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so other classes are getting speed buff love...


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#1 funkybudda

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

Whether you like it or not, this will have an impact on our class.


elementalists, Necros and Rangers will have their signet changed from 10% to 25%, while mesmers will have an access to a longer swiftness ability:

https://forum-en.gui...ent-Speed/first

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post981272

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post986405


#2 BnJ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Maining a thief myself, I'm all for these changes.

At the very least it should cut down some of the complaints of not being able to catch a thief.

#3 Invoky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Speed buff isnt the reason thf is uncatchable, its the shadowstep/bow teleport combine with stealth.

#4 Sukotto

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

As someone who mains a ranger I am delighted by this, I always thought it was lame how we got a mere 10% and thief got 25% as if they weren't mobile enough. Won't have to bring warhorn all the time now :)

Edited by Sukotto, 14 December 2012 - 02:32 AM.


#5 ensoriki

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:44 AM

Good, some of these classes be slow as a hippo with one leg. Ele didn't really "need" it but whatever.

Edited by ensoriki, 14 December 2012 - 02:45 AM.


#6 realmisr

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:04 AM

Kills the point imo, if there is 1 thing that should be exclusive to thieves, it should be the fastest speed in the game...Mobility does not equal OP, it's the least we can have.

#7 Dahk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

View Postrealmisr, on 14 December 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Kills the point imo, if there is 1 thing that should be exclusive to thieves, it should be the fastest speed in the game...Mobility does not equal OP, it's the least we can have.
The least you can have?  Do stealth and burst count for nothing?  Is thief supposed to be the ONLY mobile class in your eyes?

#8 Psikerlord

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:34 AM

I'm for anything that adds more build variety to the game overall. This ought to help. Hope thieves get some more reason for variety too, mind...

#9 Invoky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:28 AM

View Postrealmisr, on 14 December 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Kills the point imo, if there is 1 thing that should be exclusive to thieves, it should be the fastest speed in the game...Mobility does not equal OP, it's the least we can have.

Thf the only class can do multiple shadowstep/blink in this game, thats the best thing about thf mobile imo.

#10 Symbiont

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:43 AM

why do elementalist need this? they already got something more powerful which is Chill.

#11 Fittleluck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 14 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

why do elementalist need this? they already got something more powerful which is Chill.

Also:
Zephyr's Speed
One with Air
Windborne Dagger
Lightning Flash
Signet of Air
Ride the Lightning

And that's before their swiftness skills. I SAY WATSON, THEY SEEM TO NEED MORE SPEED.

#12 adra12

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

If this change to elementalists gets at least 1 to want to waste a slot skill on that signet then I love it. They have so many other sources of speed at or above 25% that it would be wasting a very useful skill slot to take it.

But Ranger and Necro both need this. Though I don't see how it will fit on my necros bar either.

Edited by adra12, 14 December 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#13 Reisa

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

Keep in mind that most of those signets with the new traits have really sucky or pointless activations (especially ranger and necro signet activations) while the thief's signet of shadows is still crazy good.

I doubt most ele's will even notice the change, though they may put it on their underwater bars, I guess.

#14 Touche

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

Thieves whining about other classes getting nerfs. :lol:

#15 jthamind

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

i main a thief and an elem, and i definitely do NOT think an elem needs any sort of speed buff. and overall, i agree with realmisr, one of the points of a thief is that they're supposed to be more mobile and quicker than any other class. i don't think other classes need to be on their level for that, especially when most classes have speed boons anyways.

#16 Korra

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

Almost all the classes noted there can keep permaswiftness by one way or another. The only way to get swiftness with a thief is traiting it to dodge or Thrill of the crime.

This is lame, atleast give us some way to keep swiftness as the other classes can.

#17 Wifflebottom

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

View PostKorra, on 14 December 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Almost all the classes noted there can keep permaswiftness by one way or another. The only way to get swiftness with a thief is traiting it to dodge or Thrill of the crime.

This is lame, atleast give us some way to keep swiftness as the other classes can.
Good to see you know your class's traits:
Hard to Catch and Assassin's Retreat also grant swiftness

Various runes that grant swiftness

You have access to 5 skills that grant stealth 2 traits that grant stealth, a trait that increases stealth, and a trait that increases speed when stealthed.

Thieves have plenty of ways to escape, you don't need perma swiftness too.

Edited by Mr_Original, 14 December 2012 - 11:25 PM.


#18 Korra

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostMr_Original, on 14 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Good to see you know your class's traits:
Hard to Catch and Assassin's Retreat also grant swiftness

Various runes that grant swiftness

You have access to 5 skills that grant stealth 2 traits that grant stealth, a trait that increases stealth, and a trait that increases speed when stealthed.

Thieves have plenty of ways to escape, you don't need perma swiftness too.

Assasins retreat doesn't go work well with travel/kite/catch topic. Just saying

And Hard to catch is situational.

Before going all rambo againts my post maybe u should undertsand that i was mentioning the only sources of swiftness i can apply for myself.

Second, "various runes grant swiftness", this one of the most worthless arrguments i have ever seen, do i have to spec a rune set only to get swiftness when an ele can just press 4 buttons and get perma swiftness? or what about an engi that with1 triat can keep swiftness up.

"I have 5 skills that grant me stealth" How many of them can i put in 1 build? and what are the cd? (it's a retorical question, in case you didn't get that)

All the traits are situational, really don't even try. And wow a trait that increase my speed by 33% with a 33% cap while in stealth (most of them last 3-4 secs)

Thieves have plenty ways to escape. yes. That's true. But that's how we survive, necros, eles, and ranger have other ways to survive and giving them the same speed as a thief is completly bullshit.

Thieves are supposed to be the fastest class and now even necros will be faster. What a shame.

#19 Wifflebottom

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:49 AM

View PostKorra, on 14 December 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

Assasins retreat doesn't go work well with travel/kite/catch topic. Just saying

And Hard to catch is situational.

Before going all rambo againts my post maybe u should undertsand that i was mentioning the only sources of swiftness i can apply for myself.

Second, "various runes grant swiftness", this one of the most worthless arrguments i have ever seen, do i have to spec a rune set only to get swiftness when an ele can just press 4 buttons and get perma swiftness? or what about an engi that with1 triat can keep swiftness up.

"I have 5 skills that grant me stealth" How many of them can i put in 1 build? and what are the cd? (it's a retorical question, in case you didn't get that)

All the traits are situational, really don't even try. And wow a trait that increase my speed by 33% with a 33% cap while in stealth (most of them last 3-4 secs)

Thieves have plenty ways to escape. yes. That's true. But that's how we survive, necros, eles, and ranger have other ways to survive and giving them the same speed as a thief is completly bullshit.

Thieves are supposed to be the fastest class and now even necros will be faster. What a shame.
Why is it bullshit? Are you just saying it's bull because you play a thief and want to be faster, stronger, and sneakier then everyone else? That's bull. Necros are incredibly slow right now and their way of mitigating damage is fearing or eating attacks with death shroud. To avoid damage thieves can teleport away assuming you're using shortbow, use skills to gain evasion while doing damage (disabling shot and deathblossom), or go into stealth. Oh and answering your 'retorical' question: you can have 3 stealth skills equipped and still have a good build, one costs 6 ini with a 3 sec duration, 3 sec stealth heal 30 cd, and 3 sec AoE stealth 60 cd. Of course you already know this but you want to have something to complain about. You're not getting a speed increase because you already have more than enough ways to get around quickly which is ultimately the whole point of swiftness and you are already very fast. Necros are slow as hell and Rangers are lame all around any buffs for speed is okay in my book, it's not like the signet speed boost is going to be a 200% boost it's probably going to be 25% just like sig of shadows. But I do agree that Ele doesn't need the speed increase.

#20 Excidium

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:15 AM

An ele or necro with those signets on their bar are helping you by not having something immensely more useful instead. And rangers desperately need anything that makes their selection of utility skills less terrible.

Since thieves didn't get nerfed on this patch, I guess it's only natural to complain others got buffed.

#21 FoxBat

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:35 AM

Signet of shadows + shortbow spam is already on par with perma swiftness. You can mess with traits/runes if you want to take it even further. Not sure why thief needs any more help here.

#22 Dahk

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:33 AM

View PostKorra, on 14 December 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

Assasins retreat doesn't go work well with travel/kite/catch topic. Just saying

And Hard to catch is situational.

Before going all rambo againts my post maybe u should undertsand that i was mentioning the only sources of swiftness i can apply for myself.

Second, "various runes grant swiftness", this one of the most worthless arrguments i have ever seen, do i have to spec a rune set only to get swiftness when an ele can just press 4 buttons and get perma swiftness? or what about an engi that with1 triat can keep swiftness up.

"I have 5 skills that grant me stealth" How many of them can i put in 1 build? and what are the cd? (it's a retorical question, in case you didn't get that)

All the traits are situational, really don't even try. And wow a trait that increase my speed by 33% with a 33% cap while in stealth (most of them last 3-4 secs)

Thieves have plenty ways to escape. yes. That's true. But that's how we survive, necros, eles, and ranger have other ways to survive and giving them the same speed as a thief is completly bullshit.

Thieves are supposed to be the fastest class and now even necros will be faster. What a shame.

Runes are perfectly viable if you're really concerned about swiftness.  Perma-swiftness will pretty much always come at a cost, whether it's having to equip a certain skill or investing in certain traits.  If I want perma-swiftness on my ranger, I can only do this with either centaur runes and a warhorn offhand or with 30 runes of the pack, a 30 point investment into Nature Magic, and a warhorn offhand and we're supposed to be a highly mobile class.

That being said, thiefs are plenty mobile without perma-swiftness.

Should an ele be able to keep up swiftness more than a thief?  Well considering that they're wearing cloth and can't stealth, I'd say that's fair, lol.

#23 Alaroxr

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:40 AM

So... screw Guardians? It was hard enough to keep up with most Professions before.

Edited by Alaroxr, 16 December 2012 - 06:42 AM.


#24 stabbystabstab

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

They are really going out of their way to gimp sword builds.

It'd make sense if ANET has any plans to nerf builds with perma-swiftness and replace it with a 25% move speed at the cost of one util slot, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

#25 Mitch

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

It's pretty funny that thieves complain about other professions getting buffs to some movement speed skills (most of which aren't even used) while weapon swapping from inventory just got disabled negatively effecting EVERY profession EXCEPT thieves' ability to move around the map quickly.

TLDR: Thieves mobility compared to other classes got buffed, not nerfed.

#26 Wanna Go To heaven

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

View PostMitch, on 19 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

It's pretty funny that thieves complain about other professions getting buffs to some movement speed skills (most of which aren't even used) while weapon swapping from inventory just got disabled negatively effecting EVERY profession EXCEPT thieves' ability to move around the map quickly.

TLDR: Thieves mobility compared to other classes got buffed, not nerfed.

This so much

View PostExcidium, on 16 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

An ele or necro with those signets on their bar are helping you by not having something immensely more useful instead. And rangers desperately need anything that makes their selection of utility skills less terrible.

Since thieves didn't get nerfed on this patch, I guess it's only natural to complain others got buffed.

Quoted for truth. The ele one is useless, no one runs it. The necro on is subpar, 7-% of other utilities are a lot better

View PostFoxBat, on 16 December 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

Signet of shadows + shortbow spam is already on par with perma swiftness. You can mess with traits/runes if you want to take it even further. Not sure why thief needs any more help here.


#27 The Shadow

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

I think it's retarded Ele got a speed buff, as though they weren't mobile enough. Necro/ Ranger fair doos.

We do now move 50% faster in stealth though yipee.

I think perma-swiftness is an issue, I also think 25% move speed increase on pretty much every single class except for Guardian is an issue. I mean what's the point? The signets to me are either made redundant by another class' mechanic.. unfair.. or just a waste of a utility slot.

I think maybe Anet should just increase natural run speed of all classes and remove these signets all-together. Maybe let Thief have a 5-10% increase signet/ trait or something as they were intended to be the most agile of classes.

Edited by The Shadow, 19 December 2012 - 11:02 PM.


#28 Mitch

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 19 December 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

I think it's retarded Ele got a speed buff, as though they weren't mobile enough. Necro/ Ranger fair doos.

The ele skill is fairly useless, any ele that takes it is essentially gimping themselves by not taking a more useful utility skill, they are mobile enough alrdy as you said.


Quote

I think perma-swiftness is an issue, I also think 25% move speed increase on pretty much every single class except for Guardian is an issue. I mean what's the point? The signets to me are either made redundant by another class' mechanic.. unfair.. or just a waste of a utility slot.

I think maybe Anet should just increase natural run speed of all classes and remove these signets all-together. Maybe let Thief have a 5-10% increase signet/ trait or something as they were intended to be the most agile of classes.

That's an interesting point, it's worth discussing further, I do think it has some merit as removing the weapon swap made some professions (mainly mesmer, necro and guardian) fall very far behind engineers, eles and thieves in terms of getting around the map quickly.

It also makes it worth considering to completely redo the warhorn skills as atm it's not really ever worth to run it (on warrior, necro and to a lesser extent ranger) in spvp.

#29 Elysen

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 14 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

why do elementalist need this? they already got something more powerful which is Chill.

Be glad you're not a guardian, who suffer from no perma movement speed increase, nor any cripples/chills :P

This was coming for a long time, but the speed bonus isn't the main mobility of a thief. what really counts has already been said in the thread.




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