14 replies to this topic

[Wanna Go To heaven]

Hi,
can we please fix/nerf the most commonly used d/d and s/d bunker builds?
This is simply getting out of hand, being unkillable 1v1, hard to kill 1v2 while still being able to take people down rather fast.
Being condi cleansed most of the time, having huge mobility (meaning there's no kiting it or trying to chase it down)

Just so you know, i've played one for over 20 levels (glory levels), so I know what I'm talking about. Whenever I jump on another class, all I see is very little self healing and such lower survivability for the class I'm playing on.

Not even motivating to learn a new class when you lose so many benefits. Most other bunkers get bursted down way faster...

inb4 it's a bunker, can't 1v1 ect. this build just has way too much utility/mobility.
It has to be brought back in line with the rest.

[Lazarast]

Great and bunker guardians and engis continue the same way?

[Wanna Go To heaven]

As I said, eles have more bonuses that the other two, at least from my exp.
It's also really easy to pick up and play rather well.
I have a much harder time to get engis/guards to play well. But thats a l2p for me

edit: well as it has been said many time over, changing pvp type will solve this bunker lulziness

Edited by Wanna Go To heaven, 14 December 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Lazarast]

Well I hope this is not another game of those that every month they nerf something. If they nerf bunker elementalis, then they'll have to nerf other things and like that for always.

[Azilyi]

The reason GW2 holds such appeal for me is because Arenanet broke away from the normal class-specific gameplay of other MMORPGs.  No healers.  No holy trinity.

This was great on paper for taking down bosses, but it created a new challenge for them: How do we make it work in PvP?

The approach they took was a sound one.  Defense > Offense.  There are no healers in this game, so there needed to be a way to have characters live from the start of the fight, to the end so that they aren't just dying in a flash by crit-specced rogues like in other games.

Remove your mindset from "You're a caster, you should do a lot of damage and take none."  Every class can change their role.  The caster you're upset about, is not a caster.  It is a tank.  The build was designed to take damage.

I understand your frustration lies mostly with this new 'tank's' mobility and damage.  It is higher than other classes trying to fill the same niche.  And for that, I have no argument.  Every class has its strengths/weaknesses.  But when you get down to the nitty gritty--after you've done a fuel duels at level 80--you will learn that two bunkers, regardless of their class, will almost never kill each other in 1v1.

They just run around healing themselves for 20 minutes before they decide nothing's going to happen, and someone leaves.

This was on purpose.  Because GW2 was not designed to be played 1v1.  It was designed to be 10v10.  And in that arena, elementalist is just another class, with another way to play.

Edit:
tl;dr - Bunkers are designed not to die.  Every class can make their character that way--but with different strengths and weaknesses.  Elementalists are no exception.

Edited by Azilyi, 14 December 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[Faelun]

Can someone post this all powerful bunker build everyone keeps talking about?

[Mekkakat]

I swear that this is why I've almost entirely come to hate playing my Ele (my fav class in GW2).

Every day/week I hear someone online complaining about how Eles are apparently glaringly overpowered.. yet we still only have one role in the game. We still only have one viable use as a team player. Meanwhile - Guardians and Engineers can bunker all day, a single Thief can wreck a whole team, Mesmers are still Mesmers, and one Well Necro can crush center.

How in the world are people still complaining about the Elementalist, when everyone but the Ranger and Warrior are better at everything that they (Eles) can do... except pester people with defensive skills?



Nerfing the Ele will simply be yet another trend, showing that the real issues of GW2 will remain unchecked. (Trait/Skill bugs from beta say whaaaaaa?)

[paolot]

Faelun, on 14 December 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Can someone post this all powerful bunker build everyone keeps talking about?

I am playing this build:
http://en.gw2skills....UjoGbNuak1MEZGB

I'm not sure if this is the build he is talking about, but it is very good imo. Great survivability, mobility, and decent damage. It really isn't a bunker build though. More like a support build with your aurashare. You are not going to be able to hold a point like a guardian or engineer bunker.

This thread seems more like a troll attempt to me. I don't really see any reason to nerf eles more. We really have a lot of downsides to have to work around, and a lot of weaknesses. Of course, I am biased in this matter because I have the most fun playing ele, so I have a vested interest in not having it get nerfed more.

[Reisa]

And to be super duper tanky builds, Elementalists have trouble killing other people's glass cannons.

And, let's be honest, there is no alternative for ele's.  Even those builds that aren't specific bunkers (such as the valk build used by some in pvp) are built pretty similarly along those lines.

So you shouldn't be requesting a nerf to, essentially, the elementalist's only usable build.  You should be requesting that we be given alternatives.

[AdraCo]

I have an answer for all bunkers eles, I only want to know how to beat them. I simply cant see the weak points of this build, with the mobilty he evade the most attacks, if you finally can hit them, they switch water and heal. Also the bunker ele dont hit soft. The mainly difference with other tanky build is the high mobility and speed of the ele, you cant run out of battle.

I am not glass cannon and cant kill bunker ele and the most important thing is you also cant flie cause they have some CC and are much faster than you, sooo you say bunker ele its not OP? them can you say us the weaks points?

[Reisa]

AdraCo, on 15 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

I have an answer for all bunkers eles, I only want to know how to beat them. I simply cant see the weak points of this build, with the mobilty he evade the most attacks, if you finally can hit them, they switch water and heal. Also the bunker ele dont hit soft. The mainly difference with other tanky build is the high mobility and speed of the ele, you cant run out of battle.

I am not glass cannon and cant kill bunker ele and the most important thing is you also cant flie cause they have some CC and are much faster than you, sooo you say bunker ele its not OP? them can you say us the weaks points?

Highly predictable and telegraphed attacks, mediocre damage, extreme vulnerability to immobilize, needing to spend all their utilities on survival.  And oh yes, absolutely terrible elites.

If you're not glass and can't kill a bunker, that's sorta the point.  They're designed specifically to live through glass bursts from classes that already have inbuilt defenses (such as thieves and mesmers).

The trick to beating a bunker ele is getting her to burn her cantrips.  Most ele's will try to save mist form for a free stomp and lightning flash for movement with churning earth.  After cantrips are gone, a good chunk of the ele's mobility and defenses are gone.

I'm also assuming you're talking about WvW, since when a bunker ele flees, that's generally a good thing for PvP (as you can secure point).

[AdraCo]

Reisa, on 15 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Highly predictable and telegraphed attacks, mediocre damage, extreme vulnerability to immobilize, needing to spend all their utilities on survival.  And oh yes, absolutely terrible elites.

If you're not glass and can't kill a bunker, that's sorta the point.  They're designed specifically to live through glass bursts from classes that already have inbuilt defenses (such as thieves and mesmers).

The trick to beating a bunker ele is getting her to burn her cantrips.  Most ele's will try to save mist form for a free stomp and lightning flash for movement with churning earth.  After cantrips are gone, a good chunk of the ele's mobility and defenses are gone.

I'm also assuming you're talking about WvW, since when a bunker ele flees, that's generally a good thing for PvP (as you can secure point).

Man i dont know what you talking about... Lets see your weaks points, "highly predictable and telegraphed attacks" you mean AOEs attacks, that are so easy to land, we are limited dodges and i waste in evade the CCs, after that, its more easy to ele to land his attacks than you evade them.

"mediocre damage" i dont think so, or at least if u call it "mediocre" them you may say all non glass cannon builds do medocre damage, like I say before bunker ele dont hit soft!

"extreme vulnerability to immobilize, needing to spend all their utilities on survival" oh man you say the weaks points of all the other classes in the game. Play other classes and give more objective arguments.

To all fo your post i only take one weak point: high cooldowns in utility skills, soo now the point its how to force then to use is prematurely? Like i say before he keep moving and evade like the hell.

And yes, I was speaking about WvsW, in sPvP Bunker ele can holder a point  againts two or even three enemies.

Edited by AdraCo, 15 December 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[Reisa]

AdraCo, on 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Man i dont know what you talking about... Lets see your weaks points, "highly predictable and telegraphed attacks" you mean AOEs attacks, that are so easy to land, we are limited dodges and i waste in evade the CCs, after that, its more easy to ele to land his attacks than you evade them.

Yes, highly predictable and telegraphed attacks.  If you see an ele charging up, he's using Churning Earth, which has a four second channel.  You can spend three of those seconds poking the ele then dodge on the fourth second, and hey, the ele just missed with her most powerful attack, took extra damage, and is in melee range.

Likewise for the next combo--burning speed into ring of fire into either drake's breath or fire grab.  The ele's second most powerful skill, but is only that way if the target is burning.  You know how the ele sets up that combo?  Ride the lightning into updraft.

If you mess with an elementalist's timings, you've already pulled their teeth.

AdraCo, on 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

"mediocre damage" i dont think so, or at least if u call it "mediocre" them you may say all non glass cannon builds do medocre damage, like I say before bunker ele dont hit soft!

Yes, mediocre damage.  The only way an ele can generally kill anything is because A) the person lets them or the elementalist is in combat so long that the enemy is eventually wittled down.  This is obvious when a bunker elementalist has problems killing a glass cannon.  We're talking about a power build that does so blah damage that it's actually more efficient to take a corruption stacking sigil in a weapon.  On top of that, a d/d ele usually doesn't have any traits that actually enhance their offensive nature beyond boons.

AdraCo, on 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

"extreme vulnerability to immobilize, needing to spend all their utilities on survival" oh man you say the weaks points of all the other classes in the game. Play other classes and give more objective arguments.

People whine about elementalist's strengths but then don't actually want to put in the work to neutralize them?  Immobilize screws dagger/dagger elementalists.  More so than any other class.  Remember, despite all their bunkeryness, elementalists are still lightly armored.  Immobilize either gives you free hits or forces the elementalist onto the defensive--either by changing attunements (to water to cleanse, and water has very little offensive punch) or by burning a cantrip.

And yes, they tend to spend their entire bar on defensive or support utilities.  Other classes have utilities that pull double duty and many builds bring at least one offensive utility if only to make a halfway decent burst.

AdraCo, on 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

To all fo your post i only take one weak point: high cooldowns in utility skills, soo now the point its how to force then to use is prematurely? Like i say before he keep moving and evade like the hell.

And yes, I was speaking about WvsW, in sPvP Bunker ele can holder a point  againts two or even three enemies.

Well, in PvP, you force the ele to be mobile outside of the point so you can cap it.  In WvW, well, it was never meant to be balanced.  If you force an elementalist to flee, you've won.  You may not have gotten loot, but you beat the elementalist.  It's not the only class that can disengage semi easily (and the thief can pretty much disengage at will).  In fact, the long cooldown on utilities and certain important skills ensures that the elementalist won't be back in 15 seconds when all your skills are still recharging.

[Wanna Go To heaven]

Azilyi, on 14 December 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

This was on purpose.  Because GW2 was not designed to be played 1v1.  It was designed to be 10v10.  And in that arena, elementalist is just another class, with another way to play.

Edit:
tl;dr - Bunkers are designed not to die.  Every class can make their character that way--but with different strengths and weaknesses.  Elementalists are no exception.

Pretty sure it's balanced around 5v5... 10v10 is just zerging stuff.
Look at how terrible 8v8 is. It's just a way to farm glory with other people going full tunnel vision.

I regret making this thread, as it's not that much about ele bunkers, and more about the way gw 2 pvp is, with only conquest/point cap. Has been discussed many times over.

I'm only complaining about the fact ele bunker has quite a few things it can do.
A guardian bunker has so little mobility. But they did change/limit weapons in tourneys now, no way to switch and abuse some things (speed buff with staff/ extra toughness with scepter earth).

Quote

The trick to beating a bunker ele is getting her to burn her cantrips.  Most ele's will try to save mist form for a free stomp and lightning flash for movement with churning earth.  After cantrips are gone, a good chunk of the ele's mobility and defenses are gone.

I agree with that, I usually get shat on when my cds are down. but burning all 3 gives you a ton of regen while waiting for cds to get up.

Quote

Highly predictable and telegraphed attacks, mediocre damage, extreme vulnerability to immobilize, needing to spend all their utilities on survival.  And oh yes, absolutely terrible elites.

Agree with the first part, yet a good player will not use the same chains over and over again. The more I play the less I use the rlt+stun combo because it's so predictable.

Mediocre damage? it's decent, and some non bunkers builds deal as much damage.
Vulnerable to immo? jk spam condi cleanse

Elites are indeed awful. forget to use to most the time as they don't change that much.

Quote

It's not the only class that can disengage semi easily (and the thief can pretty much disengage at will).  In fact, the long cooldown on utilities and certain important skills ensures that the elementalist won't be back in 15 seconds when all your skills are still recharging.

Thief disengages in stealth allowing you to cap a point. So I laugh so hard when I see stealth builds because they just lemme cap.
And actually I run away for cds to come back up, you have 4 attunements that help a ton.
Water on cd? run away wait 2 sec switch heal 50%, run back in before point cap.


As i said before, it's an easy to pick up build, and not that hard to play decent with.
I have a much harder time playing a bunker guardian/engi with the same played as my ele.

[jelz]

Lazarast, on 14 December 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Great and bunker guardians and engis continue the same way?

If you could tell me the bunker engineer build you are talking about that would great because guardians and engineers are not nearly as good as a bunker ele, I can defeat guardians and engineers and basically any class besides the bunker ele, i want to know what engineer build you are talking about because i don't think there is a bunker engineer build