41 replies to this topic

[Scizzor]

See, the problem with wards is you can roll over them. They aren't that great. Sure you can catch noobs. But anyone that knows the mechanics can simply roll out making wards a joke.

Edited by Scizzor, 16 December 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[Krill]

I'd love to see a strike team of about 15-20 guardians, decent players with the right gear and builds, and playing really aggressively. Basically the whole group would have retaliation, stability, and a large might stack 100% of the time, most conditions would be instantly converted to buffs, plus all the healing...not so sure any size zerg could take them down without ballistas.

[citypigeon]

Tactic: communication.

I'm not part of an active guild yet.. I don't have pvp-interested friends, but I like to do WvW. And when I enter the battlegrounds alone, the easiest thing for me to do is to follow commanders and zergs. Because I hardly see coordination for anything else in the map chats, which is pretty disappointing.

I would have more initiative if I understood WvW mechanics better, but I find it overwhelming to figure out when I'm just by myself, and everyone I see at waypoints is just sprinting off to different directions, and no one is saying anything interesting in chats other than "SBI invaders are at so and so" (so go run there by yourself and get killed). For me, and maybe others, this lack of comradery takes away the excitement of going back to WvW and becoming more experienced..

It'd be great if experienced players could be more pro-active and coordinated through map-chats that can invite players to not overcrowd zergs. Communicate and rally players to "choke key spots" or whatever it is you guys say is more effective than zerg orgies.. I have no idea. Work with your server =) not just your guild, or 5-man pow-wow, and then perhaps we can tap untouched potential?

Edited by citypigeon, 02 January 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[DreadlockrastaGW]

citypigeon, on 02 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Tactic: communication.

I'm not part of an active guild yet.. I don't have pvp-interested friends, but I like to do WvW. And when I enter the battlegrounds alone, the easiest thing for me to do is to follow commanders and zergs. Because I hardly see coordination for anything else in the map chats, which is pretty disappointing.

I would have more initiative if I understood WvW mechanics better, but I find it overwhelming to figure out when I'm just by myself, and everyone I see at waypoints is just sprinting off to different directions, and no one is saying anything interesting in chats other than "SBI invaders are at so and so" (so go run there by yourself and get killed). For me, and maybe others, this lack of comradery takes away the excitement of going back to WvW and becoming more experienced..

It'd be great if experienced players could be more pro-active and coordinated through map-chats that can invite players to not overcrowd zergs. Communicate and rally players to "choke key spots" or whatever it is you guys say is more effective than zerg orgies.. I have no idea. Work with your server =) not just your guild, or 5-man pow-wow, and then perhaps we can tap untouched potential?

Most top tier servers have "server teamspeaks", which is why not many people talk in chat. just ask in teamchat. As for the WvW mechanics, play for a week and you will get the basic stuff eventually.

[Waage83]

How to hit and run.

This is hard to do in non voice groups, but good hit and run attacks is devastating damage to an enemy zerg. Zerg's move in a very predictable way so if you time it right you can hit them right in the middle and plow through and murder half of them before they are ready.

Edited by Waage83, 04 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[lioka qiao]

2 days ago I was leading a zerg on dragonbrand against darkhaven (yes i know... names, but this is praise) and near the end of the night we just capped arah's (whatever the name of the quarry is there) and found a few of them.  We gave chase back out towards the garrison and...  BAM.  They were all waiting on the mountain to ambush us.  The few we chased were bait.   They completely destroyed my zerg.  I was impressed that they managed to pull that off.

Goes to show that ambush tactics can be effective even in large forces.  I now defintely support the use of ambush tactics in WvW.

[Wotah]

Are you sure it was an ambush or just happenstance?  I've seen that many of times, but more often than not it is by complete accident.

One thing I like is knowing where everyone is on the map.  We had a group of us being chased by a zerg coming out of NW supply toward garrison sentry, we ran through the minotaurs.  We knew that the other server we were against was on North Bay doors.  We ran our group straight into and through that group, making the other two factions attack each other.   We went back to NW supply to try and cap.

It was all good fun.  

[Obbdot]

Krill, on 18 December 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

I'd love to see a strike team of about 15-20 guardians, decent players with the right gear and builds, and playing really aggressively. Basically the whole group would have retaliation, stability, and a large might stack 100% of the time, most conditions would be instantly converted to buffs, plus all the healing...not so sure any size zerg could take them down without ballistas.

Our guild Applied Tactics [ATac] does something in those lines in Sea of Sorrows. It is as effective as you imagine it to be. We try to have at least 5, but when we have 2 squads of 5 stacking plus a mix of other professions running around them, its a massacre. It's not perfect or unkillable, but we can hold zergs with smaller numbers for a long time before they manage to spike enough damage to take even one of the guardians down. Guardians can't be alone though, because they could be ignored by smart opponents. They must have a mix of other professions around them to assist.

If you want to try this, join our server and guild, you'd be welcome there. You can check the SoS community forum to have a better feel of our server and guilds. http://www.sea-of-sorrows.com  // http://applied-tactics.com

Edited by Obbdot, 05 January 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Kreen]

What I would like to see more of is the basics of open field battle tactics being applied. There is a reason a lot of skills get bonuses for flanking etc. There is also a reason why combo fields work best in teams with multiple professions being deployed.

There is far too much navel gazing on 5 man single profession teams for my liking and when I see those being applied in open field warfare I just laugh. Sure, a 5 man guardian team speced properly with some support has its place in some scenarios and a hammer warrior vanguard can be awesome at breaking thru a zerg but some folks need to realise that the basics such as pinning, flanking, feighting, punching thru and reversing with a solid combined arms team etc will trump special team builds when executed well.

Please can we see more of this. Get your training focussed on getting your teams to learn how to play open field well rather than dream up more specialist meta teams. Personally its the open field warfare aspect that I always enjoy the most in all these sort of games and it would provide me with alot more enjoyment to have all servers who know how to fight open field I am being selfish I know. I include my server in this sentiment.

Edited by Kreen, 05 January 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[ItsOnlyVic]

Kreen, on 05 January 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

What I would like to see more of is the basics of open field battle tactics being applied. There is a reason a lot of skills get bonuses for flanking etc. There is also a reason why combo fields work best in teams with multiple professions being deployed.

There is far too much navel gazing on 5 man single profession teams for my liking and when I see those being applied in open field warfare I just laugh. Sure, a 5 man guardian team speced properly with some support has its place in some scenarios and a hammer warrior vanguard can be awesome at breaking thru a zerg but some folks need to realise that the basics such as pinning, flanking, feighting, punching thru and reversing with a solid combined arms team etc will trump special team builds when executed well.

Please can we see more of this. Get your training focussed on getting your teams to learn how to play open field well rather than dream up more specialist meta teams. Personally its the open field warfare aspect that I always enjoy the most in all these sort of games and it would provide me with alot more enjoyment to have all servers who know how to fight open field I am being selfish I know. I include my server in this sentiment.

Atac may have their "turtle balls", but at Strike Force we enjoy turtle soup . Joking aside, I agree all servers need to work on communication and creating tighter zergs. More often than not stragglers give away positions, golems, etc. It's a minor thing but can be improved.

My personal tactic (when I'm running a havoc squad) is to run opposite of the main Strike Force group. As they encounter the main zerg we hit the backlines. Doing so causes confusion and prompts the question, "Uh are they still rendering?". After the intial 4-10 seconds of hitting the backline I have generally found the enemy commander and my squad is on him. That's a snippet of what I enjoy doing in open field combat.

I would like to see more tactical retreats. Not just, "Oh wow that's alot of them cya guys I'll let y'all die." Slowly pull back and occupy their attention. Divert their forces and stay together.

Those are a few things that I'd like to share...everything else you just have to see on the battlefield

[asmodess]

People always try to zerg and use the mentality that zerging works, and the other side zergs so we are too .

  But you don`t need overwhelming numbers to win , infact  small scale hit and run tactics , deception and diversion tactics  to capture key targets before the timer counts points is better .


  Like have a 5 - 10 man group act as a rearguard patrolling  your backline  supply camps recaping, killing sentry, enemy doylaks and hunting down enemy raider attacking the camps .

  Then send  couple 5 men groups up behind their backlines  raiding their supply, every now and then attacking a tower, as a diversion setting up a treb etc  and hitting a tower wall etc , you could even take the tower , use hit and run tactics  the goal isn`t to hold the camp but drain them of supply ,  and tie up a larger force trying to stop you .

  By having skrimshers doing hit and run attacks on their supply , you  do 3 things , you drain them of resources ie supply,  you split up his  zerg into smaller more manageable size and you cause him to  waste time chasing you around the map , attacking towers now and then as a diversion or a ninja , divides his forces yet again , if they don`t divide and try and roll as a zerg even better .

Then you set up 2 main attack groups , working together along with the skrimsher groups , to deceive and attack multiple targets  while one of the attack groups attacks the main target objective . this forces the enemy to decide what to defend , as most of the  time they can`t defend 3 targets at the same time ,at the very least you`ll get 1 of the targets which is fine .

Sadly tho most have no grasp of small scale tactics and see the game as a  we need to capture the entire map with a zerg to win , when you really don`t , the game is objective point based , all you need to do is  drain him of resources , split up his forces , and capture key objectives  before points are tallied thus gaining points and if he retakes it fine , just do it again before points are tallied and deny him points by taking it  so points are counted before he can take it back .

[RivenTheValorous]

Being a commander and having worked very hard to get my guild to the tactical level we have, I'd rather not tip my hat for all of our trade secrets. A lot of these strategies basically require a common VoIP or being a single guild to accomplish. More or less, many things that you'd like to do involve what professions your guild has. If you have a lot of Elementalists then you will play very different from the guild with a lot of Guardians. Because of this, it gives every force out there its own feel and strategy. The sheer fact that there are different guilds running with different tendencies changes the meta more than any updates that ANet throws at us.

This game is evolving more than most people think. On reset last week, we had 40 people from my guild in TS3 coordinating into premade squads based around role and profession. Most people would see this as a zerg and write it off for killing based on sheer size of force, but "sponsored" builds that we use as a guide for most classes and tactful, concise communication enables ruthless efficiency. You can roll in a large force while still being increasingly mobile, especially with good communication. Zerg has a negative connotation especially when it is applied to an organized force. If you see 40 of the same guild tag, you are probably in a heap of trouble. When your guild can be effective with a 15-man group and you up that to a 30-40 man group, your opponents are in trouble.

Outside of builds and communication, utilizing your unguilded players and smaller guilds also creates an environment where larger guilds don't have to split up to perform smaller tasks. Basic things like explaining strategy to people that aren't in your guild, making sure everyone has supply, clear upgrade order, siege placement, supply management. If you do those things well, numbers are a secondary thought. If you do all of these things with organization, builds, siege, supply, upgrades, mobility, defense, and then you still have numbers on top of it: you are next to unstoppable.