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Idea for 3rd Heavy Armor Profession

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#1 Gerroh


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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

I'm a big fan of symmetry, so it slightly(only slightly) irks me that there are two heavy armor professions, while light and medium both have three each.
So I was thinking what could a heavy armor profession do that isn't already being done, and is different from warrur and guardian while still feeling like it should wear heavy armor?
Well, my name for it(and really, the name could be anything that fits, it's just a name) is the "Trooper".(inb4 "Commando!")

The "trooper" would fill the gaps that warrur and guardian do not.
Guardians and warrurs do not pull nor strip boons, so the "trooper" would have a lot of both of those. Guardians and warrurs have a lot of survivability, so the "trooper" would be lacking in that, having very few defensive skills.
As a "damage trooper": You'd attack the enemy with higher mobility and focus on removing their defenses with (a few) unblockable attacks, boon stripping, etc.
As a "control trooper": You use pulls to make sure your enemies don't get away from your or your allies. You inflict cripple, immob, stun, etc to stop them from running.
As a "support trooper": You strip enemies of their buffs, decreasing their offensive and defensive capabilities. You remove conditions such as weakness, cripple, and blind; ensuring your allies can hit as hard as ever.(Healing and protection[Including removing bleed, poison, burning] are things that are already done well by the guardian)

Profession mechanic: Since there aren't a lot of weapons I see fitting for this profession, I figured it could have different "modes". Kits would be another solution, but that's an engineer thing and I'd prefer it stay an engineer thing.

Weapons(Ranges in brackets: SR/LR):
-Pistol (400/900)- SR(Short-range mode) main hand pistol would be a heavy damage weapon with a focus on condition damage, featuring burning and bleeding. LR main hand would be steady ranged damage with light bleeding and perhaps traits that allow for light burning on crit. SR offhand pistol would be focused on crip and immob, making sure the enemy doesn't get away, while LR offhand pistol would would deliver blind and cripple in smaller doses of damage.
-Rifle (600/1200(750/1500 with traits))- Rifle would be nothing but ranged burst damage, with high-power burst damage SR; and a longer cooldown, slightly weaker burst damage in LR. The power and effectiveness of ranged bursts would be balanced out by a long cooldown. If ranged bursts proved to be a matter of "either OP or UP", it could just be a steady direct-damage weapon.
-Sword (130ish/500ish)- Sword would be the control weapon in main hand, with SR sword being cripple, immob, stun, or whatever, and LR sword being lots of leaps and high-mobility attacks, and maybe a pull in there somewhere(Leap at your foe, chains into leap backwards and pull?). Off hand sword would be a defensive weapon, focused on countering and parrying; block in SR, reflect projectiles in LR.
-Axe - (400/700)Main hand only, the axe would serve as a throwing hatchet much like the ranger axe, but with a focus strictly on utility and control. Pulls, cripple, etc. Auto-attack could be a chain that ends with 1-2 sec of cripple.
-Dagger - (300/600)Off hand only, the dagger would serve as a throwing knife, perhaps with a focus on dealing the final killing blows to your enemy. (Extra damage if enemy is <X% health?)

The lack of an aoe weapon is kinda bothering me, so maybe the utilities could feature a lot of aoe damage skills.
Warhorn is a maybe. Greatsword and shield are both a big "NO".

It's all still up in the air and I haven't fleshed the profession out fully, but I'm curious to hear what others think.

#2 draxynnic



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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

It's a bit of a reverse of the usual process, since you're starting by looking for playstyle gaps and not really saying much about the theme of the profession, as opposed to the majority that come up with a theme but don't think about what makes it play different to other professions.

That said though... what is your theme? What is the profession's background, and how does it fit into the world? How do you explain why a heavy armour profession would regard greatsword and shield as being such big "NO"s?
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#3 Gerroh


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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:41 AM

Why can't greatsword and shield be big "NO"s? Engineers use the same armor as rangers and thieves, but they don't touch daggers, swords, or bows. Shields are a hefty, bulky, defensive object which just don't fit with the idea of a highly-mobile soldier. Keeping the "highly-mobile soldier" idea in mind, greatswords seem a bit too hefty, as well, and just wouldn't be nimble enough for this profession. I honestly didn't even think of including dagger and axe, but I kind of tossed those in as without those, the profession would be quite lacking in weapon selection.

The theme, I guess, is a more technologically advanced soldier, using primarily guns. Think of it as the mobility of a thief(probably no shadowsteps or teleports, though) and the tech of an engineer(minus the silliness) packed into a warrur with a little less brute force. The profession differs from guardian and warrur by disabling enemy buffs and yanking weaker targets into the fray.

All that said, the utilities would focus on a more military themed version of engineer-like utilities. There wouldn't be any rocket boots, or kits, or turrets, but you'd have maybe a utility that throws remote-detonated charge, and another that throws some kind of magic-disruption device that strips boons at random from nearby enemies.

How it fits into the world is still quite flexible and can be reworked, as I don't care so much about the lore of the profession so much as the function of the profession.

#4 Ryoto


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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:08 AM

I think it seems pretty interesting, it would fill some of the gaps I am seeing so maybe it could be a cool class.

#5 VanderBeltLegacy


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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

i could acctually mock up a great concept, and add lore/theme from what you already given, but even gw1 out weighed in class, with 2 heavy(war/para), 3 medium(ranger/assassin/dervish) and 5 light(monk/necromancer/mesmer/elementalist/ritaulist), symmetry has never been anets strong suite.

#6 draxynnic



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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

Heavy armour is also a hefty, bulky defensive object that just doesn't fit into the idea of a high-mobility soldier. In fact, historically, there were light infantry that used shields (the Greek peltasts) while I don't think I've come across any historical references to light infantry wearing full scale or mail, let alone plate. So there's a BIG discrepancy between 'can't use a shield or two-handed melee weapon because you need to be mobile' and 'heavy armour'.

The more modernesque focus is a possible explanation since shields and greatswords got phased out as armies went into the age of gunpowder... but so did the heavy armour. Fall back into medium armour, and you're starting to look at something similar to an engineer. Furthermore, I'm also not seeing a clear way for that concept to strip boons, something that in Guild Wars normally involves the use of something supernatural - while an engineer theoretically could through the use of a boon-stripping elixir or the like.

Really, though, personally I prefer to go with ideas of 'what concepts work' than getting too hung up about symmetry. I recall back when we were still waiting on the mesmer and engineer, and people were drawing up tables trying to predict what weapons the remaining professions would use based on which weapons were less used than others - and surprisingly enough, they got it very wrong.

Thing is, a focus on mobility is something that thematically fits the lighter-armoured professions... which should come as no surprise. Once you take that as part of your assumption, the role of mobile boon-stripper and general debilitator is already taken by professions such as the mesmer and thief. In the context of GW2, you'd probably actually have a more distinct concept if you combined the relative tanking of the heavily armoured professions with boonstripping, as that's a combination that has less competition
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#7 Gerroh


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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:01 AM

There are plenty of heavy armors that are not bulky in their appearance, and if a warrur or guardian can leap 10m through the air in full heavy armor then I don't see why a heavy armor profession can't be considered "highly mobile".
It's not so much about the weight of the shield and greatsword, it's that they are just very awkward to move quickly with. It's the same reason a thief does not use a longbow - backflips and rolls would be too difficult with something so large.

Overall it's not about the lore as much as the function and purpose of the profession. Skills such as "Unholy Feast" and "Winter's Bite" are examples of things that just don't make sense from the perspective you're talking about. "Throw an axe to chill your foe" makes less sense than "fire a shot that removes a magical enchantment from your foe" to me.

#8 Trise


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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

This sounds like a neat idea. But, like many new profession ideas, perhaps this one could be solved better by adding a new weapon type to an existing profession, in this case, giving the Guardian a Rifle or MH Pistol to the Mesmer. Guardian already fits the stereotype and his magical evasions are much more in-tune with Guild Wars' universe than someone doing ninja-style gymnastics in plate mail. Guardians are experts at magical enhancements, it stands to reason they'd know how to end them early. Mesmers, on the other hand, are the premier debilitators in Guild Wars' universe and master duelists. If a Mesmer could wear armors that look heavy or conjure the illusion of heavy armor, he would fit this particular playstyle perfectly.

The only "happy medium" I can think of is to borrow the good ol' Mesmer's Greatsword solution: if it's too heavy, levitate it magically. (just a little bit, let's not get crazy with flying professions). That too comes with its own problems, such as being extremely Mesmer-like, prompting others to question why abilities like these weren't simply given to the Mesmer in the first place.

Draxynnic does bring up a good question, "if you can't get hit, why do you need armor?"

Edited by Trise, 15 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.

#9 My Sweet Lily

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

Well, I think for a third heavy armor profession we could have something like DK's from WoW.

We have a warrior.
We have a holy warrior.
We need an unholy warrior.

But this is only, if we want 3/3/3 professions.

#10 Guest 34905

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

Well your new gameplay options look interesting, but I'm afraid there is not really a lore-wise space left for heavy armors.. :/

#11 actionjack


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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:54 AM

Hmm... I do like the concept of different "modes", and is certainly a creative take on the class.  However, just not too sure if fully needed, as it tread the same path as different role with different weapons.

but in adding to the concept, I could see where each weapon don't necessary have SR and LR, but just two different mode (normal and either defensive/cover, or assault stance).  Normal would be just normal, while in assault stance your skill would be more aggressive, and more mobile, but will tend to take more damage.  While in cover/defensive stance, your mobility slows, but gain better recovery/defense, and support abilities.

So a pistol will have stance of normal and assault, while a shield have normal and defense. etc  (but not sure what to do about duel weaponing yet)

#12 koetje07


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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

unholy warrior. nuff said.

#13 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Whore cares about symmetry?

#14 Green


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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

So I'm thinking it would look something like this

Posted Image

Sorry bud Arenanet has already beat you to the punch, check it out.


Very cool skills he has


Edited by Green, 17 December 2012 - 02:47 PM.

#15 SpelignErrir


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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Doesn't sound like a heavy class...

More like a medium class.

#16 AKGeo


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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:09 AM

Engineer should have been heavy armor and done this and its usual skills replacing some of the useless kit skills. The end.

There's only so much you can do with heavy and keep it lore-friendly. Warrior and Guardian perform all the roles one would expect of a front-liner.

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