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With an eye toward the end game, are toughness, vitality and healing the most important stats?


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#1 Castaa

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

I'm about to hit 60 with all 8 of characters, one for each class, and thus a purchasing my final reset of my trait points.

Is there a consensus to which stats are best for the end game (PvE)?  I'm reading it's those 3 stats are vital for the high level fractals.  True for all classes?

[moved to Vigil Academy as this question goes beyond the basics of Q&A - Arduin]

Edited by Arduin, 20 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#2 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

I haven't seen any enrage timers or stuff that makes things DPS dependent.

That being said, nickel-and-diming isn't necessarily the most efficient way to play and you open the opportunity for things like respawns (at least in the open world) and things of that nature to crop up and force a battle of attrition.

Toughness is more effective against direct damage than condition damage.  You use condition removal to negate condition damage.

Vitality is a better buffer against condition damage.

Healing's effective if your build is more focused on support and you're relying on companions to do the damage.
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#3 Jason Seven

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:48 PM

There is zero need for anybody to focus on anything but Power, Precision and +Critical Damage. More Vitality and Toughness just means that you need a larger health pool and more defense because you're getting hit too often. The same can be said about Healing Power. A skilledd player doesn't need any of these stats as they've learned when to dodge and how to position themselves. If you rely only on defense it means that you should learn how to play properly.

#4 Kokocat

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:07 PM

Depends on the class in my opinion.

Classes with low base HP -> Vitality
Classes with mid base HP -> Vitality or Toughness
Classes with high base HP -> Toughness

Don't really bother with healing power unless you like being the rezz person in your group.

Do not skimp out on damage, spec condition or power/crit.

If you're not as skilled as the guy above me implies you should be in order to not use Vit/Tough/Heal gear completely, there's no problem with being on the safe-side and using a mix of Pwr/Crit/Vit or something of the like.

Edited by Kokocat, 19 December 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#5 lmaonade

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostJason Seven, on 19 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

There is zero need for anybody to focus on anything but Power, Precision and +Critical Damage. More Vitality and Toughness just means that you need a larger health pool and more defense because you're getting hit too often. The same can be said about Healing Power. A skilledd player doesn't need any of these stats as they've learned when to dodge and how to position themselves. If you rely only on defense it means that you should learn how to play properly.

though that may be true, everyone gets hit, period. There is no human being with psychic abilities and predictive abilities only go so far, and though there are people who can pull off amazing feats of gameplay (such as the guy who solo'd Lupi with a glass cannon warrior), they are not things to emulate. Defense is a necessity in certain builds for certain purposes, no one is going to play a bunker build full glass cannon because "they can dodge everything."

That being said, there is no consensus on what stats are better, it all depends on what you're building for each class, I noticed that you mentioned traits, and let me tell you that how you build your traits may or may not be related to your overall theme at all, some people may build DPS traits but equip themselves defensively, or vise versa, traits are all about which major traits benefit your playstyle the most.

#6 Krazzar

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

Take into consideration the weapons and utility skills you like to use, then look at the grandmaster trait or traits that will best achieve what you like to do, then decide how you want to split your traits for the rest of your traits, then consider gear stats to either focus more on certain aspects or fill in a gap. When it comes to making a build I pick functionalitly over stats every single time because that functionality is what you're going to be doing second-by-second which can decide whether you're enjoying yourself, providing for the team, and ultimately surviving. The relationship between traits and weapons is really what makes up what you can do and how you do it. When you start considering a team as well your options open up, if you know you're going to be solo all the time you're going to have a different kind of build and gear.

If the weapon skills you want to use and functional traits require higher precision go with higher precision. If your weapon skills and utility skills would benefit more from healing power go with that. There's no single answer, even for a particular dungeon there isn't a single answer.

#7 RaoulDukeHST

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostJason Seven, on 19 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

There is zero need for anybody to focus on anything but Power, Precision and +Critical Damage. More Vitality and Toughness just means that you need a larger health pool and more defense because you're getting hit too often. The same can be said about Healing Power. A skilledd player doesn't need any of these stats as they've learned when to dodge and how to position themselves. If you rely only on defense it means that you should learn how to play properly.
my,my what a pro player we have here,so you're the noob pug i pick up from time to time who spends all his time on the floor?

#8 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

Power, Precision and Crit damage all the way. Anyone not using those stats is a burden to the team. If you find yourself dying too often you might want to get better at dodging, and maybe have a look at your skillbar. Any skilled player has no need for any defensive attributes.

#9 Strife025

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

power, precision, and either crit dmg or toughness for PvE.

Healing Power and Vitality are pretty much wastes, condition damage sucks compared to direct damage.

I'd rather speed clear a dungeon quickly and still not die because of OP boons and the weakness condition, then take forever with survivability gear.

This is how easy it is for organized groups with berserker/knights gear and 2 guard/2 war/1 situational classes to clear dungeons:

http://www.youtube.c...iew=1&flow=grid

Edited by Strife025, 19 December 2012 - 09:59 PM.


#10 Red_Falcon

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

Healing power is worthless because they severely nerfed its effect on skills, and generally relying on green number is a noob move, that's not what will get you through in dungeons.
Toughness is the go-to stat for any class beside Ele, Thief and Guardian who also need Vitality to get up to at least 14k health.
Once you have those you're set - the rest of your defense department is done through dodging and using cooldowns at the right moment - and all other stats go into offense.

Anyone with excessive amount of health and defense hasn't learned to play his class yet and you should not take him into deep fractals.

#11 Cruzzi

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

I'd say that with current pve content (which tends to emphasize extremely large hits which passive stat defense is pretty much incapable of dealing with), it's mostly a waste to invest in defensive stats beyond what would bring you to around say ranger base (medium hp - medium armor). Having a bit of passive defense helps in trash fights, but for most fights the game really is forcing you to use active defenses if you want to survive.

Healing Power really is a waste for nearly everyone right now, the multipliers on most healing skills are so bad.

Edited by Cruzzi, 19 December 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#12 Snapalope

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Full tank is kind of useless because at FotM 30+ (if this is an indication on how endgame is going to turn out), not matter how durable you are you are going to die in like 1 or 2 hits.  It's pointless to even try to tank and it's just more efficient to kill shit faster.

Edited by Snapalope, 19 December 2012 - 10:32 PM.


#13 Bloodtau

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

You need toughness. Anyone who takes only power.pre and crit has no place in my dungeon parties. Sure you do damage, but when i'm having to res your ass all the time, i'd rather do with out it.

I get people to ping me their armour's. If they are using something nooby like berserker, they get kicked.

Edited by Bloodtau, 19 December 2012 - 11:13 PM.


#14 ViM

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostJason Seven, on 19 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

There is zero need for anybody to focus on anything but Power, Precision and +Critical Damage. More Vitality and Toughness just means that you need a larger health pool and more defense because you're getting hit too often. The same can be said about Healing Power. A skilledd player doesn't need any of these stats as they've learned when to dodge and how to position themselves. If you rely only on defense it means that you should learn how to play properly.

Who the heck are you to determine whether one is playing properly or not?

#15 Jason Seven

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

View Postlmaonade, on 19 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

snip
Positioning yourself in the right way as well as dodging at the right time gurantee avoiding any kind of damage. Now, how much defense, health and healing is needed when you don't even get hit? That's right - none! Relying on anything but offense only makes you a burden to your entire team. The same goes for any "bunker build" player, they've just not learned how to play this game and rely purely on healing and defense resulting in not being able to kill even a single opponent. It amazes me that everyone thinks so highly of this one person who soloed Lupicus Giganticus. All it takes to perform such a "feat" is to know your own abilities, how and when to use them and to know your enemy. What worked for one boss might not work for another, though. That being said, if you can't even solo a single dungeon boss then you're nothing but dead weight.

View PostRaoulDukeHST, on 19 December 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

my,my what a pro player we have here,so you're the noob pug i pick up from time to time who spends all his time on the floor?
Greetings fellow Desolation player! Considering I don't PUG you must be mistaken. I noticed you're from Extraordinary Gentlemen. That's actually really funny, you know. We took two from EXG with us into the second Infinarium dungeon back then and quite honestly I'm still not sure what happened. They pulled a large amount of Skritt in the first phase, died, then raged at us for, and I quote, "being too lazy to attack". A good, skilled player knows that this phase is easily done with the use of a few Ash Legion Spy Kits. Take this as a piece of advice and spread this knowledge in your backwards guild. Needless to say we laughed quite a lot on our TS about this, so thanks for the good laugh!

View PostViM, on 19 December 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Who the heck are you to determine whether one is playing properly or not?
I am me, obviously and I can determine that by simply looking at the question at hand. Anyone who relies on defensive stats is a complete waste of server space.

#16 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:09 AM

Just an illuded glass cannon guy thinking his continous dodge waltz is "pro", let him be, when he's tired missing one roll instashotted he will type "sorry" i'm just tired"  :D

p.s. Not telling you when others in chat laugh "wt.. instashotted? Glasscannon? Who invited this guy?" "Dunno, kick" ;) Oh right, he doesn't join pugs.

There isn't at all a "must have" about builds, traits, stats, except basic core concepts clear to the player from lv1. This is the last good thing still safe about gw2.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 01:13 AM.


#17 BreadBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostJason Seven, on 20 December 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

meow

Hello. Would you say all classes have viable power,prec,crit dmg builds? Even Guardians? Would you not let anyone with a single +vit or +tough gear in your party?

#18 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

What about necros, which pve necro is not addicted of power and crit :rolleyes: Hahahaha meow :D

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 01:38 AM.


#19 Jason Seven

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

View PostBreadBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

Hello. Would you say all classes have viable power,prec,crit dmg builds? Even Guardians? Would you not let anyone with a single +vit or +tough gear in your party?
Yes, every single profession. Guardians have very high damage and even burst capabilities if played right. No I wouldn't, as they're not fully beneficial to the group.

#20 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:42 AM

Hahaha he even answered. Ok tell us about necro with power prec crit PVE c'mon we want to laugh :D

#21 BreadBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:51 AM

View PostJason Seven, on 20 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Yes, every single profession. Guardians have very high damage and even burst capabilities if played right. No I wouldn't, as they're not fully beneficial to the group.
What class do you play in high level fractals?

Surely at least one party member built with a decent amount of vit and/or tough would be beneficial to the party?

I'm only fractal level 6 (hah) so sorry for not knowing any better but from what I hear,all it takes is one mistake and your downed. Wouldn't you rather have that one guy come in and save anyone who does this one mistake?

#22 Reikou

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

View PostJason Seven, on 19 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

There is zero need for anybody to focus on anything but Power, Precision and +Critical Damage. More Vitality and Toughness just means that you need a larger health pool and more defense because you're getting hit too often. The same can be said about Healing Power. A skilledd player doesn't need any of these stats as they've learned when to dodge and how to position themselves. If you rely only on defense it means that you should learn how to play properly.

I am with Jason Seven in this one.

Anyone who feels a need to stack any sort of defensive stats in PvE just needs to learn to play.  It has been proven time and time again that glass cannon is the best and most viable way to build a character assuming that you are a good player.  On the flip side, anyone who suggests stacking defensive stats, save for a few very specialized builds, just aren't any good at the game, and thus really aren't people you should be taking advice from.

proof:


more proof:
http://www.guildwars...de-with-videos/

View PostBreadBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

What class do you play in high level fractals?

Surely at least one party member built with a decent amount of vit and/or tough would be beneficial to the party?

I'm only fractal level 6 (hah) so sorry for not knowing any better but from what I hear,all it takes is one mistake and your downed. Wouldn't you rather have that one guy come in and save anyone who does this one mistake?

1.  Don't make mistakes.
2. There are other ways to fix mistakes than just "tanking" it.  Shadow Refuge, Sanctuary, Mist Form Res, War Banner.  Just use your head.  But to be honest, this is the biggest difference between a good player and a bad one.  How well they know and understand their skills and the game and and how well they use their skills in the game.

The other alternative is to kill a mob, which, if all players are high damage, would be faster anyway.

Edited by Reikou, 20 December 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#23 BreadBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:01 AM

View PostReikou, on 20 December 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

woof
That's kinda sad how endgame makes 80% of your stats pointless to stack.

*if this is true*

Would you say this kind of philosophy is only applicable to high end fractals or even dungeons or entire lvl 80 pve?

Edited by BreadBuddy, 20 December 2012 - 02:03 AM.


#24 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

Hahahaah woof :D Wait wait he got a buddy too :D Still waiting his theory about necros with those stats , he said every single profession must have them hahaha :D

His buddy forgot point 3: don't blink an eye, take some pills/drug helps, they are the "pro" hahah

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 02:07 AM.


#25 Reikou

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:07 AM

View PostBreadBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

That's kinda sad how endgame makes 80% of your stats pointless to stack.

*if this is true*

Would you say this kind of philosophy is only applicable to high end fractals or even dungeons or entire lvl 80 pve?

If anything, it is MORE applicable in high end fractals than anything.  Please take a look at this thread.
http://www.guildwars...de-with-videos/

Its also not so much that end game makes 80% of the stats pointless to stack.  Its more the game and game mechanics.  Defense in this game can be increased to infinity by simple dodging, and evasion.  As such, the better one becomes at the game, the less and less defensive stats are necessary, and the more they become just dead-weight stats.

On the contrary, the worse a player is at the game, the more they feel they need to increase the buffer between life and death, and thus feel the need to have more defensive stats.  However, if a player is still at the point where they feel like they need to stack defensive, these players still are in the "L2P phase" and really aren't in any position to be giving advice.

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 20 December 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Hahahaah woof :D Wait wait he got a buddy too :D Still waiting his theory about necros with those stats he said every single profession must have them hahaha :D

His buddy forgot point 3: don't blink an eye, take some pills/drug helps, they are the "pro" hahah

Heres your necro build.

http://intothemists....6a;1NV05NV051cm

Edited by Reikou, 20 December 2012 - 02:17 AM.


#26 Jason Seven

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 20 December 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Hahaha he even answered. Ok tell us about necro with power prec crit PVE c'mon we want to laugh :D
Not really sure what's there to laugh about but a Necromancer with Wells would be the obvious choice in this case, as well as Dagger and Warhorn and Staff for non-boss fights. Necromancers have extremely high AOE damage capabilities and thats where they really shine. Most of their AOE skills even apply conditions and control effects or turn boons into conditions on enemies. It is very evident where your level of understanding is, though, considering this question.

View PostBreadBuddy, on 20 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

What class do you play in high level fractals?

Surely at least one party member built with a decent amount of vit and/or tough would be beneficial to the party?

I'm only fractal level 6 (hah) so sorry for not knowing any better but from what I hear,all it takes is one mistake and your downed. Wouldn't you rather have that one guy come in and save anyone who does this one mistake?
I am mostly playing a Guardian in Fractals. The party damage negation with that class is extremely helpful. Like I've said before, if that player is good he won't need any Vitality or Toughness but to each their own I guess. If you want to be as efficient as possible and as beneficial to your group as possible then pure offense is the way to go. Yes, a lot of people say that all it takes would be one hit for a so called glass cannon to go down but I think none of them ever understood the concept of dodging and positioning. I can take several hits, mostly 3 or 4 before my health gets in the critical area but all I really have to do if I get sloppy for a few moments would be to use my healing skill and I'm back with full health. Using the healing skill with the most healing naturally.

#27 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:17 AM

So wells is pro, i see :mellow: erm.. Posted Image
And an mm scepter dagger / staff with Orrian armor prec, cond dmg and tough what is, a carried player? :D
No wait seriously, those 2 guys are pretending to tell us the bible of gw2 and what pro is, or what stats are the top. Crit stacked on necro, sure. Why not. I leave this hopeless thread, hoping BreadBuddy makes me laugh a bit more haha :D

#28 BreadBuddy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostReikou, on 20 December 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

Please take a look at this thread.
http://www.guildwars...de-with-videos/
I have. You can see I already have a post there asking the same thing I'm asking in this thread.

I just don't like the idea that ANY stat at all becomes useless at some point in the game, whether it be offensive or defensive.

#29 Jason Seven

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 20 December 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

And an mm scepter dagger / staff
Please, by all that's holy, tell me that the MM doesn't stand for Minion Master in your post otherwise I might have to bang my head against the wall until I understand how someone can think MM is any good in GW2.

#30 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:23 AM

Ok now you're being a bit ridiculous, seriously ^_^ I was one of the top dps doing  path 4 arah simin included, actually :P
You skipped the comment about the armor huh?
As i said, it's a hopeless thread of illuded, keep talking with BreadBuddy, was fun :P Crit stacked on a necro,  hahaha

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 02:26 AM.





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