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What WvW advanced strategies/tactics do you wish people would try?


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#1 Azilyi

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

Let's turn this topic on its head, shall we?  All we hear about is "Zergs suck".

Let's talk seriously about what kind of strategy/tactics YOU would like to see deployed.  No nay-sayers please.  If it's "Too complicated to work", then it definitely belongs in this thread.

Example 1: A group of 5 engineers all equipping mortar to attack a tower.  Using the heal to keep attackers up, and the attacks to keep players off the top of the wall.

Example 2: A group of 4 elementalists and a mesmer, start casting "Churning Earth" just before a portal gets put up on an enemy zerg.  They hit "F" and get 4x churns stacked on the same spot when they pass through.

Example 3: Underwater fighting.  Set up a trebuchet on the center island of a Borderlands, and defend it with a troupe of skilled mesmers capable of large amounts of underwater combat experience.

Edit:  Also - if you have any great plans/tactics that you're proud of having pulled off, let's hear them!

Edited by Azilyi, 13 December 2012 - 11:09 PM.


#2 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

Hammer Guardians actually using ring of warding on exit portals like they should. But they don't, because most people don't know how amazing that skill is at ruining portal bombing, so they just continue to QQ about portals.

#3 Bloodtau

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

A good tactic seems to be : See the zerg, change maps

#4 Dark

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:14 AM

Listen to commander, too advanced for SBI :D

#5 Beastgate

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:39 AM

Playing WvW seems to be too advanced a strategy for most.

#6 Stinky Garbage

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:40 AM

Don't get high on your own supply.  Take theirs before every siege.

It's not really an advanced tactic.  I just wanted to make the Scarface ref.

#7 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:41 AM

View PostDark, on 14 December 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

Listen to commander, too advanced for SBI :D

Just because someone buys a pvp tag with gold from pve doesn't mean they are strategic, or have any knowledge of WvW.

No offense, but the sheer stupidity of some of the commanders on SBI was why I left that server. some of them (Not WM or SF) would just lead the entire zerg on random goose chases on supply camps, and even quaggans while we lost towers and keeps (due to no defensive siege being placed).

SBI was good once, but now they are full of Lions arch commanders who expect people to follow them because they played the Trading post and have a grand total of 100 wvw kills.

Edited by DreadlockrastaGW, 14 December 2012 - 02:44 AM.


#8 lollasaurus

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

Portal bombing and killing everything in sight works so I guess we'll stick to that

#9 Azilyi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:49 AM

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 14 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Hammer Guardians actually using ring of warding on exit portals like they should. But they don't, because most people don't know how amazing that skill is at ruining portal bombing, so they just continue to QQ about portals.

I really like this idea.  If you got two guards to do it one after the other... Ragecage :)

#10 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:53 AM

View PostAzilyi, on 14 December 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I really like this idea.  If you got two guards to do it one after the other... Ragecage :)

It is insanely effective, had it done on me, and it was the reason I craft leveled a guardian the next week. Just have to be on top of your game, and look for signs of an incoming portal bomb.

#11 Obscure One

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:08 AM

Barring the notion that micro strats are, in GW2, far to complex to function without groups dedicated to practicing them over and over and over and over, there are a few neat micros out there that could be used in some theoretical WvW in an alternate dimension where people favor complex strategy revolving around player skill instead of sheer zergtastic numbers. That being said, since the idea of Guardian micro strategy is being tossed around, here's my favorite:
  • Door blocking Guardian ward chaining: With a party of 5 guardians with the tier 2 +20% faster cool down with two-handed weapons trait, a party of five Guardians can indefinitely prevent entry through a fallen keep door by chaining the use of the Hammer and Staff wards. Combine this with chaining utilities like Wall of Reflection and Sanctuary, and there may as well always be a door up at your keep.


#12 Siphaed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

One tactic that I'd love to see is split force attacking:

1) at a tower, put 1/2 forces on cats on a side wall; while other 1/2 forces are on rams at the door. Both continue their objective, whether or not the other completes theirs.

2) At a keep/garrison, groups split between different doors on opposite sides, or near-opposite sides, so that as to split the defenders.
ex. @ bay, they could build catapults on one side of the outter courtyard, and on the other side of the north bridge they build trebs.  two groups defending two different siege objectives, yet still a common goal of killing the enemy and stealing their stuff.


I almost never, ever see this happen because people just try to cluster-shuck zerg everything without deviating from the group.  By splitting forces, it challenges the enemy to do the same.

#13 Hennet

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:09 AM

Less zerging, more small scale pushes on many different objectives

#14 lioka qiao

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

I'd like it if people just figured out what kind of game they're playing when they go into wvw.  It is a war simulation between 3 forces, not just a kill map like you find in halo or world of warcraft.

I'd like to see small group tactics
  • Camp Flipping, Yak Smacking with 2 or more small teams  (3-5 people).  This is important for ensuring your server's domination on all battlefields so don't just shrug it off like you're doing nothing.
  • Ambush teams (10 people) covering key choke points, either delaying reinforcements or taking out small enemy forces.


#15 coronbale

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

View Postlioka qiao, on 14 December 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I'd like it if people just figured out what kind of game they're playing when they go into wvw.  It is a war simulation between 3 forces, not just a kill map like you find in halo or world of warcraft.

I'd like to see small group tactics
  • Camp Flipping, Yak Smacking with 2 or more small teams  (3-5 people).  This is important for ensuring your server's domination on all battlefields so don't just shrug it off like you're doing nothing.
  • Ambush teams (10 people) covering key choke points, either delaying reinforcements or taking out small enemy forces.
Nice man, you lookin for a new server?  SoS could definitely use more players who know what the big picture is, and are willing to be a part of something outside of their own pew pew!

Think about it, here's my card!

#16 Azilyi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:28 PM

View Postlioka qiao, on 14 December 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I'd like it if people just figured out what kind of game they're playing when they go into wvw.  It is a war simulation between 3 forces, not just a kill map like you find in halo or world of warcraft.

I'd like to see small group tactics
  • Camp Flipping, Yak Smacking with 2 or more small teams  (3-5 people).  This is important for ensuring your server's domination on all battlefields so don't just shrug it off like you're doing nothing.
  • Ambush teams (10 people) covering key choke points, either delaying reinforcements or taking out small enemy forces.

Covering choke points is such a huge part of EB and the BLs, it's unbelievable how little they're actually regarded by the commanders.

The south-eastern entrance to ogre camp in EB was where we tried this once.  We held the ogres, so we defended their camp and just raided Umberglade whenever the ogre NPCs spawned to attack.  There is a bridge hanging over the pass, and a small door to the right which were the only ways into the encampment.

When they eventually came, we had mortar and arrow carts set up on the bridge and our melee attackers at the door.

A small group of 10 held their zerg there for some time, although we were eventually overrun--the main flaw being that we had no way to claim their dead when they fell (at the bottom slope of the hill).

Portal bombs are the obvious bane of chokepoints.  The guardian suggestion earlier really helps correct this though.  It is generally pretty easy to spot a mesmer coming through a single hole in a wall.

Portal goes up.
Guardian goes in.
GG :)

#17 Heru

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostObscure One, on 14 December 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

Barring the notion that micro strats are, in GW2, far to complex to function without groups dedicated to practicing them over and over and over and over, there are a few neat micros out there that could be used in some theoretical WvW in an alternate dimension where people favor complex strategy revolving around player skill instead of sheer zergtastic numbers. That being said, since the idea of Guardian micro strategy is being tossed around, here's my favorite:
  • Door blocking Guardian ward chaining: With a party of 5 guardians with the tier 2 +20% faster cool down with two-handed weapons trait, a party of five Guardians can indefinitely prevent entry through a fallen keep door by chaining the use of the Hammer and Staff wards. Combine this with chaining utilities like Wall of Reflection and Sanctuary, and there may as well always be a door up at your keep.
And one guardian putting down Hallowed Ground in front of it, a mesmer with blink and portal, or any kind of stability immediately counters it...

#18 Vihar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

Show up.

  Just show the "kittens" up.

#19 Piteous

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

What's WvW?

#20 Bloodtau

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostNotKMoose, on 14 December 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

Portal bombing and killing everything in sight works so I guess we'll stick to that

Better get some new tactics though, portal will be getting nerfed soon.

#21 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

Tactics? Stick with a zerg.

#22 matsif

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

I'd like to see more 5-10 man "camps" at choke points with lots of aoe/siege to break up the zerg, but as a tactic its not going to work.  any "advanced tactic/strategy" has to be able to keep up with the current meta to be relatively effective.  In order to have enough dps to take out the zerg, you need a zerg yourself.  So, any small group tactic using terrain/ambushes to reduce the effectiveness of a zerg isn't going to work.

I guess I'd like to try a 5-10 man stealthy commando team that follow's an enemy zerg to pick off stragglers as they fall behind/are coming to join the group, but even then the communication required for this to work correctly in my mind would be more than I have available at my disposal.

#23 Naskapi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

A few crazy tactics that might only really play well during the weekend begining of the match when these things matter:
  • Invisible Yaks. - A team of thiefs/mesmers escorting a yak through large amounts of enemies by chain stealth
  • Plasma stacking. - Before portal bombing have the ranger forage for plasma then mesmer eats it and copies all boons to everyone else with other mesmers boosting the duration.
  • Barrier fears - Use the guardian door blocking method but have a bunch of necros lay down fears. Could be good for SM lord defense.


#24 Azilyi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostNaskapi, on 14 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

A few crazy tactics that might only really play well during the weekend begining of the match when these things matter:
  • Invisible Yaks. - A team of thiefs/mesmers escorting a yak through large amounts of enemies by chain stealth
  • Plasma stacking. - Before portal bombing have the ranger forage for plasma then mesmer eats it and copies all boons to everyone else with other mesmers boosting the duration.
  • Barrier fears - Use the guardian door blocking method but have a bunch of necros lay down fears. Could be good for SM lord defense.

I've actually seen a guild do the invisible yak thing in our EB.  Tarnished Coast Field Medics (TCFM) is a TC guild that seemed wholly committed to having an all-thief guild.  Before they fixed stealthed thieves from preventing supply caps, they used to just sit at golanta, and stay perma-stealthed when a zerg tried to cap it.

Now that it's fixed, I have seen them once or twice defending the yaks and giving them perma-stealth.  I imagine any small-group silly enough to try to kill the yak may find themselves with a face full of knife :P

#25 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostNaskapi, on 14 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

  • Barrier fears - Use the guardian door blocking method but have a bunch of necros lay down fears. Could be good for SM lord defense.

One of the tactics I use on my necro haha, you need to be on the roof of garrison with some arrow carts, and all you do is fear people trying to get up there. I want to get a group of like 4-5 necros chain fearing, because I eventually get overwhelmed by myself, but everyone is too busy being mindless zerglings.

You would be amazed how OP a fear off that spot where you need to jump to get on top of garrison keep lord can be.

#26 Farron

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

Zergs are not bad, but they only work in very limited situations. The big problem with zerging is that you nearly always over commit your forces. The golden rule is that you should only use just enough manpower and supply to safely take an objective. You should never overkill. The excess forces need to be distributed elsewhere so you can accomplish something else simultaneously.

You don't ever need 50 people to take an undefended supply camp, or defend an upgraded, pre sieged tower. The whole reason why you upgrade stuff is so you can hold it with very few people and everyone else can be elsewhere on the map.

If you roll around in a 50 man Zerg, the counter to that is really easy if you have the comm structure to split your team up into small teams. You just cap, hold and upgrade more things simultaneously than an enemy Zerg can. Eventually they will roll up to a tower they can't take because they have no access to nearby supply camps, they cant drop rams (because there are arrow carts behind the gate) and they cant drop cats because the defensive treb in the tower can kill all long range siege.

Having lots of small teams all over the map working towards a common goal is also good for scouting, as long as the small teams report in their movements/numbers and enemy movements/numbers. Its much easier to spot stealth cat/golem teams.

Its easy to complain about zergs but its harder to get away from zerg mentality. Zergs are really easy to form up, harder to divide down and even harder to reform once they have split apart. You need pretty decent comm structure and alot of people that understand WvW basics. It takes time and repetition to drill the basics so they become second nature - things like refreshing siege weapons when you are nearby, always finding opportunities to grab 10 supply, self creating 5 man teams and using them to assist larger forces autonomously (i.e. for cutting off reinforcements, ganking yaks to objectives under siege etc), good siege spots etc.

But the most important thing is to cultivate an atmosphere in voice chat/team chat that encourages people to be creative and try new things without fear of making mistakes. You can't get mad at people for doing things wrong. You have to talk to your team with concision and encourage them to do the same to you. Always be polite and always try to set the example. Identify the problem and propose a solution to the problem. It is an iterative process where failure is just another stepping stone to success. If your team understands this, they will have no fear.

I don't like highly structuring small man teams. I like gank squads and I'm building one myself but you can't rely on structured teams in WvW with specific class composition, traits, weapon sets and utilities etc. These can only exist for a short time before a key player needs to log out and then the team is broken until you can find an exact replacement.

This is exactly like my experience of Guild Wars 1 GvG, which was very highly structured. Unfortunately, my GvG experience was largely one of waiting for things to happen - for the right people to log in with the right builds. Then to wait for a match and lose. Someone rage quits and your team build is broken again. WvW thankfully doesn't have to be like that.

Its better to focus on your disorganized element which is the overwhelming majority of players in WvW. Pubbies are an absolutely HUGE part of WvW strength in every tier I have played in. Unfortunately, they are often neglected by players that stick too much to their private voice comms. Its no wonder people zerg when they have no sense of purpose, direction and unity. Zerging is the easiest way to give people purpose, direction and unity in the absense of players who attempt to exert control over their disorganized, disconnected players.

Edited by Farron, 14 December 2012 - 11:37 PM.


#27 fathamburger

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:39 AM

Fantastic post OP, and I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the same possibilities where the meta hasn't even begun. That is.. if the players want to actually try, listen and break away from the zerg model. I'm definitely playing cards close to my chest on this one, have some proven combos and other more speculative and I've been collecting ideas where I've seen them for awhile.

I will say though that if the meta caps out at what we have now, portal bombing, gank squads and zerging even in february I think I'm just gonna end up retiring. I've played enough of this meta as it is

#28 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

Just in case people don't know, Eles with focuses can use swirling winds to block any projectile siege (trebs, catas). If you have 3 eles you can stop ranged siege completely

#29 Azilyi

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

View Postfathamburger, on 15 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Fantastic post OP, and I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the same possibilities where the meta hasn't even begun. That is.. if the players want to actually try, listen and break away from the zerg model. I'm definitely playing cards close to my chest on this one, have some proven combos and other more speculative and I've been collecting ideas where I've seen them for awhile.

I will say though that if the meta caps out at what we have now, portal bombing, gank squads and zerging even in february I think I'm just gonna end up retiring. I've played enough of this meta as it is

Thanks!  Im just as dissatisfied with 'the zerg' as it is which was the main inspiration for starting this post.  I've recently started playing with a group of players that seem to share my interest in exploring new ways to play.  That is to say, we're not trying to revolutionize the way zergs work, but rather how to make it fun for us to enjoy also.  So far, I've found a lot of great ideas from this thread that I will definitely be talking over with my crew to see if its something they think might work.

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 15 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Just in case people don't know, Eles with focuses can use swirling winds to block any projectile siege (trebs, catas). If you have 3 eles you can stop ranged siege completely

My group started as a group of 3 elementalists, a guardian and a thief.  This is a very, very handy piece of knowledge for anyone else who might be reading.  It works very well--tried and tested.  Three elementalists block shots, the other 2 run supply to repair the wall.

Edited by Azilyi, 15 December 2012 - 02:30 AM.


#30 Impmon

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:41 AM

At QL people set up all this seige in front when the entire back of the keep is open.  You can pull people quite easily off with temporal curtain as they man siege on the inside.  With one other warrior assisting me we pretty much decimated the defenders,pulling them down and killing them.  You CAN also set up seige on this side and hit defenders.

edit - same with mendon's gap.

Edited by Impmon, 16 December 2012 - 11:42 AM.





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