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#31 Wotah

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostGerroh, on 19 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

See:

Did you even read what was written before replying?  

See:
So now we get people hopping map to map doing the event.  Also we have people standing at the event trying to get it to go and asking for others while we have the tower in question.  No matter how much you explain to them what he will do they will still stand there.

#32 Aetou

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

Having been in situations where a server is so outclassed it can't manage to do more than flip camps (because all the towers are fully upgraded and a 30 man zerg can be mobilised before 3 rams take down a reinforced door) I think that at least being able to break out gives more fun to both sides.  It helps you attack and maybe take it, it gives the defenders something to get their teeth into too.  People not sticking around and pushing on afterwards or being completely stupid and standing around aimlessly... well... those people would probably not even be there without the event and I doubt you'll really miss them.  

The changed dynamics on the borderlands maps are actually quite good, certainly more interesting in my opinion.  You can stop breakouts but only if you are alert and mobilise quickly and when servers mobilise fully to really fight a breakout... things are normally pretty epic.

#33 Gerroh

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostWotah, on 19 December 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Did you even read what was written before replying?  

See:
So now we get people hopping map to map doing the event.  Also we have people standing at the event trying to get it to go and asking for others while we have the tower in question.  No matter how much you explain to them what he will do they will still stand there.

I read what was written before. Allow me to fully explain the meaning of it.
You either:
A ) Have a bunch of people getting spawn camped with no hope of surviving and thus they get demoralized and leave
B ) Have a new event which might take some time for people to learn, but at least gives some chance for people to reclaim something.

Which would you prefer?
What exactly are you implying? Do you think you should not get an NPC commander to help you take a tower, or do you think you should get more than the NPC to help you take more than a tower?

In either case, if your server actually deserves a tower/keep/whatever, the NPC won't spawn altogether. I don't disagree with the addition of it, but I think people've no right to complain about this thing.

Edited by Gerroh, 20 December 2012 - 02:18 PM.


#34 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:40 PM

The breakout event is perfectly balanced. If you take the tower, then get 50 man zerged, you can take it back again right away. It takes 40 players to STOP this. Eventually, they get tired of it and leave you the tower.

Meanwhile, I racked up a LOT of badges (make sure you're grouped up, bag drops seem bugged when solo).

My experience was:

Took a while to get folks to understand I needed 10 people very close by the commander to start. They, uh, kinda would wander and not stay tight unless I kept asking.

We get him going and he's slow so everyone outran him and got smoked. Now they had to run back and got cut off by rival server and we got smoked. It took 2 rival servers to team up and kill the commander.

So, we started again. It took us 4 tries but finally they gave up and gave us the tower. Once we got cooking, basically, we were farming them for badges while they had to take the time to kill all the siege and kill him. In fact, we almost didn't WANT to take the tower. Our server's PPT when up by 50 because we were draining both server's forces on one measly tower AND getting FAT LUTE.

After they gave up, the commander helped us clear the tower, gave us 100 supply and left. Then, we lost the tower 10 minutes later.

So, we took it again. Lost it. Took it again. Then, they just let us keep it.

The point was me and 15 other players had a blast, actually made some gold and badges, AND created this huge distracting headache for 2 hours and finally got the tower.

But it's not about the tower. No no. It's about the havoc! You can really mess some folks up doing this. We also managed to take 2 camps because they were so distracted. Trying to take a second tower was a bit too much tho.

In my opinion, properly managed, the breakout event is a pretty good thing. You have to learn the little things (like with everything else), but once you do, it's actually quite fun. The key is making sure your team knows that it's not about the tower. It's a badge farm and a havoc maker.

#35 Aetou

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

In my opinion, properly managed, the breakout event is a pretty good thing. You have to learn the little things (like with everything else), but once you do, it's actually quite fun. The key is making sure your team knows that it's not about the tower. It's a badge farm and a havoc maker.

We used a Breakout Event to ninja a Garrison yesterday.  Got everyone sucked into the fight at the Tower. leaving about 10 pugs with the NPC and siege, then took a guild group up behind and we were on inner water before they even noticed and inside before the WP ticked open.  Taking the tower itself is definitely only one way to use it to get a foothold on a map (at least if they are sloppy defensively.)

#36 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostAetou, on 20 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

We used a Breakout Event to ninja a Garrison yesterday.  Got everyone sucked into the fight at the Tower. leaving about 10 pugs with the NPC and siege, then took a guild group up behind and we were on inner water before they even noticed and inside before the WP ticked open.  Taking the tower itself is definitely only one way to use it to get a foothold on a map (at least if they are sloppy defensively.)

I've come up with 5 strategies to use the breakout point for. And I've barely scratched the surface.

The main points that you can always count on are:

Free supply. If someone said to you, hey I'll give everyone here 10 supply if you'll wait here a minute, you'd be psyched. Think of the things 100 free, non combat generated supply can do! Even flipping a camp takes about 3 minutes (getting there, taking the guild claimed boss down, waiting for the circle to pop and God forbid you get resistance!). This is free to all, no limit. Could be 30 organized players, 10 supply each.

The toughest NPC on map. Your commander may be a bit dull, but he's hard to kill, he hits for power and he wastes the enemy's time. He will even stop to kill an enemy yak!!! I'd say 10 really determined players could kill him in 3 minutes IF there was no support around him. If you stand next to him, and have a decent group of 10 other players around you (and make sure to get in a group because the drop rate on bags screws you when solo), you WILL get badges, LOOHHOOOT, and maybe even a rare or better. I did. I made half a gold in like 20 minutes and that's with all the bills being paid up!

Supposedly he drops siege. This I've found to be very very iffy. Hopefully, this get ironed out.

He gives another 100 free supply after the tower is yours. Don't feel like defending the tower? Can't defend the tower? Drain the supply and go siege another soft target.

My next project is to see which classes work the best for this even, considering its perks.

#37 Wotah

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostGerroh, on 20 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

I read what was written before. Allow me to fully explain the meaning of it.
You either:
A ) Have a bunch of people getting spawn camped with no hope of surviving and thus they get demoralized and leave
B ) Have a new event which might take some time for people to learn, but at least gives some chance for people to reclaim something.

Which would you prefer?
What exactly are you implying? Do you think you should not get an NPC commander to help you take a tower, or do you think you should get more than the NPC to help you take more than a tower?

In either case, if your server actually deserves a tower/keep/whatever, the NPC won't spawn altogether. I don't disagree with the addition of it, but I think people've no right to complain about this thing.

I don't think it really helps.  To me it is nothing more than the ways people farmed Yaks in the beginning.  It could help start a process in a BL, but people have to stay there.  Currently in T1 (which I believe you are in) most of the time the borderlands are owned by the color that owns the citadel.  If we take our tower in your BL we get zerged by no less than 50.  If we had numbers we could actually do something about that.  

So what I see happening is people doing even more map hopping just to take a tower then going to the next boom repeat.  If for some reason people actually stayed in the zone they are standing on top of the commander to go to do it again.   At least that has been my perspective of this week.  This could all change now that people have done it at least once.

We had plenty of times where we were able to take our towers with a minimal amount of people, I really don't think the commander does anything more.  The free siege is nice, the 10 supply is nice, the 100 in tower is nice.  It's still not enticing people to stay and defend, or stay and help take more things.

#38 Wotah

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

The breakout event is perfectly balanced. If you take the tower, then get 50 man zerged, you can take it back again right away. It takes 40 players to STOP this. Eventually, they get tired of it and leave you the tower

We must play at drastically different times.  

First off we have failed with 20 on the map to take the tower with commander and the free siege he drops.  There were 30 defenders that took out all the siege he dropped and they just stayed inside the tower.  Nothing fore the commander to do if you kill everything trying to take down the door/walls/etc.

We were unable to keep 10 people in the zone to start the event a second time after the wipe.

We also could not get enough gathered when we already had it and got wiped by the 50 zerg either.  People don't want to put up with that so they don't do it.  They'll just go to another map and do it, come back later have same thing happen.  At least this is my experience with it.

#39 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

View PostWotah, on 20 December 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

We must play at drastically different times.  

First off we have failed with 20 on the map to take the tower with commander and the free siege he drops.  There were 30 defenders that took out all the siege he dropped and they just stayed inside the tower.  Nothing fore the commander to do if you kill everything trying to take down the door/walls/etc.

We were unable to keep 10 people in the zone to start the event a second time after the wipe.

We also could not get enough gathered when we already had it and got wiped by the 50 zerg either.  People don't want to put up with that so they don't do it.  They'll just go to another map and do it, come back later have same thing happen.  At least this is my experience with it.


EDIT: You still need to bring your own rams.

I told my group ahead of time that we would wipe a few times. I was lucky in that the PPT kept going up while we distracted them. We had both servers trying to stop us at one point. I kept telling them it was a badge farm and a distraction so we could get our points back elsewhere. So, we were laugh emoting and dancing and making gold and badges while our points went up.

Don't get me wrong, I had to beg, plead, promise and lie to maintain ten people, but by the end it was closer to 30 and we really started doing some damage. Had one player claiming we were wasting time and the tower would fall. Told him the tower is not the point. He asked what the point was. DEATH! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! That got a few more people to join. lol

The best part is, we had fun. Everytime they came back we kept restarting until they gave up. So funny.

I checked the map yesterday and noticed they leave the towers alone now.

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 21 December 2012 - 12:38 PM.


#40 Wotah

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

Yeah I saw that by Sunday in different time slots they took everything but the towers.  This has a way of keeping groups out of their BL's as well.

#41 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

Yup. Fine by me. We get the points without having to defend if they do. Plus, if I get a few folks, we can gank some camps and draw more of them off. It's all about resources. That and smurfs. Definitely have to account for the smurfs.

#42 ilr

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:25 AM

Shoulda known this whole deal was going to be just another empty promise like everything else they've been slackin' on simply b/c it isn't PvE.   ProTip:  Most Midtier servers didn't need this to take back 1 lousy tower.  Most dominating servers don't even protect those towers, they just re-cap them again and again and again while the undermanned rabble quickly falls apart outside the Keeps.


They coulda just made everyone in a BL who doesn't own a Keep, into a "Silver/Elite" with matching HP/damage to counter the Zergs and it woulda had very little impact on the Server Ladder while making the whole game mode about 10x more interesting for more than 2 days a week.

Edited by ilr, 27 December 2012 - 06:42 AM.


#43 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

Oi! Such a negative post there, fella.

You should see what fun we had with this event yesterday. We actually used it on a map that was solid green (we are red in this case) and took all southern camps and the two southern towers. They trebbed us from hills and took it back, then we restarted. They trebbed us and took it back and we restarted. Kept them so busy for the south that a smaller group stole 2 northern camps.

I mean we're talking about a smaller force changing the map and having a blast doing it.

Short story even shorter, the event works well. I went to that map alone. By the time I left, a commander had taken notice and come over and so had about 30 others.

Not sure what you wanted out of the event? If smaller servers don't need a tower with 100 free supply, siege littered outside, a free tower and 10 supply for each player present, then maybe that's why they're smaller servers?

200+ supply and siege and tower and a nearly invincible NPC. If I came onto your map tomorrow and offered that in /team, would you take it?

No?

Okay. Have fun then...

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 27 December 2012 - 01:42 PM.


#44 ilr

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:29 AM

1 Tower doesn't make you Competitive on the scoreboard.   But 1 Keep does.

You'll never drag anyone away from PvE with a Tower push.  A successful Keep push however....

Edited by ilr, 01 January 2013 - 02:30 AM.


#45 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

Not sure the objective is to 'draw people out of PvE'.

The objective (for Anet) was to ensure that BL Homelands couldn't be spawn camped indefinitely.

AND YES, one tower DOES make you competative on the scoreboard. If it's a tower the enemy needs to control you.

Those southern towers are like corks. Pop em open, and you can now get the island supply and your workshop supply. By then a real commander usually is told in TS "Hey, look! We've got an opening on Red BL! Let's take Bay!"

I have been the instigator of this exact set of events THRICE. First, it's me begging for 10 to start. I lie, bribe, sexy dance, motorboat just to get the event started. Once the keep goes down, all the scaredy cats come out of the hiding spots and grab the two camps. By the time the enemy returns, magically a blue pin with 30 players shows up and takes over.

Then, I go back to EB where I belong... with the crazies.

#46 lioka qiao

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:39 PM

That pretty much.  The breakout events are intended as a means to defeat a spawn camp, not that there isn't any other way to do that.  It's just when you have a few peeps runnin around a map and an enemy zerg camping your spawn and no one taking up the leadership reigns your side needs a way to break that situation.

What breakout events actually do are 2 things:
1.  Almost guaranteed control over a tower near your base.
2.  A jump start for taking the map.

The breakout event generates a lot of momentum for your team when it helps to claim a tower.  As the map leader or commander it is your job to seize that momentum and do some damage with it.  The momentum from the breakout event is enough to flip bay or hills on an enemy map or maybe even the garrison on your map.  I would think it is nigh impossible to spawn camp the citadel though.  It takes so long just to get out of the citadel and even longer to march your zerg around it to catch the enemy militia.

And on EB... you can get two breakout events.  Reclaim the keep with em if you can.




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