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Condition Bunker


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#1 jeddahwe

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

http://intothemists....8S;1jwmAjwmA9cQ

This is a build some one else used in tournament play and linked the video to -though they did not use spiders.  Wanted to get some discussion about it in all forms of the game.

Thoughts on traits, utilities, weapon and pet choices?

#2 Umie

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:22 AM

i didnt realize this thread existed when i created a similar one =P this build is great, i run a modified version in tpvp with lots of success. axe/dagger/cats/SB for superior bleed application. muddy terrain instead of QZ. it destroys thieves and eles, and mitigates a ton of damage. when roaming, i'll use SoH instead of SoR.

this build and the similar wipes the floor with any trap build imo, and i find it difficult going back to power builds after doing bleed stacking. traps are so overrated, kinda sad, but more wins for me this way.

Edited by Umie, 20 December 2012 - 07:23 AM.


#3 KQ

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

A lot of people are running similar builds these days. I find that this trait setup is one of the few that's viable for rangers right now. I've posted my variation of it here (except that I'm currently using Sword/Torch and Axe/Dagger). That being said, since you're taking both Quickening Zephyr and Healing Spring, you should be careful when you're popping QZ, preferably not when you're point defending. If you'd ask me, I'd just drop QZ entirely and take a defensive utility instead. Take Vigorous Renewal instead of Oakheart Salve or Wilderness Knowledge. Take a canine, preferably Wolf, instead of one of the spiders, as it's really a mandatory pet in tournaments. I'd also take Shout Mastery instead of Mighty Swap. But I see you're focused more on condition damage than on staying alive though, which is also indicated by your choice of runes and sigils. Instead of sigils of battle, I'd take energy or hydromancy. Spirit of Nature is not as awesome as some other revival skills, but it's useful if you can time it right so it resurrects you.

#4 jeddahwe

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

Updated the build:

http://intothemists....H7;2jwmAjwmA9Fk

Utilities not sure about though.

#5 Umie

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

View PostKQ, on 20 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Spirit of Nature is not as awesome as some other revival skills, but it's useful if you can time it right so it resurrects you.

you can get over 900HPS with pet, regen and SoN out.

#6 KQ

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

View PostUmie, on 20 December 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

you can get over 900HPS with pet, regen and SoN out.
Only if they don't kill the spirit first, as squishy as it is. But ya, you gotta be smart about spirit placement anyway.

Edited by KQ, 20 December 2012 - 11:56 PM.


#7 JROH

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

Granted that differences exist, but essentially, we are having the same build conversations over and over again (see this: http://www.guildwars...rted-running/�� and read through the thread a bit, as there is an overall final outcome).

Not that it is a bad thing, but the stickied guide is highly outdated and a new one should be created and maintained for meta shift purposes. I would do it but I don't feel I have the tournament experience to comment on the builds, and am much more of a theorycrafter than I am a person who experiences the metagame.

Also, I play the class with a certain amount of contempt towards it, finding it to be the best archer style class GW2 has to offer, but not being able to replace my guild wars 1 ranger at all, and sadly there are no pure ranged DPS classes that I feel match the ranger. I can say with almost certainty that my opinions definitely reflect this and I would be unable to keep my own personal bias out of any type of write up I could try.

I'm just throwing the idea out that perhaps we need a new sticky that consolidates links to these builds, to minimize redundancy (I'm only asking this as a theorycrafter. I would love to see as many viable ranger builds as humanly possible created).

Edited by JROH, 21 December 2012 - 01:56 AM.


#8 jeddahwe

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:35 AM

View PostKQ, on 20 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

A lot of people are running similar builds these days. I find that this trait setup is one of the few that's viable for rangers right now. I've posted my variation of it here (except that I'm currently using Sword/Torch and Axe/Dagger). That being said, since you're taking both Quickening Zephyr and Healing Spring, you should be careful when you're popping QZ, preferably not when you're point defending. If you'd ask me, I'd just drop QZ entirely and take a defensive utility instead. Take Vigorous Renewal instead of Oakheart Salve or Wilderness Knowledge. Take a canine, preferably Wolf, instead of one of the spiders, as it's really a mandatory pet in tournaments. I'd also take Shout Mastery instead of Mighty Swap. But I see you're focused more on condition damage than on staying alive though, which is also indicated by your choice of runes and sigils. Instead of sigils of battle, I'd take energy or hydromancy. Spirit of Nature is not as awesome as some other revival skills, but it's useful if you can time it right so it resurrects you.

What about splitting the 'condition' damage between ranger and pet?  Since the class is balanced around pet and ranger, why not build a bunker/condition ranger that uses all the +condition duration/damage for pet traits?

For example:

http://intothemists....8S;1jwmAjwmA6FH

10/0/30/0/30 S+D / A+WH
Arctodus + Lynx
Troll / SoR (over kill?) / "Protect Me" (over kill?) / SotH / Rampage
Undead Runes
Sigil: +condition stacking & Might on switch on both sets
Soldier Amulet+Carriorn Jewel

Health 21,522
Toughness 1,835
Condition Damage 608

Pet extra condition duration is +50%
Pet extra condition damage is what +%?  +50% or +75%?
Feline/Drake/Shark/Devourer (devourer good choice for the 4 sec channeled bleed?) bleed each time it crits with regular attack.

Thoughts?

Edited by jeddahwe, 21 December 2012 - 09:38 AM.


#9 Xsorus

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

The bleeds from the Cat pets are pretty bad, pretty much any pet in general..

You're better off improving your conditions/survivability and letting your pet be your Power/Crit bursting

That's why these specs tend to work so well, When we go Glass Cannon our damage isn't super great, However when we go Tank Mode we tend to be very hard to bring down, and since half our damage is basically our pet, we can afford to basically ignore Precision/Power completely since our Pet will have its own stats and will still hit very hard.

Generally what I do is I run Pain Inverter/Lightning Reflexes/Signet of the Wild in my video's, Since the change to Signet of the Hunt I've been switching SoTW to SoTH when moving around places, and when I spot an enemy I pop back to the SoTW..This has allowed me to speed up a great deal and to avoid zergs a bit better.

I've also actually dropped Undead off my gear Apothecary Gear and picked up Dwyana Rune's instead, This gives me a powerful Regen oh my main heal which has improved my Survivability. I've also been playing with dropping Nature's 10 points (I lose the Regen on 30 second cooldown which sucks) and put them back into Skirmishing for the 30% crit Bonus on my pets.

Reason being, when I get to a keep, I'm actually able to harass the enemy somewhat with Guard/QZ and my Jag Pet, Generally I'll swap my abilities to those, then Send the Pet over the wall (Guard is *in awesome now for that) and when he gets close, I use QZ/Stealth..I've though about trying Sickem with it, but I generally want speed on my Cat pet to chase people down.

I've actually been a dick about it lately, Tonight for example I saw a Rifle Warrior/Glass Cannon Thief beating on a Guardian, I switched out my Pain Inverter real quick to QZ< and send the Jag Pet onto the thief, and forced the Thief to flee from the fight (My Cat eventually caught and killed him) He can easily hit the Glass Cannon Thieves for 4k a pop so they tend to panic when it happens heh.

Anyway You could do the same thing in tournament mode fairly easy, you'd just be using QZ instead of Pain Inverter since it doesn't exist.

View PostKQ, on 20 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

A lot of people are running similar builds these days. I find that this trait setup is one of the few that's viable for rangers right now. I've posted my variation of it here (except that I'm currently using Sword/Torch and Axe/Dagger). That being said, since you're taking both Quickening Zephyr and Healing Spring, you should be careful when you're popping QZ, preferably not when you're point defending. If you'd ask me, I'd just drop QZ entirely and take a defensive utility instead. Take Vigorous Renewal instead of Oakheart Salve or Wilderness Knowledge. Take a canine, preferably Wolf, instead of one of the spiders, as it's really a mandatory pet in tournaments. I'd also take Shout Mastery instead of Mighty Swap. But I see you're focused more on condition damage than on staying alive though, which is also indicated by your choice of runes and sigils. Instead of sigils of battle, I'd take energy or hydromancy. Spirit of Nature is not as awesome as some other revival skills, but it's useful if you can time it right so it resurrects you.

By the way, Wanted to tell ya on your updated build, get rid of the F2 Cooldown lowered talent if you're swapping pets, It's a complete waste as you'll be swapping probably close to every 15 seconds anyway, and it resets the cooldown of your F2 abilities every time you do that.

#10 Umie

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

View PostXsorus, on 21 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The bleeds from the Cat pets are pretty bad, pretty much any pet in general.You're better off improving your conditions/survivability and letting your pet be your Power/Crit bursting

or you could let your cat do both? expertise training increases condi damage by about 20%. the lynx can get 10 stacks on a crippled target, no problem. i switch to my jag and stealth it when i wanna burst someone down.

#11 Xsorus

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

View PostUmie, on 21 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

or you could let your cat do both? expertise training increases condi damage by about 20%. the lynx can get 10 stacks on a crippled target, no problem. i switch to my jag and stealth it when i wanna burst someone down.

The most condition damage your pet can get is 350, which is really nothing in terms of damage... Its basically supplemental damage for your cats Burst.

#12 JROH

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

Changing the runes and amulet around to be a combination of shamans amulet/carrion jewel and +vitality runes gives much more survivability (against direct damage) with only a slight tradeoff in condition damage, if anybody wanted to go that route. The extra health makes the build much tankier.

You can test it and run the numbers yourself using: http://www.guildwars...s-and-vitality/

Just thought this info would be helpful since ideally the build is trying to increase survival as much as possible while being able to attrition the opponent.

Edited by JROH, 23 December 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#13 Hyoshen

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:41 PM

http://intothemists....V;1jwmAjwmA2cFx

This is the condition/pet/bunker build that I'm planning to use for my Ranger. I have yet to test it for an extended period of time, so please provide your feedbacks and suggestions so that I can modify it as I see fit :) .

The important points to note are:
1. Pets selection: Snow Leopard for its Chill and Jaguar for its Stealth.
2. Skirmishing trait line: This entire line is traited for increased critical rate in order to complement several things:
  • Superior Sigil of Earth and Sharpened Edges for extra bleeding
  • Companion's Might for stacking Might on pets
3. Wilderness Survival trait line: 20 points in this for the toughness and condition damage. Wilderness Knowledge and Martial Mastery helps reduce skills cooldown by 20%.
4. Rejuvenation: 5 points into Nature Magic just for the regeneration.
5. Beastmastery trait line: Mighty Swap and Loud Whistle complement each other perfectly. Faster swap plus 3 stack of Might when swapped, plus any potential Might from Companion's Might may turn your pets into bursting killers!
6. Stats focus: Toughness >> Condition Damage >> Precision (at least up till 50% crit rate)

With all the Might granting, you can just leave the burst damage responsibility to your pets while you focus on survivability and stacking condition damage. I have been experimenting with various ranger builds, but so far I've yet to fine a perfect fit for myself :eek: Do let me know what do you guys think.

#14 Xsorus

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

View PostHyoshen, on 07 January 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

http://intothemists....V;1jwmAjwmA2cFx

This is the condition/pet/bunker build that I'm planning to use for my Ranger. I have yet to test it for an extended period of time, so please provide your feedbacks and suggestions so that I can modify it as I see fit :) .

The important points to note are:
1. Pets selection: Snow Leopard for its Chill and Jaguar for its Stealth.
2. Skirmishing trait line: This entire line is traited for increased critical rate in order to complement several things:
  • Superior Sigil of Earth and Sharpened Edges for extra bleeding
  • Companion's Might for stacking Might on pets
3. Wilderness Survival trait line: 20 points in this for the toughness and condition damage. Wilderness Knowledge and Martial Mastery helps reduce skills cooldown by 20%.
4. Rejuvenation: 5 points into Nature Magic just for the regeneration.
5. Beastmastery trait line: Mighty Swap and Loud Whistle complement each other perfectly. Faster swap plus 3 stack of Might when swapped, plus any potential Might from Companion's Might may turn your pets into bursting killers!
6. Stats focus: Toughness >> Condition Damage >> Precision (at least up till 50% crit rate)

With all the Might granting, you can just leave the burst damage responsibility to your pets while you focus on survivability and stacking condition damage. I have been experimenting with various ranger builds, but so far I've yet to fine a perfect fit for myself :eek: Do let me know what do you guys think.

From what i remember about Companions Might, its like 1 second of might for your pet, which is awful.

Sigil of Earth is nice but you'd be better off dropping crit down and picking up 10 more points in Wilderness for Empathetic Bond, which is probably the best talent we have in the game.

I'd also recommend Geomancy over Earth as well... PBAE 3 stacks of bleed on weapon swap. Put it on Both Weapon slots,..Move in With Shortbow and switch to sword/torch to apply the conditions, then before ya move out switch back to short bow applying it, (use evade to move back)




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