of it like a pvp server.

Pretty much their intent, and the reason why ArenaNet likes to refer to it "casual pvp", despite the fact that it can at times be really cutthroat.

[Dasryn]

Craywulf, on 13 December 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Pretty much their intent, and the reason why ArenaNet likes to refer to it "casual pvp", despite the fact that it can at times be really cutthroat.

so there shouldnt be a problem right?  i suggest people make some friends and roll around in a pack.

[Gremlin]

Take a great big axe and cleave these two halves of the game in twain because players will never agree and never be happy.

Or take all the achievements titles and so on that are mainly say 80% in pve and make them 100% achievable in pve.

Then take all those mainly achievable in pvp to the same extent and make those 100% pvp achievable.

Anything that depends more or less equally with success in pvp and pve should remain as it is and for those you have to take part in both activities.

I would claim that exploration is a mostly pve achievement for it is in pve that you need to explore the world to discover your own storyline answers and those needed to solve the problem of destroying the dragons.

In PVP terrain is largely irrelevant even in wvw its function is mainly tactical and rarely do you need to explore all areas of the map to win.

There are some portions of the game that you always have access to and others that depend very much on the server you are on and the support of other players doing what you want to achieve what you need to do, such as exploring areas of the pvp maps.

I would submit that it would be better for pvp as there would be no reason for players to enter the pvp parts of the game with no intention of helping their teams.
Surely in wvw you want everyone on your side actually trying to win rather than fulfilling some selfish objective then leaving.

[Millimidget]

Craywulf, on 13 December 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Pretty much their intent, and the reason why ArenaNet likes to refer to it "casual pvp", despite the fact that it can at times be really cutthroat.

Reference? I always understood it to be their hallmark endgame content, but when it flopped under the weight of culling, poorly scheduled matches, a poor victory system and an even poorer reward system, they hastily rolled out Ascended gear and shifted the game towards a PvE focus.

[Tyrantscreed]

Khrushchev, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

You're also completely missing the point though, that world completion is for completing the world, it's not a PvE title, it's a world title, all encompassing, every last corner of Tyria.

AKGeo, on 12 December 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Except spvp and dungeons.
Just getting to it before the entitled whiners do.

^ This...completion of the world, not just PvE activities. Although I do understand your pain...best way to do it is follow the zerg! It might take a longer time to get 100% world completion, but at least you'll be able to tag PoIs, Vistas you need safely.

[Trei]

Daesu, on 12 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

If I re-gear myself for WvW and start fighting then, wait...... I will be PvPing and ArenaNet scheme to force PvP on us would have succeeded...  Not going to happen.  

As a matter of principle, why should I be forced to play the game in the way that I dislike?  Why should PvEers be FORCED into PvP?

So... is someone from Anet pointing a gun on your head saying you must do world map completion?

I do not agree it should be regarded as a PvE-only activity.

Or could I also complain that I am forced to run a dungeon I hate because the skin I want most is found only there?

Of course there is also the issue of the current reward, which is tuned accordingly with such perceived difficulty in wvw maps in mind, intended to reward the all round player who completes it.

Edited by Trei, 13 December 2012 - 02:48 AM.

[Gremlin]

Trei, on 13 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

So... is someone from Anet pointing a gun on your head saying you must do world map completion?

I do not agree it should be regarded as a PvE-only activity.

Or could I also complain that I am forced to run a dungeon I hate because the skin I want most is found only there?

The objection is to being forced into pvp is both obvious and sensible for both sides.

Yes I do intend to eventually do pvp  however for now I have one reason to enter wvw and that is to tame a Wolf, this is the only part of the game where they can be obtained.
Suppose you are in wvw trying to beat another server and half the players on your side are off busy exploring maps capping wolves and dying rather than forming part of a cohesive group trying to actually win, wouldnt you find that annoying.
If you take away the need for players to enter wvw for other than actually playing wvw its unlikely to happen

Dungeons and WVW in gw2 are very dependant on having the current favoured class and build in the first case and happening to be on a server with good players actively playing wvw in the second.

Both those cases are a sad reflection on anet for allowing them to happen.
WVW based on server vs server is flawed and will need to change or will die off and take a good number of players with it.
Dungeons too will need some changes as they are badly organised.

The rest of the game is fine as all players have equal access to it.