91 replies to this topic

[AKGeo]

Soki...can you provide evidence that drop rates are lower for non-MF people than they would be if MF didn't exist? Is it at all possible that the current drop rate tables for 0 MF are simply improved by using MF, rather than the other way around?

The way you put it, you'd need MF to be maxed out completely in order to get the "intended" drop rate, and running any less puts a negative modifier on the drop rate. I highly doubt that's how it works. Anet is not going to up the drop rate across the board and remove magic find. Most people DON'T run full magic find, so doing this would increase drop rates substantially, flooding the market with gold and creating instant inflation. As is what happened to GW1. I remember when 10 platinum for a desired gold skin was the norm...not 100plat+X ectos as it was a year after release. Do you want to see precursor prices jump to over 1k gold? Because if they do as you suggest, that'll immediately happen. Because MF doesn't affect the sources of precursors very much at all. Sure, more rares = more forge food, but  I believe dragon chests are a much more reliable source simply because of the vast amount of people doing them.

And calling me dense when I point out your obvious lack of thought only further discredits your points.

You agree that MF hardly affects damage and performance in dungeons, yet you're STILL petitioning for MF to be removed...BECAUSE IT HURTS THE TEAM. That's a highly contradictory statement. You're also equating someone's use of MF to a lack of skill...false. Someone with sufficient skill but not being rewarded for it is going to increase their MF stat in order to get some extra loot. What hurts the team more is that warrior full-dps specced but running a rifle because he doesn't know how to evade the one-shots that he doesn't have the armor for....or the thief with dual pistols spreading short-duration bleed on huge mobs, only using unload against bosses instead of body shot, and spamming black powder on champion/legendaries with 10% blind effectiveness. Magic Find is LAST on the list of "things that make pugs suck".

As for the gem shop...wow. According to you, MF gear exists so people will be tempted to run it, reducing their performance (let's ignore your contradiction above for the moment), which means high level materials are less common than they would be if people were able to kill things only marginally faster, so they'd have to go to the gem shop to buy their materials? Do you realize how stupid this sounds? And in the same breath, you claim that the PvE content is easy enough to do without armor at all. So which is it? And how would a lower supply of high level materials hurt gatherers? Less supply = higher demand = higher prices. If you're efficient at gathering those materials, then you own a larger share of the market. And you can get those same materials from common, fine and masterwork gear, not just rares and exotics. As for ectos from rare drops...hardly the main source of ectos. Ectos' main source are dungeons, CoF and higher. 30 tokens for a rare headpiece with up to 3 ectos potential, easily farmed with guaranteed token results. Two rares per path. Up to 6 ectos per run. Butcher path HotW takes a paltry amount of time...not to mention other ways of quickly getting HotW tokens.

Take the tinfoil hat off, put the elitist manual away, and let people play the way they want. They're REALLY NOT hurting you by running MF gear. If you feel that they are, then don't pug dungeons, start your own guild for dungeon running, and kick players who even breathe a mention of magic find.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[sty0pa]

Venereus, on 13 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

This is where you're wrong. Players geared for Magic Find can potentially lower the group's effectiveness, but that's not always the case. Different groups can perform equally with or without Magic Find players, since there are many variables involved, player skill being paramount. You can go on your Magic Find witch hunt all you want, but bad players will always be your real problem.

Meh, that's sort of sophomoric hair-splitting.

It's pretty objectively true that "given a common level of expertise, a toon with magic find gear will perform less optimally than a toon with class/role-specific runes"...I mean, you can't even argue that.  If it wasn't true, then the runes/sigils/whatever are pointless.
Certainly skill>gear, and a good player in all-MF gear beats a bad player with the optimal runes.
(What everyone wants to avoid, of course, is a "Bad MFer"...sorry, I just wanted to say that...)

Now, do I get to say "I think it's a bad player that gears for MF", I can have that opinion but it doesn't make it true.

But in essence I agree with the poster - firstly the MF enchant is a gamey meta thing that doesn't really belong.  Further, It INVITES people to gear their toon for substandard performance for the task, in order to maximize their PERSONAL reward.  That's fundamentally selfish.
And, since there's no way to inspect other players, essentially Anet is incentivizing people to gimp their groups and make the game harder to play/succeed for personal gain.

Which seems sort of silly.

[jirayasan]

sevalaricgirl, on 13 December 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

There is no tanking or healing in this game.  This is not WOW.  People are still thinking in terms of WOW.  That is not this game.  MF does not make me any less potent at what I do since I have other traits and skills that make me potent.

You can be a support healer or you can be defensive and take alot of damage. No there are no pure healer or no taunts.

[Soki]

AKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Soki...can you provide evidence that drop rates are lower for non-MF people than they would be if MF didn't exist? Is it at all possible that the current drop rate tables for 0 MF are simply improved by using MF, rather than the other way around?

The way you put it, you'd need MF to be maxed out completely in order to get the "intended" drop rate, and running any less puts a negative modifier on the drop rate. I highly doubt that's how it works.

And calling me dense when I point out your obvious lack of thought only further discredits your points.

You agree that MF hardly affects damage and performance in dungeons, yet you're STILL petitioning for MF to be removed...BECAUSE IT HURTS THE TEAM. That's a highly contradictory statement. You're also equating someone's use of MF to a lack of skill...false. Someone with sufficient skill but not being rewarded for it is going to increase their MF stat in order to get some extra loot. What hurts the team more is that warrior full-dps specced but running a rifle because he doesn't know how to evade the one-shots that he doesn't have the armor for....or the thief with dual pistols spreading short-duration bleed on huge mobs, only using unload against bosses instead of body shot, and spamming black powder on champion/legendaries with 10% blind effectiveness. Magic Find is LAST on the list of "things that make pugs suck".

As for the gem shop...wow. According to you, MF gear exists so people will be tempted to run it, reducing their performance (let's ignore your contradiction above for the moment), which means high level materials are less common than they would be if people were able to kill things only marginally faster, so they'd have to go to the gem shop to buy their materials? Do you realize how stupid this sounds? And in the same breath, you claim that the PvE content is easy enough to do without armor at all. So which is it?

Take the tinfoil hat off, put the elitist manual away, and let people play the way they want. They're REALLY NOT hurting you by running MF gear. If you feel that they are, then don't pug dungeons, start your own guild for dungeon running, and kick players who even breathe a mention of magic find.

Oh, lord.
Here's a better question: Can you give me any other reason for MF to exists, other than "I don't think that's how it works"?
If you were a developer, what point does Magic Find have in existing?


The reason MF exists in GW2 is the same reason it exists in Diablo3. It's always about the economy, with Magic Find. It pushed people to use the RMAH to get gear - and thus, gives profit to Blizzard.
It works out similarly with GW2, because if MF exists, ANet gets more $ spent on gems.
It's not on me to prove what I've already proven - it's on you to give me an alternative reason as to why MF exists.

I brought up the game's difficulty, player skill, and how the average player would amass $ if MF didn't exist - and how the economy would be affected by it in a way that would actually make that player $ - in order to illustrate to you how my theory of why MF exists is, most probably, correct.

But it doesn't matter how many times I explain it to you - you've basically told me that you prefer unfounded conjecture of yours over my explanation of a founded monetization method; so I'll cut it here before you or me get infracted by an overzealous mod.

Spoiler

My previous posts are still up - if you feel like a crash-course in how wrong you are, read 'em.

Edited by Soki, 13 December 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Norn Osprey]

AKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Stats don't matter nearly enough as player knowledge of the content and skill in their own roles. I myself notice very little difference in damage dealt and time spent completing content between my MF gear and my berserker's DPS gear (thief)

I would almost agree with you, if I didnt have 4 sets of gear. Since I do, you are full of it.

I can put on my burst set and tell an immediate, extremely noticeable difference between that and my MF set or my Condition set or my high Toughness/HP set.  To say otherwise is being very disingenerous or outright deceitful.

jirayasan, on 13 December 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Magic Find should be seperate from runes and not replace them.

I would say, MF should -only- be on food and guild banners. Remove it all other sources of it. Increase the values on food and banners to make up the difference and be done with a terrible stat.

[MazingerZ]

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Oh, lord.
Here's a better question: Can you give me any other reason for MF to exist, based on known facts?

A risk vs reward exchange.  You play at a weaker state to gain more.

It doesn't really work in this environment for two reasons:

1) You're expecting other people to carry your slack.  I'm frankly and frequently disgusted by people who are wearing MF gear bitching about other people not knowing how to play.

2) The monetizing of this game and the balancing of its economy is pretty important.  Therefore, increasing people's capability to generate wealth incongruous with the core of the game's monetization.  Which is why there's only really anecdotal evidence that MF matters a wit unless you're actually slathering it onto yourself at a high rate.

[AKGeo]

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Oh, lord.
Here's a better question: Can you give me any other reason for MF to exists, other than "I don't think that's how it works"?
If you were a developer, what point does Magic Find have in existing?


I'm positive of the reason MF exists in GW2, because it's the same reason it exists in Diablo3. It's always about the economy, with Magic Find.
it works out well with GW2, because if MF exists, ANet gets more $ spent on gems.
It's not on me to prove what I've already proven - it's on you to give me an alternative reason as to why MF exists.


It doesn't matter how many times I explain it to you - you've basically told me that you prefer unfounded conjecture of yours over my logic; so I'll cut this short.
My previous posts are still up - if you feel like having an epiphany, reread them.

As a developer, MF exists to give people a new stat to work towards. It's variety. Either they can sacrifice drops for a small perceived advantage in stats, or skilled players can take that small hit in stats, easily made up for with play skill, and get a little more gold in their bank.

You made the claim that MF is there to drive people to the gem shop. I've debunked your reasons with simple logic. Yes, it is on you to prove your statements. Cite a source for your "proof", and please give the egotistical bullshit a rest.

It's ludicrous that MF's existence actually reduce drop rates for everyone unless they use it. Knowing that there will be factions in the game who despise MF due to the paltry reduction in stats. Do you get on people for running toughness/healing power gear? because that doesn't really make the runs go faster either. They're sacrificing more damage than I am with my MF gear.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[AKGeo]

Norn Osprey, on 13 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I would almost agree with you, if I didnt have 4 sets of gear. Since I do, you are full of it.

I can put on my burst set and tell an immediate, extremely noticeable difference between that and my MF set or my Condition set or my high Toughness/HP set.  To say otherwise is being very disingenerous or outright deceitful.

I have a thief. I run either MF or berserker's for crit backstab. My CnD+Backstab with MF gear averages around 10k damage total on Subject Alpha in CoE (most reliable continuous backstab on a dungeon boss that I've found). My CnD+Backstab with berserker gear averages around 11-12k damage. I crit every time due to traits. 1-2k damage every 3 seconds is NOT a lot. It might seem like a lot, but really it isn't. It might take a minute or two off of the total dungeon time. Oh well. I'm not in it for speed clearing, when I'm in a pug.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Soki]

AKGeo, on 13 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

As a developer, MF exists to give people a new stat to work towards. It's variety. Either they can sacrifice drops for a small perceived advantage in stats, or skilled players can take that small hit in stats, easily made up for with play skill, and get a little more gold in their bank.

You made the claim that MF is there to drive people to the gem shop. I've debunked your reasons with simple logic. Yes, it is on you to prove your statements. Cite a source for your "proof", and please give the egotistical bullshit a rest.

This would be true, were the difference between MF and normal gear enough to cause success or failure.
As it stands, MF is actually adverse to the design philosophy of providing choices.
Everybody should use MF for everything. Period. No content is hard enough to actually push players to get the most out of their characters.

If their intent were to provide such a choice, MF would include a damage-taken debuff based on the % of it you have equipped. But it doesn't. Content remains binary, as far as the choice of MF is concerned.
Of course, I may actually be giving ANet too much credit, in how MF is set up.

You haven't actually disproven a thing, though.
My argument was that MF is detrimental to the players, and a boon to the developers - which means it's bad for the game. In making that argument, I brought up how MF is un-nerfing the low drop rates mobs have.
I base that logic on how ANet have used their not-so-invisible hand to affect the TP market with item droprates - like lodestones. With that sort of conscious control on the marketplace, it's obvious how they use MF as an equalizer.

MF is bad for the game. End-statement. Do you disagree with that statement, Yes or no?

Spoiler

It's hard not to appear egotistical when you have to repeatedly explain something to someone who just can't seem to grasp it; while they assert they've debunked what you're saying without really -saying- anything

Edited by Soki, 13 December 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[AKGeo]

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

This would be true, were the difference between MF and normal gear enough to cause success or failure.
As it stands, MF is actually adverse to the design philosophy of providing choices.
Everybody should use MF for everything. Period. No content is hard enough to actually push players to get the most out of their characters.


If their intent were to provide such a choice, MF would include a damage-taken debuff based on the % of it you have equipped. But it doesn't. Content remains binary, as far as the choice of MF is concerned.

Content is not easy enough for "anyone" to do it with "any" gear. Some people lack the skill that others possess, therefore need better gear to compensate. Just more elitism from you.

Yet, you again claim that MF gear is a paltry difference performance-wise than other spec gear, while still maintaining that it hurts the game. Your entire argument is that it hurts the economy and drives people to the gem shop. Again ridiculous. More supply = lower prices. People don't have to farm as much gold for that unique exotic because it drops more often. More golds and exotics make for more Forge food, which makes for more Forge-exclusive exotics like Charrzooka. Prices drop due to increased supply. In the meantime, the same old gold sinks remain, people are spending their gold left and right on cultural armor, Commander titles, Legendary materials, etc...very few of which are dependent on magic find at all. Anet did a great job of keeping inflation to a minimum, though it still exists. But making specific items more readily available helps the casual player by driving prices for those skins down. I'm equipping all of my toons with named unique-skinned exotics at 1-4g each because of my MF gear, and I haven't spent a single dollar on the gem shop.

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

You haven't actually disproven a thing, though.
My argument was that MF is detrimental to the players, and a boon to the developers - which means it's bad for the game. In making that argument, I brought up how MF is un-nerfing the low drop rates mobs have.
I base that logic on how ANet have used their not-so-invisible hand to affect the TP market with item droprates - like lodestones. With that sort of conscious control on the marketplace, it's obvious how they use MF as an equalizer.

MF is bad for the game. End-statement. Do you disagree with that statement, Yes or No?

Tinfoil...tinfoil everywhere. Anet's only obvious effect on item pricing is the banning of bots which increased prices due to the sudden immediate drop in supply. It also doesn't help that recipes for items such as Volcanus, Infinite Light and Mjolnir have become public knowledge. Lodestones were never common enough to create a large number of these items, even when these items were unknown to the public. People who have discovered these recipes were more influential in driving the prices up than even the bot bannings, because they foresaw the price increase and bought them off of the TP in large amounts. When it takes a total of 250 of two types of lodestone to make a legendary, but 350 of any one to make one of these weapons, you're going to see prices rise when it's discovered.

You might be able to argue that the Lost Shores event was a fairly obvious method of getting more people to buy lodestones by flooding the community with precursors, but you can also argue that developers were attempting to lower the cost of precursors by increasing the supply. Sure, getting a precursor might prompt someone to go into immediate farm mode for that legendary, but with the prices the way they were before the event, I'm more inclined to assume that the majority of people would be flooding the TP with these items for sale once they obtained the funds to list them, or selling them directly to avoid the listing fee.

I completely and whole-heartedly disagree with your statement. Magic Find does nothing but give players with the funds to create it a way of recouping said costs and earning a little bit of extra coin for the numerous amount of shinies available.

And I'm going to compare GW2 to GW1 right now. GW1 had the same number of tiers for gear: white, blue, purple, yellow. green vs white, blue, green, yellow, orange. Legendary doesn't count as it's a new mechanic.

My yellow drop rates with full MF gear are much higher than my average yellow drop rate in GW1, save for some very efficient farming methods in GW1 not available in GW2, such as keg bombing and raptor farming. Green drop rates are about on par for me with exotics, though greens in GW1 were much more predictable as they only dropped from specific enemies with established farms. If I found an established farm for exotic drops in GW2, my rates would probably be higher.

You could not get ectoplasm in GW1 other than from a specific elite dungeon which was constantly adjusted and monitored to prevent overfarming. Yes, tombs dropped ecto as well, but not nearly as much. Here you can get ectos en masse simply from playing the game and salvaging rares at level 68 or above. You can craft rares using no ectos, then salvage them for ectos. They've made it so ectos are no longer a form of currency, but they've also made it so ectos are required for more than just prestige armor. Nevertheless, I'm collecting a surplus of them even after crafting exotic gear for my characters. Again, not a penny spent on the gem shop, and I don't farm hardcore or play the TP. I just level characters, play dungeons for armor pieces and weapons for those characters. That's it.

Edited by AKGeo, 13 December 2012 - 08:04 PM.

[VanderBeltLegacy]

wait..no 1 has a second armor set with MF max to the wazoo just for looting?, then switches back to normal gear for combat?, i wouldnt question MF at all, i'd question intelligence of the people who you play with, k thanks

[Arquenya]

jirayasan, on 13 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Magic Find on runes are really bad, people could go with damage runes, tank runes or support runes but instead they go magic find runes. There changes ArenaNet can make to stop it.

- Jewelry Runes - Can be put on necklaces, rings, backs, accessory. 2 ring slots, 1 necklace,1 back and 2 accessory. That's 6 jewelry slots = 1 full rune.

- Food and drinks - Can be made by Chefs. This is already ingame.

Please make Magic Find for jewelry and food only.

+1

Fully agreed. Yesterday a guildie was running one of the tough CoE paths and after a few wipes he discovered that the pug was running full MF gear. It didn't exactly contribute to completing the dungeon.

MF gear in GW: I'd rate it a 0/10.

[VanderBeltLegacy]

Arquenya, on 14 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

+1

Fully agreed. Yesterday a guildie was running one of the tough CoE paths and after a few wipes he discovered that the pug was running full MF gear. It didn't exactly contribute to completing the dungeon.

MF gear in GW: I'd rate it a 0/10.

Arquenya, on 14 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

+1

Fully agreed. Yesterday a guildie was running one of the tough CoE paths and after a few wipes he discovered that the pug was running full MF gear. It didn't exactly contribute to completing the dungeon.

MF gear in GW: I'd rate it a 0/10.

bad pugs, i have completed all CoE paths as either 4 man(path3) or 3 man at halfway point(path1/2) as people have either run out of time, or have not liked the fact i told them they need to stand back at pulls/ or i tell them they dont time evade properly and thats why they get hit. what you mention relates nothing to the dungeon being failed, it just sounds like a bad pug group.

[Arquenya]

VanderBeltLegacy, on 14 December 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

What you mention relates nothing to the dungeon being failed, it just sounds like a bad pug group.

Meh. Gimping yourself out of greed is just a horrible game mechanic.

[escada_assassin]

What I think it matters the most in dungeon situations while pugging is not the MF gear or whatever gear they have, but communication and some knowledge about that particular dungeon. I mean I did some dungeons while having green armor and no trinkets. They didn't know, but I did. XD And I noticed that one guy always knows things around and we were all following what he said. Success. With green armor and no trinkets. Doesn't get any worst than that for a player. I don't think MF beats green armor with no trinkets.

[Roybe]

Lesson from this post:  If you want better drops, don't run with a group of min-max-ers.

[madmaxII]

I also think that the current implementation of MF is quiet bad. It doesn't matter in open world PvE where you either play on your own or are a part of zerg where everyone just tries to tag mobs before they die but it is really questionable once you are doing something that requires team work, namely dungeons.
As others have pointed out already you lose a lot of stats by running MF gear which makes your character - and your group as a whole - weaker and slower. There is no point arguing here, as you can easily proof it by looking at the numbers. I have seen some posts in this topic where people are seriously implying that they are skilled enough to compensate the lose of stats but again this can't be true as there is no chance that your character is as strong with MF gear as they would be with "efficient" gear.

Another argument seems to be that the content is already so easy that you can run full MF gear and still beat it. While this is certainly true for some dungeons, you will still slow down your group.
On top of that, keep in mind that the important drops in a dungeon are from the chests and the reward in the end. MF has absolutely no impact here! It only affects the drops of slain enemies and the base chances to find something valuable are so low that it is not worth gimping your character to slightly increase them. In the long run, it is most profitable to rush the chests and the final reward and as MF doesn't help here, it is best to bring the most efficient gear.

That said, I agree that MF shouldn't be available as a stat on your gear, neither armor, nor jewelery, weapons or any any upgrade slots. Boosters, guild banners, guild boosts and the WvW bonus are excellent examples of a good implementation of MF. You can get MF without being forced to weaken your character.

Edited by madmaxII, 14 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[HederaHelix]

I love my MF Set for soloing.  In Groups I use a "proper" set.  I like that Magic Find here is similar to other RPGs that have it.  But its all about choosing when to use it. Taking away that choice would be the wrong part on ANet.  Having the choice among many others is perfectly fine.  Forcing people to play the way you -want- them to is just stupid.  I never do anything people want me to do, and I go just fine. I just realize I have no control over what others do, and thus my problem suddenly goes away because as long as things get done its all good.  The different between MF gear and a DPS set of gear, is minimal at best and with equally skilled players may make less then a minute of difference.

That being said, even if you took MF gear out of the equation, there is nothing stopping me from using Shaman Gear on my Ranger. Not saying I would personally, but it would be the same effect in reducing your effectiveness in a party.

[Trei]

I think its probably best to just restrict what magic-find affects to PvE-only open world content and broadcast the change clearly to all players across multiple channels.

[MazingerZ]

Trei, on 14 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think its probably best to just restrict what magic-find affects to PvE-only open world content and broadcast the change clearly to all players across multiple channels.

Oh, the "I'm too cool for school" posts would be deafening on a Mayan apocalyptic scale.

[sty0pa]

VanderBeltLegacy, on 14 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

wait..no 1 has a second armor set with MF max to the wazoo just for looting?, then switches back to normal gear for combat?, i wouldnt question MF at all, i'd question intelligence of the people who you play with, k thanks

I could be wrong, but
a) you can't switch gear during combat and
loot is determined on the point of enemy death, and 'resides' in the corpse (or chest) until picked.

I didn't think you COULD wear one set of gear, and then swap to MF just for looting/opening chests?

[madmaxII]

sty0pa, on 14 December 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I could be wrong, but
a) you can't switch gear during combat and
loot is determined on the point of enemy death, and 'resides' in the corpse (or chest) until picked.

I didn't think you COULD wear one set of gear, and then swap to MF just for looting/opening chests?

You know that MF has absolutely no impact on chests, right?

[Bloodtau]

jirayasan, on 13 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Magic Find on runes are really bad, people could go with damage runes, tank runes or support runes but instead they go magic find runes. There changes ArenaNet can make to stop it.

- Jewelry Runes - Can be put on necklaces, rings, backs, accessory. 2 ring slots, 1 necklace,1 back and 2 accessory. That's 6 jewelry slots = 1 full rune.

- Food and drinks - Can be made by Chefs. This is already ingame.

Please make Magic Find for jewelry and food only.

Always get players to ping their armour in chat before you take them into a dungeon, I always do.
Anyone running MF gear is told to change it or kicked. Same with lv 80's who are still in green gear (honestly, the moment you turn 80 you can easily afford at least rares)

madmaxII, on 14 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

You know that MF has absolutely no impact on chests, right?

When I have no MF I pretty much always get greens
When I do have MF i always get at least one rare.
Your move.

[HawkofStorms]

Arquenya, on 14 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

+1

Fully agreed. Yesterday a guildie was running one of the tough CoE paths and after a few wipes he discovered that the pug was running full MF gear. It didn't exactly contribute to completing the dungeon.

MF gear in GW: I'd rate it a 0/10.

I've completed several of the difficult dungeon paths in blue/green gear before I got better stuff (and died far less often then my rich friends in better gear in the same run).

MF is not responsible for a bad player playing badly.  Gear grind in this game is very unimportant because most dungeons are all about playerskill.  You get one shotted by AoE anyways no matter what you are wearing.

Edit: @Bloodtau, A.net officially released a statement saying MF doesn't affect chests.  You just are experiencing what is known as the gambler's fallacy.  Ie, superstition.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 14 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[madmaxII]

Bloodtau, on 14 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

When I have no MF I pretty much always get greens
When I do have MF i always get at least one rare.
Your move.

wiki .....


and "at least one rare" has to be an exaggeration.

Edited by madmaxII, 14 December 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[Tregarde]

jirayasan, on 13 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Magic Find on runes are really bad, people could go with damage runes, tank runes or support runes but instead they go magic find runes. There changes ArenaNet can make to stop it.

Runes with Magic Find is an OPTION. Using those runes is a choice. No one is being forced to use runes with Magic Find.

If you don't like high amounts of Magic Find, then chose other upgrades for your gear. Problem solved.

[ViM]

I will play the way I want to play. If you don't like it, go find yourself a guild that plays like you and stop complaining about other players and PUGs.

[Uhhsam]

The way I see it, if someone wants to dictate how others play the game, then that's their problem when it comes to finding a group that will bend to their will.

[madmaxII]

Tregarde, on 14 December 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Runes with Magic Find is an OPTION. Using those runes is a choice. No one is being forced to use runes with Magic Find.

If you don't like high amounts of Magic Find, then chose other upgrades for your gear. Problem solved.

I think you missed the point. Trust me, no one dislikes having high amounts of MF. It only becomes a problem when playing in a group and doing more challenging content as you can't get MF on your gear without sacrificing other stats, i.e. making your character weaker than they could be. In the end you contribute less just to have a slightly higher chance to get better loot which is - as far as team spirit is concerned - a controversial feature.

[Bloodtau]

madmaxII, on 14 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

wiki .....


and "at least one rare" has to be an exaggeration.

wiki is players making assumptions.
As I said, I always get better chest drops when using MF. same as i always get rare dyes and better stuff from the forge