71 replies to this topic

[MikeSr]

Is this the future of World vs World vs World ?

I am seeing an ever increasing number of thiefs in WvWvW lately. My friends who play in a non-Tier 1 have also reported the same thing. Have you noticed the same?

How do you think this development will impact the already thin player base of WvWvW? Do you think more and more people will hop on to Thiefwagon? Share your views and any experiences you have had recently.


(This thread is not about calling thief OP or UP, but rather discuss the alarming increase in their numbers)

[Azilyi]

Sure thiefs are annoying.  But like most games, I think it's only the most prolific class because it's independent.  Not necessarily because they are OP.

I would make this whole argument again, but anyone who has been playing RPGs for any measure of time will have heard this in every game on every forum.  Ever.  EVER.

Edited by Azilyi, 17 December 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[ShezuTsukai]

Eventually you have to try to take a keep and thieves are near worthless for that.

I'm also betting that people will get tired of trying to gank others when players are only running in groups of 3 or more to avoid getting ganked.

[Bina]

It is hard to spot sarcasm in forum posts sometimes.

Thiefs are not OP <---- Sarcasm right?

[Beastgate]

Never noticed this in tier 1.

[Azilyi]

Bina, on 17 December 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Thiefs are not OP

You heard it here first!

[Beastgate]

Non-thief: Thieves are OP
Thief: Thieves are not OP

Amazing right?

[NuclearDonut]

The more Thieves the better, I always say! I've come out on top against 3 or 4 Thieves at once while playing my tanky Engie/Guardian alts. They're annoying when they sneak attack me in the jumping puzzle, but when I see a gank-squad coming at me from far away I know I'm probably going to survive. Thieves are like every other rogue class: if you make a mistake, they'll eat you alive. If you don't make any mistakes, they're effectiveness is comically bad.

[Bina]

Thief is my main.

[Cake is Cake]

Are there more thieves who go failburst -> stealth -> run away? Maybe, but I see less thieves in groups actually doing things.

[DreadlockrastaGW]

As much as I love ganking on my theif, and I love me some ganking...In MY OPINION, I think it is safe to say thieves are eventually going to get nerfed into the stoneage. With the fractal rings, and full crit dmg pwr prec I can pretty much 2hit any light/medium armor player, and if there are people around, i will still get the Killing blow, because some people still don't understand how shadow refuge works.

Predictions for next patch
--Buff to engineers
-- Uber buff to hunters, making them OP
--Huge nerf to theives
--No buffs or nerfs to necro (huehuehue, people don't know how OP necros are)
--QQ everywhere.

[Nohkturnal]

I have been seeing a lot of the gank group style thieves lately.  Unless they are actively going around taking camps or killing yaks I mostly ignore them as they tend to just roam the areas near waypoints and kill single players coming out.  I personally prefer to run with  a guild group and have built my character around a condition build rather than the glass cannon.

ShezuTsukai, on 17 December 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Eventually you have to try to take a keep and thieves are near worthless for that.

I'm writing this assuming you mean that thieves are worthless in a group setting and not as an individual class attempting to take a keep?

If that is the case I have to disagree, a condition build thief with a shortbow is great for laying ae bleeds and poisons on enemies at the wall and forcing them to fall back.  Shadow Refuge on your ram operators is also a very useful heal to throw down and pulling enemies off the wall with scorpion wire is also useful.

I agree that there are some balance issues with the burst damage that d/d thieves are able to achieve, however the trade off for the high damage is that to achieve that most thieves are not running a stun breaker and are extremely squishy.

[NuclearDonut]

DreadlockrastaGW, on 17 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

As much as I love ganking on my theif, and I love me some ganking...In MY OPINION, I think it is safe to say thieves are eventually going to get nerfed into the stoneage. With the fractal rings, and full crit dmg pwr prec I can pretty much 2hit any light/medium armor player, and if there are people around, i will still get the Killing blow, because some people still don't understand how shadow refuge works.

Predictions for next patch
--Buff to engineers
-- Uber buff to hunters, making them OP
--Huge nerf to theives
--No buffs or nerfs to necro (huehuehue, people don't know how OP necros are)
--QQ everywhere.

I don't have a Thief because I don't really like being a sneaky ninja, so my opinion is about as unbiased as it gets. I don't think Thieves are deserving of any nerfs EXCEPT being able steal while performing another action. If Steal cancels a current animation Thieves would be fine to me. That combined with a fix to rendering issues and I can't see how anyone can call Thieves OP.

[lioka qiao]

DreadlockrastaGW, on 17 December 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

As much as I love ganking on my theif, and I love me some ganking...In MY OPINION, I think it is safe to say thieves are eventually going to get nerfed into the stoneage. With the fractal rings, and full crit dmg pwr prec I can pretty much 2hit any light/medium armor player, and if there are people around, i will still get the Killing blow, because some people still don't understand how shadow refuge works.

Predictions for next patch
--Buff to engineers
-- Uber buff to hunters, making them OP
--Huge nerf to theives
--No buffs or nerfs to necro (huehuehue, people don't know how OP necros are)
--QQ everywhere.

Anet has already stated that they are not going to do any drastic buffs or nerfs but more gradual changes.  They already had an opportunity to nuke thieves into oblivion but they didn't.  The gradual changes are to reduce QQ and ensure that balance is maintained in the face of changes that are made.  Needless to say, *NEVER* expect a huge nerf or buff to any class from one patch.

[The Shadow]

People blame Thieves when they should be blaming themselves and culling.

Putting it bluntly; if you get killed in 2 seconds by a Thief... you suck.

[The_Tree_Branch]

NuclearDonut, on 17 December 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

I don't have a Thief because I don't really like being a sneaky ninja, so my opinion is about as unbiased as it gets. I don't think Thieves are deserving of any nerfs EXCEPT being able steal while performing another action. If Steal cancels a current animation Thieves would be fine to me. That combined with a fix to rendering issues and I can't see how anyone can call Thieves OP.

Other classes have similar mechanics. Eles with lightning flash during channeling spells. Those huge backstab thieves who make use of this don't have the trait points to spend to make themselves uber hard to kill while invis.

[NuclearDonut]

The_Tree_Branch, on 18 December 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Other classes have similar mechanics. Eles with lightning flash during channeling spells. Those huge backstab thieves who make use of this don't have the trait points to spend to make themselves uber hard to kill while invis.

Well the Ele combo is Churning Earth+Lightning Flash correct? I still find that combo insanely easy to dodge, but I often get caught off guard by a sudden C&D+Steal+Backstab combo, that one is much more difficult to dodge.

[MesmersFromHouseElara]

Call me crazy but I don't think anything is OP atm, especially in WvW when you can (at the drop of a hat) have an extremely outnumbered fight on your hands. for your benefit or theirs.

As to the OP, I haven't noticed anything. Maybe it's just your server/time of play

[NotKMoose]

Strong logic ITT:  Everyone and their mother is rolling a thief; surely it's not because thieves are amazing at ganking and staying alive

[Im Legion]

NotKMoose, on 18 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Strong logic ITT:  Everyone and their mother is rolling a thief; surely it's not because thieves are amazing at ganking and staying alive

Obviously it's because people like a challenge, and there is nothing more challenging than playing a thief.

[dawdler]

The Shadow, on 18 December 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Putting it bluntly; if you get killed in 2 seconds by a Thief... you suck.

Phew, thank god. I actually thought it meant that the player behind the Theif was good but that confirm it, its just me. Of course there arent any theives that can do this insta-kill combo because they are good players, that's just stupid lol.

[DreadlockrastaGW]

Honestly, I think the initiative system is a dumb idea to have with only one class. It is pretty much the reason thieves are OP.

[Yski]

I'd like to see steal given a short cast time to prevent it from being used while using other skills. I don't personally have a problem with others trying to spike me, but seeing thieves everywhere puts me off from using my own thief.

dawdler, on 18 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Phew, thank god. I actually thought it meant that the player behind the Theif was good but that confirm it, its just me. Of course there arent any theives that can do this insta-kill combo because they are good players, that's just stupid lol.

Yup. You can always buy a few extra seconds with a stunbreaker followed by dodge or two, no matter how good they are, so if you really let someone take you from full health to no health in less than like five seconds or so you only have yourself to blame.

That's doesn't mean the spike doesn't give the spiker a huge advantage by making you use all your panic buttons early on, but you shouldn't be dying on the actual spike.

[Briar]

I thief in WvW to avoid being attacked by a thief in WvW; that way I can stealth to protect myself from stealth

... Wait What?

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Send more thieves! They taste like chicken!

As soon as I see some numb nuts spinning around spitting daggers I get ready to hit F and collect my badges. I have an 80 thief and play him pretty well, but my 50 mesmer eats thieves for supper.

I love when they try to bully me 1 vs 1 and end up fleeing in 6 seconds.

Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are thieves, and played well, they are a dangerous type. But so few players will ever have the skill set to play a thief well that in most cases, when I see a thief they pop out in bright colors and seem to say "I is bad @ game. com taek mi shiiit."

So, I wouldn't worry about thieves becoming the class of choice in WvW. I never here a call go our for a thief when I'm on. Perma stealth aside, they're not such a big deal.

[prince vingador]

for mesmer and necros =no problem(unless u get jumped=14k damage) but the other classes suffer a lot specially rangers.i think no class should be able to kill another in 2 seconds.

[ShabbyDude]

Because of the culling issues, lots of times you do not see the theif after he's hit you with backstab.  Then you have to react and he's already done his steal and everything else.  Have fun with that.  Also, thieves make good Dolyak killing squads.  Get a few to go kill one and then simply just invis in front of everyone continuously.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

ShabbyDude, on 18 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Because of the culling issues, lots of times you do not see the theif after he's hit you with backstab.  Then you have to react and he's already done his steal and everything else.  Have fun with that.  Also, thieves make good Dolyak killing squads.  Get a few to go kill one and then simply just invis in front of everyone continuously.

If you can't see them, they can't see you. It literally will not reveal a culled player unless it also reveals that player to the other one. It's a one for one. You are mistaking stealth for culling. Trust me on this, if they are culled for you, they match it up that you are culler for them. The issues come from AoEs which hit ALL players, culled or not.

Stated more clearly: You are only revealed to the players you see, but AoEs can still land from other players.

[ShabbyDude]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 18 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

If you can't see them, they can't see you. It literally will not reveal a culled player unless it also reveals that player to the other one. It's a one for one. You are mistaking stealth for culling. Trust me on this, if they are culled for you, they match it up that you are culler for them. The issues come from AoEs which hit ALL players, culled or not.

Stated more clearly: You are only revealed to the players you see, but AoEs can still land from other players.

Not really.  There have been many many times a theif will start hitting me with his pistols and I won't see him till after his little Thief NPCs are up.  It takes me 1s for me to see him after that, other people take up to 3s.

[Craywulf]

Elementalist were all a rage in the first week of WvW, Then Guardians, then Mesmers....the Thief is trending now. This is what is called the metagame. Just relax, change will happen. I'm betting The Necromancer is up next because the increased speed buff.