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Thief vs Thief vs Thief


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#61 The Shadow

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostVal367, on 21 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Really? So 4k steal, 3k c&d, 4.5k backstab, 2k wildstrike, 2k lotus ... all while I can't move or dodge isn't OP and I am to blame?? GTFO. I'll bet you are one of those gutless fotm types.

Of course if you can survive that initial ridiculous onslaught .. then they turn tail and run like girls when you try to fight them.

Cheap and gutless .. that's most of the thieves around.

Roll on nerfs - there is no other prof that can get away with this much damage and still have outs to run and hide.

Angry? yep - still doesn't change the fact that they need nerfing

Plenty of videos on the internet of various classes fighting fotm Thieves and not dying in 2 seconds but in fact winning the encounter.

Maybe you just need to stop sucking so bad.

Angry? Yep. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn to play.

#62 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

View PostVal367, on 21 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Really? So 4k steal, 3k c&d, 4.5k backstab, 2k wildstrike, 2k lotus ... all while I can't move or dodge isn't OP and I am to blame?? GTFO. I'll bet you are one of those gutless fotm types.

Of course if you can survive that initial ridiculous onslaught .. then they turn tail and run like girls when you try to fight them.

Cheap and gutless .. that's most of the thieves around.

Roll on nerfs - there is no other prof that can get away with this much damage and still have outs to run and hide.

Angry? yep - still doesn't change the fact that they need nerfing

Just a suggestion. Stun break might help. And if you solo, use appropriate food and trait up to defend. What class do you play? I can give you a counter for each class against these 'gutless cowards'.

Remember, what you see as gutless is their primary defense. Some classes wear heavy armor. No honor. Can't fight well enough without being wrapped in steel? GUTLESS. Uses magic? FROM RANGE??? GUTLESS!!!

See, there are no noble fights. No courage or glory. It's kill or be killed the way you do it best. Just because they don't fight the same way you do doesn't mean they're gutless. Trust me, every encounter a thief is in they are more likely than not to die if they miss even ONE trick. It's pretty ballsy, IMO.

And you can stop it. I can tell you how. There are 50 ways.

#63 Swarfega

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Thief's are very slippery. But they are supposed to be.  At times though they can be way too slippery.  One person trolling a group of players by stealthing all the time is funny to see unless your the one being trolled. I can easily see why thief's annoy people.

The best advice I can give is if you struggling against a profession is to go play that profession.  You'll learn how they perform and therefore their weaknesses.  This is typical of any game to be honest.

#64 Xentin

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

Ele and Warriors can do even better/same. Today on WvWvW I saw ele that killed 4 people... Guard got killed by 2 ele's shots, gg.  Saw also Warrior owning 3 people and taking alone tower lord and npcs ( veteran guards got killed by one hundred blades.... what the...) he entered by a glitch. And is that so thief need a nerf? U got to be kidding. Thief can be annyoing but never can kill 3-4 people at once like two those classes did.

Edited by Xentin, 21 December 2012 - 04:30 PM.


#65 Fittleluck

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostXentin, on 21 December 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Ele and Warriors can do even better/same. Today on WvWvW I saw ele that killed 4 people... Guard got killed by 2 ele's shots, gg.  Saw also Warrior owning 3 people and taking alone tower lord and npcs ( veteran guards got killed by one hundred blades.... what the...) he entered by a glitch. And is that so thief need a nerf? U got to be kidding. Thief can be annyoing but never can kill 3-4 people at once like two those classes did.

People don't bitch about Ele/Warrior because you can see them when they run away. ;)

Edited by Fittleluck, 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#66 Xentin

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

Serious problem.... Most of the time I am catching thieves even if they stealth. L2P issue? I dont get it why most of people dont dare to smash with aoes and even normal attacks the place where they saw shadow refuge or last place of thief. Most of the time I am easily owning thiefs thanks to this... Seriously ppl try to think a bit more in fights.  Better to QQ about one thief that cant do too much to a whole team than qq about eles raping whole teams :D. Hope ANet knows whats right and whats bad for game.


@EDIT
Oh and yeah, thief op:

Edited by Xentin, 21 December 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#67 johnnyutah21

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

View PostXentin, on 21 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Serious problem.... Most of the time I am catching thieves even if they stealth. L2P issue? I dont get it why most of people dont dare to smash with aoes and even normal attacks the place where they saw shadow refuge or last place of thief. Most of the time I am easily owning thiefs thanks to this... Seriously ppl try to think a bit more in fights.  Better to QQ about one thief that cant do too much to a whole team than qq about eles raping whole teams :D. Hope ANet knows whats right and whats bad for game.

Of course if you spec out just to stop a thief you can survive, but the thief can just stealth run away when it's no longer in his favor.  On my D/D ele I typically get into a stalemate with thieves where we just salute to each other because we can't take each other down.  If I roll hammer/longbow warrior I can survive thief attacks as well.  

It's just annoying that when I can beat a thief they just poof and run away. However, if I'm losing it's game over.

#68 The_Blades

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

This comming from a thief.

Yeah we're op, only a dimwit leet-wannabe argues we're not. Its so easy its not even funny. So yes, make the thief balanced, both in stealth and damage output, just dont kill the class.

#69 RandolfRa

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 21 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

...
Whether they call it culling or just bull shit (like me), I don't care, but the thing I have problems with is this: characters aren't being rendered after they leave stealth. In bigger fights they aren't necessarily rendered at all.
The "server based culling" is differend, and I think you described it right. Anyone who played costume brawl during the halloween event knows how it works.

Edited by RandolfRa, 21 December 2012 - 09:22 PM.


#70 Val367

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 21 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Plenty of videos on the internet of various classes fighting fotm Thieves and not dying in 2 seconds but in fact winning the encounter.

Maybe you just need to stop sucking so bad.

Angry? Yep. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn to play.

lol - my mesmer has around 17k and bascially got taken from 100% to 0 while locked .. there is no other class that can hide and put that much burst out when they close.

Even if I had a stun break on my bar, it has a CD so when the cowardly little $#%@ realises I used it, he can then use his I win stealth and come back and rinse/repeat.

#71 The Shadow

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:56 AM

View PostVal367, on 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

lol - my mesmer has around 17k and bascially got taken from 100% to 0 while locked .. there is no other class that can hide and put that much burst out when they close.

Even if I had a stun break on my bar, it has a CD so when the cowardly little $#%@ realises I used it, he can then use his I win stealth and come back and rinse/repeat.

Except for the fact that the only skill "locking" you is on a 45 second cool down.

It's very easy to pre-emptively mitigate a Thief's burst. You just have to see them coming. The fact that you sometimes can't is the fault of culling, not the class. As for being "locked" from 17k hp to 0. That's no one's fault but your own. How do I know this?

I'm a Thief, a much better Thief than the majority of Thieves you will find roaming around with the fotm Basilisk Back-Stab bull... and yet I can't kill a good Mesmer in 2 seconds. On the other hand, I can kill loads of sup-bar/ average Mesmers relatively easily, possibly while wearing a blind-fold. I wouldn't know, I've never tried. But is that a result of class-choice or individual skill/ understanding or even time sink?

Probably a mixture.. but inherently.. Thieves are meant to be good at roaming and dealing with 1vX situations. But honestly, providing I spent as much time playing Mesmer as I have done Thief (quite a bit over 2000 hours, yes I'm sad, I know), I reckon I'd be able to kill every other profession just as proficiently as I do now with Thief as well as being more useful to a team (Portals and Time-warp, I'm looking at you.. enviously).

So the thing that you're missing here is.

Thief may kill you 1v1, Thief may even kill you and someone like you 1v2. But I can think of very many situations in which a Thief couldn't kill you... or anyone else. I can also think of many situations where I'd rather have a Mesmer than a Thief on my side. And I definitely think there are Mesmers out there that simply don't get killed by fotm Thieves be it a result of build/ skill/ time sink. And I know, with a great degree of certainty, there are many many many Mesmers out there that wont get insta-gibbed in 2 seconds.

#72 Caffynated

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:54 AM

View PostXentin, on 21 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Serious problem.... Most of the time I am catching thieves even if they stealth. L2P issue? I dont get it why most of people dont dare to smash with aoes and even normal attacks the place where they saw shadow refuge or last place of thief. Most of the time I am easily owning thiefs thanks to this... Seriously ppl try to think a bit more in fights.  Better to QQ about one thief that cant do too much to a whole team than qq about eles raping whole teams :D. Hope ANet knows whats right and whats bad for game.


@EDIT
Oh and yeah, thief op:


The damage there is from projectile reflection. The ele's damage acounts for ~8.5k of what downed the guy.

Compare that to say 27k direct damage in 1/2 second from a thief...






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