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Where did the casual game go?


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#1 AureliusRex

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:56 AM

I don't know what to do with this game.  My guild is all but disbanded. I can't get into fotm at lvl 6.  My guild has abandoned WvWvW because its boring (holding supply camps for no reward).  My choices are lower dungeons with guildee alts or real world with no one.

I bought this game to be a casual.  What is there now to keep me here?

#2 Adam2190

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

Join a different guild...?

Edited by Adam2190, 20 December 2012 - 02:01 AM.


#3 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

Wrong game, if you still believe on what was advertised.
But hey, you can still join a zerg group playing wvw, no need of guildies, no need of particular skills, you can even play with white 80 armor and you're pretty awesome :)
Did you try some spvp too ?
If you think i saw die a capped guild (probably one of the biggest of my server) where i was the last online, go figure ;)

#4 iLag

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

Firstly the thngs you state aren't really casual. Find a new guild you can check out the website of the guild I'm currently in if you're from na.

nightmaresofwar.enjin.com


We aren't the biggest but we have regular members talking in guild chat and logging in every day. ( atleast 20 regulars )

#5 AureliusRex

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostAdam2190, on 20 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Join a different guild...?

How is guild jumping a casual friendly option?

View PostiLag, on 20 December 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Firstly the thngs you state aren't really casual. Find a new guild you can check out the website of the guild I'm currently in if you're from na.

nightmaresofwar.enjin.com


We aren't the biggest but we have regular members talking in guild chat and logging in every day. ( atleast 20 regulars )
how are the things I state not casual?  I'm not understanding that statement.  If fractals and WvWvW are not casual then what is casual?

#6 Khlaw

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:21 AM

Assuming, for the sake of argument, things like Fractals aren't casual-friendly...  The casual game hasn't gone anywhere.  It's still there.  It's just that the last the only major content that has been added - in the Lost Shores patch - is less casual-friendly.  Because its new(er), people are gravitating toward it.  I expect (and hope)we'll see a patch soon that expands more casual content.

#7 brokerib

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:23 AM

For context, I'm an extremely casual player (<10hrs a week) and don't run with any particular guilds (I run a solo guild for bank space).

My advice, randomise.  In any of the patches I manage to get on I'll check for pug FOTM or dungeon runs that I'm interested in (if I'm likely to be on for a couple of hours), do a bit of map completion/exploration and random DE's I happen across if they look interesting, hop into WvW for a bit to see if any of the commanders worth following are on and take some badges, then maybe level and alt/do some crafting and check out the trading post.  Or if I'm feeling extra adventurous, hop into a hot-join sPVP match or three.

Gives a bit of variety, and as long as your world population is reasonable there's always other players around to randomly hook up with for half an hour to get an event chain done or take a keep, and then move on to something else.  That along with the daily and monthly rewards for a bit of motivation keeps it fairly interesting no matter how long (or little) I  manage to get on for.

#8 Lythuun

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:12 AM

View PostAureliusRex, on 20 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

I bought this game to be a casual.  What is there now to keep me here?

Seems like you don't really know the meaning of casual. Casual players don't need to be "kept" anywhere, they';; play what they want, when they want.

I've gone from being fairly full-on with my gametime down to what could be called casual and I just do whatever I feel like at that point in time, be it PuG dungeon runs, WvW, sPvP, Jumping Puzzles, or just leveling alts. I've stepped foot in Fractals once, hated it. Hate the gated content because it disadvantages me from easily finding groups, so it's something I stay as far away from as possible.


Quote

How is guild jumping a casual friendly option?

Muilti Guild feature, don't leave the old one and just join a new one and give it a test run. Problem solved.

#9 ssringo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:16 AM

View PostAureliusRex, on 20 December 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

How is guild jumping a casual friendly option?

According to the OP, his guild is "all but disbanded". Unless OP can rebuild the guild himself, he needs to find a new guild. That's not guild jumping; it's finding a good guild. Or at the very least, finding one that's better suited for him.

Edited by ssringo, 20 December 2012 - 03:21 AM.


#10 Cl1p

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:39 AM

View PostAureliusRex, on 20 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

I don't know what to do with this game.  My guild is all but disbanded. I can't get into fotm at lvl 6.  My guild has abandoned WvWvW because its boring (holding supply camps for no reward).  My choices are lower dungeons with guildee alts or real world with no one.

I bought this game to be a casual.  What is there now to keep me here?
For fotm, use gw2lfg.com, or for any other dungeons for that part.
Your other problems are guild related, not game related. There are still plenty of people playing WvW. I'm in a small guild myself with very little active players but I make friends outside of the guild & play with them. How more casual than that can it get :P

#11 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

Casuals are catered through the cash shop - don't play the game, buy chests for a chance at fun!

#12 Coren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

I've become a casual lately, and I honestly still think GW2 caters to my expectations. not the way I thought but still. I don't need fractals to be good enough in dungeons or low level fractals. The day ascended and agony protection become a necessity for story or the majority of dungeons, that's when I'll be worried.

#13 Heart Collector

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

The game is as casual as an MMO can get IMO. Fractals hardly look like they cater to a casual playstyle though. I think you should try out a different guild for the times your guildies are not available for a dungeon, look for a social guild with people who enjoy doing stuff in the open world.

#14 AsgarZigel

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:24 AM

Honestly, just make a pause if you don't enjoy the game anymore. I just come around a bit for every new update if I have the time and have some fun in Tyria again.
Didn't play the Fractals, but the level system does look really dumb for an MMORG, seeing how everyone is searching for a different level in LA.

It should also be noted that GW2, while being casual-friendly in some ways, still is an MMO. And with every MMO, you only get the full experience when playing with a somehow organized group. (either a full-blown guild or a group of friends that plays together regularly)
There isn't really that much interesting solo content in the game. (Jumping Puzzles mainly come to mind for me, but they are not for everyone)
We will see what future updates bring.

#15 Greyhawk

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

http://gw2lfg.com/

this site will become your best friend, if you want to casually play and pug dungeons, or FotM.

i use it all the time and love it early mornings when my guild isnt awake yet.

#16 Sheepski

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:57 PM

View PostAureliusRex, on 20 December 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

How is guild jumping a casual friendly option?


how are the things I state not casual?  I'm not understanding that statement.  If fractals and WvWvW are not casual then what is casual?

How is staying in a dead guild casual, and how is being in an active guild hardcore?

And why would you expect content that was added for the hardcore players, to give them content, to be casual?

Dungeons are very casual.. lots of people running them, no real necessity to have gear/skills/titles, only take 30-45 mins for the average path, good way of getting gear and money etc. If you're on a server where there's few runs going; then go to  gw2lfg.com and you'll find plenty of runs (even fractals lvl 6 if you want to do that).

The game is casual because you can jump into the content, play for however long you want to, and jump out at ease. PvP/WvW requires no preparation time/leveling etc, they both level you to 80 for it, dungeons as I said are easy to jump into for the most part, running round the world obviously is easy and always stuff to do (a different issue if there's people there or not).

You could join a guild which has regular players, some which could be casual in that they play after work/schools etc so have more limited time and therefore you can get groups for things easier, and have people to talk to.

However all the above really only works if you're using the definition of casual that implies being casual is more about time available and therefore looking for instant fun/accessibility more than attitude where you'd expect easy content which rewards you with high end items for not really doing anything, or not caring about performance/building a character correctly or usefully.

Question, feedback or issue? Pm me!


#17 Gruunz

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

Q: Where did the casual game go?

A: It went out the window, because somewhat mentioned in their last reddit Q&A (not exact sentence but) the casual gamer who plays maybe one hour a week compared to the hardcore gamer who plays constantly, they decided to cater to the latter. Reason? Why cater for the casual when he is playing every now and then when there is a whole bunch of other players who are constantly playing (hence the ascended tier).

But this doesn't really answer the OP post at all, as the topic question is quite different.

Response to the actual OP first post, "do whatever you want, there is a bunch of random stuff to do and as mentioned join another guild, you aren't limited to 1".

#18 Millimidget

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostGruunz, on 20 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Q: Where did the casual game go?

A: It went out the window, because somewhat mentioned in their last reddit Q&A (not exact sentence but) the casual gamer who plays maybe one hour a week compared to the hardcore gamer who plays constantly, they decided to cater to the latter. Reason? Why cater for the casual when he is playing every now and then when there is a whole bunch of other players who are constantly playing (hence the ascended tier).
To be fair, you misrepresent that statement. They said they don't design games for people who don't play the games, in response to some question (presumably about power creep) from a guy who said he takes as much as a full month off from the game between play sessions (for whatever real life reason).

That said, I have a newly casual friend whose interest in playing GW2 sparked my own interest in picking it up. At this point, he can't even be bothered to play the game because it's obvious the goal posts will be eternally moving, and even went so far as to watch me run part of a fractal instead of even trying fractals himself, because he knows he'll never get any reward from it. He'd be happy to dump some money into the cash shop, but what's the point when the game is little more than some light fun that he can as easily find in any of a dozen other places. At this point, it would almost be like donating money to a television network because he enjoys one particular program on it.

I've heard some positive things about LotRO being casual friendly; I may try it out to see whether I can convince my friend to join, since I'll be joining him as a newfound casual before long, and its obvious that something as grind-tastic as GW2 won't be adequate.

#19 Devious

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

What do these things have to do with the game being casual?
All can think is that your guild is dying.
Search an other guild or some gaming buddies to play the game with on a casual basis.

#20 Enscheff

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

I fail to see how GW2 is anything BUT casual..

Have 1-2 hours to play and want to run a fractal? Pop on to gw2lfg and have yourself a group for pretty much any level within 10 minutes or less.

Want to pop into PvP? The gear is free for crying out loud, and you can reset your traits any way you see fit.

Only have 15 minutes? Port to an area you haven't completed and finish a chunk of the map.

What more do "casual" players expect? How much less than 15 minutes at a time could you possibly expect to play a game?

#21 DuskWolf

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:26 PM

@Enscheff

I think what they mean is accessibility for casual players. See, in a game like Free Realms, I can play for 1-2 hours and have visited several very different areas, to do some really novel and nicely differentiated content. In that way, Free Realms is very accessible to casual players. It's a lot of fun.

Now, if I were to spend that amount of time playing Guild Wars 2? I'd be stuck in the same handful of samey zones for ages, doing very, very similar content. That could get boring, fast. I'd want to go fight the Shatterer or something, but I'm gated into those zones and I can't go and just do something else, because of the gated nature of vertical progression. So in this way, Guild Wars 2 is incredibly unfriendly to casual players.

Does being stuck in the same handful of zones sound that fun? It doesn't to me. And your only option to get out of that samey handful of zones is to grind (and maybe pay some real money to alleviate some of that grind). So it gets boring really quickly. It's like... what if Skyrim trapped you in Whiterun and forced you to remain there and in its nearby areas for weeks on end? Does that sound like fun? No? There you go.

---Edit---

If you're curious as to how I'd fix this?

Sell dynamic character slots. Sell 'em for about $60 for a character. This character has their gear stats and level adjusted based upon the zone they're in, to provide a fair challenge. Sort of roughly around the gear they'd have done the grinding for. So going back to an earlier zone will knock their gear numbers down as well as their level.

So you could create a dynamic character, and send them straight to fight the Shatterer, the character's level and gear stats would automatically adjust to that content. The desire, of course, to get optional skins and things would still be there, so thus too would the desire for transmutation stones. And it would allow people to play the game the way they want to, in a very horizontal fashion.

I can't see ArenaNet doing this, though. Not predatory enough. :|

Edited by DuskWolf, 21 December 2012 - 10:39 PM.


#22 JStereo

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:39 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 21 December 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Does being stuck in the same handful of zones sound that fun? It doesn't to me. And your only option to get out of that samey handful of zones is to grind (and maybe pay some real money to alleviate some of that grind). So it gets boring really quickly. It's like... what if Skyrim trapped you in Whiterun and forced you to remain there and in its nearby areas for weeks on end? Does that sound like fun? No? There you go.

Except you're not. You have several options that are easy to get into. World exploration, dungeons, PVP, WVW. You don't have to stay in the same couple zones, but if you do that's your decision. I can spend an hour or two one day playing this game and do several different things.

#23 MazingerZ

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:41 PM

View PostEnscheff, on 20 December 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

I fail to see how GW2 is anything BUT casual..

Have 1-2 hours to play and want to run a fractal? Pop on to gw2lfg and have yourself a group for pretty much any level within 10 minutes or less.

The requirement of 3rd party tools in order to get a party within a reasonable amount of time. ಠ_ಠ

Yes... GW2 is casual design.  Because of a 3rd party tool.

ಠ_ಠ

Edited by MazingerZ, 21 December 2012 - 10:42 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#24 DuskWolf

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

View PostJStereo, on 21 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Except you're not. You have several options that are easy to get into. World exploration, dungeons, PVP, WVW. You don't have to stay in the same couple zones, but if you do that's your decision. I can spend an hour or two one day playing this game and do several different things.
Dungeons aren't easy to get into, though. I'm not sure how you can even say that. It's difficult to find a group, and you need to be a certain level to access them. So you can choose to walk into a dungeon about as easily as you can choose to walk into Mordor, I guess. Or however hte meme goes. But really, it doesn't work like that.

If I'm wrong, correct me, but I don't think I'm wrong.

Your other choices count on me wanting to combat other people. I have a nervous condition and an overwrought guilty conscience. If I lose at PvP, I lose confidence in my ability to play, if I win in PvP, I tend to think too much about how crappy I've likely made the other team feel. I'm too empathic, so PvP isn't a good playstyle for me. I prefer playing against an unfeeling program, either with other people or on my own.

So, if you look at it like that, you actually are stuck in the same few zones, doing the same content. Yes, when you've done the grinding to elvel up, you can get into dungeons, you can access other zones. Yes, this is all true. But it takes you weeks to do the grinding to even have the right to get into a dungeon (let alone finding a party for one), which is my point.

It's just not a very casual friendly game.

Free Realms is an exceedingly casual freindly game, and I will keep coming back to that. Every activity that you do in Free Realms can be done at any point by any person, at any level, at any time. And it even has matchmaking capabilities to smooth the process. And I can just go and explore without being locked into a handful of zones thanks to vertical progression gating. FR shows how you can do a casual game right, and allow people to choose the content they want to do. It's not perfect, but sadly nothing is.

Still, it's a step up from the gated approach of GW2 and games like it. Don't take this as a rant against GW2, it isn't. I just like talking things out here, often there's good feedback. It's just more that I'm fed up of gating, period. What purpose does it serve other than to get people to pay far, far much more than they should have paid to access it? In WoW, you're paying a subscription for gated content, in GW2 you're paying for gold to alleviate some of the grind. I'd rather just be able to buy access to the zones themselves and not have to put up with the gating at all.

---Edit----

Also, thinking it might be a great idea to set up some forums away from GW2 for this. I don't want GW2 fans seeing everything as an attack against their game, when many problems of GW2 are just endemic of lazy, stagnant MMO design in general. Too much focus comes down on GW2, perhaps, but it would be nice to have a place to discuss these things.

Things such as what would make both a fair and fun MMO. This is something I'm turning over in my head, anyway. Since these are just general topics as I've been stating lately.

I mean, VP is an issue GW2 has, but it's not solely a GW2 issue. Predatory/exploitative business models is an issue GW2 has, but not solely a GW2 issue. And so on, and so on, and so on. I can understand why GW2 fans would want to defend their game, here, and I don't blame them.

Welp, until I find such a place, I'll hang around and I'll continue to stress that my issues are not solely with GW2.

Edited by DuskWolf, 22 December 2012 - 12:58 AM.


#25 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

Casual? This game is already as fasual as it can be.
And I dont get the anger over the FOTM.
Im not playing it and nor do I care about it.
Have 89g without doing dungeons and fractals constantly.


#26 Trei

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

I'm a casual gamer.

I typically log on for no more than 2-3 hours at night, and not every night.

I don't feel a lack of anything to do, in fact I'm frequently at a loss of what I should start doing next because there are so many things to do.

So I often just follow my friends online and help with what they are doing.

I don't actively aim for all the top gear or best anything, I do hope to get them some day but content and game experience with my friends are more important to me, not material gains.

Are you really a casual gamer?

Edited by Trei, 22 December 2012 - 01:25 AM.


#27 JStereo

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:06 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 22 December 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Dungeons aren't easy to get into, though. I'm not sure how you can even say that. It's difficult to find a group, and you need to be a certain level to access them. So you can choose to walk into a dungeon about as easily as you can choose to walk into Mordor, I guess. Or however hte meme goes. But really, it doesn't work like that.

If I'm wrong, correct me, but I don't think I'm wrong.

A proper LFG tool would solve most of the issues of finding groups, but even without one it really isn't as hard as most make it out to be. Pug groups advertise constantly in LA. (Other than Story Modes because there's no real incentive to repeat it after you've done it once) Dungeons start at 30. Level 30 really doesn't take a long time to get to and most of the leveling dungeons are pretty easy. 30-35: Ascalon Catacombs; 40-45 Caudecus Manor; 50-55 Twilight Arbor, etc.

It's really not as hard as you think it is to get a dungeon group. Sure, you get the occasional knucklehead who won't let you go into an exp dungeon run at the proper level because you're not 80, but that's not always the case.

Honestly, this game has some of the easiest leveling I've seen. No where near as tedious as any other MMO I've played.

Quote

Your other choices count on me wanting to combat other people. I have a nervous condition and an overwrought guilty conscience. If I lose at PvP, I lose confidence in my ability to play, if I win in PvP, I tend to think too much about how crappy I've likely made the other team feel. I'm too empathic, so PvP isn't a good playstyle for me. I prefer playing against an unfeeling program, either with other people or on my own.

PVP isn't for everyone, some people take it too personally. Despite the issue most people have with being stomped by experienced players, or dealing with ragers, the PVP in this game is very accessible. Straight out of the bat you have access to all skills, trait points, and weapons. Armor and rune stats are normalized and a rank 40 player has no statistical edge over a rank 1. Literally requires no grinding unless you want to look cool. At that point it's just a matter of getting experience. However it does need proper match making. Hot join isn't perfect by a long stretch, but it's quick and easy to get into, and matches range from 5-10 mins.

Quote

So, if you look at it like that, you actually are stuck in the same few zones, doing the same content. Yes, when you've done the grinding to elvel up, you can get into dungeons, you can access other zones. Yes, this is all true. But it takes you weeks to do the grinding to even have the right to get into a dungeon (let alone finding a party for one), which is my point.

There is a lot to do, it might be more accurate to say that the small amount that you've done has you in the same few zones but it's a big game and it'll only get bigger. There's A LOT of work that needs to go into it. If it required a sub I wouldn't even consider playing this game, but the nice thing is that if I get bored I can just put it down and do something else for a while and come back whenever I feel like it.

To me that's what a casual game is all about. I don't have to set time aside to raid with the guild or join any scheduled events. I can just pick it up whenever, do some things, then put it down. Getting exotic gear was easy, I didn't have to do a ton of raids and dungeons and hope what I wanted drops. I could craft a few pieces here, buy a couple others there with dungeon tokens. Hell I could buy them off the trading post.

#28 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostTrei, on 22 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

I'm a casual gamer.

I typically log on for no more than 2-3 hours at night, and not every night.

I don't feel a lack of anything to do, in fact I'm frequently at a loss of what I should start doing next because there are so many things to do.

So I often just follow my friends online and help with what they are doing.

I don't actively aim for all the top gear or best anything, I do hope to get them some day but content and game experience with my friends are more important to me, not material gains.

Are you really a casual gamer?
You're describing a medrioce noone. Beware, i'm not being mean, or attempting to tell who play more than you is more "pro" or better. The core of the thread is the casual accessibility. Try to play 1-2 hours per day if and when, not constantly every day too, with a new character lv1. I'm your friend, i invite you to join me for uhm.. an AC all path run( see i was sweet to not tell you arah ;) ) now tell me if you can join. Nope, you still have to grow your road up to 80, (well you still even need base skills lol, let's not mention traits) then wear exotic (or rare at least if your friends are so patient to carry you, assuming you slowly sooner or later will complete your set). Or uhm, wanna join claw? No? why? oh, i guess you don't have the wp, and if you barely go out of the 15 area you're oneshotted. "i can do jp they are fun!" Really. Which one, the 1-15 area one? I can continue, if you keep telling me you're a casual and your gameplay is the casual one for eveyone. ;)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 23 December 2012 - 03:44 AM.


#29 Aetou

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 21 December 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

---Edit---

If you're curious as to how I'd fix this?

Sell dynamic character slots. Sell 'em for about $60 for a character. This character has their gear stats and level adjusted based upon the zone they're in, to provide a fair challenge. Sort of roughly around the gear they'd have done the grinding for. So going back to an earlier zone will knock their gear numbers down as well as their level.

So you could create a dynamic character, and send them straight to fight the Shatterer, the character's level and gear stats would automatically adjust to that content. The desire, of course, to get optional skins and things would still be there, so thus too would the desire for transmutation stones. And it would allow people to play the game the way they want to, in a very horizontal fashion.

I can't see ArenaNet doing this, though. Not predatory enough. :|

I'm pretty sure $60 will buy enough gold for you to get to 80 through crafting and kit yourself out in 80 Rare gear (which is more than adequate for any content.)

#30 Deyadissa

Deyadissa

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostAureliusRex, on 20 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

I don't know what to do with this game.  My guild is all but disbanded. I can't get into fotm at lvl 6.  My guild has abandoned WvWvW because its boring (holding supply camps for no reward).  My choices are lower dungeons with guildee alts or real world with no one.

I bought this game to be a casual.  What is there now to keep me here?

I'm sorry it ended up to be that way in your guild, but I should also let you know that helping people running through dungeons and quests really does help out in the end. My guild for example started out that way. I went around helping as much new players as possible and then I recruited them into my guild because they enjoyed playing with me.

Because I went out of my way to help others, we are now running fractals about one hour a day. Being able to do endgame content while spending less than one hour a day is absolutely fantastic and hardly hardcore. I find it particularly odd that you would complain about such a thing because this game is very friendly to casuals. You never have to schedule over ten people anymore or recruit specific clAsses, especially healers and tanks.


Say what you want, but we are honestly spoiled with this game because you never have to worry about canceling raids because a healer didn't show up. Not only that, endgame can take hours of dedication compared to this.

It's ok to be takei rank 32 guardian




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