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What is the point of gear tiers?


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#1 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

No, contrary to every other gear-thread, this isn't about ascended gear. It's actually the opposite - this is about tiers below exotic.

I am currently still levelling my warrior. He's around 60. He hasn't crafted a single item and hasn't bought a single piece of gear. Since levelling by killing shit is painfully slow, I decided to level by doing AC runs. I started doing those around 40 and have been gaining gold and levels nicely. To do the AC runs I use the dropped gear - which means I run around in greens, sometimes a gold. Given how I am downscaled, the fact that I do not have top of the line gear for my level, matters little.
Once I reach 80, I plan on using the dropped gear until I get enough gold/karma/tokens to get the exotics I want. I do not plan on buying the best green gear, then moving onto the best gold gear and then exotics. I will go directly to max gear.

I understand gear tiers in games such as D3 (my monk used blue weapons when doing Inferno because the stats on those were better than the golds I could afford) or even GW1 (a game where stats were tied to looks and getting the stats you wanted on the pretty you wanted was part of the endgame), but what is the point of gear tiers in a game where players can take any skin they wish, apply it to any stats they wish AND gear with max stats is fairly easily accessible? Why waste everyone's time by even designing and having so many tiers?
To sell T-Stones?

#2 Gilles VI

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostProtoss, on 12 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

I am currently still levelling my warrior. He's around 60. He hasn't crafted a single item and hasn't bought a single piece of gear. Since levelling by killing shit is painfully slow, I decided to level by doing AC runs. I started doing those around 40 and have been gaining gold and levels nicely. To do the AC runs I use the dropped gear - which means I run around in greens, sometimes a gold. Given how I am downscaled, the fact that I do not have top of the line gear for my level, matters little.


I am doing the same thing, so far I levelled my thief & elementalist from lvl32-35 to 80 solely in AC.
But I can say having rare armor opposed to fine or masterwork makes a big difference.
I madea full rare armorset at lvl35-50-65 and the difference with the blue items I had before that was very big.

#3 Lunar Eclipse

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

Not everyone can afford max gear when they first hit 80. Others with a million alts choose not to spend the money to gear them all up in exotics =)

#4 jimmie51

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

Honestly I think it is for a reward and only that.  If you went around killing stuff and got nothing for it a lot of people would feel slighted.  I think it is so you have some sort of gear as you move along but more so that you get a feeling of being rewarded as you kill mobs.

#5 FreeBooteR

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

To sell T-Stones.

#6 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostLunar Eclipse, on 12 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Not everyone can afford max gear when they first hit 80. Others with a million alts choose not to spend the money to gear them all up in exotics =)

I understand that people will not gear up their characters in exotics. But as I said, one can easily use the dropped gear until they choose to upgrade: greens drop in completely sufficient numbers and they are good enough to complete content.
Basically, the gear in this game is about greens or exotics, everything else is a waste of time and money.

Wait, there's blues in there somewhere also, no? Maybe I am then using blues on my warrior? They drop in decent numbers also, no?

#7 fatrodmc

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

Based on what they said in the ame they think gear tears are fun. They are wrong.

Should be:

Blues - sub 80
Green - 80 non exotic skins
Gold - 80 exotic skins

Nothing else required...

#8 Runkleford

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

It's mostly to create the illusion that there's more equipment and customization of gear than there really is but it really does not add to the game. Pretty much all of the lower tier stuff is vendored or salvaged. Sad thing is that some people are so ingrained with this system that they think this is the only way an MMORPG can work.

#9 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

View Postfatrodmc, on 12 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Based on what they said in the ame they think gear tears are fun. They are wrong.

Should be:

Blues - sub 80
Green - 80 non exotic skins
Gold - 80 exotic skins

Nothing else required...

This sounds absolutely amazing!



View PostRunkleford, on 12 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

It's mostly to create the illusion that there's more equipment and customization of gear than there really is but it really does not add to the game. Pretty much all of the lower tier stuff is vendored or salvaged. Sad thing is that some people are so ingrained with this system that they think this is the only way an MMORPG can work.

What I really don't understand is why they don't understand that the lack of a need for a gear tier system is one of the biggest strengths of GW games. It's what makes the game stand out and makes for a different game compared to what is available out there.
Now, I get that they would want to get in on that sweet tiered gear market, but the rest of the game is built to not support this. Why do this crazzy-ass mix of completely contradicting concepts?
And to bring AG into this: now they are building their end-game on this. Why not build end-game on the game's strengths instead?

#10 lmaonade

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostProtoss, on 12 December 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

This sounds absolutely amazing!





What I really don't understand is why they don't understand that the lack of a need for a gear tier system is one of the biggest strengths of GW games. It's what makes the game stand out and makes for a different game compared to what is available out there.
Now, I get that they would want to get in on that sweet tiered gear market, but the rest of the game is built to not support this. Why do this crazzy-ass mix of completely contradicting concepts?
And to bring AG into this: now they are building their end-game on this. Why not build end-game on the game's strengths instead?

there were gear tiers in GW1

the difference is that the process up to max armor was easy and painless, max gear did not require grind (or very little), once you progressed your story up to Droknar's Forge in Prophecies, you'd have basically enough to get it. Here even max gear is a grind (around 10 to 15g for a full set)

of course this is a small problem in a whole vast sea of things I would've liked to see adapted from GW1, there were a lot of good things about that game that Arenanet didn't import

Edited by lmaonade, 12 December 2012 - 10:53 PM.


#11 Dasryn

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

im starting to notice AC runs are leveling me faster. . . i hope this doesnt get nerfed. . .

#12 Cronos988

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

I guess to have a progression without too many jumps. It just feels better for most people if they get gradually better, instead of waiting all game for that single piece of gear. No gear tiers would likely make people feel the game is a grind for that one piece of top gear.

#13 Arquenya

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:36 AM

T-Stones (fine ones) are definitely the primary reason why you can't get all equipment with all stats (like in GW).
I must have used over 30 of those by now.
  • White - used to transfer soulbound items between characters
  • Blue/green - should be made into 1 tier. Also: stop the avalanche of blue drops in dungeons and replace it with gold
  • Gold - ecto source. Also used by developers to make people buy T-stones (T3 cultural)
  • Exotic - your basic lvl80 gear
  • Ascended - nonsensical extra tier

View PostProtoss, on 12 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Since levelling by killing shit is painfully slow, I decided to level by doing AC runs.

Once I reach 80, I plan on using the dropped gear until I get enough gold/karma/tokens to get the exotics I want.
If you level by doing AC explorables you should have more than enough tokens to get an exotic set at lvl80.
3 runs equals 1 piece, 4 or 5 runs for chest and leggings.

Or use your daily karma jugs & dungeon karma flasks with a karma booster (+50%) and get Orr temple gear.
I used them on my guardian and got 475k karma; the temple pieces are 42k a piece.

The gold you made by dungeon running can be used to get jewelry, runes and sigils.

Edited by Arquenya, 13 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#14 FoxBat

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

This game has zero random ranges. Every gear of a given level requirement, quality, prefix has the exact same stats. Even GW1 weapons weren't like that. If you're going to have people progress up to 80, you probably want to offer a little more smoothness in the upgrading experience.

You can actually find greens and yellows too, you know. So they're partly there to enhance that "find drops as you go" feeling, that you can get something better than your current blues without having to level up.

At end game it's somewhat pointless, but then so is level 80. GW2 is definitely built for more than endgame.

Edited by FoxBat, 13 December 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#15 Gruunz

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:08 PM

Tiered gear, so we have stuff to vendor.

#16 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 12 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

It's mostly to create the illusion that there's more equipment and customization of gear than there really is but it really does not add to the game. Pretty much all of the lower tier stuff is vendored or salvaged. Sad thing is that some people are so ingrained with this system that they think this is the only way an MMORPG can work.

My mesmer JUST crafted some level 65 rares for herself...before that it was whatever greens and blues that dropped. I've repeatedly had to buy whites from the armorsmith in an area to get myself up to some semblance of par with the area I was playing in. You don't automatically get green or yellow armor for your character when you get to a higher level area. Sometimes you have to take what you can get. THAT is the point of gear tiers. And if the only thing that dropped at level 80 were yellows, inflation would be horrendous.

Not to mention that skins available as rares are not always available as green or blue.

#17 Runkleford

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

My mesmer JUST crafted some level 65 rares for herself...before that it was whatever greens and blues that dropped. I've repeatedly had to buy whites from the armorsmith in an area to get myself up to some semblance of par with the area I was playing in. You don't automatically get green or yellow armor for your character when you get to a higher level area. Sometimes you have to take what you can get. THAT is the point of gear tiers. And if the only thing that dropped at level 80 were yellows, inflation would be horrendous.

Not to mention that skins available as rares are not always available as green or blue.

I think you're not realizing that the situation you described is a result of the gear tier system itself. Rares and exotics are purposely tweaked so that they hardly ever drop (I don't think I've ever gotten an exotic from a drop and only a handful of rares from drops) while all the lower tiers are tweaked to drop more frequently. As I said before, it's an illusion. You only think that you need more gear tiers so you can have those lower tiers to bridge the gap towards the highest tiers only because the game was DESIGNED to be that way. If ANET never put in the lower tiers and tweaked rares to drop as frequently as greens, we would not need all these lower tiers to cover us until we get exotics. So no, there is no point to gear tier expect to fool people into thinking that there's some sort of progression when it's actually completely artificial.

As for skins, my above statement covers that as well. Like I said, people just can't seem to get away from the tired and stale mindset that there needs to be gear tier in a game in order to have options and customization and even get brainwashed into the notion that it's necessary when it's really just that the game designers themselves that designed it to be "necessary".

Edited by Runkleford, 13 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.


#18 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

There always has to be rarity in items. People want that. Economy wants that. If the "good stuff" dropped as often as the "regular" or "ugly" stuff, the economy would flatten out and die after a short period of time. rares and exotics are rare and exotic. That's what the names mean. If Rares were as common as COMMONS, then they wouldn't be "rare", would they? YES, lower tiers are coded to drop more frequently. That's the point. When you play Final Fantasy, you don't get the top tier drops as often as you get the merchant garbage, do you? Name me one game with customizable and leveled gear drops that don't have rarities attached.


Gear tiering is a staple of all RPGs and MMOs. If you could walk through to the end of the game with starter gear, and still look as good as someone with prestige gear, then what's the point?


So what you're saying is that the gear you have until you reach 80 doesn't matter, because then you'll have your exotics? Not everyone at level 80 has full exotics, by the way.

All progression in a game is artificial. THE GAME IS ARTIFICIAL. That's how they designed it. Don't play games if you don't want artificial progression. FFS.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 09:59 PM.


#19 FoxBat

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

All progression in a game is artificial. THE GAME IS ARTIFICIAL. That's how they designed it. Don't play games if you don't want artificial progression. FFS.

Amen.

I don't know who said gear tiers are needed for customization, but their primary purpose is progression. Progression isn't a means to some end, it is an end that has been a hit with people ever since the first Dungeons & Dragons die was rolled. So game designers make up systems to appease that desire just like they make up different systems to appease every other desire. You might be really brainwashed if you think there's anything natural or necessary about games at all.

#20 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 13 December 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Amen.

I don't know who said gear tiers are needed for customization, but their primary purpose is progression. Progression isn't a means to some end, it is an end that has been a hit with people ever since the first Dungeons & Dragons die was rolled. So game designers make up systems to appease that desire just like they make up different systems to appease every other desire. You might be really brainwashed if you think there's anything natural or necessary about games at all.

But the question isn't why gear tiers - it's "why gear tiers in GW2". As was pointed out, dropped gear (in all it's shitty green glory) is good enough to allow you to jump straight to exotics if you choose to do so - and if you don't, then the dropped gear will be good enough. The game basically punishes the people who play the gear-progression game up to exotics, since you simply end up wasting resources.

#21 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

To the OP: transmutation was made so you didn't have to run XYZ stats to get ABC looks. If you want certain stats, you shouldn't be forced to run a mishmash ugly set of armor to do so, and vice versa. You shouldn't need to run shitty stats to run good looking gear. As for exotics being "easily attainable" , that's a laugh. It's easy for some who play often, and play wisely. But play casually, a few hours a week or so, or just weekends, and it could be months before seeing your first exotic, and that's if you spend 5 gold or more to max a crafting profession. Then you need to do it again for the rest of your gear. Warrior needs Huntsman, Weaponsmith and Armorsmith to craft everything exotic. Guardian needs weapon/armorsmith and artificer. Thief needs leatherworker, huntsman and weaponsmith. They all need at least three professions to craft exotic gear for full loadout. Mesmer needs four! (tailor, artificer, weaponsmith, and huntsman)

Seeing as how the main secondary argument in this thread is "rarity" of dropped exotics, and all.

View PostProtoss, on 13 December 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

But the question isn't why gear tiers - it's "why gear tiers in GW2". As was pointed out, dropped gear (in all it's shitty green glory) is good enough to allow you to jump straight to exotics if you choose to do so - and if you don't, then the dropped gear will be good enough. The game basically punishes the people who play the gear-progression game up to exotics, since you simply end up wasting resources.

How so? It sounds like you simply want to do away with everything but masterwork and exotic. "Here's your decent gear, and here's your top shelf gear later on. Don't worry about looking good, it all looks the same and everyone's a clone of everyone else."

GW1 even had tiered armor. Not just 1.5k and 15k. They had crappy looking collector armor, they had decent looking vendor armor, and they had elite armor. Then they had obsidian, vabbian, etc armor which were still "elite" but pricewise at a much higher level. And it looked the part.

As for masterwork being "good enough"...it might be good enough for some players in dungeons with guildies who are fully kitted out. But it's not good for a pug in the same dungeon. If all 5 had masterwork gear, you'd fail 9 times out of 10. Player skill or not, the percent difference between masterwork and exotic is too big. Rare bridges that gap and makes pugs viable for dungeons. Do you want masterwork to have the stats of Rares? Hooray, everyone gets to start their game with rares!

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 10:39 PM.


#22 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:39 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

GW1 even had tiered armor. Not just 1.5k and 15k. They had crappy looking collector armor, they had decent looking vendor armor, and they had elite armor. Then they had obsidian, vabbian, etc armor which were still "elite" but pricewise at a much higher level. And it looked the part.

Tiers don't refer to looks, tiers refer to stats.

#23 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Tiers don't refer to looks, tiers refer to stats.

And in GW2 it also refers to looks. Because each tier has its own set of skins, with a few skins bleeding over.

EVERY RPG HAS TIERED STAT GEAR. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTION. Why should GW2 be any different? Seriously, do you REALLY want everyone to have max stat gear from the very start? Completing a set of gear to your standards, specs and looks is half the damn game! Hooray, Protoss is petitioning to outright destroy half the reason GW2 is a viable GAME.

Reasons specifically for tiers:

Whites of an optimal level can get you through trash mobs, can't solo veterans of your equal level.
Blues of the same level can give you a fighting chance against veterans without adds...you get stomped immediately by champs.
Greens make veterans with adds doable, champions are doable in a large enough group. Dungeons are near-impossible with a full green group.
Rares make veterans a joke, adds only make you have to think a little. Champion groups can be smaller. Dungeon groups are doable.
Exotics don't do much more than rares in this regard, champs can still one-hit most players. But they look better, subjectively. Dungeons are capable of being done easily with enough experience.

If you want to do the harder content, get higher quality gear. If you can't afford it, you're stuck doing lower level content until you can. Nothing to be gained by allowing a level 30 to faceroll a dungeon in greens...all of the prestige of the dungeon rewards will be lost.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 10:46 PM.


#24 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

And in GW2 it also refers to looks. Because each tier has its own set of skins, with a few skins bleeding over.

EVERY RPG HAS TIERED STAT GEAR. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTION. Why should GW2 be any different? Seriously, do you REALLY want everyone to have max stat gear from the very start? Completing a set of gear to your standards, specs and looks is half the damn game! Hooray, Protoss is petitioning to outright destroy half the reason GW2 is a viable GAME.

Pokemon?

And yes, as I said numerous times I wouldn't mind in the slightest if all stats were removed from GW2 - it was that that I, and many others, adored about GW1. This would mean that GW2 wouldn't cater to the people that want stats, but there's enough of RPGs out there that already cater to this crowd - as you pointed out.
Now, as was already mentioned - with downscalling in place, the need for max gear is very much reduced. Not only that, the difference between gear ranks isn't as massive as you make out to be - gear alone will not save you from dying. If you find yourself dying too much, it's completely insane to upgrade your green to golds - you'll just end up wasting more money on repairs.

As was said about looks earlier - if looks are the main point of tiers, then tiers are basically just there to sell T-Stones.


EDIT:
I'd also point out that I barely repair gear. That doesn't mean that I don't die, on the contrary, but it does mean that I get (crappy, green) gear dropped in absolutely sufficient numbers to be simply able to replace the broken gear. Since the game has gone live, I've probably only repaired gear a few times (I'd say less than 10) and a few of those times were mistakes since I wanted to sell my crap at the repair guy and I ended up selecting the repair option instead of the merchant one.

Edited by Protoss, 13 December 2012 - 11:04 PM.


#25 Desild

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

EVERY RPG HAS TIERED STAT GEAR. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTION. Why should GW2 be any different? Seriously, do you REALLY want everyone to have max stat gear from the very start? Completing a set of gear to your standards, specs and looks is half the damn game! Hooray, Protoss is petitioning to outright destroy half the reason GW2 is a viable GAME.

Yes, I would love that everyone had max tiered stat gear. Seems to work for my tabletop sessions to be quite honest. Warriors get +2, Rogues get +1 and Mages get +0. That is how it works in every game with a concept of class. Squishy to non-squisy scale.

Our power should come from the skills we gain, from the special effects in our equipment, and small perks.

I don't want a sword that says "X Power". I want a sword that says "Makes foes burst into flames" or "Allows you to summon Titan Blade". Small things that would make me think on the value of the perk instead of its stats.

Edited by Desild, 13 December 2012 - 10:55 PM.


#26 Arquenya

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

EVERY RPG HAS TIERED STAT GEAR. EVERY ONE. NO EXCEPTION. Why should GW2 be any different?
Didn't Vanilla GW have no tiers?

#27 Runkleford

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

All progression in a game is artificial. THE GAME IS ARTIFICIAL. That's how they designed it. Don't play games if you don't want artificial progression. FFS.

FFS.

Let me put it in the context of what you said. You pretty much said before that gear tiers are necessary because you need the lower gear tiers to fill in the gaps on the way to the highest gear tier. What I'm saying is that the NEED to fill in the gaps was artificially created by the gear tier itself. You're just committing circular logic fallacy.

Here, I'll type in caps just like you so that even you can understand it: THE NEED FOR GEAR TIERS TO FILL IN GAPS IS ARTIFICIALLY CREATED BY THE GEAR TIER ITSELF. Now about you stop your idiotic misrepresentation of what I've actually said?

Also, I wouldn't mind if EVERYONE had max stat gear. In fact I'd prefer it. I don't need to feel like I have a big e-peen just because I have better stats than some others. There's no reason to have a max stat discrepancy among players other than to feed some stupid ego.

Edited by Runkleford, 13 December 2012 - 11:08 PM.


#28 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:09 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 13 December 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

FFS.

Let me put it in the context of what you said. You pretty much said before that gear tiers are necessary because you need the lower gear tiers to fill in the gaps on the way to the highest gear tier. What I'm saying is that the NEED to fill in the gaps was artificially created by the gear tier itself. You're just committing circular logic fallacy.

Here, I'll type in caps just like you so that even you can understand it: THE NEED FOR GEAR TIERS TO FILL IN GAPS IS ARTIFICIALLY CREATED BY THE GEAR TIER ITSELF.

SO YOU WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE THE SAME LEVEL GEAR AT EVERY POINT OF THE GAME....am I right?

But I think your idea of cause and effect is a bit skewed here. The existence of gear tiering didn't create the rarity differences between types of armor. The rarity created the need for tiering. BEcause if everyone had rares, they wouldn't be rares. It would just be "either you have X skin, or Y skin." No reason to progress once you get the skin you want, being readily available, because they all have the same stats. Like I said...a good portion of the game is working towards the gear and skins you desire. Of course they put gear progression in the game...it would stagnate and die after a while because eventually everyone would experience everything in the game, and the only thing left would be grinding for the REALLY rare, prestigious items. Progression simply delays this inevitable point, while they work at adding new content.

Honestly, I think top tier gear is a little too easy to obtain. That's why they obviously had to rush Lost Shores content, because I doubt they expected people to be completing Legendaries only a month after release.

View PostArquenya, on 13 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Didn't Vanilla GW have no tiers?

Vanilla GW had what I listed, minus the greens. Then came sorrow's furnace, before Factions. Not too long after release, and only a small change.

#29 Runkleford

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

SO YOU WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE THE SAME LEVEL GEAR AT EVERY POINT OF THE GAME....am I right?

But I think your idea of cause and effect is a bit skewed here. The existence of gear tiering didn't create the rarity differences between types of armor. The rarity created the need for tiering. BEcause if everyone had rares, they wouldn't be rares. It would just be "either you have X skin, or Y skin." No reason to progress once you get the skin you want, being readily available, because they all have the same stats. Like I said...a good portion of the game is working towards the gear and skins you desire. Of course they put gear progression in the game...it would stagnate and die after a while because eventually everyone would experience everything in the game, and the only thing left would be grinding for the REALLY rare, prestigious items. Progression simply delays this inevitable point, while they work at adding new content.

Honestly, I think top tier gear is a little too easy to obtain. That's why they obviously had to rush Lost Shores content, because I doubt they expected people to be completing Legendaries only a month after release.

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING SO MUCH??!! CALM THE F--- DOWN!

No, that's not exactly what I want but I'm also not going to type into detail this complex system on a forum just to explain to you. All I was saying is that your argument that gear tiers are necessary because lower gear tiers fill in the gaps towards higher tiers is a circular logic fallacy.

#30 AKGeo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

EDIT:
I'd also point out that I barely repair gear. That doesn't mean that I don't die, on the contrary, but it does mean that I get (crappy, green) gear dropped in absolutely sufficient numbers to be simply able to replace the broken gear. Since the game has gone live, I've probably only repaired gear a few times (I'd say less than 10) and a few of those times were mistakes since I wanted to sell my crap at the repair guy and I ended up selecting the repair option instead of the merchant one.

So if greens are common enough for you and you possess the skill to complete every aspect of the game you participate in with them (doubtful), then why cry about what other players obviously don't care about, or enjoy?

View PostRunkleford, on 13 December 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING SO MUCH??!! CALM THE F--- DOWN!

No, that's not exactly what I want but I'm also not going to type into detail this complex system on a forum just to explain to you. All I was saying is that your argument that gear tiers are necessary because lower gear tiers fill in the gaps towards higher tiers is a circular logic fallacy.

I was replying to your caps, numpty. And I wrote in caps earlier because I despise repeating myself.


It's not circular logic...it's a solution to a problem that is replayability. If everyone started out with the same stats, the game would stagnate. Again repeating myself, to deaf ears, apparently. This is not a tabletop roleplay, where you're limited only by imagination. This is a video game designed to be played by people on less-than-stellar computers without the storage capacity and processing power of the human brain. Big difference there. There has to be a boundary, a limitation in what you can do...they can't make a game with infinite replayability and have it anywhere near functional on a PC. So they go to the next step: gear progression and periodic expansions. Need I remind you that Anet is a relatively small VG company without unlimited resources, and they need to make a profit?

You keep complaining about artificial progression in a game that is completely artificial. By definition, any progression is going to be artificial. Nothing in a video game is going to be organic, naturally progressive. That would require processing power, memory, and data storage beyond the reach of any PC owner, as well as near-AI (if not complete AI). Please, come back down to earth...this isn't Ender's Game.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 11:18 PM.





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