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Mike Lewis on the War Against the Bots


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#31 Featherman

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

I'm actually in disbelief that people are supporting these bots. I've been making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals or doing some light farming with MF gear, and this was more than enough to offset the inflation of the initial wave of banning. Now that thee bots are back my profits have been severely cut due to oversupply. The though of deflation might be nice for those that already have a good sum of money and need t6 materials but in the long run these bots will do the economy no good, especially when they have the power to monopolize any material they can farm.

#32 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 13 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm actually in disbelief that people are supporting these bots. I've been making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals or doing some light farming with MF gear, and this was more than enough to offset the inflation of the initial wave of banning. Now that thee bots are back my profits have been severely cut due to oversupply. The though of deflation might be nice for those that already have a good sum of money and need t6 materials but in the long run these bots will do the economy no good, especially when they have the power to monopolize any material they can farm.

I can guarantee you, you are not making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals. I am not, you aren't - nobody is. If you really think so - make sure to fraps your next fractal run and pray to whatever god/s you believe in that you'll get a Charged Lodestone dropped ;)

The only steady supply of T6 mats in this game (and I don't mean your 1-3 ones per 4 fracs - those aren't even a drop in the ocean) are coming from three sources exclusively:

A ) Bots - the VAST majority of the supply.
B ) Farming players
C ) Levelling players who happen to get x dropped and don't hold onto it and sell it.

Now, there are two choices for me - either support A or become B. I don't like to farm in a circle (I did it, for 1 hour today. Farmed Frostgorge, got a  proper 3 Corrupted Lodestones and some T5-6 materials. So I know HOW it's done) and hit upon creeps over and over with silly MF gear in order to make money.

I rather do the things that I enjoy in Guild Wars 2 (Fractals, Dungeons, WvW) and gather my gold through those means - at the end of the day, I'll walk up to the Trading Post and see what the gold I earned that way, buys me.

With bots in the game, it buys me exactly the stuff I want at the cheapest possible price ergo the least artificial delays.

Without bots it buys me far less, takes me exceedingly longer to finish whatever and quite possibly make me quit in the long-run because I simply can't be arsed.

So yeah, if those are my options - I'll take bots grinding over ME grinding - 7 days out of the week.

Edited by Illein, 13 December 2012 - 02:45 PM.


#33 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I can guarantee you, you are not making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals. I am not, you aren't - nobody is. If you really think so - make sure to fraps your next fractal run and pray to whatever god/s you believe in that you'll get a Charged Lodestone dropped ;)


Actually it is far from impossible to get 2-4 gold per hour in Fractals.
The stuff that drops in there can get you quite a bit of gold/ectos/whatever.

#34 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 13 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Actually it is far from impossible to get 2-4 gold per hour in Fractals.
The stuff that drops in there can get you quite a bit of gold/ectos/whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It CAN.

That's a bit like saying the Mystic Forge is a great source of income because it CAN spit out a precurser ;)

#35 Featherman

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I can guarantee you, you are not making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals. I am not, you aren't - nobody is. If you really think so - make sure to fraps your next fractal run and pray to whatever god/s you believe in that you'll get a Charged Lodestone dropped ;)

Run even levels of fractals on 20+ with a good party. Boss chests almost always give rares, with a decent chance at random cores of lodestones. The bonus boss chest drops often drops 2 cores or lodestones. This isn't counting bags or t6 mats that drop off of regular mods. I've often made about a gold from the aquatic ruins fractals because of armored scale drops.

With bots around, doing the things you enjoy will not be profitable at all. You will absolutely need to farm for gold in order to afford luxury items.

#36 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 13 December 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Run even levels of fractals on 20+ with a good party. Boss chests almost always give rares, with a decent chance at random cores of lodestones. The bonus boss chest drops often drops 2 cores or lodestones. This isn't counting bags or t6 mats that drop off of regular mods. I've often made about a gold from the aquatic ruins fractals because of armored scale drops.

With bots around, doing the things you enjoy will not be profitable at all. You will absolutely need to farm for gold in order to afford luxury items.

Ran plenty of L20+ fractals and there have been too many runs I haven't received a single rare than I care to remember. The Boss Chest sometimes gives cores, rarely Lodestones but you know what they sure give a lot? Putrid Essences - 4s a pop! Woohoo. ;)

It all comes down to luck. When I am lucky I am getting 2 Armored Scales in the aquatic one - apparently you're just way more blessed than I. ;)

Your second paragraph doesn't really make sense though. I like to do dungeons, they give me ectos and gold usually. How do bots farming T6 mats (and that's pretty much exclusively what I have seen them doing so far) affect me? Curious for the answer.

It affects me positively - as my gold effectively becomes more valuable as they sell mats cheaper than they would otherwise would be, but that's about it.

Edited by Illein, 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.


#37 Featherman

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:21 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Ran plenty of L20+ fractals and there have been too many runs I haven't received a single rare than I care to remember. The Boss Chest sometimes gives cores, rarely Lodestones but you know what they sure give a lot? Putrid Essences - 4s a pop! Woohoo. ;)

It all comes down to luck. When I am lucky I am getting 2 Armored Scales in the aquatic one - apparently you're just way more blessed than I. ;)

Your second paragraph doesn't really make sense though. I like to do dungeons, they give me ectos and gold usually. How do bots farming T6 mats (and that's pretty much exclusively what I have seen them doing so far) affect me? Curious for the answer.

It affects me positively - as my gold effectively becomes more valuable as they sell mats cheaper than they would otherwise would be, but that's about it.
You're very unlucky then. I found 6 rares from doing my level 20 dailies earlier. 7 the day before. I also found 3 exotics but those couldn't be sold.

Except maybe for AC with a good party, dungeons take far too long to be profitable for the amount of time you're required to spend in them, especially when their farming deflates ecto prices. When they deflate the prices materials, it means the mats you collect are also worth less. You can't make as much money selling off surplus and rares mats you'd collect as you play. They would only benefit you if you already have a large sum of gold, and that's only in the short term.

#38 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 13 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

You're very unlucky then. I found 6 rares from doing my level 20 dailies earlier. 7 the day before. I also found 3 exotics but those couldn't be sold.

Except maybe for AC with a good party, dungeons take far too long to be profitable for the amount of time you're required to spend in them, especially when their farming deflates ecto prices. When they deflate the prices materials, it means the mats you collect are also worth less. You can't make as much money selling off surplus and rares mats you'd collect as you play. They would only benefit you if you already have a large sum of gold, and that's only in the short term.

You aren't one of those pricks running MF gear, are you? :D

And the latter sadly made no sense - the whole point of me running dungeons is that they are FUN and they are a constant stream of income that is entertaining to ME. I barely sell anything out of those dungeons on the Trading Post as I need more than enough ectos myself still for Legendary + Ascended gear.

So the only thing I get from them really, is gold. And gold doesn't get devalued by bots in their current incarnation at least. Quite the contrary.

#39 Trei

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

...Your second paragraph doesn't really make sense though. I like to do dungeons, they give me ectos and gold usually. How do bots farming T6 mats (and that's pretty much exclusively what I have seen them doing so far) affect me? Curious for the answer....
Why do players want to use bots to farm for T6 mats? Probably to sell for gold.
Why do they want gold? To buy items that require gold.

Let's assume they are doing exceeding well and their masters would soon be swimming in gold.
They can now buy anything they want at any price.
Maybe they want to buy your ectos.
You can now price your ectos higher and higher since they are able to afford it.

But what do you want to buy with your gold?

Say maybe you want an ultra rare named exotic. But the bot users could want it too.
Are you likely to have as much gold as the bot users?
They can pay similarly crazy prices for it as they did for your ectos.
Can you?
Would you?

Edited by Trei, 13 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.


#40 metalsazz

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I can guarantee you, you are not making 2-4 gold per hour in fractals. I am not, you aren't - nobody is. If you really think so - make sure to fraps your next fractal run and pray to whatever god/s you believe in that you'll get a Charged Lodestone dropped ;)

The only steady supply of T6 mats in this game (and I don't mean your 1-3 ones per 4 fracs - those aren't even a drop in the ocean) are coming from three sources exclusively:

A ) Bots - the VAST majority of the supply.
B ) Farming players
C ) Levelling players who happen to get x dropped and don't hold onto it and sell it.

Now, there are two choices for me - either support A or become B. I don't like to farm in a circle (I did it, for 1 hour today. Farmed Frostgorge, got a  proper 3 Corrupted Lodestones and some T5-6 materials. So I know HOW it's done) and hit upon creeps over and over with silly MF gear in order to make money.

I rather do the things that I enjoy in Guild Wars 2 (Fractals, Dungeons, WvW) and gather my gold through those means - at the end of the day, I'll walk up to the Trading Post and see what the gold I earned that way, buys me.

With bots in the game, it buys me exactly the stuff I want at the cheapest possible price ergo the least artificial delays.

Without bots it buys me far less, takes me exceedingly longer to finish whatever and quite possibly make me quit in the long-run because I simply can't be arsed.

So yeah, if those are my options - I'll take bots grinding over ME grinding - 7 days out of the week.

Nothing really forcing you get these ledendaries, so nothing really is forcing you to grind those areas.

#41 Piteous

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

Other then running around in wvw or farming events I rarely see any other players let alone any bots...its lonely out there in the wild.

#42 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostTrei, on 13 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Why do players want to use bots to farm for T6 mats? Probably to sell for gold.
Why do they want gold? To buy items that require gold.

Let's assume they are doing exceeding well and their masters would soon be swimming in gold.
They can now buy anything they want at any price.
Maybe they want to buy your ectos.
You can now price your ectos higher and higher since they are able to afford it.

But what do you want to buy with your gold?

Say maybe you want an ultra rare named exotic. But the bot users could want it too.
Are you likely to have as much gold as the bot users?
They can pay similarly crazy prices for it as they did for your ectos.
Can you?
Would you?

Your whole argument is based on the logical fallacy that PLAYERS use bots.

I don't know any players who use bots - but I know for a fact the way gold sellers make their money, is by using bots (or hacking accounts and THEN using bots on them - which is why some of those bots you see running around have proper names and/or guild tags/equipment etc).

The bot issue is NOT one of player using bots, trust me. Those barely even make the duck quack.

View Postmetalsazz, on 13 December 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Nothing really forcing you get these ledendaries, so nothing really is forcing you to grind those areas.

Very true - but one condition benefits me, the other doesn't. So pardon me for not reporting bots now any more - seeing how they worsen my game experience ;)

Personal choice, is all. Not expecting YOU not to report them any more.

#43 Trei

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Your whole argument is based on the logical fallacy that PLAYERS use bots.

I don't know any players who use bots - but I know for a fact the way gold sellers make their money, is by using bots (or hacking accounts and THEN using bots on them - which is why some of those bots you see running around have proper names and/or guild tags/equipment etc).

The bot issue is NOT one of player using bots, trust me. Those barely even make the duck quack.
Not really a fallacy since its just a matter of severity.
It leads to the same end result.

So gold sellers use bots.
They sell the gold they get from selling the mats to players who can afford real money to buy gold.
Due to direct competition with players legitimately selling gems for gold, the illegal gold sellers have to make their prices really really attractive to entice players to risk buying from them instead.

The players who choose these sellers are now able to get crazy amounts of gold with little real money spent.
Like in the previous example, now they want the same ultra rare named exotic you do...

Are you not affected?

#44 metalsazz

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Your whole argument is based on the logical fallacy that PLAYERS use bots.

I don't know any players who use bots - but I know for a fact the way gold sellers make their money, is by using bots (or hacking accounts and THEN using bots on them - which is why some of those bots you see running around have proper names and/or guild tags/equipment etc).

The bot issue is NOT one of player using bots, trust me. Those barely even make the duck quack.



Very true - but one condition benefits me, the other doesn't. So pardon me for not reporting bots now any more - seeing how they worsen my game experience ;)

Personal choice, is all. Not expecting YOU not to report them any more.

Still the grind is only there to effect those that want the shinies, legendaries are not required to enjoy the game. therefore people are making themselfs do the grind, not the game. So while i kinda get why you want to keep bots around, many do not because it does mo harm to those that don't want to grind.

#45 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

View PostTrei, on 13 December 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Not really a fallacy since its just a matter of severity.
It leads to the same end result.

So gold sellers use bots.
They sell the gold they get from selling the mats to players who can afford real money to buy gold.
Due to direct competition with players legitimately selling gems for gold, the illegal gold sellers have to make their prices really really attractive to entice players to risk buying from them instead.

The players who choose these sellers are now able to get crazy amounts of gold with little real money spent.
Like in the previous example, now they want the same ultra rare named exotic you do...

Are you not affected?

I go by "what is" not by "what could possibly be" - I am sure there were people out there who bought shit tons of gems through RL currencies around the world who wanted T6 mats to be done with their legendaries as soon as possible - buying them.

But guess what? There were such vast amounts of those due to botting that their 250 a pop weren't shaking the economy of T6 mats the slightest - they were pretty stable until they removed the bots AND added new ascended recipes with ridiculous amounts of T6 requirements.

So them selling gold to other players, didn't affect me. Their stream of flowing T6 mats being cut, did - severely so. Simple as that ;)

View Postmetalsazz, on 13 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Still the grind is only there to effect those that want the shinies, legendaries are not required to enjoy the game. therefore people are making themselfs do the grind, not the game. So while i kinda get why you want to keep bots around, many do not because it does mo harm to those that don't want to grind.

If you want Best-in-Slot items, you'll need to grind a shit ton as well, don't fool yourself ;) And many people WANT that, but don't care about legendaries. So it definitely affects a lot more than people chasing "shinies" - which is the MAIN end game of Guild Wars 2 still, so I'd not disregard that aspect too much either.

#46 AJS

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

You aren't one of those pricks running MF gear, are you? :D

And the latter sadly made no sense - the whole point of me running dungeons is that they are FUN and they are a constant stream of income that is entertaining to ME. I barely sell anything out of those dungeons on the Trading Post as I need more than enough ectos myself still for Legendary + Ascended gear.

So the only thing I get from them really, is gold. And gold doesn't get devalued by bots in their current incarnation at least. Quite the contrary.
i am not sure - are you a Troll?  Bots are bad for the game and we do not need them, like you said you farm dungeons for most of what you need so what is the problem, besides I like higher prices for mats so I can sell them to players like you who farm dungons for gold.

#47 Featherman

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

You aren't one of those pricks running MF gear, are you? :D

And the latter sadly made no sense - the whole point of me running dungeons is that they are FUN and they are a constant stream of income that is entertaining to ME. I barely sell anything out of those dungeons on the Trading Post as I need more than enough ectos myself still for Legendary + Ascended gear.

So the only thing I get from them really, is gold. And gold doesn't get devalued by bots in their current incarnation at least. Quite the contrary.
Only MF food, which is more than enough. Find a competent and geared party and you'll be able breeze through fractals, negating the need for MF.

I'm glad it doesn't affect you negatively, but that doesn't make it any less intrinsically detrimental for everyone else. Certain people don't like ANet's lack of understanding of challenge in their dungeon design, and would rather run fractals or farm the open world for income and enjoyment.

And it's just not gold that gets devalued (and it does), it's the time that players spend in the form of the loot they obtain.

Edited by Featherman, 13 December 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#48 Illein

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostAJS, on 13 December 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

i am not sure - are you a Troll?  Bots are bad for the game and we do not need them, like you said you farm dungeons for most of what you need so what is the problem, besides I like higher prices for mats so I can sell them to players like you who farm dungons for gold.

Well I bet you are annoyed by bots as you seem to be a person who likes to grind the same spot, the same mobs for hours on end and sell that to players like me who can't be arsed.

The difference is bots are cheaper than you - so I rather buy from them.

I don't farm dungeons for most of what I need, I do them for fun and the gold that it gives me, gets me the stuff I need - again: Easier with bots in the game, ridiculously stupid without them.

So my stance is clear on that matter, whether that's trolling for you or not - couldn't care less.

#49 KrakenAZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

It saddens me to see players 'support' botting.  Long term, nothing beneficial comes from allowing exploitation of the game.  If I could wave a magic wand and take away the supporters along with the botters, I would.  Sadface.

#50 Zhaitan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Quote

Collecting and analyzing data is very important to us at ArenaNet. Data is the most powerful weapon in our arsenal against bots. We’ve gathered massive amounts of information about the habits of both normal players and automated bot players. We contracted a team of data specialists to help us build comprehensive tools that comb through this data and find effective ways to single out and terminate bot accounts.

Zero Dark Tyria - The hunt for Usama Bot Laden

Good job ANET!

#51 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

Quote

they have noticed a decrease in botting reports - in October over 2,000 were reported every hour and now they receive about 20 reports per hour.

A) because everyone's in LA now and not in the field.

B)
because I and people I know have just stopped reporting them.  We would rather the bots do what we refuse to do... grind.  Keep an overabundance of supply against demand so that materials are cheap and the truly expensive (pre-cursors) are where people are willing to short-cut the game and buy.

Frankly, I don't see why I should help ArenaNet keep control of its game.  It's not my job.  It's their job.

Edited by MazingerZ, 13 December 2012 - 05:41 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#52 Xsiriss

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

The only reason people may appear 'pro bots' is because they reveal how poorly the economy is managed through sheer unrewarding gameplay that's far too reliant on RNG. Dyes for example, it's pretty much unanimous that they rates dropped significantly after the 'fix' and now their prices are through the roof.

#53 TooBoredForAName

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

View PostB3aT, on 13 December 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

I felt the light breeze that reduced some item costs, I made some pretty good money these days, but still I want them dead.

I still don't think the GM's exists (ofc they exists but I think they are too few ...or don't do their job:)  ..I just gathered some examples from my server


this is exactly what i saw on Far Shiverpeak EU also,a  botfest of -6-8 bots in Malchor's Leap killing an infinite respawn of risen, some one sometime died, and then suddenly reappeared anew within few seconds, even if there were no any nearby waypoint controlled by the players.
Reported them all ofc, i logged off and when i logged back in, like 12 hours later, they all where still there killing and dying and teleporting and killing.

I mentioned this in a post on the official forum that was praising the job that ANet have done with bots and the thread has later been closed because "this thread has derailed from the original topic", just lol...

It is funny GW2 official forum is the first game forum i've found where the biggest trolls are the mods.

#54 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

View PostTooBoredForAName, on 13 December 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I mentioned this in a post on the official forum that was praising the job that ANet have done with bots and the thread has later been closed because "this thread has derailed from the original topic", just lol...

It is funny GW2 official forum is the first game forum i've found where the biggest trolls are the mods.

Their moderation is terrible.  Their forum titles should be 'Turd Polishers.'
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#55 Majic

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

It seems rather silly to support bots because of price issues. Bots are a large part of the reason why drop rates and prices are so sporked: they have a been adjusted to a world in which there are massive numbers of bots.

If (and hopefully when) ArenaNet gets the bot problem under control, the drop rates, markets and prices can adjust without their influence. Once that happens, if we're unhappy with them then, we can complain to ArenaNet, rather than a bunch of botters who don't give a rat's ass what we think.

Or so I pray. ;)

#56 I've got your kisses

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

View PostIllein, on 13 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:


So my stance is clear on that matter, whether that's trolling for you or not - couldn't care less.

I agree with everything you have posted.

#57 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

View PostMajic, on 13 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

It seems rather silly to support bots because of price issues. Bots are a large part of the reason why drop rates and prices are so sporked: they have a been adjusted to a world in which there are massive numbers of bots.

If (and hopefully when) ArenaNet gets the bot problem under control, the drop rates, markets and prices can adjust without their influence. Once that happens, if we're unhappy with them then, we can complain to ArenaNet, rather than a bunch of botters who don't give a rat's ass what we think.

Or so I pray. ;)

But ArenaNet's not making actually playing the game worth it.  Farming isn't what a majority of people consider playing the game.  They want to be rewarded for engaging in activities they enjoy.  The've made FOTM the best way to make money versus playing in events or in the game world.  For the players who don't want to stand around in LA all day and want to spend time in other locales, doing other things... Their income isn't very high.  And T6 mat prices went up without the bots.  So you're going to see support for the bots to keep demand up.

They really just don't have a handle on their game.

Edited by MazingerZ, 13 December 2012 - 06:28 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#58 KrakenAZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:34 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 13 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:


They really just don't have a handle on their game.

Either that or the modern gamer has become a spoiled, self-centered brat who expects everything handed to them on a silver platter.

My vote's on the latter.

#59 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostKrakenAZ, on 13 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Either that or the modern gamer has become a spoiled, self-centered brat who expects everything handed to them on a silver platter.

My vote's on the latter.

LOL.  Here, have a walking stick to shake.

I'll say it again... Managing your customer's expectations is part of running a successful business.  ArenaNet fails at that pretty hard.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#60 Majic

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

Let's assume the problem is the game design. The logical solution is to fix the design, rather than cheer on cheating, selfish opportunists who don't actually make the game better.

If GW2 is really so bad it needs bots to make it worth playing, there's no point in playing at all.




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