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*Spoilers* Forgal and Sieran


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#1 fffire24

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Do you think there's any chance they lived and will be reintroduced in future story lines?  We've seen this done before in Arah storymode with Logan.

#2 Pariah

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

I was half expecting to see a Risen Forgal and Tybalt somewhere in Orr, but only got the mention of them from the Sovereign Eye... but of course it mentioned Sieran being Risen as well which is just bad writing considering she was a Sylvari... I wouldn't give them much in chances unless they swam away and got washed up on some distant shore we haven't visited yet.

#3 Sheepski

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostPariah, on 14 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I was half expecting to see a Risen Forgal and Tybalt somewhere in Orr, but only got the mention of them from the Sovereign Eye... but of course it mentioned Sieran being Risen as well which is just bad writing considering she was a Sylvari... I wouldn't give them much in chances unless they swam away and got washed up on some distant shore we haven't visited yet.

They'll turn up as the new Gods of the Karka.... :P

It would be a shame to see Tybalt as an undead though, he was so awesome :D

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#4 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

View PostPariah, on 14 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I was half expecting to see a Risen Forgal and Tybalt somewhere in Orr, but only got the mention of them from the Sovereign Eye... but of course it mentioned Sieran being Risen as well which is just bad writing considering she was a Sylvari... I wouldn't give them much in chances unless they swam away and got washed up on some distant shore we haven't visited yet.
Or the Sovereign Eye was using psychological attacks and even Seiran's mention was intentional and not bad writing. The risen love psychological tauntings.

But it seems that the three are dead nonetheless, and though I love the characters I'd rather not have them return - why? Because all characters who are great and die off but return become awful when they return. Don't tarnish Tybalt's apples!

The only way they could return would be as risen which obviously wouldn't work with Seiran but either way they didn't go that route (probably avoided it since they did the same with Rurik in GW1).

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#5 NuclearDonut

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 14 December 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Or the Sovereign Eye was using psychological attacks and even Seiran's mention was intentional and not bad writing. The risen love psychological tauntings.

But it seems that the three are dead nonetheless, and though I love the characters I'd rather not have them return - why? Because all characters who are great and die off but return become awful when they return. Don't tarnish Tybalt's apples!

The only way they could return would be as risen which obviously wouldn't work with Seiran but either way they didn't go that route (probably avoided it since they did the same with Rurik in GW1).
I have to agree with the original poster, it was probably just overlooked that Seiran couldn't come back as a Risen. Though I like your explanation better.

#6 Kovares

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:09 AM

I'm torn about this. I would love to see Tybalt come back because he was an awesome character (actually the only really likeable one I found throughout all the orders), but if that would mean that Sieran would also make a comeback... I think I'd much rather honor his sacrifice and let him rest in peace.

#7 Tevesh

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

Why would they bring them back? To further weaken the already poor storytelling?

They made their choice. It had consequences. That's it. There is not enough feedback in the story as is, why would you remove the rest?

#8 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

There's definitely room for it, though I fear it'd destroy much of the story. Personally I'd rather see Trahearne die in the future than these guys coming back... please, let Trahearne die. Warmaster Efut for Marshal!

#9 dawdler

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

The strange thing is... I think the writer of the storyline had this idea that the person that died at the fortress would be the risen "boss" you meet after the ruin caves a little bit later in the story.

This mission always struck me as strange. Its very mysterious to begin with and become even more mysterious as it progress. You are stuck in the cave by a risen commander that is seemingly much smarter than your average risen - almost like he knows yours and Trahernes behaviour and set a trap.

Then you fight your way out of the cave and its... just a random risen boss with a name that says nothing. When I ran it the first time and Traherne stood at the blocked grate chatting my thought was immiedietly "OMG... TYBALT HAS BEEN CORRUPTED!!!".

It was a disappointment :(

Edited by dawdler, 18 December 2012 - 10:46 PM.


#10 Kurosov

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:40 AM

View Postdawdler, on 18 December 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

The strange thing is... I think the writer of the storyline had this idea that the person that died at the fortress would be the risen "boss" you meet after the ruin caves a little bit later in the story.

This mission always struck me as strange. Its very mysterious to begin with and become even more mysterious as it progress. You are stuck in the cave by a risen commander that is seemingly much smarter than your average risen - almost like he knows yours and Trahernes behaviour and set a trap.

Then you fight your way out of the cave and its... just a random risen boss with a name that says nothing. When I ran it the first time and Traherne stood at the blocked grate chatting my thought was immiedietly "OMG... TYBALT HAS BEEN CORRUPTED!!!".

It was a disappointment :(

I expected to see forgal as an enemy to fight when you went back to take claw island and then again at this very point after that failed to happen.

Obviously it wouldn't have worked out with the priory story but at the time i hadn't done that one.

Would have been a great addition to the game. Even if it was only for vigil players and the priory/whispers got their own unique aspect to the retaking of law island that fits their archetype.

#11 iLag

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

No. They went out as heroes. Now its time for Trahearne and later perhaps for that Douchebag Logan

#12 Doki20

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:58 PM

View PostKurosov, on 19 December 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

...
Would have been a great addition to the game. Even if it was only for vigil players and the priory/whispers got their own unique aspect to the retaking of law island that fits their archetype.

For whisper players, it would have made sense if they meet Tybalt (as a reanimated boss) during the siege of their main HQ. (Tybalt has fallen and all of a sudden Zhaitan finds out the location of the secret hideout..? come on)

I was actually waiting for that moment to happen while doing that story step but.. it didn't happen.

Edited by Doki20, 25 December 2012 - 07:59 PM.


#13 draxynnic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

That would probably have been the best time to put them in if they were going to, yes. Especially since it turned out that most of the Chantry's defences were built by, and bypassable by, Tybalt.

Putting them in that story step would also have made it easy not to put Sieran into the Priory step due to the sylvari immunity to being grabbed by the dragons.

There is an Order of Whispers specific event in southern Bloodtide Coast that suggests that Tybalt at least did die there - although it's possible that the 'risen commander' in question is just messing with you. I can see Tybalt at least managing to die in some way that prevented his body from being raised as a Risen (explosives belt), but if that happened it should be something that got mentioned in game, rather than being left for us to speculate about.
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#14 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:14 AM

Incidentally, I heard that event (or was it a risen captain in Bloodtide Coast) talks about Sieran too.

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#15 draxynnic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:42 AM

Haven't seen it, and I'm pretty sure that I've had my Durmand Priory character pass through the area post-Claw Island. Might be that there's an equivalent event in a different location, or there's some other trigger condition as well (such as only triggering when you're traveling alone).
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