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A call for civility

boarderlands jumping puzzle civility

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#91 SelwynnSelene

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

View PostAlent, on 19 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I refuse to believe the inanity here is representative of the actual player base.  Why should you not do it?  Because it doesn't advance any WvW objectives,

Actually yes it does.  I play in Jade Quarry, and in Tier 1 both sides often fight to control entrance to the jumping puzzle, especially late in the week.  The JP is one of the major ways your server stocks up on siege weapons.  Hold the entrance to the jumping puzzle, and then flip seige.  If you don't know what that means or how that's done, then you really have no business making a statement like "it doesn't advance any WvW Objectives."

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because it is common courtesy to allow other players to have fun while playing,

It is not common courtesy to refrain from PvP in PvP zones.  I'm sorry that you do not find PvP fun and yet still voluntarily choose to enter a PvP zone anyway.  But that's not my problem.  And if you feel forced to enter a PvP zone to accomplish things you want to accomplish, but don't want to PvP, then your problem is with Anet and you should take it up with them.  Acting like active PvPers engaged in PvP are somehow doing something wrong, or are jerks, or are "uncivil" is absurd on its face.

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because it gives more casual players a headache when you do


Casual players voluntarily choose to enter PvP areas.  Oh but wait, they're doing that because they are farming materials?  Then they're not casual players are they?  You are not required to farm badges.  You choose to do so.  And badges come from WvW.  That's what they are.  You earn them by taking the risk of combat with the enemy.  

Asking to just be able to "get" badges without the risk that is associated with them is akin to asking to exploit.  You earn badges by successfully getting through territory with enemy players and either (a) get them by fighting or (B) get them by surviving to get to loot

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I have yet to see any actual arguments against a non-aggressive stance in the boarderlands jumping puzzle

I have no provided many in this and my subsequent posts.

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, but it appears I have found the type of people that perpetrate this kind of cowardly attitude of ganking single players while rationalizing it to themselves so that they feel good.

This just in:  yet another person cries about being killed in PvP and calls his killers mean names!  Film at 11.  

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I know from personal experience and interactions that people are would like a way to earn badges of honor that doesn't involve only WvW.  

No kidding.  And I would like ways to earn fractal relics that does not involve going to fractals.  A "Badge of Honor" is a reward for WORLD V WORLD.  

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Which brings me to the other idea I've had: grant badges as reward for sPvP (which people enjoy as much or more than WvW with its culling issues)

You need to seriously stop speaking for everyone else.  You have three pages of people telling you why no one agrees with you, so you keep referencing what "the majority" thinks.  As I've said, I play in Jade Quarry.  People enjoy WvW very much here.  The statement that "people enjoy sPvP more than WvW" is you saying what you want to believe.

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  I am sorry and a little disappointed that the people here seem too concerned with themselves to extend some courtesy to other players of the game and instead feel like they have to insult everyone who does not agree with them...

And yet you've had no problem insulting pvp players and calling them names simply because they choose to engage in pvp in a pvp zone and this inconveniences your farming.

#92 AKGeo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:02 AM

View Postilr, on 27 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:


Something about this community and probably the game in general is just not socially motivating/connected.

Welcome to the internet. It's like that EVERYWHERE.

#93 Manoa

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

I don't know what it's like in the higher tiers (I'll bet some of the puzzle battles are fun and epic), but in the lower tiers, the puzzle is just where unskilled fighters hang out to shoot fish in barrel and get easy ganks/badges//trolling.  :P

When I'm in the puzzle, I go by "you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone."  But it's a PvP zone and I fully expect to be attacked/ganked in the JP.  It is a bit lame and frustrating when folks are camping areas you just can't fight back effectively (like the beast room with siege).  But it's WvW.  WvW is built around strategic advantage and isn't balanced to be fair.  Always remember this.  If and when I get ganked, I won't cry (too much) and will just wait until a later time when the puzzle is empty or when our server has the advantage to get my puzzle in.  

Just don't /dance on my corpse...that's just tacky.

Edited by Manoa, 10 January 2013 - 05:47 PM.


#94 B3aT

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

Damn, If I had the time and power I will kill ALL from JP in WvW, friendly and enemies.

Earn badges from killing players not jumping like the rest of us, earn your place on the server, earn your wvw buffs, work for a living ..go and kill :).

If anything all people should complaint to ANet to remove the JP from WvW ..or give no badges.

And no ..not all of us want legendary after all, If I wanted no brain grind I`ll keep playing Chinese MMO's.

#95 Manoa

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostB3aT, on 10 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Earn badges from killing players not jumping like the rest of us, earn your place on the server, earn your wvw buffs, work for a living ..go and kill :).

You know, some people do both...  ;)

#96 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:22 AM

I have no problem with killing scrubs if they want to start shit while I am getting my daily badges.  That said, it's near impossible to kill them if they're just camping the arena, which is just straight up bad design.  Certain classes can hit them pretty hard from below (engineer in particular thanks to ground-target grenades) but there's no way to finish them even if you do take them down.  If there's more than 2-3 of them it's impossible to bring anyone down for good.

#97 Cereal

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:28 AM

View PostB3aT, on 10 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Earn badges from killing players not jumping like the rest of us, earn your place on the server, earn your wvw buffs, work for a living ..go and kill :).

Not sure if serious.

#98 gance

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:33 AM

jp in pve give us trash rewards but many players doing it for fun/achievements.

jp in wvw give us siege/badge/chance of precursor - its a pvp zone for a reason.

why would anyone want to gain something unique(legendary)  in an easy way?
its part of the fun,

op want a story like this:
i go to wvw jp every day open chest get badge then boom i got a legendary.

how i think it should be:
i go to wvw, killed so many invaders, great battle in jp, got chest then got legendary forged with invaders blood XD


and i believe siege from jp can make impact in the battle if the players want to.
there is this one time i played,
our commander map chat us saying he got a mesmer(his guildies) in jp and anyone who wants to get chest can come and they will help.
then ask us to give him the siege(but his not forcing anyone) so many players gave their seige to the comander, and we captured keeps/post/towers faster.
not everyone are willing to give silvers to commanders, but seige gained from jp in 5mins or less with the help of mesmer, it can help a lot

Edited by gance, 11 January 2013 - 04:35 AM.


#99 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

Nop. WvW JP is a warzone 24/7. As long as valuable WvW resources can be earned there, there will be large scale fights. Those are totally valid.

If there were a Blueprint Tree on the side of a WvW map, we'd fight over it. Consider the chest a Blueprint Tree.

#100 ErraticFaith

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:45 PM

ugh so close to wanting to right an infraction worthy post about 'cases of carebear' lol.

Personally I love meeting people at jump puzzle. I have done it long enough now to cover both key paths in seconds with a bit of run buffing. So the jump element is boring now for me. BUT I have a great laugh fighting people while jumping about.

I'm not saying 'me me me' I mean I can understand how some with less time find it annoying to be knocked down but its wvw with wvw based rewards - that do have siege value like everyone said :P

Personally I'd hate it to become cuddle land between factions. I came to wvw to fight not to let you take my badges and siege  :D

#101 chuckles79

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

I've tried to be civil in the JPs...and it never works.  Because one person will wait til the other person is in a precarious position and either knock them down for the lulz, or will kill them for the easy kill (after all,  most people are working towards the tier six WvW kills right?)

It sucks that you have to PvP for a Legendary, but that's part of the point.  The whole reason for a Legendary is to show off to friends and enemies alike, and where better than WvW?

Besides, the argument that you should NOT deny your enemies access to free siege engines and badges to upgrade their weapons or buy more cheap siege; is ridiculous.
You might as well suggest leaving dolyak's alone because you don't get rewards for guarding them anymore.

Edited by chuckles79, 11 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#102 chuckles79

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

View PostManoa, on 10 January 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I don't know what it's like in the higher tiers (I'll bet some of the puzzle battles are fun and epic), but in the lower tiers, the puzzle is just where unskilled fighters hang out to shoot fish in barrel and get easy ganks/badges//trolling.  :P

When I'm in the puzzle, I go by "you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone."  But it's a PvP zone and I fully expect to be attacked/ganked in the JP.  It is a bit lame and frustrating when folks are camping areas you just can't fight back effectively (like the beast room with siege).  But it's WvW.  WvW is built around strategic advantage and isn't balanced to be fair.  Always remember this.  If and when I get ganked, I won't cry (too much) and will just wait until a later time when the puzzle is empty or when our server has the advantage to get my puzzle in.  

Just don't /dance on my corpse...that's just tacky.

WvW is meant as a group activity.  If they are camping the JP, then get a group of guildies and take it back.  If your guildies don't want to WvW or do not want to support your goals, then join a guild that will.

They are probably dancing on your corpse for being naive enough to think they'll just let you through because you are just a swell guy.

Edited by chuckles79, 11 January 2013 - 04:52 PM.


#103 Nostredeus

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Jesus... Owning 3 or 4 people in the JP through clever tactical play and use of my Necro stability DS is ace, it's fun, grinding badges for a particle effect is less so; let's not go removing the fun stuff so you can grind crap out more effectively yeah?

#104 Minu

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostJetjordan, on 21 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

The really simple solution here would be to take the PVP requirement out of legendaries.  its the only way to fix this problem.  End of story.  They might should have made a way to obtain the legendaries for people that JUST WvW as well.  Like you get 500 badges INSTEAD of doing map completion.  

eh?

As a WvW player in the main, one who really does not like the jumpling puzzles in the game, they remind me too much of Jet Set Willy etc, and a player who has next to no interest in acquiring a legendary weapon, in my opinion, they all look bloody awful, but a Legendary is what is should be.....damn hard to get, granted becoming less so it seems, but the point remains.

To get your legendary, you should be able to at least compete in all facets of the game, that's what being legendary is all about surely?  Take away the PVP requirement and make it accessable only to PVErs and you cheapen the reward massively, indeed, there is nothing legendary about being able to play one part of the game at the expense of another, and the same applies if you take map completion out for WvWers.

I have 3 Level 80s, all in full exotics, and 2 in their 60s chasing them down, and my highest map completion is 30% and that was on my 1st character.  I have no interest in the PVE part of this game, and as such, I could never actually call any achievement legendary, as I am choosing to disregard a whole section of this game.

#105 Meldios

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

If I'm going to waste my time going to a JP while I'm doing WvW I sure hope there are some "qq moar plz don't kill me" people in there to drop some more badges, thereby making my need to visit the JP less often a reality.
Thanks for being those people.

#106 Manoa

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

View Postchuckles79, on 11 January 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

WvW is meant as a group activity.  If they are camping the JP, then get a group of guildies and take it back.  If your guildies don't want to WvW or do not want to support your goals, then join a guild that will.

They are probably dancing on your corpse for being naive enough to think they'll just let you through because you are just a swell guy.

O.o  Naive?  Just because I go by a "if you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone" approach doesn't mean I'm a pacifist.  There are plenty of people who take a similar approach and will leave me alone when I leave them alone.  And there are plenty who do not.  When I encounter those who do not, I'll TOTALLY throw down if and when someone attacks.  Sometimes I win.  Sometimes they win.  I don't care about the dying.  It's a frickin' PvP zone.  Of COURSE there's going to be PvP.  And of COURSE I'm going to be defeated when I encounter someone who has a better build or better skill.  I just personally find corpse /dancing tacky, unsportsmanlike and downright trollish.  YMMV

Also, I wasn't arguing against PvP in the puzzle and wasn't arguing that the puzzle isn't meant to be a group activity.  I was making the point that those who are getting frustrated need to remember is that WvW is a PvP zone that isn't built to be fair (it's built around strategic advantage).  And the puzzle is thematic with that strategic advantage design and is game of "king of the hill."  And I wholeheartedly feel anyone going into the puzzle should be 100% comfortable with the idea that it's strategic PvP that's not intended to be fair before they even enter the puzzle (or even better, before they even enter the WvW maps).  If someone is having a difficult time due to campers, then of course they either need to seek help from others (or try the puzzle at another time).  

Do I personally find campers frustrating?  I'd be lying if I said I don't get frustrated at times.  Especially when there's just no way to effectively fight back due to map design (hello beast room).  I may not attack unless attacked first, but I ALWAYS go into the puzzle expecting a fight and will most certainly fight if someone strikes.  And I'll say that I've been part of some pretty fun and exciting battles in the puzzle too.  They're probably among my favorite jumping puzzle runs and some of my favorite moments in WvW.  

Heck, I already have my Gift of Battle (via a combo of WvW map completions, the JP and WvW kills) with plenty of badges to spare and really don't even need the badges for my eventual legendary anymore.  I still do the puzzle because I can and because I find it fun and interesting.

P.S.  Not a "swell guy"...I'd consider myself a "swell gal" though.

Edited by Manoa, 12 January 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#107 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:01 AM

The arena/beast room/whatever you want to call it is downright stupid.  That room is not a fight.  I once saw a group of three enemy players with an arrow cart hold that arena for a good half hour, until a mesmer who had managed to sneak past portaled me up and I went and jumped on them from behind.  I don't even need to exaggerate.  One Mighty Blow downed all three of them instantly.  Three lowbies with gear so crap it couldn't save them from a single Mighty Blow held that room against groups of level 80 players for a good half hour.

At this point the JP is pretty much just battle of the mesmers because that's the only way to get anything done.  Mesmer to pull people off high ground, mesmers to sneak past things and portal, etc.  I like killing people, especially when they start it first, because that just makes it funnier.  I don't like having to be a mesmer all the time to do it.

Hell, just letting us hold the torch while navigating the dark room would make the JP 100x more balanced.

#108 Lemar

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

hmm I am against camping with sieges, but I guess it's all fair game. I do like the fights and little skirmishes that happen in JP's.

I do get your frustration OP, but if you can't handle the heat of WvW then you do not deserve a legendary. There's nothing legendary about that. Be happy that Anet gave you the ability to earn them from JP not limited it to looting defeated players.

Just my 2c

#109 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

I have a better idea. Seeing as how the EB JP is instanced, how about making portals not work at all in there?

Now, everyone has to earn their trip to the top. Can't port ambush forces up to key areas. Takes too much time to mass forces at choke points. AND keep the annoying "Any mesmer in JP?" out of my map chat. I want to choke people when I see that and we're losing towers left and right. FU get out here and help us first!

#110 Spearcrusher

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

Uhm you know A.net wanted ppl to fight on and around the JPs otherwise they would have made em either dungeon-like or disabled attacking enemies. It makes the JP another strategical point of WvW if you want to complete them ,then get some guildmates and kill all of them

#111 matsif

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 15 January 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The arena/beast room/whatever you want to call it is downright stupid.  That room is not a fight.  I once saw a group of three enemy players with an arrow cart hold that arena for a good half hour, until a mesmer who had managed to sneak past portaled me up and I went and jumped on them from behind.  I don't even need to exaggerate.  One Mighty Blow downed all three of them instantly.  Three lowbies with gear so crap it couldn't save them from a single Mighty Blow held that room against groups of level 80 players for a good half hour.

I've had the same thing happen multiple times in that room.  A portalling party gets up top, sets up camp with some arrow carts/ballistas, and the room is more or less entirely cut off.  then a mesmer makes it through somehow and we ambush the people sitting up there not paying attention, and all 3-5 of them die in like 5 seconds.  

I'm just glad I'm done with my gift of battle and never have to enter that JP again for a long time.




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