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Gate, Rall, and Janthir - Stuck in a Sisyphean Nightmare


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#1 Gerroh

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Will we ever see other servers?
Will this bad parody of Groundhog Day ever end?
Nobody knows, and I think the only thing we all know is each other's guild tags.

Go!

#2 Vinava

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

[Nope]

maybe if TC gets beastly awesome and knocks us (IoJ) down.... but doubt that will happen

#3 Freelancer

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:11 AM

Nom nom nom.

I like my SoR toasty and my BG salted.
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#4 Captain Bulldozer

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:14 AM

I for one am really sick of it.  I think the rankings ought to include some sort of periodic rotation of servers rather than just a match-up based only on rank.  The top 3 servers face each other week after week, as do those ranked steadily 4 - 6, 7 - 9, etc.  There hasn't been much change in the server rankings of late, and things are getting pretty stale, especially for those ranked last in their tier of 3.

#5 Cirus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:51 AM

It should be a European soccer division style. Winner gets promoted a tier, loser gets demoted a tier, the mid table stays the same. The glicko rating was working like this in the early days, but with some of the servers with high rating collapsing and feeding the other tiers, it's now almost impossible to move either up or down.

#6 Therion

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

Isn't that the whole point? That servers of a similar performance level end up fighting eachother?

#7 pot

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:12 AM

It's now come to the point where in the top 4 tiers the winners actually lose ratings each week unless they stomp their opponents by 60k+ and then progressively stomp their opponent by more and more each week. That just isn't realistic. Someone mentioned glicko is meant for 1v1 type of matches, not 1v1v1. Could this be a flaw in the system or no?

#8 hokohuang

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

I found ND guild zerg tagged with SoR server  name yesterday... if they transfered , the situation is really bad for IoJ in this round.
I think ND plays a great part in IoJ's  prime  time

#9 Nirvii

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:10 AM

View Posthokohuang, on 15 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I found ND guild zerg tagged with SoR server  name yesterday... if they transfered , the situation is really bad for IoJ in this round.
I think ND plays a great part in IoJ's  prime  time
There are two ND guilds different one (Nine dragon and Never die, i believe?). one in IoJ one in SoR, i think.

Edited by Nirvii, 15 December 2012 - 06:10 AM.


#10 hokohuang

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

I remember I had checked the fullname, unless one single NineDragon member transfered to SoR , joined the NeverDie zerg and got clicked by me , lol.

#11 Azure Skye

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:41 AM

This kinda of what alot of servers are at the moment.  

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Yay, for stacked servers made everything bland.

Edited by Azure Skye, 15 December 2012 - 06:42 AM.


#12 Xinthai

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

View Posthokohuang, on 15 December 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

I remember I had checked the fullname, unless one single NineDragon member transfered to SoR , joined the NeverDie zerg and got clicked by me , lol.

Never Die is the IoJ one, Nine Dragon is SoR. So if you saw a Nine Dragon member on SoR, that's okay. :)

#13 Cirus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

View PostTherion, on 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Isn't that the whole point? That servers of a similar performance level end up fighting eachother?

Tarnished Coast has won tier 3 for 6 weeks in a row, and has not been promoted, many scores by large margins, they cannot possibly increase their rating any better while fighting lesser servers.

Isle of Janthir have come last in tier 2 in 5 out of the last 6 weeks, while they fight superior servers, they cannot get demoted.

Jade Quarry has not won tier 1 in 8 weeks and have come last 2 times in those 8 weeks, while being in tier 1.

This is just horrendous match making, it's so static that we are having the same match ups repeatedly for months at a time.

What is the point of beating the same opponents over and over and over? Servers want to improve, they want to be tested, they want to have variation, they want to have fun! the current match making system is a joke and it can literally be fixed over night with elementary programming.

#14 Cake is Cake

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Do realize guys, that any tier 1 server is likely to easily win tier 2 and any tier 2 server will crush tier 3.

These are the most even matchups right now....

#15 Reisa

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Maybe randomized starting positions in EB when servers have been matched up twice (or more) in a row.

View PostCake is Cake, on 15 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Do realize guys, that any tier 1 server is likely to easily win tier 2 and any tier 2 server will crush tier 3.

These are the most even matchups right now....

In my experience, many players know exactly this.

#16 Cirus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

View PostCake is Cake, on 15 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Do realize guys, that any tier 1 server is likely to easily win tier 2 and any tier 2 server will crush tier 3.

These are the most even matchups right now....

It was like that in the HoD days, but not anymore. Having been in both tiers within the past 8 weeks, I'd say that tiers 1 and 2 are almost equal standard.

Imagine, Sea of Sorrows vs Jade Quarry vs Blackgate

or Sanctum of Rall vs Stormbluff Isle vs Sea of Sorrows

or Sea of Sorrows vs Blackgate vs Stormbluff Isle

or Jade Quarry vs Blackgate vs Sanctum of Rall

or Blackgate vs Sea of Sorrows vs Sanctum of Rall

or Jade Quarry vs Sanctum of Rall vs Sea of Sorrows

OMG!!! the combinations!!! they're endless!!!!

but no instead we're left with SoS vs JQ vs SBI and BG vs SoR vs IOJ for 5 weeks in a row now and counting, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :zzz:

Edited by Cirus, 15 December 2012 - 04:36 PM.


#17 johnnyutah21

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostCake is Cake, on 15 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Do realize guys, that any tier 1 server is likely to easily win tier 2 and any tier 2 server will crush tier 3.

These are the most even matchups right now....

I wouldn't mind crushing some other servers for a change.  It would be a nice boost to IoJ morale after finishing in last 5 of the last 6 weeks.

Servers that finish 1st should move up a bracket, 2nd stays idle, and 3rd drops a bracket.  This would keep the matches more fresh from week to week.

#18 Elth

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

There is one good thing about this match up though guys & girls.  We still fight regardless of whether we are winning or losing.  It can be frustrating being an oceanic on Sanctum of Rall sometimes because BG and IoJ completely dominate us at night in both numbers and skill, but I wouldn't change it for the world.  Our coverage sucks at night so we wouldn't dominate T3 or T4 as much as we may think.  I would still expect a blowout during US Prime but the usual struggle during Oceanic/EU prime.

#19 hokohuang

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

View PostXinthai, on 15 December 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Never Die is the IoJ one, Nine Dragon is SoR. So if you saw a Nine Dragon member on SoR, that's okay. :)

oh then it was my mistake ,  sorry...

#20 Impmon

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

I was on SOR got sick of same people switched to Kaineng, got sick of same enemies there, switched to blackgate, after 3rd week of SOR/IOJ I switched to SOS.. now bored of that.  Now I do not WVW it bores me.  I play WVW if I need to get to sleep since it makes me tired and bored.

#21 Ramanadjinn

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostImpmon, on 16 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I was on SOR got sick of same people switched to Kaineng, got sick of same enemies there, switched to blackgate, after 3rd week of SOR/IOJ I switched to SOS.. now bored of that.  Now I do not WVW it bores me.  I play WVW if I need to get to sleep since it makes me tired and bored.

Might I suggest you try switching to a server that is not near any extreme of the ratings system.

The middle brackets are MUCH more volatile and as such see a lot more variety in their pairings.

Although, I understand if WvW itself is simply boring to you.  I feel the same about PVE.

#22 Aetou

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostCirus, on 15 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

It should be a European soccer division style. Winner gets promoted a tier, loser gets demoted a tier, the mid table stays the same. The glicko rating was working like this in the early days, but with some of the servers with high rating collapsing and feeding the other tiers, it's now almost impossible to move either up or down.

Then you'd get crushed one week, annihilate everyone the next, get crushed again, annihilate again... it wouldn't be balanced.  You'd have boring matches each week, they'd just involve mixing boring wins with boring defeats.

Now, if they did something like the first week of the month they promote/demote teams in repeated matchups and then let gicko determine the rest that might be fun (and would let people gauge the real difference between the tiers better) but doing it every week would be worse than the present situation.

#23 Cirus

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

View PostAetou, on 16 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then you'd get crushed one week, annihilate everyone the next, get crushed again, annihilate again... it wouldn't be balanced.  You'd have boring matches each week, they'd just involve mixing boring wins with boring defeats.

Now, if they did something like the first week of the month they promote/demote teams in repeated matchups and then let gicko determine the rest that might be fun (and would let people gauge the real difference between the tiers better) but doing it every week would be worse than the present situation.

If you never get out of your tier, you'll never know will you?

#24 DizzySkyJump

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

Posted Image

#25 Jacbo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

I'm not sure the difference between tiers is that great right now due to the overall low populations. Just look at Borlis Pass, they were in T7 for weeks due to the rating sharing, and then when the ET/HoD fall gave them a break they... won T6 twice, handily... and now are winning at this time in T5. They may hit a wall at T4 unless they get transfers, but we won't know until that match is played.

The thing is that server tiers will not always be divisible by three. I think IoJ and TC would probably be competitive, but I can't think of a third server to add to that. No matter what your ratings formula, some server will always be either bored or annoyed.

Edited by Jacbo, 16 December 2012 - 10:28 PM.


#26 chuckles79

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:55 AM

never fear, if IoJ keeps up it's trajectory, TC will go Tier 2 either next week or the next.

T1 is stuck until they nerf thieves, since everyone in Tier 1 is either playing a thief or levelling one up to play it.  The week that happens  will  completely blow open WvW.
Of course I smirk while saying that since ANet has made it clear that they think thieves need buffing, not nerfing.  I predict  that in three weeks' time every zerg on zerg fight will be nothing but everyone mashing dagger storm and whoever stops spinning first is the one that loses.

Edited by chuckles79, 17 December 2012 - 12:55 AM.


#27 Lalnuir

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

View PostXinthai, on 15 December 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Never Die is the IoJ one, Nine Dragon is SoR. So if you saw a Nine Dragon member on SoR, that's okay. :)

Nine dragon in on black gate now. Thou if they did transfer over or it's just a guild with the same name I'm not 100% sure.

#28 leonmuch

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

View PostLalnuir, on 17 December 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Nine dragon in on black gate now. Thou if they did transfer over or it's just a guild with the same name I'm not 100% sure.

Yes.  The Nine dragon has been transferred to BG

#29 RandomErrata

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:47 AM

Hey....I've got an idea to spice things up. IoJ could focus on fighting BG for a change instead of getting scraps from their table. The three sided system is supposed to be auto-balancing if people play smart. But instead IoJ helps BG weaken SoR and then BG comes in and wipes the floor with them b/c IoJ can't even handle SoR (who can't handle BG by ourselves...although it has been somewhat close at times).

Yes, I know it means that SoR might win but I'll tell you what: I'd love to double-team BG and put them in the bottom for a change if we could. As a matter of fact I'd love to do that week after week after week since it seems the ratings aren't going to change any times soon.

Cooperation is a pipe dream though.

#30 Ramanadjinn

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

View PostAetou, on 16 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then you'd get crushed one week, annihilate everyone the next, get crushed again, annihilate again... it wouldn't be balanced.  You'd have boring matches each week, they'd just involve mixing boring wins with boring defeats.

Now, if they did something like the first week of the month they promote/demote teams in repeated matchups and then let gicko determine the rest that might be fun (and would let people gauge the real difference between the tiers better) but doing it every week would be worse than the present situation.


if we accept your first assumption that the team would either be crushed as third place or crush the lower tier as first place then we must accept the notion that as it is now that same team in that same higher tier is simply being crushed repeatedly.  I would find the system that allows me respite from those "boring defeats" to have "boring wins" every other week preferable.  I'm not certain anyone would disagree.

Alternating between wins and defeats would always be preferable to me than simply staying in either a non-stop win cycle as blackgate is in or a non-stop losing cycle as IOJ is in.

Basically, what you have outlined is a good thing.  you have simply stated it in a way that makes it appear not as such.




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