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Guild Wars, NCSoft, ArenaNet and the future...


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#1 hippiechic

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:24 AM

This is more intended for ArenaNet employees to read. I know they read these forums and I'm hoping they will see this, think about it, and maybe even respond to it. It is also open for discussion from you guys as it's equally important that they hear what the community as a whole has to say on this topic. This was originally an e-mail sent through guildwars2.com support page but it seems more likely to be read by people that can do something about it if posted here. The e-mail was originally written in response to a lot of talk in Guild Wars 1 that is going on, and talk on other forums about Guild Wars 2, various press releases from gaming websites concerning the Guild Wars games, and this particular disturbing article that is one of many on its topic: http://www.nowgamer....inal_hours.html

Please keep in mind that the focus of this e-mail is on Guild Wars 1, but directly pertains to Guild Wars 2, NCSoft, and ArenaNet in general, as well.

The e-mail was written as follows:

I have been playing Guild Wars 1 since about a month after the release. I got a copy of Guild Wars 2 about two days after its release. I now own a total of six Guild Wars 1 accounts that I play on daily. Some do not have all of the expansions, some are in need of more storage panes and extra character slots. I have been reluctant to purchase anything further since the release of Guild Wars 2, due to the suspicion that the Guild Wars 1 servers would soon be offlined permanently.

There is a lot of speculation in-game that ArenaNet may shut down Guild Wars 1 servers soon. This makes sense seeing as the model for the game is not conducive to running it long term after the initial revenue is collected, due to a lack of monthly fee or other sort of forced recurrence of income. I have held on though, in hopes that things may stabilize long enough to show that it is worth me putting more money into your company.

I was recently made aware that the game City of Heroes was owned by NCSoft, your parent company. They even went so far as to sell new items and upgrades as late as this past August 2012, then announced somewhere around late August to early September that the servers would be going offline permanently. I read about the outrage it caused, and as I read it I could fully understand how they felt. If I had just been lead to believe that a game was alive and well, spent more money on it, then quickly notified that I would never be able to play it again starting in 3 months, I would be very agitated, and rightfully so.

Now I know Koreans probably don't give two shits about American and European consumers as long as we keep pumping money into their company. It makes sense that they will just keep rolling out a new game of the month in hopes they can nickel and dime the world until people realize what's up and they are forced to chapter and make a new company to do it all over again. I mean, I get that. If I was a big time CEO in their position I may look at it the same way.

So here is my question:
Does either ArenaNet or NCSoft plan at any point to put out any sort of statement in writing guaranteeing a specific amount of uptime for the Guild Wars 1 servers?

Guild Wars 1 is a great game. You guys have taken the concepts of what makes Magic: the Gathering and Barbie so enjoyable and figured out how to roll them into one product with a nice GUI and made it competitive enough for hardcore players but easy enough for casual players. You guys figured out how to do what you set out to do upon leaving Blizzard, which I believe was to create a game equally good or better than WoW that did not have to charge a monthly fee and addressed a lot of the problems WoW had.

Guild Wars 2 is another story. It seems you guys may feel you have failed in that respect stated earlier, and decided to basically make WoW2 with a Guild Wars branding, yet still charge no monthly fee. The RMT thing makes sense, CCP has been doing it for years, a lot of newer games are beginning to do it as well. Blizzard screwed it up pretty badly with Diablo 3, but you guys did not make the same mistake in the same respect that they did. The gem store seems to be a decent way of implementing RMT without giving players too much of an advantage. I think Guild Wars 2 has moved away from what made Guild Wars 1 so great, though. Many people agree. But, the numbers show that the WoW platform is simply more profitable, so I get it. Go where the money is.

I understand there are a lot of problems in GW2 right now with exploits and botting and people are ranting about it. They seem to forget that GW1 had the same issues in its infancy as well though, and you guys did a pretty decent job of hashing those issues out. It does concern me a bit that you guys blew smoke for 5 years before finally releasing what many see as beta software, but I am a developer myself and I understand that real life happens and some things simply can't be avoided. If GW2 does not perform as well as you guys hope or need it to, it seems almost certain that GW1 will be the first to suffer from that downfall, though.

What reason should I, or any other player for that matter, have to spend more money on GW1 when we have already recently seen how NCSoft treats their customers? Is this what big business has come to? There is a saying, 'don't shit where you sleep'. It means simply, don't go around screwing things up that are required for your continued existence and health. If NCSoft continues to treat customers poorly, eventually customers will just go elsewhere. Seeing as you guys are part of NCSoft now, that means you will lose as well. The difference being, they are going to cut off subsidies (i.e. ArenaNet) before they themselves go down.

My suggestion is to show something to the community of players you guys have built, that we can trust ArenaNet. Most people I talk to, and not by a marginal amount, do not trust you guys very much at all. You guys almost lost it when you first implemented 6-man Hall of Heroes and so many people left. If not for Nightfall release and the accompanying heroes, I believe you would have had to fold. Nightfall alone has kept you guys going for quite some time, it's simply too good and offers too much to be able to ignore the expansion. Give us, the players, some reason to trust you. An expansion worth buying, a formal public statement guaranteeing a specified time frame of server uptime, add a monthly fee, something, anything, to show you plan to continue forward. At least something to show you plan to take Blizzard's approach to Diablo 2, and figure out a way to bank roll Guild Wars 1 indefinitely even though it could obviously no longer pay for itself.

I hope someone that cares and has the ability to do something about it reads this. I wish you guys the best and hope you get Guild Wars 2 working as desired and it all works out for you. If you cannot, then I will understand and will simply go back to giving my money to CCP. I like Guild Wars better though, and it means a lot to me, and many others, to see you guys succeed. Thanks for your time.

#2 DarkGanni

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:15 AM

Nice letter, well written and well thought. One thing you should keep in mind however is nothing lasts forever.

While your intentions are good you've practically mentioned 2 ideas that would detonate the game's servers. A non monthly fee game playable for past 7 years and all those players wanting to log on GW1 just for old time's sake once in a month, they'd have to pay a monthly fee, straight bash to the face.

Also the game is currently dead cause of GW2, a GW1 expansion will not make it more lively, what's the power of an expansion compared to a full game (GW2)?

Only idea I can see is to add more variety of items to GW2's gem store ( WITHOUT PUNISHING It's players (such as it's currently doing) ).

But yeah, bottom line: Nothing lasts forever. (not even james bond's diamonds)

Edited by DarkGanni, 25 December 2012 - 05:15 AM.


#3 Dasryn

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

i wish i never read that article about city of heroes. . .

im like, traumatized.   you know NCsoft will shut down gw1 and you know they will shut down gw2.

#4 HederaHelix

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

The problem with City of Heros is that it only shut down because no other company wanted to buy the game.  You have to keep that in mind too.

#5 Daesu

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

I thought someone at ArenaNet said, a long time ago, that if GW1 servers are to be shutdown, they would release the source code.  But I can't seem to find a reference to that now, so perhaps I was mistaken.

The only way for a game to last virtually forever is to have a peer-to-peer system (not client-server like we have now) sustained by user generated content and updates.

Edited by Daesu, 25 December 2012 - 08:05 AM.


#6 Quinch

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

Um, hi. Found this thread in my newsfeed, so I thought I'd chip in - if anyone minds, just let me know, publicly or privately, and I'll butt out.

HederaHelix - you might be right, but not for the obvious reasons. We know - sourced in a Q&A with the lead dev - that Paragon Studios management itself was trying to buy itself out from NCsoft in the months leading up to the shutdown. Following the announcement, we've also confirmed* that other publishers have tried to purchase Paragon/CoH from NCsoft, but the price included both a ridiculous amount as well as several pages of provisions that nobody in their right mind would sign.

* I can't source from whom, unfortunately - thus, while I believe them, I'll understand if you prefer to stay skeptical.



Daesu - I very much doubt that. ArenaNet has shown to have consideration for its players, but it is fully owned by NCsoft, which has had a track record of making as sure as possible any properties they shut down stay shut - both by refusing to sell the properties as well as openly prosecuting private servers. So while ArenaNet might be willing to do that, I don't think would be their choice to make, no matter how much it should be.

#7 Milennin

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Maybe they could put the game up for download for those who have a Guild Wars account, and let people play it offline as a single-player game. With Heroes added to the game pretty much everything is single-player friendly anyway. I'd keep it, just for nostalgia reasons.

#8 Dasryn

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostMilennin, on 25 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Maybe they could put the game up for download for those who have a Guild Wars account, and let people play it offline as a single-player game. With Heroes added to the game pretty much everything is single-player friendly anyway. I'd keep it, just for nostalgia reasons.

they'd have to give us a co op feature.  at least.

but the above poster is correct, a lot of the times when a game goes poorly, another company couldpick it up, that could be for better or for worse but if a game like Warhammer and Aion can stay a float, gw2 has more than made up its development costs with sales and gemstore purchases.  

think about it, if you spend aroun 200 dollars in the gem store, you've paid a year of 15/month subscription in advanced!

andthere are a lot of players that have already done something like this.  SO! even though i am scared of NCsoft and their ruthless nature, i hink GW2 has set itself apart from CoH and a lot of game developers are looking to GW2 as the new gold standard.

Gw2 was Funcom's inspiration as stated by the studio head for their new business model.  all eyes are on GW2 and the general concensus is that its doing very well.

#9 Gilles VI

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

View PostMilennin, on 25 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Maybe they could put the game up for download for those who have a Guild Wars account, and let people play it offline as a single-player game. With Heroes added to the game pretty much everything is single-player friendly anyway. I'd keep it, just for nostalgia reasons.

I can see myself playing GW1 again in a couple of years, even offline, just for the nostalgia.. :)

#10 Gileas898

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

As far as I know GW1 private servers have been in the works and there have been working ones, albeit still in an alpha status where some key features the game had are missing.

While they said that GW1 servers would stay up while people still played the game (lol), with Arena Net basically changing completely as a company and even talking negatively about GW1, I doubt even a large player base could make GW1 stay up.

#11 Millimidget

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

For what it's worth, I only recently discovered the Steam store when I had 20m free while waiting for GW2 dailies to reset (the fact that I couldn't find anything interesting to do in-game for 20m has crushed my will to even log in).

To make a long story short, I'm perusing the list, and came across a title and description that looked mildly interesting. Clicked on it and started playing the demo video...the first words that came across the screen are "Nexon," to which I promptly responded by moving onto the next title.

Edited by Millimidget, 26 December 2012 - 05:09 PM.


#12 XgreatArtist

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:25 AM

View PostMilennin, on 25 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Maybe they could put the game up for download for those who have a Guild Wars account, and let people play it offline as a single-player game. With Heroes added to the game pretty much everything is single-player friendly anyway. I'd keep it, just for nostalgia reasons.

well said. I see no reason why they shouldnt do it. In fact even gw2 can be played as a single player. offline mode sounds good

Edited by XgreatArtist, 26 December 2012 - 01:25 AM.


#13 kidawk

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

I played GW1 during open beta and didn't get sucked into it. Was still playing DAoC.

Don't see what GW1 has that GW2 doesn't. Kinda feel like the OP hasn't really played GW2 much lately. Not sure.

#14 Dove

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:34 AM

View Postkidawk, on 26 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

I played GW1 during open beta and didn't get sucked into it. Was still playing DAoC.

Don't see what GW1 has that GW2 doesn't. Kinda feel like the OP hasn't really played GW2 much lately. Not sure.

They're pretty different games. I like GW2 a lot and I've mostly moved on from GW1, but there are definitely things I miss.

At any rate, I understand the concern about this, but I just have no reason to fear as of yet. CoH was a different game, and Paragon was a different studio. I'd imagine the situation would be, at least somehow, different from the shutdown of CoH.

I tend to be pretty unmoved by these kinds of fears, mostly because I've seen threads from the very beginning of GW1 where people were asking about the prospect for the future. Six years later, no sign of ultimate shutdown.

#15 Gileas898

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

View Postkidawk, on 26 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

I played GW1 during open beta and didn't get sucked into it. Was still playing DAoC.

Don't see what GW1 has that GW2 doesn't. Kinda feel like the OP hasn't really played GW2 much lately. Not sure.

The combat system is a lot more intricate and thought out than what it is in GW2.
Dungeons are much much better.
No gear progression.
No crappy money sinks like WP costs or repairs.
A cash shop that makes a ton of player interested in the items, rather than the minority with a gambling addiction.
No Nexon influence on game design.

Some of the major things...

#16 Alleji

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

View PostGileas898, on 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

The combat system is a lot more intricate and thought out than what it is in GW2.
Dungeons are much much better.
No gear progression.
No crappy money sinks like WP costs or repairs.
A cash shop that makes a ton of player interested in the items, rather than the minority with a gambling addiction.
No Nexon influence on game design.

Some of the major things...
Also GW1 had great PvP

Edited by Alleji, 26 December 2012 - 12:01 PM.


#17 Quinch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:59 PM

View PostDove, on 26 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

At any rate, I understand the concern about this, but I just have no reason to fear as of yet. CoH was a different game, and Paragon was a different studio. I'd imagine the situation would be, at least somehow, different from the shutdown of CoH.

Not quite. See, the most worrying thing about CoH's closure was that it showed there is no clear measure that assures survival; no visible scale on which the "keep or close" needle can be seen. Not self-sustainability, not reallocation of resources - it shows that NCsoft can close down a game when and how it wants to, with no reason offered and no thoughts of the players given.

Quote

I tend to be pretty unmoved by these kinds of fears, mostly because I've seen threads from the very beginning of GW1 where people were asking about the prospect for the future. Six years later, no sign of ultimate shutdown.

Frankly, I would be very much surprised if GW1 was shut down within the year, but I'll also be surprised if it isn't within two or three. NCsoft has invested a lot into GW2, both in development and marketing - and it would be a bad idea to alienate the people you're courting to buy your new game by shutting down its predecessor as it goes live. But as the launch rush dies down, and it becomes apparent that those customers willing to migrate from GW1 to GW2 have done so, I have little doubt that GW1 will be taken behind the shed and given the same treatment as the five of those before it.

#18 Cobalt60

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM

View Posthippiechic, on 22 December 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Now I know Koreans probably don't give two shits about American and European consumers as long as we keep pumping money into their company. It makes sense that they will just keep rolling out a new game of the month in hopes they can nickel and dime the world until people realize what's up and they are forced to chapter and make a new company to do it all over again. I mean, I get that. If I was a big time CEO in their position I may look at it the same way.

Lost all credibility and I stopped reading after this paragraph. The writer has no right to make a racist statement like that.

#19 Cures

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

Now I know Koreans probably don't give two shits about American and European consumers as long as we keep pumping money into their company. It makes sense that they will just keep rolling out a new game of the month in hopes they can nickel and dime the world until people realize what's up and they are forced to chapter and make a new company to do it all over again. I mean, I get that. If I was a big time CEO in their position I may look at it the same way.

I hope you get a reply that is as releaxed and friendly as is your ... whatever its supposed to be. If I were a big time CEO i sure know what id tell you with a grin on my face :D

#20 Quinch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostCobalt60, on 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Lost all credibility and I stopped reading after this paragraph. The writer has no right to make a racist statement like that.

I don't know if the post was supposed to be racist or not - though to be honest, I am catching the undertones - NCsoft's attention to anything outside the Korean market has been... opportunistic, at best. This graph from NCsoft's quarterly earnings reports shows that they're overwhelmingly focused on their home turf. As a rule, the only times non-Korean {and especially western} revenue share so much as breaks double digits is during major release pushes.

#21 Izokka

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

View Posthippiechic, on 22 December 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is more intended for ArenaNet employees to read. I know they read these forums and I'm hoping they will see this, think about it, and maybe even respond to it. It is also open for discussion from you guys as it's equally important that they hear what the community as a whole has to say on this topic. This was originally an e-mail sent through guildwars2.com support page but it seems more likely to be read by people that can do something about it if posted here. The e-mail was originally written in response to a lot of talk in Guild Wars 1 that is going on, and talk on other forums about Guild Wars 2, various press releases from gaming websites concerning the Guild Wars games, and this particular disturbing article that is one of many on its topic: http://www.nowgamer....inal_hours.html

Please keep in mind that the focus of this e-mail is on Guild Wars 1, but directly pertains to Guild Wars 2, NCSoft, and ArenaNet in general, as well.

The e-mail was written as follows:

I have been playing Guild Wars 1 since about a month after the release. I got a copy of Guild Wars 2 about two days after its release. I now own a total of six Guild Wars 1 accounts that I play on daily. Some do not have all of the expansions, some are in need of more storage panes and extra character slots. I have been reluctant to purchase anything further since the release of Guild Wars 2, due to the suspicion that the Guild Wars 1 servers would soon be offlined permanently.

There is a lot of speculation in-game that ArenaNet may shut down Guild Wars 1 servers soon. This makes sense seeing as the model for the game is not conducive to running it long term after the initial revenue is collected, due to a lack of monthly fee or other sort of forced recurrence of income. I have held on though, in hopes that things may stabilize long enough to show that it is worth me putting more money into your company.

I was recently made aware that the game City of Heroes was owned by NCSoft, your parent company. They even went so far as to sell new items and upgrades as late as this past August 2012, then announced somewhere around late August to early September that the servers would be going offline permanently. I read about the outrage it caused, and as I read it I could fully understand how they felt. If I had just been lead to believe that a game was alive and well, spent more money on it, then quickly notified that I would never be able to play it again starting in 3 months, I would be very agitated, and rightfully so.

Now I know Koreans probably don't give two shits about American and European consumers as long as we keep pumping money into their company. It makes sense that they will just keep rolling out a new game of the month in hopes they can nickel and dime the world until people realize what's up and they are forced to chapter and make a new company to do it all over again. I mean, I get that. If I was a big time CEO in their position I may look at it the same way.

So here is my question:
Does either ArenaNet or NCSoft plan at any point to put out any sort of statement in writing guaranteeing a specific amount of uptime for the Guild Wars 1 servers?

Guild Wars 1 is a great game. You guys have taken the concepts of what makes Magic: the Gathering and Barbie so enjoyable and figured out how to roll them into one product with a nice GUI and made it competitive enough for hardcore players but easy enough for casual players. You guys figured out how to do what you set out to do upon leaving Blizzard, which I believe was to create a game equally good or better than WoW that did not have to charge a monthly fee and addressed a lot of the problems WoW had.

Guild Wars 2 is another story. It seems you guys may feel you have failed in that respect stated earlier, and decided to basically make WoW2 with a Guild Wars branding, yet still charge no monthly fee. The RMT thing makes sense, CCP has been doing it for years, a lot of newer games are beginning to do it as well. Blizzard screwed it up pretty badly with Diablo 3, but you guys did not make the same mistake in the same respect that they did. The gem store seems to be a decent way of implementing RMT without giving players too much of an advantage. I think Guild Wars 2 has moved away from what made Guild Wars 1 so great, though. Many people agree. But, the numbers show that the WoW platform is simply more profitable, so I get it. Go where the money is.

I understand there are a lot of problems in GW2 right now with exploits and botting and people are ranting about it. They seem to forget that GW1 had the same issues in its infancy as well though, and you guys did a pretty decent job of hashing those issues out. It does concern me a bit that you guys blew smoke for 5 years before finally releasing what many see as beta software, but I am a developer myself and I understand that real life happens and some things simply can't be avoided. If GW2 does not perform as well as you guys hope or need it to, it seems almost certain that GW1 will be the first to suffer from that downfall, though.

What reason should I, or any other player for that matter, have to spend more money on GW1 when we have already recently seen how NCSoft treats their customers? Is this what big business has come to? There is a saying, 'don't shit where you sleep'. It means simply, don't go around screwing things up that are required for your continued existence and health. If NCSoft continues to treat customers poorly, eventually customers will just go elsewhere. Seeing as you guys are part of NCSoft now, that means you will lose as well. The difference being, they are going to cut off subsidies (i.e. ArenaNet) before they themselves go down.

My suggestion is to show something to the community of players you guys have built, that we can trust ArenaNet. Most people I talk to, and not by a marginal amount, do not trust you guys very much at all. You guys almost lost it when you first implemented 6-man Hall of Heroes and so many people left. If not for Nightfall release and the accompanying heroes, I believe you would have had to fold. Nightfall alone has kept you guys going for quite some time, it's simply too good and offers too much to be able to ignore the expansion. Give us, the players, some reason to trust you. An expansion worth buying, a formal public statement guaranteeing a specified time frame of server uptime, add a monthly fee, something, anything, to show you plan to continue forward. At least something to show you plan to take Blizzard's approach to Diablo 2, and figure out a way to bank roll Guild Wars 1 indefinitely even though it could obviously no longer pay for itself.

I hope someone that cares and has the ability to do something about it reads this. I wish you guys the best and hope you get Guild Wars 2 working as desired and it all works out for you. If you cannot, then I will understand and will simply go back to giving my money to CCP. I like Guild Wars better though, and it means a lot to me, and many others, to see you guys succeed. Thanks for your time.

well dude if this feel s as a relief... if you have a gw1 account with every weapon and armor unloked (in the hall of monuments) im willing to buy :)

#22 4arsie4

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

View PostQuinch, on 26 December 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

I don't know if the post was supposed to be racist or not - though to be honest, I am catching the undertones - NCsoft's attention to anything outside the Korean market has been... opportunistic, at best. This graph from NCsoft's quarterly earnings reports shows that they're overwhelmingly focused on their home turf. As a rule, the only times non-Korean {and especially western} revenue share so much as breaks double digits is during major release pushes.

How is that different from most companies? Japan is a major market for Japanese games and consoles. America is a major market for American games and consoles.

#23 FoxBat

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

View PostQuinch, on 26 December 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

I don't know if the post was supposed to be racist or not - though to be honest, I am catching the undertones - NCsoft's attention to anything outside the Korean market has been... opportunistic, at best. This graph from NCsoft's quarterly earnings reports shows that they're overwhelmingly focused on their home turf. As a rule, the only times non-Korean {and especially western} revenue share so much as breaks double digits is during major release pushes.

Recently, yes. But NCSoft used to have a much larger western divison staffed by failure after failure, including Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, western Aion, and City of Heroes (not a total fail the last one.) I think they realized they aren't really read to play in the western arena and have just held onto their sole runaway success, Anet, while they gradually got rid of everything else.

Edited by FoxBat, 26 December 2012 - 02:25 PM.


#24 Quinch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

View Post4arsie4, on 26 December 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

How is that different from most companies? Japan is a major market for Japanese games and consoles. America is a major market for American games and consoles.

Of course. But I think it helps illustrate the exact degree of involvement in - and by extension, consideration for - customers outside their home territory. When Europe and North America together don't so much as break the five percent mark, anything that could possibly happen there can fall under the heading of "acceptable losses". Heck, it barely goes above a rounding error.

View PostFoxBat, on 26 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Recently, yes. But NCSoft used to have a much larger western divison staffed by failure after failure, including Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, western Aion, and City of Heroes (not a total fail the last one.) I think they realized they aren't really read to play in the western arena and have just held onto their sole runaway success, Anet, while they gradually got rid of everything else.

Perhaps, but keep in mind that nearly all of those failures received the bare minimum of support. Mention Dungeon Runners, Exteel or Auto Assault to the average gamer, and the vast majority will give you a blank stare. City of Heroes clung to life for this long by the loyalty of players who managed to find it in the first place, and Tabula Rasa... Tabula Rasa was NCsoft's Pequod, going after the white whale of Warcraft. It bit them in the rear, of course - by the looks of it, they thought that the name recogition of Richard Garriott alone was enough to make it a repeat of whatever circumstances created WoW's breakout success. And most importantly - it was paying itself off, slowly. Maybe even surely, but NCsoft pulled the plug long before it had a chance to, with the Garriott forgery and the subsequent $32 million lawsuit adding insult to injury.

By the looks of it, NCsoft treated its western enterprises like red-headed stepchildren - with no favor, attention or chance to grow, but held to the same standards as its favored offspring. And once each fell short of expectations, well...

#25 xarallei

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Go read the Glassdoor reviews for NCSoft. It's quite an eye opener. I REALLY wish they never bought Anet.

#26 Draugadan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

ArenaNet said that so long as there is a single person playing Guild Wars 1, they won't shut down the servers. But then again, they've made a habit of going back on their word, so who knows...

#27 Quinch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

View PostDraugadan, on 26 December 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

ArenaNet said that so long as there is a single person playing Guild Wars 1, they won't shut down the servers. But then again, they've made a habit of going back on their word, so who knows...

That, and since they're fully owned by NCsoft, won't be ArenaNet's decision to make, no matter how much it should be.

#28 Eon Lilu

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

View PostGileas898, on 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

The combat system is a lot more intricate and thought out than what it is in GW2.
Dungeons are much much better.
No gear progression.
No crappy money sinks like WP costs or repairs.
A cash shop that makes a ton of player interested in the items, rather than the minority with a gambling addiction.
No Nexon influence on game design.

Some of the major things...

This. Im actually thinking GW1 was a better game. Crazy I know.

#29 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

Me too, by miles. Gw1 kept me busy until first months of factions at least (then i didn't agree some company's choices about solofarm and runners killed/ obstructed and left). At least for more than 1 year, i kept playing having loads of fun, never disappointed for 1 minute.
Not like this junk, planning to leave and where to move following the mass, and i'm at 3rd month. Pff

#30 Wayshuba

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 26 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Recently, yes. But NCSoft used to have a much larger western divison staffed by failure after failure, including Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, western Aion, and City of Heroes (not a total fail the last one.) I think they realized they aren't really read to play in the western arena and have just held onto their sole runaway success, Anet, while they gradually got rid of everything else.

This is going to sound funny, but CoH was actually more of a success than GW1 was. GW1 was doing about $3m annually in the last few years before GW2 launch. CoH, even upon the closing announcement and after eight years, was still doing a little more than $2.75m per QUARTER. Even Paragon Studios was totally caught off guard because the game was both stable AND profitable. It didn't even make sense to the shareholders which is why NCSoft stock has cliff-dived over this decision and how it was handled (http://games.slashdo...aying-the-price).

NCSoft commented on the fact it was strategic, which is that they are more focused on micro-transactions and CoH didn't fit well there. Not to mention, just what has gone on with the RNG and MT in GW2 is showing NCSoft's focus lately.




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