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Mike Lewis on the War Against the Bots


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#61 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostMajic, on 13 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Let's assume the problem is the game design. The logical solution is to fix the design, rather than cheer on cheating, selfish opportunists who don't actually make the game better.

If GW2 is really so bad it needs bots to make it worth playing, there's no point in playing at all.

There are a bajillion threads on ways to fix it.  Either the solutions are too slow in being implemented or ArenaNet is happy with the design.

In such cases, its up to the community to find alternatives (and support those alternatives) to bringing the game in line.

And if bots are the means to the end, then go bots.  GO-BOTS.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#62 Featherman

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

Bot aren't a means to that end. Not by a long shot.

#63 BnJ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 13 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

ArenaNet does not ban bots: "ArenaNet sucks and don't care about the game and just let bots run wild!"
ArenaNet ban bots: "OMG ArenaNet sucks, why did they ban all those bots!??!"

Clearly they can't win here.

But then again, the vast majority of the players most likely prefer less bots in the game.

Of course they can win.

Ban bots, BUT remove their stupid Diminishing Return code.

It's not rocket science.

#64 MazingerZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:44 PM

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 13 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Of course they can win.

Ban bots, BUT remove their stupid Diminishing Return code.

It's not rocket science.

Pretty much.  You'll only get players against bots when its in their interest.  There is more of a demand to acquire T6 mats than there is to sell T6 mats, so people want the prices low.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#65 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 13 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Of course they can win.

Ban bots, BUT remove their stupid Diminishing Return code.

It's not rocket science.

You mean that "stupid Diminishing Return code" that does not effect about 90% of the players?

They have had DR in GW1 for YEARS and people did for some reason not whine about it and play the game just as before it was implemented.

#66 BnJ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 13 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

You mean that "stupid Diminishing Return code" that does not effect about 90% of the players?

They have had DR in GW1 for YEARS and people did for some reason not whine about it and play the game just as before it was implemented.
I would love a link to that survey you took to get that figure of 90%.

Did you ever stop and think why people don't farm in this game?  Could it partly be due to DR perhaps?  Hmmm...

Sorry for 'whining' about such a useless piece of code.  Maybe you could explain why it is still there at all instead of staunchly defending it with no reason to back it up.  "It was there in GW1" isn't really an answer either.

Edited by Shroomhead Fred, 13 December 2012 - 10:15 PM.


#67 Lordkrall

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 13 December 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

I would love a link to that survey you took to get that figure of 90%.

Did you ever stop and think why people don't farm in this game?  Could it partly be due to DR perhaps?  Hmmm...

Sorry for 'whining' about such a useless piece of code.  Maybe you could explain why it is still there at all instead of staunchly defending it with no reason to back it up.  "It was there in GW1" isn't really an answer either.

Seeing as it require you to play as a bot, it is quite unlikely that more than 10% will ever experience it (unless counting the dungeon tokens of course but that is a different code)

#68 Symbiont

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

report: i went back to that bot location for a mission to grief and sadly someone beat me to it, all of those bots were dead and they didn't even respawn, mwhuahaha.

while i've accepted that this game might never be bot free, it doesn't mean i can't poke some fun with them. take it as a unintentionally of a not-so-dynamic-event and your challenge is to wipe them out.

#69 BnJ

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 14 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Seeing as it require you to play as a bot, it is quite unlikely that more than 10% will ever experience it (unless counting the dungeon tokens of course but that is a different code)

That's just your own assumption, the real figure could be far from what you think.  That's not the point anyway.

Some people might enjoy playing like a bot, farming might be their main source of enjoyment in MMOs.  So why should these people be denied to play the way they like?  Granted there is some slight wiggle room within the code, but I'd still like a logical reason to why diminishing returns exists at all.  My only conclusion is to keep people playing for longer, which is just lazy & poor game design IMO.

For me personally, I like being able to farm everything I need myself, be it lodestones, cores or T6 mats.  DR makes this a real pain and I don't see why players like me are being punished for no good reason.

Do you see where I'm coming from now?

#70 Lordkrall

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:22 AM

Of course. But that is because you feel the need to get those special items RIGHT NOW, that was never what ArenaNet planned.

The fun thing is that we would not have this discussion if they had added it at release :)

#71 BnJ

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 15 December 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Of course. But that is because you feel the need to get those special items RIGHT NOW, that was never what ArenaNet planned.

Maybe not right right now, but in the next month or two would be nice  :cool:

At my rate though, 6 months minimum I reckon.  I can be patient, I just dislike this code drawing it out even longer.



View PostLordkrall, on 15 December 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

The fun thing is that we would not have this discussion if they had added it at release :)

I actually thought it had been there from the beginning  :surprised:

#72 B3aT

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:38 AM

My own war continues






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