146 replies to this topic

[raspberry jam]

Tonics were cool in GW1 (for a little while). ANet thought that they would be cool in GW2 too.

For a company that makes so much good stuff it's surprising how little they know about what is fun and not.

[Millimidget]

DuskWolf, on 19 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Why are marketing people as stupid as they are greedy?

I blame the universities; when they brainwash kids to think capitalism is evil, of course those same kids aren't as capable of measuring the wants/desires of customers, not in the least because they've been led to believe the "correct" approach is to use some 1984-esque social engineering.

[Tyrant Crimson]

You are not a real man/woman if you don't have Everlasting Toy Princess Tonic. No buts, no excuses.

[sevalaricgirl]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 19 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

and plain weird hats (earmuffs? A santa hat that looks like a wet newspaper?

I love the Santa hat and the ear muffs.  If you RP at all, you see the value in these.

[Xunlai Agent]

I dislike receiving tonics, just put them on a mule until there is another recipe that requires them or an achievement...

[Arquenya]

sevalaricgirl, on 19 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I love the Santa hat and the ear muffs.  If you RP at all, you see the value in these.

Only if they don't make you bald.

The ear muffs are funny ^^

[Sinful01]

I'm not "sick" of them, really, but I wish they'd add collection slots for tonics.  I don't really use them or collect them, but end up keeping them "just because."  Now I have a mule just for tonics, boosters, and other random stuff that might end up in a recipe one day.

[Kurosov]

The only reason getting many tonics was a good thing in gw1 was spamming for the party points.

[Dove]

I went to all the trouble of making attractive, good-looking characters. Why would I want to cover that up with the skin of a lesser beast?

I will, however, save them in case they ever achieve value like the party items eventually did in GW1. I bought all those bank tabs, might as well use 'em.

[Milennin]

Disliked them in GW1, dislike them in GW2.

[jonasklk]

Tyrant Crimson, on 19 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

You are not a real man/woman if you don't have Everlasting Toy Princess Tonic. No buts, no excuses.

I'm still trying to get it but my luck has been horrible this entire wintersday <.<

[yarddog]

tonics are a waste, if they become un-account bound, then they now have a use. i destroy all i receive.

[MazingerZ]

ExplosivePinata, on 19 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Tonics are like Black Lion chests, an inconvenience that I have to destroy.

Until they're used in Mystic Forge crafting

http://wiki.guildwar.../Mad_King_Chest

Also, it's cheap, shitty, lazy 'content.'

Transform into something we've already generated the model and textures for in the actual game itself!  See?!  CONTENT.

Edited by MazingerZ, 19 December 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[Beta Sprite]

*shrug*  I use them on occasion for amusement.  I don't see it as a loss that they exist.

[Gerroh]

Lucas Ashrock, on 19 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

We had one yet , lost shores, such a content
Ye, i'm looking forward to see new content with same exact bugs reported from months still here or renewed again (party split back was the most hylarious and it's back ) and more new bugged junk waiting us to be exploited.

That was a minor content update that was rushed becase Anet didn't expect people to blaze through the at-launch content as fast as they did. They even explained this. The January/February update is being labeled as an entire expansion. Why are you complaining about new content?
If you're going to be this negative, why are you even playing the game?

Quote

The "problem" and title of this thread is not just how to get them but even WHY, considering is just a stupid appaerance thinghy without skills noone care of. Going around gw1 LA with my dragon was awesome, and lots telling you how beautiful that tonic was. So fun playing with other people with it instead of my real char. Is it the same playing gw2 with tonics in your bag?

I and many others do care about them. Amazing how there might be opinions different from yours and those in this thread, eh?

Protoss, on 19 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

As I said before, I think the bigger problem is that they are expanding on content we didn't buy GW2 for. I think a bunch of us would be absolutely thrilled if GW2 was more about cute outfits and beating enemies to a pulp instead of all the jumping puzzles, town clothes, crafting, harvesting, ...

I bought GW2 for all that I liked in GW1 and the improvements that came with GW2. That includes tonics.

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 19 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Why do they keep adding tonics, ugly weaponskins (I mean, cmon, gingerbread? Really?) and dye sets ("get one random red and green dye", wtf?) and plain weird hats (earmuffs? A santa hat that looks like a wet newspaper?) instead of stuff that is actually worth buying? GW1 costumes, where are you? Where's the cool weaponskins? Town clothes?

I don't hate tonics, but I hate that these things appear to take dev-time away from things that this game lacks, aka stuff worth buying.

Are you kidding me with this post? Do you not think there are opinions aside from your own? There are people who like the holiday skins and were it not for the fact that I've already found weapon skins that I love more than anything else I'd probably buy more skins than I already have.
While I, personally, don't like the earmuffs, I've seen people put them to good use, and the santa hat helps people get into the spirit of Wintersday.
What dev time? Are you not even thinking about what you're saying? It would take, at most, half an hour to make a tonic because they use already existing animations on an already existing model with the occasional already existing projectile. The only work in making a tonic is stitching numbers together. You wanna know what you'd get if they never made a single tonic and put all that dev time into other game content? A monster. One monster. You'd get pretty much one new monster if they converted all of that time making tonics into other game content.


And let's think about that again, "the spirit of Wintersday".
Why are there people bitching about things added for fun on Wintersday?
Do you people not like fun!?

Edited by unraveled, 19 December 2012 - 06:54 PM.
Tidied up.

[Khlaw]

Not worth caring about; if you don't like them, delete them.  If you do, then great.

They're using existing skins, so I highly doubt there is much development time involved so...  why care?

[DuskWolf]

Millimidget, on 19 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I blame the universities; when they brainwash kids to think capitalism is evil, of course those same kids aren't as capable of measuring the wants/desires of customers, not in the least because they've been led to believe the "correct" approach is to use some 1984-esque social engineering.

The sad part is that in some cases it works. Like ArenaNet telling us that they're making a game for the fans in their manifesto, and then later coming out and telling us that we're all wrong-faaced buffoons because GW1 was apparently completely shit anyway, and that they know what's best for us.

Then you have the nodding heads. "Yes, yes! Tell us what's best for us!"

And I find that more than a little disturbing. But the problem with this approach is that the nodding heads are a vast minority of easily manipulatable people, and the vast majority are (I want to believe) too smart to fall for such base chicanery. I think that the average person on the street believes that the best deal is a price-for-product transaction, clearly laid out in obvious terms.

In the real world, outside of this little MMO sphere, we have regulatory committees that actually put a kibosh on predatory business tactics like those I've seen in GW2. Forcing people to face soul-sucking grind or buy gems is a very predatory business tactic, the black lion chests and magic forge are obvious gambling techniques which are illegal in some countries/states.

The problem is is that a fool and their money are easily parted, and there's a minority with disposable income who aren't smart enough to say no to this kind of thing. So they'll buy their gems, they'll buy their keys, they'll buy their mystic forge stuff, and all with real money. But none of these are direct price-for-product or price-for-service transactions.

A locked chest with temporary things inside is gambling and predatory, in my opinion. Whereas a clearly stated product on the cash shop for a price is honest. It's like... if I go to the Steam store, and I see a game, I see a price attached to that game. I pay the price and I get the game. I can read up about the product, and I might even be able to play a demo. So this is an honest transaction.

But for some reason, we have this minority who, via social engineering and other tricks, have been convinced that it's okay to put money down on something nebulous, where they aren't receiving a clearly laid out product in return. And unfortunately, there are enough fo these people (vs. the populace of the world) to fund a game and to tell a developer tha tthese predatory tactics are successful.

The fact of the matter is though is that in my opinion, an honest transaction-for-product system would get more customers, it would generate good will, it would be seen as accepting the customer's intelligence rather than trying to use social engineering tactics to convince them that gambling and throwing their money away is okay (it's not, it's total BS).

So they could offer a permanent buff for a set price. Instead, they take advantage of those who don't know better. I can't play a game that does that, you know? I've left other games behind in the past because they started doing that. I don't want a developer that gets by on doublespeak and social engineering. I want a developer that's honest. This is why I like the indies, I guess, and why in most cases I just avoid MMOs entirely.

The thing is is that even TERA gets this right, for all the infuriating flaws that game has.

Here is a product. Here is a price. You can find alternatives by playing the game. Whether you choose to buy this product or not is up to you. You can see this product being used in game and in these screenshots to decide on whether you want it or not.

That's an honest transaction.

Here are some dishonest examples from GW2:

Buy gems and convert them to gold to bypass that horrible grind! [Grind we created by lowering drop rates, and increasing gold prices in the game, whilst ensuring that only a tiny trickle of any kind of currency is even going into the game.]

Buy a key for a black lion chest! Who knows what's inside, it's a mystery! [It's a gamble that takes advantage of addictive personalities, it takes advantage of the person who's unable to say no to gambling. It takes advantage of the person who has a gambling problem.]

And this is why I have no respect for ArenaNet. From an ethical standpoint, it's not defendable. Oh, people will try, but it's not.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Totally agree. I tried to wake up some minds about how illegal and borderline this company is running the game, and stand up organizing a class action. Getting way more than your refund, (at worst, a forced refund to every customer of the account's price before the shutdown) shrinking this pathetic company as deserved, leaving this game on better honest hands maybe. With an entire legal explanation (with the help of an other user on the main forum, posts not deleted by mods)  about how this game is gamble based no more or less than a casino illegally allowed to minors using real cash, how mystic forge sparkle is exactly designed like a 18yo + slot machine, how dangerous this game is on weak minds and minors, and what kind of damage can do to a minor in future.
That kind of light using mystic forge grows up addiction, proved and tested, reason because every casino have the same kind of lights. Did it went anywhere? Did i see anyone telling me "Wt.. wait they are right. I'll call my lawyer if what they wrote is true". Nah, just some sheep with this face   a couple teengares with not even knowing where their panties are not calling mommy.
Well, how can i expect to watch a sheep writing a book?

Gerroh, on 19 December 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

That was a minor content update that was rushed becase Anet didn't expect people to blaze through the at-launch content as fast as they did. They even explained this. The January/February update is being labeled as an entire expansion. Why are you complaining about new content?
If you're going to be this negative, why are you even playing the game?

I'm not negative   I'm realistic. Still hoping, when sometimes i write this kind of post (read it all) it's clear what i hate. For sure, not the game.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 19 December 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[iLag]

Lucas Ashrock, on 19 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

Totally agree. I tried to wake up some minds about how illegal and borderline this company is running the game, and stand up organizing a class action. Getting way more than your refund, (at worst, a forced refund to every customer of the account's price before the shutdown) shrinking this pathetic company as deserved, leaving this game on better honest hands maybe. With an entire legal explanation (with the help of an other user on the main forum, posts not deleted by mods)  about how this game is gamble based no more or less than a casino illegally allowed to minors using real cash, how mystic forge sparkle is exactly designed like a 18yo + slot machine, how dangerous this game is on weak minds and minors, and what kind of damage can do to a minor in future.
That kind of light using mystic forge grows up addiction, proved and tested, reason because every casino have the same kind of lights. Did it went anywhere? Did i see anyone telling me "Wt.. wait they are right. I'll call my lawyer if what they wrote is true". Nah, just some sheep with this face   a couple teengares with not even knowing where their panties are not calling mommy.
Well, how can i expect to watch a sheep writing a book?

I'm not negative   I'm realistic. Still hoping, when sometimes i write this kind of post (read it all) it's clear what i hate. For sure, not the game.

It's not Arenanet's fault it's gamble based excluding them recruiting a ex-Nexon , I believe NcSoft got bought by Nexon

[Lucas Ashrock]

Whoever is legally responsible of the development is the one who pay.

[Jump_N_Move]

Yea i agree, they pretty much all suck. Waste of inventory space, but at the same time they used them crafting recipes soooo do i through em out or not. Meh

[MazingerZ]

Jump_N_Move, on 19 December 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Yea i agree, they pretty much all suck. Waste of inventory space, but at the same time they used them crafting recipes soooo do i through em out or not. Meh

That's ultimately the problem.  Short of the damn junk items, you never know what's going to be dreamed up in a Forge recipe.

[Red_Falcon]

I'm sick of more and more PvE content over much more interesting WvW/PvP content, new skills/weps and whatnot.
So yes tonics are part of the flavor stuff they're wasting code on...

[Cube]

iLag, on 19 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

No one told them to make it p2p it's just b2p is the future. Don't you see the smart ones like Secret World converting ?

TSW went B2P because they are not selling/doing well, and with a game that is not popular, having a P2P game is fatal. Games tend to go that way because they don't do well enough...

[Lucas Ashrock]

Ye well, b2p with store and paid buffs works more, look at this game. A bit of scams and they got a winning formula, gw2 style

I wish gw2 had 1% of the depth about content and support TSW has.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Craywulf]

I'm having a hard time taking this thread seriously. Tonics are not game-breaking and the so-called inconvenience it brings is trivial at best. How freakin' hard is it to delete it if you don't want it?

[Lucas Ashrock]

Because we gw1 players found it a fun variation worthy of a bag slot, an here is just a useless junk we don't want?
(no need to be a gw1 player to get it's just junk wasting space)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[iLag]

Craywulf, on 20 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

I'm having a hard time taking this thread seriously. Tonics are not game-breaking and the so-called inconvenience it brings is trivial at best. How freakin' hard is it to delete it if you don't want it?

Trivial? No the fact is they make us gamble with things like the Black Lion Chest and a spot is taken up by a useless piece of shit no one that doesn't grind for it by itself cares about

[Khlaw]

Nope, nobody makes you "gamble" on a Black Lion Chest.  Ever gotten anything out of a chest that made the game easier?  Ever been unable to progress because of an item you needed from a chest?

Tonics.  Gee... An item that costs me nothing, that requires a right-click worth of effort to get rid of, that brings other people joy.  Kill it with holy water!

But I have to keep it because someday the things may be necessary for me to be able to continue to play the game!  Like Mystery Tonics were for Halloween?  Please refer to sentences two and three of this post.

A few years ago, several of the people posting I this thread would have been easy to spot as trolls.  The scary thing is now...  Some of you are obviously serious.  If something like this is really that upsetting to you, I can only imagine what a cold, dark place the rest of the world must be for you.

[DuskWolf]

@Khlaw

How is it not a gamble when you're putting down real world money (on a key) for an uncertain outcome? Saying it isn't gambling doesn't automatically not make it gambling.

Also, closing your post with an insult (in the traditional ArenaNet faithful way, it seems) doesn't give your post any more credence. To the contrary, it helps to kill your credibility. There are some people I can't take seriously any more because they make jabs rather than arguments.

I see people like RJ making solid arguments, and then I see the faithfuls retorting with cheap shots. I know which side I'm happy to be on.

Edited by DuskWolf, 20 December 2012 - 02:25 AM.