69 replies to this topic

[Bloodtau]

network errors, players being put into individual instances, all the old stuff that happened in the first few weeks.
gg arenanet, what ever you pressed broke it again...

[Green]

Yeah, I had the issue with separate instances with AC last week, and guildies had that issues with Tixx yesterday. Does it erk me, sure, but its a new game.

For all the things that need to go right for things to run smoothly, its amazing that more things don't go wrong. When I see a bug I report it on the official forums then I shrug it off.

Please try not to sound so condescending, you are not even remotely capable of understanding the complexity of the code in this game.

[Bloodtau]

Green, on 17 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Yeah, I had the issue with separate instances with AC last week, and guildies had that issues with Tixx yesterday. Does it erk me, sure, but its a new game.

For all the things that need to go right for things to run smoothly, its amazing that more things don't go wrong. When I see a bug I report it on the official forums then I shrug it off.

Please try not to sound so condescending, you are not even remotely capable of understanding the complexity of the code in this game.

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

[Waar Kijk Je Naar]

Green, on 17 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Does it erk me, sure, but its a new game.

That argument was valid 2 weeks after release. We're almost 4 months in now, the game is no longer new.

[Green]

Bloodtau, on 17 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

Lol, yeah right, anyone who knows anything about programming would not post a rant on a fan site if they hope to notify the company in charge of the issue. They know to submit a bug report via the proper channel(s) and understand it is normal to have minor bugs that we've noted at this point in the game.

Or your just an smug a**hole programmer who thinks he knows more than Anet and is happy to do nothing to try and fix the issue (by reporting) to improve the game experience for anyone including himself.

[Var]

Bloodtau, on 17 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

I expect to see you make the perfect game come a few years from now then, let me know how that goes.

[RaoulDukeHST]

Bloodtau, on 17 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

Why didn't they hire you if you're so good?I graduated from film school,that doesn't make me Federico Fellini

[Green]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 17 December 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

That argument was valid 2 weeks after release. We're almost 4 months in now, the game is no longer new.

Ok, perhaps "new" is not the best term to use. But with the amount of new content and code being added to the game (recent update, huge changes) , its not the same program as it was at release. so yes, its a "new" program for lack of a better term..

Thinking back to the early days of WoW, they had bugs for months after release to the point it was sometimes completely unplayable. And that was the original game code, no major updates like GW2 when it was as young. What we have is a nuisance at best with the ability to workaround, i.e. exit and re-enter the dungeon type thing.

Edited by Green, 17 December 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Shizu]

It's not the bugs themselves.

It's how they manage to fix something, break it again, fix it again, break it again at every single major update.
Same goes for TP and guild chat.

I don't know about the modern generation of sheep players, but I'm tired of paying to be a beta tester. They should pay me to test their garbage, if anything.

Edited by Shizu, 17 December 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Green]

Green, on 17 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Lol, yeah right, anyone who knows anything about programming would not post a rant on a fan site if they hope to notify the company in charge of the issue. They know to submit a bug report via the proper channel(s) and understand it is normal to have minor bugs that we've noted at this point in the game.

Or your just an smug a**hole programmer who thinks he knows more than Anet and is happy to do nothing to try and fix the issue (by reporting) to improve the game experience for anyone including himself.

I'll give you a chance to show your big brain, tell the world what programming language(s) GW2 is written in. Be as specific as you can and include any additional technical details you can to prove me wrong. Don't simply try Google an answer, I have access to the same search results as you do, you don't want embarrass yourself.

Edited by Green, 17 December 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[Feathermoore]

Shizu, on 17 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

It's not the bugs themselves.

It's how they manage to fix something, break it again, fix it again, break it again at every single major update.
Same goes for TP and guild chat.

I don't know about the modern generation of sheep players, but I'm tired of paying to be a beta tester. They should pay me to test their garbage, if anything.

This is the major downside of the movement to turn Beta testing into a marketing scheme instead of an actual QoL test.

[this a pointed]

Green, on 17 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Ok, perhaps "new" is not the best term to use. But with the amount of new content and code being added to the game (recent update, huge changes) , its not the same program as it was at release. so yes, its a "new" program for lack of a better term..

However, the content that is in the game since release isn't "new", but it's still bugged,

[Asomal]

"And here we are again folks, in the middle of the Tyrian's Assembly savana. While sneaking upon some users nearby, our team managed to capture some rare footage of some almighty white-knights, in their natural habitat. An enraged user, Whine the Pooh, created a pointless topic in the very top of this section. How doomed he is, when he finds out, that he is surrounded by foes.
Slowly, the white-knights lurk toward their prey, one by one. A brutal scene, savagery in it's paragon. Defenseless, Whine the Pooh is no match against "If you're so good, why don't you make it yourself?" attack, used by the white-knights.

And that's all for today! We'll have a look at the "Hall of Heroes" next week, to find out who, among it's users, have the bigest e-peen! Until then."

And just to end this non sense: You don't need to be a mechanic to be able to make a complaint about your broken car.

Edited by Asomal, 17 December 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Menehune]

Shizu, on 17 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

It's not the bugs themselves.

It's how they manage to fix something, break it again, fix it again, break it again at every single major update.
Same goes for TP and guild chat.

I don't know about the modern generation of sheep players, but I'm tired of paying to be a beta tester. They should pay me to test their garbage, if anything.

I present the following statements. Make of them what you will.

- GW2 contains 15+ GIGAbytes of code, graphic/video assets, scripts and configuration files on the client side with who knows how many GB on the server side with additional networking, load balancing and monitoring software. The "ancient" generation of players played games of ca. 64 KILObytes while the "prehistoric" players made do with 8 KILObytes or less.

- Even in a small confined space with a limited number of players and mobs, the number of possible actions + interactions verges on the infinite.

- Little of modern games are directly coded in standardized programming languages. Most development is done with scrpts and an in-house developed scripting engine and/or other proprietary tool(s). That means that bugs in the game can actually be caused by bugs in the engines/tools and the cause of the bugs may not be easily determined.

For those that think that they know all about game development or even software development in general and fixing bugs/changing features is oh so easy because they are taking some course in college, I only have a tired snort.

[jirayasan]

Bloodtau, on 17 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

A degree of programming will not make you understand.

[Shizu]

Menehune, on 17 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

...

I present the following statements, mr. white knight. Make of them what you will.

I know NOTHING about coding and making videogames. I am not supposed to know anything because, you know, it's not my job.
Surprisingly enough, I don't give a * about the complexity of a videogame, in the same way I don't give a * about the complexity of an airplane or the complexity of cooking a perfect lasagna.
But somehow everyone expects an airplane to not explode in a fiery ball of death when they board it and their lasagna to not taste like faeces. Why should it be different for videogames?

Because modern players are sheep, that's why. Because modern players get married with videogames, instead of playing them and moving away from mediocre products.

This doesn't mean I approve this kind of forum crusades or think they'll ever accomplish anything.
I use my wallet to get my message across and I think more people should do the same.
But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

If you think it's acceptable to play a bugged piece of garbage, because most major mmorpgs had many bugs at launch and because videogames are oh so complex, be my guest.  Enjoy the current miserable state of the genre and enjoy mediocrity.

Edited by Shizu, 17 December 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[MazingerZ]

Feathermoore, on 17 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

This is the major downside of the movement to turn Beta testing into a marketing scheme instead of an actual QoL test.

It's an issue of not having a PTR because they don't want to funnel players who could be potential cash shop cows off the persisted realms and playing F2P on a non-persistent system.

I will be very surprised if they ever get a PTR up and running.  They need one.  They can't regression test worth a shit.

[Grim_Ling]

I do agree with the OP... it is very frustrating that they still send out untested, "broken" material.

Also the arguement that I send out is; I myself, am an architect.  If I design and send out a building plans that are there and ok to be in but crashes and burns to the ground means that I am still liable for my poor decision.  (yes i know this is different in real life than a game...)
If A-net was made to stand behind their product and create something that worked before letting the public delve in they would care a bit more about what they were putting out.

In my opinon they do need to get their act together and produce a working product before making it live... I understand that they will have a few bugs... but constantly reoccuring ones are major issues....
I don't think I can do it better but it's not my job to... I get paid to bring you a safe, comfortable, and sound home... they get paid to bring you a fun, enjoyable and working game... the first 2 are in the eyes of the beholder... the 3rd one is black and white...

Also I don't think he wanted to make a formal complaint on this forum... he was just placing a standard frustration out in the world for other people to comment on... (and for all you know he did hit that little button built into the game to report these major bugs....)

Edited by Grim_Ling, 17 December 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[davadude]

Bloodtau, on 17 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do video game programming as a degree, so yes, i do.

Video game programming - a degree?  As long as you know that serious studios scoff at those degrees, good for you.

The problem here is that the dungeons were all rolled out within one build.  If you're seriously taking a degree like that, you should know that bugs, problems, and issues arise at any random moment, even if done multiple times.  The second you learn a basic for or do-while loop into the baby steps of java, you experience this.  These dungeon instances were tested in advance, but a mass rollout will always differ from a small beta test.

Give it time.  It's the best to do.

[MazingerZ]

Which is why Feathermoore said there's an issue with broad beta tests being marketing ploys rather than serious QoL measures.

Everyone understands there are bugs.

Its inexcusable to have that type of customer-facing stuff still having issues four months after release.  Either you have crappy debugging practices, lack the manpower or you don't give a shit.

It's even worse when regressive shit creeps back in, because in theory you've got a test strategy to make sure those instances never happen again.

[FoxBat]

Some of the stuff you are seeing "fixing and breaking" isn't new code. It's stuff that "randomly" breaks under heavy load (lots of users across all servers) and breaks much less often under light load. There's a crush of people playing wintersday dungeons now and suddenly things are broken again just like release... there was no real bug fix and then an un-fix, it's the exact same issues that were never fixed since day one. While there are benefits to PTR (even though it doesn't fit their business model) it's not going to catch these sorts of things. We've been playing live with the bad code for months and they still can't figure it out, in part because they need people to not get bored/quit in disgust to see those problems that only show up during large activity.

Edited by FoxBat, 17 December 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[UNTYPABLExNAME]

Do you even lift have a bachelor's degree?

[Coren]

Shizu, on 17 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I present the following statements, mr. white knight. Make of them what you will.

I know NOTHING about coding and making videogames. I am not supposed to know anything because, you know, it's not my job.
Surprisingly enough, I don't give a * about the complexity of a videogame, in the same way I don't give a * about the complexity of an airplane or the complexity of cooking a perfect lasagna.
But somehow everyone expects an airplane to not explode in a fiery ball of death when they board it and their lasagna to not taste like faeces. Why should it be different for videogames?

Because modern players are sheep, that's why. Because modern players get married with videogames, instead of playing them and moving away from mediocre products.

This doesn't mean I approve this kind of forum crusades or think they'll ever accomplish anything.
I use my wallet to get my message across and I think more people should do the same.
But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

If you think it's acceptable to play a bugged piece of garbage, because most major mmorpgs had many bugs at launch and because videogames are oh so complex, be my guest.  Enjoy the current miserable state of the genre and enjoy mediocrity.

Then I guess every software that ever comes out is designed by retarded monkeys because they keep bringing out new versions.

I get what you're saying. Why would something that's been repaired be broken again? Same reason that they bring out new and improved pumps, engines, chips and what not and they have the same problems, not enough foresight or couldn't see repercussions further down the line.

Excusable? No. Understandable? Yes

[Matsy]

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Game Programming, its not exactly worth much at all in any situation, all it shows is that you have a fundamental knowledge of programming and the structure of games etc.  I couldn't walk up to Anet's office, get a job there and fix all the bugs in the game and everything will be perfect.  I lack the knowledge and experience required for such a role and so does everyone else who says "well I have a degree in game programming so i know what i'm talking about HUR DUR" I can't even get a job anywhere at the moment let alone a programming one.

Bugs will happen, they are expected to happen, you can't get around the fact that bugs will happen every single time you change one little thing, its the nature of the beast, bugs will appear when ever they like, its like they are alive or something, they just pop up out of no where most the time.

They should be testing new code thoroughly before they put a patch forward and try to fix as many bugs as they can that come up.  I don't know how hard this for Anet to do, but they are releasing content that they haven't tested that well by the looks of things or they don't have enough testing staff to check things properly.  Even bugs that have been there since beta are still not fixed.  

It would be better if Anet actually acknowledged this and not try to keep everything hush hush and also communicate with the playerbase via the offical forums regularly giving an update status with a list of things they are doing to fix things etc, and then actually follow through on what they said they are doing (still waiting for a ranger pet fix after months) among other things they said they would do but still haven't.

It is understandable to a degree, GW2 is a massive game and combing through it all looking for the causes of bugs will be an enormous task.  But at some point you have to think about all the bugs that are still in the game (dungeons,end-game events, zergs invisible, chat broken etc etc) you all know what they are there are lots of them... and the frankly crappy unfinished content rushed out with massive bugs.  And this is all what will come out, unfinished content rushed out until the player-base actually stand up and say "No, this is not right".  

To be perfectly honest, Guild Wars 2, was never "done" its still in beta as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Matsy, 17 December 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Waar Kijk Je Naar]

Matsy, on 17 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I can't even get a job anywhere at the moment let alone a programming one.

Get into PHP, lots of jobs there atm

[Shizu]

Coren, on 17 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Then I guess every software that ever comes out is designed by retarded monkeys because they keep bringing out new versions.

We are not talking about improving a working product or polishing some details.

We are talking about major issues in the very foundations of the game.
Dungeons. Trading post. Major end-game events. Invisible zergs. The guild chat.
All of this, after five years of the "when it's ready" bullshit.

I'm not necessarily criticizing GW2 itself. I'm sick and tired of this genre and the current trend of delivering unfinished early-beta trash.
Apparently many people think it's acceptable because every big title has many major problems at launch , wich is even more sickening than the bugs themselves. In short, modern gamers are happy to settle for mediocrity, because it's the current standard.

[XPhiler]

@shizu

some bugs are a result of the game under load. Its really hard to test against such thing cause its hard to really simulate load. Most of the bugs we experiance now didnt happen in BWEs. In fact I dont believe I experianced any of the bugs you mentioned during the beta. Did you?

[Bloodtau]

davadude, on 17 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Video game programming - a degree?  As long as you know that serious studios scoff at those degrees, good for you.

You keep thinking that.

[AKGeo]

Green, on 17 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Lol, yeah right, anyone who knows anything about programming would not post a rant on a fan site if they hope to notify the company in charge of the issue. They know to submit a bug report via the proper channel(s) and understand it is normal to have minor bugs that we've noted at this point in the game.

Or your just an smug a**hole programmer who thinks he knows more than Anet and is happy to do nothing to try and fix the issue (by reporting) to improve the game experience for anyone including himself.

Why did you immediately resort to name-calling and accusations? Do you think it's going to help your position by attacking the guy for having a legitimate gripe?

What if he DID have a hand in creating a game that has a relatively high success rate and low amount of bugs for the complexity and size of the development team around it? Would he not then have a right to claim that a game such as GW2 with a crew the size of Anet shouldn't have a series of repeating bugs every time an update rolls out?

[Lucas Ashrock]

Haha party split again, the most complained pathetic bug at launch is back, i was missing this junk.
As always, Anet never disillude to renew old bugs restored

davadude, on 17 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Video game programming - a degree?  As long as you know that serious studios scoff at those degrees, good for you.

Actually, considering the status of the game from launch till today, i guess there are way more "noobs" if this is how you categorize those future talents on their staff than you imagine, considering the overgrowing amount of bugs and old bugs restored

p.s. Didn't they kicked out a lot of garbage from their company, recently?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 17 December 2012 - 09:43 PM.