19 replies to this topic

[papaganoosh]

Why is dueling not in the game. This seems completely ridiculous. If people want to test builds or hone their skills in 1v1 you have to jump into an empty server, which inevitably fills up with PUGs who spoil your duel. Madness.

Here’s a little video to show how fun duelling can be!

http://papaganooshpl...ember-2012.html

[Lordkrall]

papaganoosh, on 18 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Why is dueling not in the game. This seems completely ridiculous. If people want to test builds or hone their skills in 1v1 you have to jump into an empty server, which inevitably fills up with PUGs who spoil your duel. Madness.

Here’s a little video to show how fun duelling can be!

http://papaganooshpl...ember-2012.html

Simply because the game is not balanced around 1v1?

If they add duels people that do duels will whine about it being unbalanced.

[Gilles VI]

I think because the game isn't balanced around but more around 5v5.

[Matsy]

The game is balanced around group fights.
There will always be someone who has the advantage in 1v1 due to class choice.

[Bad Idea Generator]

They have innumerable cases in which they swap out your skills for other skills.  I'm certain they could have a duel situation in which you are swapped to weapon skills approximately like those of your current weapon, but balanced for 1 vs. 1, and avoiding the rock-paper-scissors class issue.  There are other details to hammer out (what about trait effects, what about outside interference from mobs, etc.), but it is something that could be done.
That said, it is more work than just flipping some "PvP allowed" switch if they want to do it right, as explained above.  I figure (hope?) they'd prefer to wait and do it right, if they intend to allow dueling.

[papaganoosh]

That's true and I understand it, but it is such an enjoyable thing to be able to play your mates. I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but all I can think is that the answer is "very hard" otherwise they might have done so already.

[Lordkrall]

papaganoosh, on 19 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

That's true and I understand it, but it is such an enjoyable thing to be able to play your mates. I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but all I can think is that the answer is "very hard" otherwise they might have done so already.

It is very easy I would say.
But seeing as the game is not balanced around 1v1 they decide to not focus on it.

[Lunacy Polish]

Most duels in MMOs are done for fun between allies.  They also provide valuable information because the other person can give you feedback like "When you see that animation you need to Dodge immediately" etc.  I guarantee you it would only help as players could get good practice in against powerful professional and builds, and coaching on how to step it up.

[papaganoosh]

Lunacy Polish, on 19 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Most duels in MMOs are done for fun between allies.  They also provide valuable information because the other person can give you feedback like "When you see that animation you need to Dodge immediately" etc.  I guarantee you it would only help as players could get good practice in against powerful professional and builds, and coaching on how to step it up.

Hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly what I would use it for. I have SUCH trouble against Mesmer's and three good friends that play the class. For them to be able to coach me would be great.

[Alaroxr]

This is a problem in their philosophy that causes a few issues here and there. They will not add something players find particularly fun, because of a design 'ideal' that contradicts it. The issue is that what the players find fun is not prioritized.

Duels are a good example. Adding duels won't negatively affect the game. There are plenty of complaints regarding 1v1 already since 5v5 ends up with frequent 1v1 encounters. In WvW you can run in to many roamers designed for 1v1 while out in the world. Scouting also tends to get you into 1v1 and 1v2s, and small operations groups tend to run into 5v5 battles (which can lead to 1v1s).

Another example is the strict Conquest game mode in sPvP. There are a number of people that prefer other game modes, or downright dislike Conquest. However, they're so set on the idea of E-sports that adding other game modes isn't even a consideration.

Lunacy Polish, on 19 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Most duels in MMOs are done for fun between allies.  They also provide valuable information because the other person can give you feedback like "When you see that animation you need to Dodge immediately" etc.  I guarantee you it would only help as players could get good practice in against powerful professional and builds, and coaching on how to step it up.

Exactly this. Yesterday I wanted to see how my new balanced Guardian build would function against 1v1 oriented builds like the D/D Elementalist (since they are common in WvW). In doing this we both learned a lot about how to counter similar builds, and I now understand the combos D/D Ele uses (and how to counter them).

It was rather problematic though. First we had to into sPvP and set our gear to as close to what our gear was like in WvW (which was a HUGE problem for me, since Knight's in PvP is different than in PvE/WvW, and because there are no Orbs in sPvP). Next we had to join the same server and hope we wouldn't get anyone joining. Luckily we didn't get trolled, but it almost always happens and we have to back out/join in. Had it just been a standard MMO duel, it would have taken 2 minutes, not 30.

Edited by Alaroxr, 20 December 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[Heart Collector]

I wouldn't mind ANet incorporating duelling in the game. As long as there is an "auto ignore duelling requests" checkbox in the options menu... I used to get annoyed when some idiots would follow me around and constantly spam duelling invites at me in WoW. No means no!

[matsif]

I personally never understood the draw towards dueling.  I mean, there really is never much of a reason to do it other than fellating one's e-peen, and since I'm not a huge fan of doing that I don't see the point.

if it was implemented, as the top poster said I wouldn't care if I had a way to auto-ignore all of it, or if it was only available in certain zones. I personally want nothing to do with it.

[Perm Shadow Form]

I'm all up for 1 vs 1 Gladiator Arena with spectators.

[Reason on Cooldown]

Heart Collector, on 23 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind ANet incorporating duelling in the game. As long as there is an "auto ignore duelling requests" checkbox in the options menu... I used to get annoyed when some idiots would follow me around and constantly spam duelling invites at me in WoW. No means no!

Perm Shadow Form, on 24 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

I'm all up for 1 vs 1 Gladiator Arena with spectators.

Asked and answered.  Designating dueling areas would solve dueling spam.  Although game options like "Only allow party/friend/guild duel requests" seem like winners as well.

matsif, on 24 December 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I personally never understood the draw towards dueling.  I mean, there really is never much of a reason to do it other than fellating one's e-peen, and since I'm not a huge fan of doing that I don't see the point.

if it was implemented, as the top poster said I wouldn't care if I had a way to auto-ignore all of it, or if it was only available in certain zones. I personally want nothing to do with it.

Then you didn't read this thread.  Many people would like to spar with friends to test their build or train vs classes with which they are not familiar.

[Lordkrall]

Reason on Cooldown, on 24 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Then you didn't read this thread.  Many people would like to spar with friends to test their build or train vs classes with which they are not familiar.

Which, as also said in this thread, would be pointless seeing as the game is not balanced around 1v1.

[ArcViper]

Just because the game isn't balanced around 1v1 doesn't mean having the option to duel would be pointless.  Practice is practice, and a lot of people just like to duel for fun anyways.  There are plenty of ways they could implement it into the game without it being intrusive on people who dislike it.

But yeah, it's not a priority for ANet which is fine.

[ayoblame]

Lordkrall, on 24 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Which, as also said in this thread, would be pointless seeing as the game is not balanced around 1v1.

You say that as if there's any sort of actual balance in this game to begin with. Can't wait for dueling to be added tho tired of random trolls coming by fight clubs or spvp maps while we're trying to do our thang.

[Reason on Cooldown]

Lordkrall, on 24 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Which, as also said in this thread, would be pointless seeing as the game is not balanced around 1v1.

ArcViper, on 24 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Just because the game isn't balanced around 1v1 doesn't mean having the option to duel would be pointless.  Practice is practice, and a lot of people just like to duel for fun anyways.  There are plenty of ways they could implement it into the game without it being intrusive on people who dislike it.

But yeah, it's not a priority for ANet which is fine.

As ArcViper said.  It's not about which class, or which build is dominate over the other.  It's not about who wins a straight up battle.  It's practice and testing, and seeing if you can stop combo X, or can you properly time the interrupt to stop skill Y.  I think a brilliant place to implement this is in the mists.  You can endlessly rebuild your character....then what?  Sure you can pound om some golems, but what does that prove--other than your DPS output.  You can try your hand against the NPC mobs, but they are quite strong and not necessarily representative of normal battle conditions.  So the only way to really test builds is just throw yourself into sPvP.  Sparring might also be a good pastime while waiting for those potentially long WvWvW queues.

But I'm rambling now...........

[Alaroxr]

Edit: Long post but worth the read.

Lordkrall, on 24 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Which, as also said in this thread, would be pointless seeing as the game is not balanced around 1v1.

People can keep saying that, but it doesn't mean that 1v1 isn't a VERY useful skill to have, and it doesn't negate the fact that 1v1 is common. You can say that Football or Basketball is a team game, but that doesn't mean being able to shoot a 3-pointer consistently or being able to accurately throw a football 60 yards isn't a useful skill. And yet, they ARE personal skills.

If you can't fight effectively in a 1v1 (notice how I didn't say winning the 1v1?), then you'll probably get rolled in a 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4 or 5v5. A 1v1 isn't that different than a group fight. The combat mechanics are the same, it's just that you need to coordinate. However, these are not mutually exclusive. Being able to fight, and being able to coordinate, are not contradictory. The best teams aren't the best because they have just coordination, they're the best because they have coordination AND because they're great at fighting. A 1v1 is the ultimate training for combat because it's 100% on your own shoulders. If your entire group can perfect their individual combat skills, then together they'll be powerful.

A team that knows how to fight solo AND fight together is far more effective than a team that only knows how to fight together. You should be pooling your skills together rather than relying entirely on each other.

Reason on Cooldown, on 25 December 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

As ArcViper said.  It's not about which class, or which build is dominate over the other.  It's not about who wins a straight up battle.  It's practice and testing, and seeing if you can stop combo X, or can you properly time the interrupt to stop skill Y.  I think a brilliant place to implement this is in the mists.  You can endlessly rebuild your character....then what?  Sure you can pound om some golems, but what does that prove--other than your DPS output.  You can try your hand against the NPC mobs, but they are quite strong and not necessarily representative of normal battle conditions.  So the only way to really test builds is just throw yourself into sPvP.  Sparring might also be a good pastime while waiting for those potentially long WvWvW queues.

But I'm rambling now...........

You're absolutely right though.

What people who are against dueling fail to understand, is that just because you're on a team, it doesn't mean your own skill isn't a factor. They think that coordination is innately superior to skill and don't see that you need both.

Every encounter, when you break it down, is a 1v1. Let's say an Elementalist hurls a fireball at your face. In a group fight, you can dodge. In a 1v1, you can dodge. The only difference is that in a group fight you have a second option of an ally blocking it or granting you Protection (or something like that). In a group fight, you need BOTH options. Which player is better for a team: the one who knows how to dodge OR rely on his ally to block the attack, or the only who can only rely on his ally to block the attack?

Edited by Alaroxr, 25 December 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Lordkrall]

But they thing is: Why would it matter that you have trained for 10 hours each day in 1v1 when a real fight does not, in anyway, take that into consideration.

A big thing a good team utilize is Combo-fields and such, and most of those are quite hard to do with just a single profession/player since none of them have access to all of the starter/finisher abilities.

Why should they spend time to implement something like this, when the only real thing that will happen will be their PvP forums being spammed with people shouting about how OP that Profession is or how weak this profession is, based on their 1v1 fights. Which means  less of the real feedback gets attention.