29 replies to this topic

[Murmer]

Power/Vitality/Toughness.

At least that's been the impression lately. More and more often people have been saying that it's what they run with and what they recommend. It seems that this is clearly one of the most desired armor sets for PvE right now. What do you guys think? Is it the same on your servers? I'm on Tarnished Coast.

[Coren]

Personally, my engineer runs with those stats and has little problem. On the other hand, my mesmer has a mix of crit,power and crit damage, mixed with some vit a bit of toughness and he does well too.

So bottom line, what ever suits your style

[sorting hat]

I'm running full Knight armor/accessories for my mesmer, and I'm loving every bit of it. It is depending on your style, but I also realize more and more people think it is the universal combo for everyone. It might be true (since it covers the basics) but definitely not the best for all.

Come to think of it, maybe it's the trend that many people are playing direct-damage builds, and realized they need some survivability so they go find an armor that gives them just that, while they can still invest most of their points on offensive traits? Just speculation...

Edited by sorting hat, 18 December 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[jinxPad]

Berserker suited my ranger just fine, until levels 16-20 started making consider my survivability.  Now I'm in the process of getting HOTW gear for the Power Toughness Vit. gear.  

Not sure what accessories I'll get to match it though.

[TheZec]

It really depends on how you play. Pow/Vit/Tough is good if you want to survive and deal some direct damage while being able to take it too. If you like to be more supportive you may be willing to go Pow/Tough/Healing, wich may lower your survivability (wich may not be true if you have many ways to heal yourself) but allows you to be better at supporting. If you are good at avoiding damage, then you want to go berserker or rampager.

IMHO berserker/rampager is the way to go if you want high damage and you are good at preventing damage, and cleric is what you are wanting to roll with if you want to support. Pow/Vit/Tough is really good only if you do much content alone.

Edited by TheZec, 18 December 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[matsif]

it's probably the best soloing set in the game.  On certain builds that require crit rates or conditions it is more or less worthless though.  I use it on my warrior and am thinking about changing up my guardian build to use it, but for my ranger and engineer I focus heavily on condition damage (traps+shortbow on ranger, nades on engineer after nerf to regular nades), so it really isn't of much use to me on those characters.

I believe knight's is probably the best all-around, where pow/tou/vit is better for general survivability (you lose a lot of crit rate without the extra precision), cleric's is better for support/heals (pow/tou/heal), and I like carrion for conditions builds.

finally, I see a current leveling meta of getting to level 30-35 and then running AC until 80 more or less as its the easiest dungeon (at least there are a ton of people in my guild doing it recently).  45 levels through AC you will easily have enough tokens for a full set of armor and possibly a weapon or 2 if not more.  Pow/tou/vit is offered from AC, and since AC is cheaper to get an exotic set from, more people are getting it and building around it.

[Swoopeh]

I'm currently using full berserker on my Mesmer and full carrion on my Necro and that works fine in almost every scenario, including explorables. I'll probably make a power/vit/toughness set though for the more annoying explorables (Test Subject Alpha - wtfargh, and things like those birds the final boss in HotW story uses).

[Xunlai Agent]

I aim to acquire full berserker on all characters. You have dodge, utilities and healing skills for countering damage!

[Vysander]

I think when people say something like power/vit/toughness is "best" it just means its the laziest stat combo. It means you don't have to worry about reacting as much, group dynamics, and all around engaging play because you can just sit there and do the bare minimum and be effective. I see too many pugs sit in one spot and use their auto attack exclusively.

Then, i dont think running armor+jewelry of any one stat set is ideal, but it comes down to palystyle, and some builds do fine with pure stat sets.

Then there's a class like necro running power/vit/tough and i just want to slap the taste out their mouth.

Edited by Vysander, 18 December 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[Rekkwum]

Swoopeh, on 18 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I'm currently using full berserker on my Mesmer and full carrion on my Necro and that works fine in almost every scenario, including explorables. I'll probably make a power/vit/toughness set though for the more annoying explorables (Test Subject Alpha - wtfargh, and things like those birds the final boss in HotW story uses).

It's probably not worth it if you're mostly fine - Alpha is much more dependent on dodge timing; toughness + vit doesn't make a huge difference, and having the extra damage will help much more. Meanwhile, do you run HotW story often enough to justify the cost?

I run a cleric/zerker mix on my Ele, full zerker on Engie, full clerics on Warrior, and a blend between clerics/zerker/knights on Guardian. Extra toughness is good if you need it, but remember it comes at a cost.
On top of that, bear in mind that over time, you'll improve, potentially past the point where that extra defense is needed.

[Zhahz]

Vysander, on 18 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

I think when people say something like power/vit/toughness is "best" it just means its the laziest stat combo.

I'm not sure I'd agree.  In dungeons melees seem to get hit more and there's no way to dodge every hit with a limited ability to dodge.

I don't think all classes need to gear like tanks but it helps to invest some into survivability if you do anything other than solo - but IMO it varies by class, role and style.

I do think too many are gearing like tanks regardless and it's something ANet has noticed too.  It's really due to their design moreso than anything, IMO.  The difference in dps effectivness between say, a full or heavy berserking set against a tanky set isn't as noticeable as the knockdown/death rate you experience between the two.

It doesn't matter at all what gear you're wearing solo since soloing is ez-mode and the only difficulty involved in it ever is completely by choice (or lack of any ability to play at all).

[Vysander]

Zhahz, on 18 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'm not sure I'd agree.  In dungeons melees seem to get hit more and there's no way to dodge every hit with a limited ability to dodge.

I don't think all classes need to gear like tanks but it helps to invest some into survivability if you do anything other than solo - but IMO it varies by class, role and style.

I do think too many are gearing like tanks regardless and it's something ANet has noticed too.  It's really due to their design moreso than anything, IMO.  The difference in dps effectivness between say, a full or heavy berserking set against a tanky set isn't as noticeable as the knockdown/death rate you experience between the two.

Well yeah, for warriors to run power/tough/vit makes fine sense. They are in melee and need to take more dmg. But rangers, mesmers, thieves, elementalists, necros, running full power/vit/toughness is laziness. Thats not to say some is bad. I have started running two peices of knights gear in place of my berserkers for high lvl fractals, and i run the "bunch of stats" style neck and one ring/earing (until i get solaria and another earing comes out) for the great all around boost they give. (im a thief btw)

And i would argue the difference between a full berserkers set and power/toug/vit gear is greater then you speak. there's a big difference between 100 crit dmg and none (maybe 10-20... not sure what base is and what you could get from whatever prec you ran)

[Soki]

Full Berserking, at all times.
I'm a Thief; D/D;Shortbow.
I've yet to go down to something I've seen before.

[Vysander]

Soki, on 18 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Full Berserking, at all times.
I'm a Thief; D/D;Shortbow.
I've yet to go down to something I've seen before.

Thats kind of a redundant statement

"yeah, i saw that, but felt like sitting in the way of the giant swinging hammer"

Is why i like a little bit of defence. For the things you don't see

Edited by Vysander, 18 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[Soki]

Vysander, on 18 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Thats kind of a redundant statement

"yeah, i saw that, but felt like sitting in the way of the giant swinging hammer"

Is why i like a little bit of defence. For the things you don't see

More like
"I don't go down to the same thing twice".

[Swoopeh]

Rekkwum, on 18 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

It's probably not worth it if you're mostly fine - Alpha is much more dependent on dodge timing; toughness + vit doesn't make a huge difference, and having the extra damage will help much more. Meanwhile, do you run HotW story often enough to justify the cost?

Yeah thats why I haven't really invested in it yet, but if I want another skin while not losing my current one I'll do a tough/vit set

Those dungeons were just an example though, in case of Alpha sometimes you just get caught in a sea of overlapping circles without a safe spot and will get hit, when that does happen it will hurt less with more defensive kit. Same for all those occasions in general where you weren't watching animations for 1 second or the animations are obscured and you were unable to get out in time. Be interesting to see how much of a difference that makes.

Although in case of high level fractals I've understood that the general consensus is that, since at one point you'll die in 1 hit anyway, you might as well go full DPS.

Edited by Swoopeh, 18 December 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Enscheff]

As a Warrior that already has a boatload of Vit from traiting Vigorous Shouts, I feel I don't need any Vit from any of my gear since my HP is already over 21.5k.

Because of this, all my armor is Knights.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

People actually like Soldier's?  I had it written off as one of the worthless prefixes that no one wanted.

I guess that would explain why pugs never deal any damage though if they're all wearing Soldier's gear.

[Arngrim Einheri]

The Best PvE Universal Armor Is...


the one that fits your playstile best? I personally only used berserker on my Thief because I have a hit and run playstile, and dodge and evade often. Once I had enough experience I had little problems with it.

[Rumstein]

I run with:
2x berserker (power precision crit)
2x soldier (power vit toughness)
2x Valkyrie (power crit vit)

Trinkets are aiming for berserker or multistat (Karka earring, etc) for the damage or versatility, though currently I have soldier stat back piece and ascended ring (Doric).

I run an elementalist 0/10/0/30/30 D/D build, so lack of precision is countered by permanent fury, I have extra vit from traits, and the damage balances well. I find in higher level fractals, I outlast every other player (maybe that's skill and avoiding the red circles...).

[Arquenya]

Murmer, on 18 December 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

Power/Vitality/Toughness.

At least that's been the impression lately. More and more often people have been saying that it's what they run with and what they recommend. It seems that this is clearly one of the most desired armor sets for PvE right now. What do you guys think? Is it the same on your servers? I'm on Tarnished Coast.

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that bosses in dungeons have 10 million hp anyway and dps just isn't as important as survivability.

If you can't sustain 1 burst damage from some particular bosses, you go down every time. Which in the end is less effecive (and more expensive) than sacrificing some dps and taking a few minutes more for killing that boss.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Arquenya, on 20 December 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that bosses in dungeons have 10 million hp anyway and dps just isn't as important as survivability.

If you can't sustain 1 burst damage from some particular bosses, you go down every time. Which in the end is less effecive (and more expensive) than sacrificing some dps and taking a few minutes more for killing that boss.

If the bosses have 10 million health you'd want more DPS so you aren't stuck hitting him all day.

If it came down to it, I'd rather have someone who does a ton of damage then dies than someone who doesn't die but doesn't do any damage either.  At least the former contributed something.

[Murmer]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 20 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

If the bosses have 10 million health you'd want more DPS so you aren't stuck hitting him all day.

If it came down to it, I'd rather have someone who does a ton of damage then dies than someone who doesn't die but doesn't do any damage either.  At least the former contributed something.

Well technically speaking, both people contribute something. And damage is damage, be it a little or a lot. But dead man deals 0 damage. I think that's the idea most people work off from.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Murmer, on 20 December 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Well technically speaking, both people contribute something. And damage is damage, be it a little or a lot. But dead man deals 0 damage. I think that's the idea most people work off from.

Guy in Soldier's gear deals 0 damage too is the problem.

[Murmer]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 20 December 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Guy in Soldier's gear deals 0 damage too is the problem.

Now now, lets not exaggerate things. No class in the game deals 0 damage to something. But I do realize that a lot of people automatically assume that soldiers gear is the best because of the closed environment in dungeons. However, I rather am fond of the mesmer "xxalucard" in the mesmer thread who affectively showed that yes, berserker builds in dungeons being excellent in dungeons can happen. However, I think that there is a stigma (which might be right), that berserker gear requires a higher learning curve then gear stacked with toughness and vitality. I've run full berserkers as an elementalist. It's quite possible, and even more fun when a whole team is in berserker gear and knows the dungeon. My record time running all three AC paths was about 1 hour give or take a few minutes. The other funny part is that we had no warriors or guardians. 3 elementalists on the team including myself, a necro, and a mesmer. Go figure.

[Arquenya]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 20 December 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Guy in Soldier's gear deals 0 damage too is the problem.

Never seen anyone do 0 damage ..

I think it comes down to the fact that people just don't want to be 1-shot and high repair bills.
The majority of players just isn't that skilled that they can get away with full berserkers stuff.

[Murmer]

Arquenya, on 20 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Never seen anyone do 0 damage ..

I think it comes down to the fact that people just don't want to be 1-shot and high repair bills.
The majority of players just isn't that skilled that they can get away with full berserkers stuff.

I bolded this sentence, so I could add on to it specifically and say: That isn't a bad thing.
Don't let anyone say that you're a bad player just because you aren't 95% aware of every possible attack and pattern in the game.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Diving Goggles.

[DudeItsBert]

Full Knight's with Berserker's in specific spots (certain accessories) in my opinion.

There are certain pieces where you get a much larger benefit from the crit damage from Berserker's than you lose in defense from not using Knight's. There used to be a thread about which pieces benefit the most and such.

[Feandro]

it really comes down to what class you are actually playing in my opinion.  A Warrior can augment his survivability due to his high base hp just by making sure his target dies faster, so berserker and knights stats work well with them.  Mesmer & Thief are innately hard to pin down, especially in PvE, so they don't need as much defense.

I run my guardian and elementalist in PVT armor just because it suits how I build the rest of them the most.  Guardians have very low base hp, and I run it as a front line shout support build, I want that Vitality most of the time so I don't just go in and explode.  Now as I'm go up higher into my fractal levels, I will probably swap the armor for either more cleric's or knight's gear to convert that HP which doesn't matter as much in fractals to other stats.  Elementalist has the same problem with their HP, however I pick pvt for WvW, not so much for PvE.

I don't have any valid experience in Ranger or Necro for that matter, but for the most part If i played them I wouldn't get near PVT armor for them.  But that's all just personal preference.