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#1 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Nutshell (for Barbieslayer):
I am disappointed with the lack of PvP in the game. There is a limited amount of PvP in WvW, (the NPC's guarding the camps and such are far too important for the mode to be PvP) and therefore, in order to play PvP, a player must go to sPvP. But sPvP has no impact on PvE (a large part of the game) and WvW (another large part of the game). In contrast to PvE and WvW, sPvP, being the only form of PvP in the game, is NOT nearly good enough, in the sense that it gets repetitive and boring, was called an esport by the developers, and there are few maps and modes. That is disappointing because the traits and skills were specifically designed to be focused more on player skill than trait allocation. So why make the biggest parts of the game things that DON'T focus on one player's skill vs another player's skill????????


All of my posts of my posts so far (for those too lazy to read the thread):

1. Having been playing guild wars 2 for a week now, (with a fair amount of hours put in) it seems to me that there is one missing feature that is a big weakness in the game. That is the absence of a free for all pvp mode. For instance, there would be relms based on true level (so a level 20 doesn't come across a level 80), and every player can basically kill any other player. This could also be set up in the manner of sPvP where you receive rewards for killing the most people, killing higher level people than you, ect. I was disappointed to find that while I was in PvE there was no way for me to just target another player and get into a 1v1 fight in the middle of nowhere, at random. If there was a mode like this, I would surely spend all my time in it, gaining valuable combat experience, levels, and rewards by killing other players

2. I think you don't understand what I mean when I write "disappointed". I enjoy every other aspect of the game (to a point), but am puzzled why this mode or something like it isn't in place. This is why:
I find it hard to play the game for 3+ hours at a time. I begin by leveling one or two levels in PVE. I soon tire of either exploring for exp or repeating quests and objectives to advance levels in order to continue the main quest. Then I go to sPVP, where I play a few rounds. sPVP gets repetitive after a few games to me, so I stop. Also, I don’t level my true character while sPVPing. Then I WVW for a bit, but it seems too empty, without much going on (not sure if this is just me). Last, I go back and PVE for a few minutes. After that time, the game becomes a chore. I am fine with this; I’m not looking for a game that I will play much more than that.
After reading all of your points, I have decided to amend my first post:
I would like, basically, a sPVP where you are on 2+ teams (in a bigger map than sPVP), going for kills. There would be match ups based on level, and the amount of kills you get goes to your true character’s progression and level. The game ends when a team either gets a certain amounts of points or a certain amount of kills. I would also entertain the notion of a WvW type thing where it goes on forever in that same format.

3. I personally don't understand all of the apparent focus on PvE. The devs purposely engineered the stat system for a bigger impact on player skill rather than stat allocation. So why have a larger focus on the one aspect of the game that DOESN'T match your skills with other players? As Fahrar said, "Anet wants sPvP to be more of a popular e-sport." Even in WvW, there are many dangerous monsters and NPCs that get in the way of intended PvP.

4. The NPC's guarding many of the camps in WvW may not be monsters, but are definitely not opposing players and are a huge impact on many WvW battles. Also, the amount of points earned in WvW is not based on amount of kills, but rather on amount of stuff your world has, making it possible to completely circumvent any PvP in the first place if you go up against a fairly inactive world. And even if you go against a fairly inactive world, to capture keeps there are always NPCs guarding them that you must fight. So there is no way of escaping the fact that WvW has a large PvE aspect. Secondly, sPVP is in desperate need of more modes, as mere maps do not change the fact that the structure of every single match is the exact same, and what is worse, there is no way to level your true character through playing this mode, which imo is a more "true" way to PvP than WvW, and should thus be played more by a PvP inclined player.

But since sPVP gets repetitve after a few rounds and doesn't help my true character, I may as well not waste my time there. And since to be the best at WvW you must unlock all of the traits to complete your build, I may as well just PVE until I reach a respectable amount of traits and can really hold my own in WvW. That is what I mean by PVE focus. It is much easier to become better in the game by PVEing than anything else.

5. Yes. This is correct. Therefore WvW is not pure PvP, and not very close, either. I am not, to Craywulf's point, suggesting an overhaul of the WvW system, I am suggesting an added game mode that is basically solely PvP. sPvP is obviously not intended to be a large part of the game,and WvW is, as we have discussed, not entirely PvP.

6. The issue with that is that it basically drives a player to WvW if they want to both level and have a semblance of PvP. But WvW is hugely impacted by PVE (in the forms of NPCs). Don't get me wrong, WvW is fun, and allows a player to level through ways other than PVE. However, not only is it the only way to level without doing PVE, it is also not really PvP. The new modes that would theoretically be put into place to fix this would be there to allow players to have a more "true" form of PvP, allowing them to level as well. I am not proposing to cater to specific build types, although that may be how it seems.

Edited by Asparagus Reflex, 26 December 2012 - 04:22 PM.


#2 Ragnadaam

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

To condense your point to something that isn't nit picky and heavily based on personal opinion; yes, spvp desperately needs more game types and a few more maps. But I do not think that specifically a free for all sort of game type is really exactly what is missing, or really even completely a good idea for this game, imo.

#3 gOa

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 15 December 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Having been playing guild wars 2 for a week now, (with a fair amount of hours put in) it seems to me that there is one missing feature that is a big weakness in the game. That is the absence of a free for all pvp mode. For instance, there would be relms based on true level (so a level 20 doesn't come across a level 80), and every player can basically kill any other player. This could also be set up in the manner of sPvP where you receive rewards for killing the most people, killing higher level people than you, ect. I was disappointed to find that while I was in PvE there was no way for me to just target another player and get into a 1v1 fight in the middle of nowhere, at random. If there was a mode like this, I would surely spend all my time in it, gaining valuable combat experience, levels, and rewards by killing other players.

Or just a simple way to engage into a 1v1 duel with your friends without having to transfer server and do that in the wvwvw environnement

#4 Sheepski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

Sorry but why would you go into any game that has an equal focus on pve and pvp and expect an open world pvpve system in place? That's really just taking the worst of both worlds and sticking them into one map; which only makes the griefers and gankers happy.

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#5 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

GW2 could definitely use a lot more PvP modes--amongst other features... That's for sure.

However...

You should be more disappointed in yourself for not knowing that GW2 lacks these features. The game has been out for like... 4 months now. There was tons of time to ask questions and do your own research before purchasing the game.

#6 Aodan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostRagnadaam, on 15 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

To condense your point to something that isn't nit picky and heavily based on personal opinion; yes, spvp desperately needs more game types and a few more maps. But I do not think that specifically a free for all sort of game type is really exactly what is missing, or really even completely a good idea for this game, imo.

^^ This, sorry buddy, free for all or arena's is not what this game is missing.

What this game is missing is a way to pull in fresh blood and a way to keep competitive players happy, both in WvW and Spvp.

For Spvp this would be the implementation of Custom Arena's (custom servers) so that outside leagues and ladders could form.

But instead Anet has put out a depressingly crap patch all focus around pve achievement hounds instead of helping ease the death of competitive pvp.

#7 Gilles VI

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

A FFA game mode or open world PvP has never been one of Anets interests.
I'm sorry but it's your fault not knowing this.. :/

#8 Happiness Factory

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

View PostGilles VI, on 15 December 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

A FFA game mode or open world PvP has never been one of Anets interests.
I'm sorry but it's your fault not knowing this.. :/

Idk how it could be his fault for knowing what anets interests are. He's expressing interest in a FFA and as knowledgable readers it's our responsibility to inform him that a pure FFA match would kind of ruin the point of synergizing abilities with fields and finishers.

But I'm not quite sure he even means gamemodes. I think asparagus is looking for an open world pvp. However the pve side of the game is designed to function in groups, having random open world pvp would destroy that.

@asparagus the one suggestion you mentioned is dueling. Most of the pvp community agrees a dueling feature should be implemented, mostly because people are dueling anyway in random servers you might as well make it easier and structured especially because a dueling system seems easier to implement than custom servers, obs mode, or anything else on their list lol

#9 Elyhem

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

Free for all PvP?

Hmm.  World vs. World?  



#10 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

I think you don't understand what I mean when I write "disappointed". I enjoy every other aspect of the game (to a point), but am puzzled why this mode or something like it isn't in place. This is why:
I find it hard to play the game for 3+ hours at a time. I begin by leveling one or two levels in PVE. I soon tire of either exploring for exp or repeating quests and objectives to advance levels in order to continue the main quest. Then I go to sPVP, where I play a few rounds. sPVP gets repetitive after a few games to me, so I stop. Also, I don’t level my true character while sPVPing. Then I WVW for a bit, but it seems too empty, without much going on (not sure if this is just me). Last, I go back and PVE for a few minutes. After that time, the game becomes a chore. I am fine with this; I’m not looking for a game that I will play much more than that.
After reading all of your points, I have decided to amend my first post:

I would like, basically, a sPVP where you are on 2+ teams (in a bigger map than sPVP), going for kills. There would be match ups based on level, and the amount of kills you get goes to your true character’s progression and level. The game ends when a team either gets a certain amounts of points or a certain amount of kills. I would also entertain the notion of a WvW type thing where it goes on forever in that same format.


View PostHappiness Factory, on 16 December 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Idk how it could be his fault for knowing what anets interests are. He's expressing interest in a FFA and as knowledgable readers it's our responsibility to inform him that a pure FFA match would kind of ruin the point of synergizing abilities with fields and finishers.

Thanks. ^^

Edited by Asparagus Reflex, 16 December 2012 - 04:15 AM.


#11 Gilles VI

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostHappiness Factory, on 16 December 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Idk how it could be his fault for knowing what anets interests are. He's expressing interest in a FFA and as knowledgable readers it's our responsibility to inform him that a pure FFA match would kind of ruin the point of synergizing abilities with fields and finishers.


He said he's disappointed in the game, even though it's been out for 4 months, so all info is directly available on the internet.
+ Even if he bought it at launch, while developping Anet was very clear on what was going to be in the game.
Open world PvE isn't one of the things they wanted, they said multiple times they want PvE to be cooperative..

#12 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 16 December 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

He said he's disappointed in the game, even though it's been out for 4 months, so all info is directly available on the internet.
+ Even if he bought it at launch, while developping Anet was very clear on what was going to be in the game.
Open world PvE isn't one of the things they wanted, they said multiple times they want PvE to be cooperative..
No. I said that I am disappointed in the fact that a certain part of the game I feel should be included is absent. Even so, I never included Open World PVE as the format for PVE, I wanted a game mode that had a small bit of PVE with the main aspect being Open World PVP. I have also refined my first statement. See post 10.

Edited by Asparagus Reflex, 16 December 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#13 Tregarde

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:51 PM

View PostElyhem, on 16 December 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Free for all PvP?

Hmm.  World vs. World?  

That's what I was thinking.

Have you tried WvW yet, Pale Tree? It comes pretty close to what you're asking for.

#14 CaptainKirrahe

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

Believe me, the lack of multiple types of sPvP is not something that was overlooked. I know Anet wants sPvP to be more of a popular e-sport. There are already teams that play quite a bit, just not enough of them. They decided to make one game so people could focus on that game. They wanted to make one game so everybody would know the rules to it but with slight variations to every map like svanir/chieftain, guild lords, trebuchets, etc to make it a little more interesting. As far as open world pvp, not gonna happen. It's just not Anet. WvW is your closest bet to something like that.

#15 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

I personally don't understand all of the apparent focus on PvE. The devs purposely engineered the stat system for a bigger impact on player skill rather than stat allocation. So why have a larger focus on the one aspect of the game that DOESN'T match your skills with other players? As Fahrar said, "Anet wants sPvP to be more of a popular e-sport." Even in WvW, there are many dangerous monsters and NPCs that get in the way of intended PvP.

Edited by Asparagus Reflex, 16 December 2012 - 10:10 PM.


#16 Lordkrall

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:16 PM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 16 December 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I personally don't understand all of the apparent focus on PvE. The devs purposely engineered the stat system for a bigger impact on player skill rather than stat allocation. So why have a larger focus on the one aspect of the game that DOESN'T match your skills with other players? As Fahrar said, "Anet wants sPvP to be more of a popular e-sport." Even in WvW, there are many dangerous monsters and NPCs that get in the way of intended PvP.

The "apparent focus on PvE"? There have yet to be a single major update that did not include quite big changes to the PvP/WvW part of the game. Also keep in mind that we will have major WvW additions and changes in the update coming in February and we did get a rather nice one in this update aswell.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most people are most likely playing PvE so they focus mainly on that AT THE MOMENT. Why focus fully on something that the vast majority of players never uses?

As for WvW it was never meant to be a strictly PvP area.
WvW is PvPvE, and do not kow where all these "many dangerous monsters" are in WvW though but I might have missed them when, you know, PvPing :)

#17 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:17 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 16 December 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

WvW is PvPvE, and do not kow where all these "many dangerous monsters" are in WvW though but I might have missed them when, you know, PvPing :)
The NPC's guarding many of the camps in WvW may not be monsters, but are definitely not opposing players and are a huge impact on many WvW battles. Also, the amount of points earned in WvW is not based on amount of kills, but rather on amount of stuff your world has, making it possible to completely circumvent any PvP in the first place if you go up against a fairly inactive world. And even if you go against a fairly inactive world, to capture keeps there are always NPCs guarding them that you must fight. So there is no way of escaping the fact that WvW has a large PvE aspect. Secondly, sPVP is in desperate need of more modes, as mere maps do not change the fact that the structure of every single match is the exact same, and what is worse, there is no way to level your true character through playing this mode, which imo is a more "true" way to PvP than WvW, and should thus be played more by a PvP inclined player.

But since sPVP gets repetitve after a few rounds and doesn't help my true character, I may as well not waste my time there. And since to be the best at WvW you must unlock all of the traits to complete your build, I may as well just PVE until I reach a respectable amount of traits and can really hold my own in WvW. That is what I mean by PVE focus. It is much easier to become better in the game by PVEing than anything else.

#18 Saskia the Dragonslayer

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

The problem in mmos is that the devs are working wayyyy more on pve than on pvp.I mean for me its very simple, i play mmos because of the pvp element, if i wanted a pve rpg game i can just pick up Skyrim or the witcher 2, both have better story much more things to do and much better visuals(especially the witcher 2), i am not saying the pve in gw2 is bad, its actually one of the best pve expiriance i had untill i hit lvl 43 and got bored.

So in gw2 the pvp can be fixed very easy, by adding more maps and more game modes, for example i personaly would like maps similar to the "Eye of the Storm" and "Arathi Basin" maps from world of warcraft(ive only played wow for 2 years so dont bash me :) ). I mean this point capturing mode is ok but its really gets boring, it should have maps like the 2 i said and also maps where for example every time a random player in each team is the lord(its given bonus hp and defense) and for example whoever scorex amount of kills is the winner, i really hope Anet in the future will focus more on this rather than pve stuff.




Edited by Saskia the Dragonslayer, 17 December 2012 - 02:04 AM.


#19 Lordkrall

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 16 December 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

The NPC's guarding many of the camps in WvW may not be monsters, but are definitely not opposing players and are a huge impact on many WvW battles. Also, the amount of points earned in WvW is not based on amount of kills, but rather on amount of stuff your world has, making it possible to completely circumvent any PvP in the first place if you go up against a fairly inactive world. And even if you go against a fairly inactive world, to capture keeps there are always NPCs guarding them that you must fight. So there is no way of escaping the fact that WvW has a large PvE aspect. Secondly, sPVP is in desperate need of more modes, as mere maps do not change the fact that the structure of every single match is the exact same, and what is worse, there is no way to level your true character through playing this mode, which imo is a more "true" way to PvP than WvW, and should thus be played more by a PvP inclined player.

But since sPVP gets repetitve after a few rounds and doesn't help my true character, I may as well not waste my time there. And since to be the best at WvW you must unlock all of the traits to complete your build, I may as well just PVE until I reach a respectable amount of traits and can really hold my own in WvW. That is what I mean by PVE focus. It is much easier to become better in the game by PVEing than anything else.

So, you basically want to take undefended keeps without a fight if the opposing world is inactive?
Because that is the only way to remove all those "annoying NPCs".

The NPCs NEEDS to be there in order to stop people from simply walking in to a keep in the middle of the night and take it without any opposition.

#20 Craywulf

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

WvW....take it or leave it.

#21 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 17 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

So, you basically want to take undefended keeps without a fight if the opposing world is inactive?
Because that is the only way to remove all those "annoying NPCs". I never said this. NPCs are a necessity for WvW's current format. In this respect I agree with you, and I do enjoy the WvW aspect of the game.

The NPCs NEEDS to be there in order to stop people from simply walking in to a keep in the middle of the night and take it without any opposition.
Yes. This is correct. Therefore WvW is not pure PvP, and not very close, either. I am not, to Craywulf's point, suggesting an overhaul of the WvW system, I am suggesting an added game mode that is basically solely PvP. sPvP is obviously not intended to be a large part of the game,and WvW is, as we have discussed, not entirely PvP.

#22 Korlic

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

Im confused when PvP turned into purely killing. PvP covers a much wider selection then pure kill arenas. The fact is, object based games allow for class diversity. What are you going to tell the bunker player when he is now going to get no points because all he is built for is survival? In object based pvp he has a role, as do the support players and your burst characters.

Thats why object based games are focused, and thats they object based is being worked on over other game styles.

As for the argument of why arent they updating pvp. Remember that it is 2 different development teams for pvp and pve so release of updates will vary in speed and size. You cant just throw more developers at this problem as pvp's code base is much smaller then the entirety of pve. Because of this its easier to develop for pve and thats why you see larger content updates faster. They dont have to worry about ensuring there is a balance of players skills and map balance. So give them time, and as always, if you dont enjoy the game or the direction its going you are always free to leave.

#23 Zhahz

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

Humanity is made up of all kinds of people, even some that never did fully evolve from a caveman like state.  I'm glad ANet didn't create special servers to cater to these special people.

#24 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostKorlic, on 18 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Im confused when PvP turned into purely killing. PvP covers a much wider selection then pure kill arenas. The fact is, object based games allow for class diversity. What are you going to tell the bunker player when he is now going to get no points because all he is built for is survival? In object based pvp he has a role, as do the support players and your burst characters.

........... That's why I suggested different modes. As in the mode of PvP that the bunker player likes will still be there, but there will be other modes to play as well, for the enjoyment of other players. I don't see the issue with this.

#25 Culture Shock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 15 December 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Having been playing guild wars 2 for a week now, (with a fair amount of hours put in) it seems to me that there is one missing feature that is a big weakness in the game. That is the absence of a free for all pvp mode. For instance, there would be relms based on true level (so a level 20 doesn't come across a level 80), and every player can basically kill any other player. This could also be set up in the manner of sPvP where you receive rewards for killing the most people, killing higher level people than you, ect. I was disappointed to find that while I was in PvE there was no way for me to just target another player and get into a 1v1 fight in the middle of nowhere, at random. If there was a mode like this, I would surely spend all my time in it, gaining valuable combat experience, levels, and rewards by killing other players.

I'm sorry but this is a role playing game, and I followed the design of this game since years back.  I didn't buy this game to be in a constant death match with other players.  I like to stop and take screen shots, and there are "vistas" to enjoy, it would be really stupid for someone to be almost at the top of a jumping puzzle only to have someone like YOU attack them and make them fall.  You have to understand that the design of the game world has a place for players against other players.

Think of it like Mario World and if everyone could fight you in that game you may never reach the next board in a game that has over 50 of them.  Death match games where the objective is to kill others have no place in an area designed to explore and hunt dragons.  There is no structure in every man for himself, especially in a game about "guilds" and fighting against a common foe.  Does Batman and Robin fight each other on the way to kill the Joker, hell no and it would be totally ridiculous, however opposing "guilds" may fight over territory, which is what WvW, and sPvP is for.

#26 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

I would appreciate it if everyone who is posting actually reads the thread. I find it rude for someone to take my first post as my final thought, even after I have revised my suggestions in many of my previous posts, as I did try to listen to the inputs of others.

#27 Barbieslayer

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 18 December 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

I would appreciate it if everyone who is posting actually reads the thread. I find it rude for someone to take my first post as my final thought, even after I have revised my suggestions in many of my previous posts, as I did try to listen to the inputs of others.

If it bothers you that much, might I suggest you edit your OP to reflect your current thoughts. It's kinda rude to expect people to read through your thread.

#28 Asparagus Reflex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

??? I will, but if you're going to post, wouldn't you rather know what the views of the OP is, how he/she arrived at those views, and the views of other people in the thread before you post and make a fool of yourself by re-iterating what another person had said?

#29 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:17 PM

View PostBarbieslayer, on 18 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

If it bothers you that much, might I suggest you edit your OP to reflect your current thoughts. It's kinda rude to expect people to read through your thread.

That's funny, cause I have seen many times on this forum people calling you (not you) "many things" because you didn't follow the thread. He said only that he would appreciate. I don't know how can you think that is being rude.

View PostCulture Shock, on 18 December 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

I'm sorry but this is Guild Wars 2 (fixed), and I followed the design of this game since years back.  I didn't buy this game to be in a constant death match with other players.  I like to stop and take screen shots, and there are "vistas" to enjoy, it would be really stupid for someone to be almost at the top of a jumping puzzle only to have someone like YOU attack them and make them fall.  You have to understand that the design of the game world has a place for players against other players.


Ahem... WoW... Ahem... WAR... Ahem...

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 18 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.


#30 Korlic

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostAsparagus Reflex, on 18 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

........... That's why I suggested different modes. As in the mode of PvP that the bunker player likes will still be there, but there will be other modes to play as well, for the enjoyment of other players. I don't see the issue with this.

You arent reading my post correctly. You want these different games, but they will cater to individual classes and build styles where their current format combines play styles. Thats why its the only one in there currently, and thats why it is focused. New styles will come out eventually, but they are trying to perfect their competitive game as to create an E-Sport. I dont see the issue with this.




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