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With an eye toward the end game, are toughness, vitality and healing the most important stats?


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#61 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Mhmm, I'm waiting for vids then.

You've already proven you don't know anything by running pugs and saying berserker gear is bad.

I don't make vids. Why? because i'm not that vain and self lacking.
Go ahead though, you're welcome to your dream "speed" runs haha

#62 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

I don't make vids. Why? because i'm not that vain and self lacking.
Go ahead though, you're welcome to your dream "speed" runs haha

So basically you don't know what you're talking about.

Saying berserker is useless and people get downed all the time with it and that it doesn't increase damage over toughness. Anyone who actually runs dedicated dungeon groups knows your full of bs.

Don't even need dungeon vids, let's see your warrior auto attack damage with your toughness set.

kthxbai.

Edited by Strife025, 20 December 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#63 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

So basically you don't know what you're talking about, sounds good, kthxbai.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? HAHA
oh god, these kind of people.... good for a laugh

Sorry about the thread derail. Anyway, to the OP. yes, a stat like toughness is very important. NEVER go full berserker  you are only gimping yourself and your team if you do.

#64 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

How do you arrive at that conclusion? HAHA
oh god, these kind of people.... good for a laugh

Sorry about the thread derail. Anyway, to the OP. yes, a stat like toughness is very important. NEVER go full berserker  you are only gimping yourself and your team if you do.

I updated my post for you since you're clueless.

#65 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostReal, on 20 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Speed runs of release dungeons with no escalation. With a group full of guardians and warriors. Impressive. No, really.

Also this  strifeo.

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

So basically you don't know what you're talking about.

Saying berserker is useless and people get downed all the time with it and that it doesn't increase damage over toughness. Anyone who actually runs dedicated dungeon groups knows your full of bs.

Don't even need dungeon vids, let's see your warrior auto attack damage with your toughness set.

kthxbai.

Lol, playing a warrior. That there collapses your entire points. Face roll class. My cat could play it and do well

#66 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Also this  strifeo.



Lol, playing a warrior. That there collapses your entire points. Face roll class. My cat could play it and do well

I have 5 80s. No secret warrior and guardian are OP for PvE, I'm not going to force myself to play crap classes and take longer then I need to.

2 guard/2 warrior/1 situational is all you need.

Keep dodging the initial subject of berserker gear being bad though. My guardian wears half zerker, my mesmer wears full zerker, and my thief wears full zerker. Only class that doesn't have any is necro. If you're not bad and run with a dedicated group zerker armor is the best because it helps you clear the quickest. Oh, and I wear the same stuff at 30 fractals. Higher you get in fractals the less toughness means since you're going to get 2 shot anyways, might as well kill faster.

High level fractals even further strengthen berserker being better then toughness.

Edited by Strife025, 20 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#67 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I have 5 80s. No secret warrior and guardian are OP for PvE, I'm not going to force myself to play crap classes and take longer then I need to.

2 guard/2 warrior/1 situational is all you need.

Keep dodging the initial subject of berserker gear being bad though. My guardian wears half zerker, my mesmer wears full zerker, and my thief wears full zerker. Only class that doesn't have any is necro. If you're not bad and run with a dedicated group zerker armor is the best because it helps you clear the quickest. Oh, and I wear the same stuff at 30 fractals. Higher you get in fractals the less toughness means since you're going to get 2 shot anyways, might as well kill faster.

High level fractals even further strengthen berserker being better then toughness.

As I said, your "speed" runs don't go any faster than other people. Only other people do better in them.

#68 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

As I said, your "speed" runs don't go any faster than other people. Only other people do better in them.

Provide proof and I'll believe you, because from experience I know that's not the case.

I'd love to see a full soldier armor group clear as fast as a full berserker group.

I've run hundreds of dungeons if non-Pug organized groups and have never met anyone that thinks toughness gear is faster.

You literally have to be retarded if you think gear with vit and toughness does the same damage as crit % and crit damage with the way scaling works on crit damage.

Edited by Strife025, 20 December 2012 - 10:33 PM.


#69 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Provide proof and I'll believe you, because from experience I know that's not the case.

I'd love to see a full soldier armor group clear as fast as a full berserker group.

I've run hundreds of dungeons if non-Pug organized groups and have never met anyone that thinks toughness gear is faster.

You literally have to be retarded if you think gear with vit and toughness does the same damage as crit % and crit damage with the way scaling works on crit damage.

I don't need to, because I know.
Your entire argument is biased towards warrior's. You'll be saying condition based stats are useless next because you don't know how to use a condition build.
Get it in your head, your view, your idea, is wrong.

#70 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

I don't need to, because I know.
Your entire argument is biased towards warrior's. You'll be saying condition based stats are useless next because you don't know how to use a condition build.
Get it in your head, your view, your idea, is wrong.

You obviously don't know since you've provided no proof or even attempted to show you know anything about dungeons or group mechanics. It's not just warriors that use zerker gear, mesmers, thiefs, engis I run with all use full zerkers as well, and guardians can get away with a portion of zerkers. Ranger and necro are just bad compared to other classes.

Condition builds suck for PvE, they do way less damage then DD because they don't have scaling like % crit does. They also lack the survivability of DD builds because omnomberry pies/ghosts are overpowered. Not to mention they are worthless on objects, and worthless on dps check events like Simin and SE Path 1. ArenaNet apparently realizes it just like most other people, since they are looking into condition builds for PvE, but for the current meta it sucks.

You probably don't know about group comps that have 100% uptime on protection and weakness which will let an organized group have way more survivability then anyone with toughness gear. That's the whole reason you run melee groups for maximized dps.

You literally have no clue what you're talking about and prove that you're just a pugger that can't back up anything other then saying "I know."

Edited by Strife025, 20 December 2012 - 10:45 PM.


#71 Peter M Abraham

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:44 PM

When I was leveling my 3rd 80 (a ranger), I spent from late 30's to early 70's (level wise) in the mid level 40 centaur area doing the three dynamic events (the last set being clear the 3 beasts, the elemental rock thingy, and then the boss that throws fire around).

Often times I would find myself being swarmed by centaurs; taking them out, and having as close to 0 health as you can have without dying.

The one time I was with what I guess was a glass cannon build player who just kept dying; and after a while asked me how was I able to get through those mobs... toughness played a key role.

I went with Beserker armor, soldier armor upgrades, and knight stat weapons.  It does less damage than a full glass cannon build; and, allows for human error to come into play when playing.

#72 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:



"Condition builds suck for PvE,"



That's all I needed to know about you. From now on everything you say is just air....

#73 Strife025

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 20 December 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

That's all I needed to know about you. From now on everything you say is just air....

Which proves you don't know anything about Condition Builds vs DD builds, another noob who knows nothing and can't back it up, cya. Maybe people will listen to you when you show proof that your terrible builds are actually good.

Edited by Strife025, 20 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#74 Bloodtau

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

*sound of wind*

Anyone hear something?

#75 Zee_Man

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:17 PM

For proof zerkers is the way to go, check this thread: http://www.guildwars...ld/page__st__60

Exact same discussion for mesmer, but with videos. Alucard has videos of fractal 49 with full berserker gear.

#76 zoofman

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostStrife025, on 20 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Which proves you don't know anything about Condition Builds vs DD builds, another noob who knows nothing and can't back it up, cya. Maybe people will listen to you when you show proof that your terrible builds are actually good.

I think a lot of people realize this thread is full of trolls and rather than harping back and forth on it, would you advise basically watching your speed runs to get an idea how to handle one's self in full zerker gear?

I think part of my perception might be cause I do pugs and there just isn't the organization a 2guard/2 war/1 other party has.  I'm not gonna deny what your saying makes sense, and it's something I see repeated by anyone over fractal 30+.  So I guess from my shoes I'm more interested in pointers to try to reach that point of aptitude where knights or soldier stuff isn't needed to stay alive.

#77 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

After the "condition builds sucks for PVE" and "on dps check necro sucks" who gave us  a great laugh, :D i guess we had enough of those funny illuded peeps truly believing AC speedclear 2 war 2 guardians glasscannon is "be a pro" and others are noobs believing anything else exists, haha let them be on their dreams :D

Nice thread, loads of fun, i was missing this kind of thread from wow days :D

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 December 2012 - 11:50 PM.


#78 Strife025

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

View Postzoofman, on 20 December 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

I think a lot of people realize this thread is full of trolls and rather than harping back and forth on it, would you advise basically watching your speed runs to get an idea how to handle one's self in full zerker gear?

I think part of my perception might be cause I do pugs and there just isn't the organization a 2guard/2 war/1 other party has.  I'm not gonna deny what your saying makes sense, and it's something I see repeated by anyone over fractal 30+.  So I guess from my shoes I'm more interested in pointers to try to reach that point of aptitude where knights or soldier stuff isn't needed to stay alive.

I agree that full zerkers isn't ideal for everyone and does require a group that is working together and individual skill and knowledge of attack patterns to dodge full attacks. Not saying toughness is useless for alot of people, it started with that noob saying that toughness gear does the same damage as berserker gear which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I started out with soldier gear on my guardian, until I realized after hundreds of dungeon runs, getting to 30+ fractals, and learning all of the dungeons that survivability is wasted if you are running in organized groups and hardly ever dieing (or in the case of high lvl fractals, everything does a ton of dmg anyways and there are other ways to mitigate it).

The 3 main things that people use to increase their survivability in a zerker group are:

-100% protection uptime
-100% weakness uptime (look up scale venom potions, they come from a DE vendor in Iron Marches, 2-3 people in your party will provide 100% weakness uptime, the potion does not take up a food or nourishment slot, and lasts for 10 minutes. It only costs 18 copper I believe, we only use it for encounters where we actually need it, not really something you use 100% of the time since most stuff is pretty easy)
-Omnomberry Pies/Ghosts which are OP and heal 338 health on 66% of crits with no cooldowns. My warrior has 93% crit after 25 stacks of precision sigil, meaning he pretty much heals for 338 health on 2/3rds of his attacks with no cooldown. This offers more survivability then any trait you can take. That means when you are using multi-hit attacks or cleaving 3 enemies you have the potential to heal 1k-2k a second while critting for 2.5-3k for each auto attack.

These 3 things are what allow you to stay in melee range and mitigate normal attacks. It still requires that you use your dodges for large "wind-up" attacks for many bosses. There are alot of things that can be avoided by constantly moving as well.

Edited by Strife025, 21 December 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#79 Strife025

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 20 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

After the "condition builds sucks for PVE" and "on dps check necro sucks" who gave us  a great laugh, :D i guess we had enough of those funny illuded peeps truly believing AC speedclear 2 war 2 guardians glasscannon is "be a pro" and others are noobs believing anything else exists, haha let them be on their dreams :D

Nice thread, loads of fun, i was missing this kind of thread from wow days :D

I have an 80 necro in full condition gear, it was actually my first 80 ever. Sorry even if you could get 25 stacks of bleed alone, it still doesn't compare to 2.5-3k auto attacks every .5 second and 12k bursts.

Dagger necros in full zerker can do pretty decent single target damage, the problem is it's single target and they don't offer anything for party dps like a warrior can.

Only unique thing necro has is epidemic, by the time you actually build up your stacks for silver encounters the DD group would have killed everything, which is why I only use my necro for WvW.

#80 Desild

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

What is more disgusting is that some people are trying to sell the idea that Berserker is the be all, end all, armor type. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Sure, it gives you speed and requires near perfect synchronization with the boss. Sure you got to insane levels in fractals in them.

But here's the thing. I don't care about what you play. All I care is how I can improve. Guild War's 1 players that said that IWAY was the way, or that 4 Necro/Ranger/Ritualist/Whatever group was the Meta.

I don't care for your Meta, and you can keep them for all I care. Now don't go prance them around in the community, almost telling them that they should run what you run, or risk being ridiculed.

Had enough of that in GW1 and boy, I sure proved them wrong.

Edited by Desild, 21 December 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#81 zoofman

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostDesild, on 21 December 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

What is more disgusting is that some people are trying to sell the idea that Berserker is the be all, end all, armor type. That couldn't be further from the truth.


I'm not going to defend the attitude a lot of high fractal players take on this. They come off as extremely offensive and treat anyone who doesn't agree with them very poorly.  'Anyone who uses gear with VIT or toughness is trash' is very polarizing.

At the same time it's silly to take offense to something that is showing to be an actual -problem- in the way fractals were designed and how players are getting around it.  It's not about a meta, it's what's showing to be the most effective means of completing these things across the board, and playing denial with what those who are up there are telling us is not helpful.

What we can take away from this is there's a problem with how fractals were set up. Their design highly favors offensive stats because you -can't- rely on your HP or armor, a slip up is DEATH, no matter how much you invested defensively.  We shouldn't deny this flaw's existence; best we can do is work with it at the current and hope arenanet addresses it in their future content.

Edited by zoofman, 21 December 2012 - 12:20 AM.


#82 Strife025

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostDesild, on 21 December 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

What is more disgusting is that some people are trying to sell the idea that Berserker is the be all, end all, armor type. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Sure, it gives you speed and requires near perfect synchronization with the boss. Sure you got to insane levels in fractals in them.

But here's the thing. I don't care about what you play. All I care is how I can improve. Guild War's 1 players that said that IWAY was the way, or that 4 Necro/Ranger/Ritualist/Whatever group was the Meta.

I don't care for your Meta, and you can keep them for all I care. Now don't go prance them around in the community, almost telling them that they should run what you run, or risk being ridiculed.

Had enough of that in GW1 and boy, I sure proved them wrong.

How about you post what you think is good instead of being a whiny baby about people talking about berserker. I'm sure you didn't prove GW1 people wrong by whining instead of offering relevant advice on the subject of the thread.

I went back through the thread just to see if you actually posted about builds or advice for "endgame" but it looks like this is your first post which is basically you whining about the meta.

Edited by Strife025, 21 December 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#83 AXE COP

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

This was an interesting discussion, but unfortunately the quality of discourse has sunk too low to keep this thread open.




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