110 replies to this topic

[matsif]

as a off and on WvW player, I don't see any problem with it.  Badges aren't just used for getting a legendary, they are also used for siege, therefore giving them MORE value for WvW than getting a legendary imo.

[MrZero]

Alent, on 19 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Allow me to reiterate then: a non-aggressive stance in the JP will reduce frustration in this aspect of the game with minimal impact on the WvW battle.  I can't fix every frustrating thing in the game, but does that mean we shouldn't try to make things a little easier on people?



I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusion that I'm only concerned about myself, I've tried to indicate that I've only really posted this after talking to guildies and others about it.  I have played WvW, and while I don't find it particularly enjoyable due to a variety of reasons (culling, etc), I enjoy grouping with a few of my guildies that like playing it.  If you truly feel there are aspects that we all hate doing, why not work to change those things?  Others may feel the same way about it and by working to change them they would benefit as well.  What I'm suggesting isn't world shaking, and I know it's been suggested before.  Its not whining, it's a simple suggestion to make the game a little less frustrating for everyone.  If you see a large group going to camp the JP in the boarderlands, by all means fight them off.  But one person trying to complete the puzzle; how are they a threat, whats the point in ganking them when they will be gone in a minute if you just leave them alone?  I feel like thats pretty reasonable.

http://wiki.guildwar.../The_Juggernaut
As I said, I HATE crafting. not just in this game in every game I have played. I hate pve farming too. Look at the list on that page, tell me a way to make that easier for me or how I am going to make changes to the game to make it easier. I submit you you that it is WAY easier for you to get 500 badges of honor than it is for me to get all those other mats. A legendary is not supposed to be easy. You are not supposed to like every aspect of getting one either.

I came to the conclusion that you are only concerned about yourself the same way you came to the conclusion that everyone else in this thread is concerned with themselves. You want people to change the way they play the game to suit your wants and needs. They are just standing up for themselves and their own playstyle.

The fundamental problem is that people want this game to be something that it's not rather than enjoying it the way it is. It's not just a problem with this game either. It is a problem every time a game comes out. A lot of people seem to want xxxx game to be like xxxx, instead of just playing a game the way developers make it or moving on.

[Minu]

Alent, on 19 December 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

This is exactly the kind of attitude that makes the game less fun for people.  Yes, I agree it was a little lame to make some classes suck at WvW or to make any actual battle there take hours on end and then force a PvP requirement for legendaries.  But blaming the system only takes you so far, why not try to change it?

The attitude that a couple people spending about 10-15 minutes tops to get a few badges is going to somehow swing a battle is just so far beyond believable that I have a hard time taking you seriously and not as a troll post.  How is killing people who will only be there for a few minutes and are traveling alone to a place completely unrelated to any battle helping your side win the world at all?  Answer: it's really not, you are a coward trying to get cheap kills and aren't helping your team win no matter how much you try to spin it.



As long as they also remove the badge of honor requirement for legendaries, I'd be ok with this.

If people don't want to be attacked, they should not enter a pvp area, there really is nothing else to even contemplate regarding this issue.

[Alent]

Here is a question then: would the people that think the JP should be fair game be ok with having badges of honor be a reward from sPvP so that people who aren't enamored with WvW could still get them?  If so perhaps that may be a better way to go about easing some of the frustration.

[MrZero]

Alent, on 19 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Here is a question then: would the people that think the JP should be fair game be ok with having badges of honor be a reward from sPvP so that people who aren't enamored with WvW could still get them?  If so perhaps that may be a better way to go about easing some of the frustration.

No, I wouldn't be OK with that.

I have a character that uses a build centered around using the stats of Power/Vitality/Toughness. The only way to get those stats is one of three ways. Farm Karma to the tune of 42k per piece, run dungeons for tokens, or play the various aspects of wvw for badges of honor.

Spvp and the gear for Spvp has absolutely nothing at all to do with the rest of the game. You would be forcing people to participate in an aspect of the game they want nothing to do with. Isn't that kind of the root of your own complaint?

[Alent]

MrZero, on 19 December 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

No, I wouldn't be OK with that.

I have a character that uses a build centered around using the stats of Power/Vitality/Toughness. The only way to get those stats is one of three ways. Farm Karma to the tune of 42k per piece, run dungeons for tokens, or play the various aspects of wvw for badges of honor.

Spvp and the gear for Spvp has absolutely nothing at all to do with the rest of the game. You would be forcing people to participate in an aspect of the game they want nothing to do with. Isn't that kind of the root of your own complaint?

I didn't say take them away from WvW, simply suggesting an alternative method to obtain them.  I'm all about providing more options.  Or would you be against that too?

Edited by Alent, 19 December 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[MrZero]

Now I am confused.

You have a problem getting ganked in wvw so the solution is earn badges in spvp, which is even more pvp centered than wvw.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now I am starting think yo are just a troll and stirring up shit.

[Craywulf]

While I'm a strong advocate for player civility, as I view it to be a serious problem within the MMO and FPS genres. I think players are every bit in their right to "gank" players in WvW. This is a part of the game where anything goes. In order to combat the jumping puzzle problem, you need to organize a party to help defend the area. It's really that simple.

[Tribal696969]

adding badges of honor in spvp doesn't make much sense.  spvp gives you all the weapons and gear you need upon entering, and you don't use siege.  if badges create legendaries and buy siege, why would a place that uses neither reward you with mats for them?

i mean, i don't really care either way, just saying.

[Real]

There are traps set up in the jumping puzzle for the sole purpose of screwing other players over. A mechanism put in place by the developers themselves. It boggles my mind how people demand "civility" in an activity set on a PvP zone.

[Tribal696969]

Real, on 19 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

There are traps set up in the jumping puzzle for the sole purpose of screwing other players over. A mechanism put in place by the developers themselves. It boggles my mind how people demand "civility" in an activity set on a PvP zone.

well to be fair he's not demanding it.  he's just trying really hard to convince us all to change our playstyles to accomodate his.  there are a lot of things that i'd like to get from pve and dungeons, but i don't like doing them, so i accept that i'm not going to get those things.  guess it just depends how bad you want something.

[Alent]

MrZero, on 19 December 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Now I am confused.

You have a problem getting ganked in wvw so the solution is earn badges in spvp, which is even more pvp centered than wvw.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now I am starting think yo are just a troll and stirring up shit.

My problem isn't with PvP, I'm just looking for solutions to make it less frustrating, thats all - sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Humungous]

I think it's quite clear that legendaries are supposed to be for people that do PvE and WvW. If that's not you, then don't get a legendary. The game has lots of fun stuff to do besides the one most grindy achievement they offer.

Meanwhile, removing PvP from the WvW JPs would make them unfun for me. I really like the no-man's land feel of it. The cat and mouse that goes on is awesome!

Edited by Humungous, 19 December 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Teeliee]

Nothing worse than getting killed at the end of the EB puzzle by 5 enemies

The last 3 days I've had died at least once because an enemy server had 5+ camping in the end. Two of these days it was even the same guild (æternum) who had members there who killed me. :l

Usually if I see people camping in the end against non-aggressive people I whisper them to cut it off.

Very fun tho when you get attacked by a person and you knock him down as revenge =)

Edited by Teeliee, 19 December 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[PvPD00R]

Red = Dead.

But I wouldn't go to the end of the jumping puzzle, i'd do it at the start, or on the way to.

People who do it at the end are just being jerks.

[Xai]

OP...I'm not one to camp the puzzle. I have only done them a few times myself. I've encountered people who camp, I've encountered people who are happy to let others pass.

At the end of the day, the jumping puzzles in WvW are not a free ticket to Legendary components. They are in pvp zones for one. For another, the puzzles in EB comes complete with traps, arguably encouraging players to use them on other players.

I have no problem with letting people pass, but it's no crime to camp the puzzle. It's a valid tactic to prevent enemies getting free siege and a valid tactic to farming extra badges.

[Tarkus]

Meh, WvW is a PvP instance so no, we will still kill you. Ganking all of the players going into the jumping puzzle now gives new meaning to the term "badges of jumping" eh?

[two maces]

Antithesis, on 19 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I agree it is cheap. I always let others alone when in jp.

On our server SOS constantly camps jp like it is some kind of strategic position
to keep others from getting badges or seige ( lol like you cant just go buy it ).

It takes all kinds I guess ....

Mostly my guild during SEA weekend, they seem to like building siege in dome. Sorry about that, nothing I can change.

[Formana]

1. Remove the Badges reward from the Jumping Puzzle
2. People actually needs to fight and cooperate for their 500 badges
3. They, then enjoy WvWvW and actually come back to play some more after completing their legendary
4. More people now play WvWvW
5. ???
6. Profit!

Just my two cents.

[NotKMoose]

Hate jumping puzzles so I've never even gone up there but seems reasonable.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Alent, on 19 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I refuse to believe the inanity here is representative of the actual player base.  Why should you not do it?  Because it doesn't advance any WvW objectives, because it is common courtesy to allow other players to have fun while playing, because it gives more casual players a headache when you do, because there is no honor is ganking a single player who won't be on the server longer than 10 or so minutes to get a few badges?  I have yet to see any actual arguments against a non-aggressive stance in the boarderlands jumping puzzle, but it appears I have found the type of people that perpetrate this kind of cowardly attitude of ganking single players while rationalizing it to themselves so that they feel good.

I know from personal experience and interactions that people are would like a way to earn badges of honor that doesn't involve only WvW.  WvW can be very frustrating for people.  What I'm proposing is trying to remove a little bit of frustration in a low impact manner.  It's a simple suggestion to work as a stopgap until ANet makes more intelligent changes on badges of honor.  Which brings me to the other idea I've had: grant badges as reward for sPvP (which people enjoy as much or more than WvW with its culling issues), which is a something I plan to float in the official forums soon.  I am sorry and a little disappointed that the people here seem too concerned with themselves to extend some courtesy to other players of the game and instead feel like they have to insult everyone who does not agree with them...

WvW does not have 'common courtesy'. It's WvW.

Killing enemies in the JP IS a legitimate WvW tactic and does advance the cause. Did you know that most WvW commanders encourage folks to take over the JP so that they can control the chests (which give blue prints)?

You are entering a hot zone, little buddy. That's where some of the worst fighting is.

And it's not about free kills or ganking. It's about controling valuable resources. The bounty from those chests are very valuable. WvW is a money sink as is. I want my server controling the JP so I can get BP and badges for free!

Folks, a Legendary is the top of the line weapon available only to players who can master ALL phases of the game. These were NOT meant to be obtainable by casual play. I may not agree with that, but it's how they designed it. If everyone could get one, then they wouldn't be "Legendary!!" They'd be "Average!!".

You should check in from time to time in WvW and ask the status of the JP. Guarantee one day your sever will be camping it. If they are not, transfer to one that does. It's fee and you can always transfer back a week later.

Owning the JP is a HUGE advantage for a server in WvW. If you played WvW, you'd know that.

[Xunlai Agent]

PvP leads to players killing other players, crazy I know. How about asking Arenanet to change the legendary requirements instead? That is far more likely than people signing up to your ceasefire suggestion....

[TastySlop]

I don't know. WvW is not technically PvP, but this sounds a lot like trying to organize match manipulation.

[Moorecore]

I never kill anyone in the JP unless they attack me first. Ha, I remember one time these three guys tried to jump me and it took like 5 min to kill all of them and i even yelled, "I wasn't even trying to mess with you!". But to the OP i understand that is the common feeling there so i generally leave people alone unless they start it.

[Jedbacca]

In Soviet WvW, Red player name mean kill..

[Humungous]

Last night, we had a 10 minute long fight for control at the entrance of the JP. It was freaking awesome!

And when we reached the end, we weren't camping it, we were trying to control it so that we could double portal others to the chest. It wasn't about griefing, it was about controlling a very powerful resource! We had 2 mesmers, so if we could have held onto it, we would have had people to the chest in no time flat. As it was, the JP Grief Counsel (yes, that's a real guild in TC, or is it FA?) wrested control of the lake below, so we couldn't capitalize on it. Then, they eventually got a mesmer past us and portaled up to take the chest over. It was epic and VERY meaningful to WvW!

[Killminusnine]

TastySlop, on 20 December 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

I don't know. WvW is not technically PvP, but this sounds a lot like trying to organize match manipulation.

WvW *is* technically PvP as the entire point of the WvW zones is that players are killing players to further an end.

Next.

[Im Legion]

I personally won't attack anyone unless provoked or if they're a thief. Even then I generally stick to knocking them off wherever I need to go. That being said, I've had awesome fights outside the JP with my guild vs another, not that we cared about the JP, but we just wanted to kill people and they were reported to be there in map chat.

There have been so many times that I've done jumping puzzles without meeting anyone (even allies) so I think you should just pick a better time for it and preferably on your own borderland. The best thing really would be to group up with 1-4 other people going for legendary and just cap supply camps. The camp supervisors give 2 badges for pretty much zero risk and 30 seconds work. It's pure PvE most of the time unless you have bad luck and run into some enemy opposition. It's still much faster to get badges than with the JP and it even nets you some karma, plus it actually helps your server!

[Jackiepro]

ITT:
Pver crying about how a miniscule amount of pvp is too hard.

Legendary is described as "a mastery of the entire game". Be happy they didnt force you to spvp on top of it, I would have a field day with people like you walking in there to get their weapons.

[Jabtangs]

I still don't understand why they only require stupid 500 badges from WvW... while they require shit tons of things from PvE.

Make it require like 2k badges to make it even. 250 of 8 types of T6 mats? thats like 100 times more hard to get than 500 badges.

And plus remove badges from JPs ty.