42 replies to this topic

[Arquenya]

blindude, on 24 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

not really..its not only that you can level in multiple zones and have choices but its also the layout of the maps thats not linear.Theres not a set path in the zone that you have to experience and its usually higher level content in the middle while lower level on the sides of the map.You can approach it from many ways and in different order which in fact happens all the time especially if you play an alt from different race. Hearts do have levels attached but they hardly force you to follow them in exactly that order and its common there are multiple of the same level ones too.Then events completely mess up with any sence of order when you experience the content.
In short not only ,you dont need to do "that" in order to do "this" both in theory AND in practice but also in most cases cant due to the random nature of events!
Also as far as levelling goes most previous map remain relevant as well. I got from 60 to 70 in a 40 level map something that could never happen in a traditional mmo like wow.That multiplies your options and the approach you could take while levelling.
And then we have ther forms of levelling like dungeons with the fractals upscaling ,crafting and WvW.
I dont know about you but it does seem extremely non linear as far as themeparks go.
Maybe you need to trake of your anti rose-tinted glasses of the complainer??

But the option to level (although slower) in lower level maps doesn't make the setup less linear, it's just that you choose to stay stuck at some point in the line.

And that the heart quests aren't ordered within a map only means that you'll regularly encounter mobs with far too high level for you. Which imo is more a matter of bad design than anything else. I've seen plenty of posts from players that felt completely lost because they were surrounded by far too high level mobs and didn't know where to go, which also has to do with the fact that doing all hearts and DEs you encounter doesn't give you enough levels to proceed to the next area.

So I'm very sorry - it's indeed slightly better than WoW, but it's not extremely non-linear
If the game would upscale you, then I'd agree - but that isn't the case.

And I'm not complaining, just simply stating the facts. Where did I say that linearity is a bad thing?
Just as I said that GW2 definitely isn't a sandbox - but I didn't say that is a bad thing?

Edited by Arquenya, 24 December 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[blindude]

Arquenya, on 24 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

But the option to level (although slower) in lower level maps doesn't make the setup less linear, it's just that you choose to stay stuck at some point in the line.

And that the heart quests aren't ordered within a map only means that you'll regularly encounter mobs with far too high level for you. Which imo is more a matter of bad design than anything else. I've seen plenty of posts from players that felt completely lost because they were surrounded by far too high level mobs and didn't know where to go, which also has to do with the fact that doing all hearts and DEs you encounter doesn't give you enough levels to proceed to the next area. If the game would upscale you, then I'd agree - but that isn't the case.

So I'm very sorry - but it's not extremely non-linear
And I'm not complaining, just simply stating the facts.

But its not a line.You dont have to do EVERY 1-15 map to get to 15 level.You just need 1.So you already have another 4 options remaining for levelling beyond 15 plus all the level 15 -30 map options.
Also about the map making people feel lost thats only a lower level problem.After a point you should be able to experience the map whichever way you want even if  that means facing mobs a few level above you which hardly happened to me(i was constanlty overleveled).You basically open the zone map and say "where i go now? " which is promoted by the exploration and the lack of quest/event hubs (at least visible)
Even sandboxes have levels and hard content/area that you cant approach before getting stronger..thats not what makes a game linear.
Linear means that theres a path that you must take and hardly have a choice upon diversing it.
For me levelling in gw2 was opening the map at 60 for example and saying "oh i want to see shatterer" then completely going out of track of my personal story areas and not only not losing my time but also having progress over my mates that did not go there.In other mmos i would have been punished for visiting lower level content.

Edited by blindude, 24 December 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[blindude]

Arquenya, on 24 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

If the game would upscale you, then I'd agree - but that isn't the case.

And I'm not complaining, just simply stating the facts. Where did I say that linearity is a bad thing?
Just as I said that GW2 definitely isn't a sandbox - but I didn't say that is a bad thing?

But based on what you said even sandbox games are linear just cause you have a few begginings and a few ends and you cant jump between them right away..As long as its an rpg there would be content that you cant get before becoming more powerfull..dont confuse that with having a linear game

Edited by blindude, 24 December 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Arquenya]

blindude, on 24 December 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

8< snip >8

The fact that you can choose between more than 1 area or that other games also have some kind of linearity doesn't make GW2 non-linear, let alone "extremely non-linear".

As long as a game restricts you from going to place A or accessing content B by whatever means before you have done content C or have reached level D or have met condition E, it's just not non-linear.
If GW2 upscaled you and you can just run to Orr and kill some mobs or do Arah path 4 if you desire that - then it's non-linear. GW2 is just less linear than most MMO's; the fact that there's some parallel level areas or options to level in diferent ways (like crafting) doesn't change that.

But I don't see it as a bad thing, why would you?

Edited by Arquenya, 24 December 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[blindude]

Arquenya, on 24 December 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

The fact that you can choose between more than 1 area or that other games also have some kind of linearity doesn't make GW2 non-linear, let alone "extremely non-linear".

As long as a game restricts you from going to place X or accessing content Y by whatever means before you have done content Z or have reached level Q, it's just not non-linear.
If GW2 upscaled you and you can just run to Orr and kill some mobs or do Arah path 4 if you desire that - then it's non-linear. GW2 is just less linear than most MMO's, the fact that there's some parallel level areas or options to level in diferent ways (like crafting) doesn't change that.

But I don't see it as a bad thing, why would you?

Well i didnt say "extremely non-linear" i said "extremely non-linear themepark".
It also has a story which has a begining and an end.It also has character customization which starts and then ends.If having a start and an end makes the definition of linear games for you then yeah it is.
Again even real sandbox  games have some gating of content.That is  called having a structure..i mean they are games after all.In gw2 like with any other game you cant get beyond the limits that are set by the developer.In sandbox games devs give the players the tools to make their own adventure ..in themeparks like gw2 the devs give premade rides for the players to experience but that doesnt mean there cant be a big amount of flexibility there on the way you approach them that give you the ability to shape up your adventure(by choosing what and how you experience each ride)..
Themepark is not a bad term imo.Besides all good themeparks should have sandbox features at the end in order for the game to not die right away after premade content ends.
I believe there could be a game that is a themepark as much as a full sandbox later on at endgame.That would be awsome imo

[Dasryn]

Lucas Ashrock, on 23 December 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

Assuming you still find a dungeon group of the dungeon you like ( i doubt) what waits you when 80 regarding dungeons is learn speedclear runs skipping everything possible , leaving on your back any potential loot. Then fractals and fractals, and oh ye, fractals. Any exploit possible, you have to learn and use it, period, don't even try to tell them "erm how does it work" or " honestly i don't want to skip mobs or use exploits". You will make people laugh tagging you as idiot, sometimes if you insist kicked.
Ye , your efforts will be rewarded appropriately with tokens for a future exotic gear, if lucky you can drop a specific dungeon recipe (using dungeon tokens) to craft named gear. Nothing you could faint for, there is way better and free gear about rings doing fractals. But neck and earring ye, maybe could be still interesting to craft if you're planning to be a farmer (assuming you found the recipe). Opinable.
Shrugs, is this game for you?

i mean, sadly, Lucas sounds not so serious but coming from a staunch GW2 supporter like myself, Lucas is definitely painting a very accurate picture of the current player mentality when it comes to dungeons.

groups love to skip skip skip mobs and content, least amount of resistance, its really sad.

[Arquenya]

Rickter, on 24 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

i mean, sadly, Lucas sounds not so serious but coming from a staunch GW2 supporter like myself, Lucas is definitely painting a very accurate picture of the current player mentality when it comes to dungeons.

groups love to skip skip skip mobs and content, least amount of resistance, its really sad.

Yup, he's talking about people like me

Not that I kick people - I even have a guildie that loves to kill everything in every dungeon - but people go for the highest reward/hour ratio, hence they don't linger around in low level areas either and usually just do the quick & easy dungeons.
Just to give you an impression: once I was asked to join a pug to replace a disconnected player for killing the end boss of some dungeon (CM path 3) and I was astounded when I found out that they actually had cleared the whole dungeon! I had never seen that before (or after for that matter)!

That mentality isn't totally absent in other games of course, but a smart design move in the original GW series with FoW/UW (and other areas) was that all mobs could potentially drop something valuable and you didn't get the biggest chunk of the reward for "completing" the dungeon or killing the "end boss" (or any boss) at all.

But GW2 reversed to the traditional "end boss" mechanic. Once they find out that mobs - and even chests - in GW2 usually have "abysmal" drops and facing that annoying but "skippable" boss for the 100th time (yes Lieutenant Kholer, I'm looking at you), most players don't really bother anymore if they can avoid it.
Which isn't very surprising, in my opinion.

Edited by Arquenya, 24 December 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Dasryn]

Arquenya, on 24 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Yup, he's talking about people like me

Not that I kick people - I even have a guildie that loves to kill everything in every dungeon - but people go for the highest reward/hour ratio, hence they don't linger around in low level areas either and usually just do the quick & easy dungeons.
Just to give you an impression: once I was asked to join a pug to replace a disconnected player for killing the end boss of some dungeon (CM path 3) and I was astounded when I found out that they actually had cleared the whole dungeon! I had never seen that before (or after for that matter)!

That mentality isn't totally absent in other games of course, but a smart design move in the original GW series with FoW/UW (and other areas) was that all mobs could potentially drop something valuable and you didn't get the biggest chunk of the reward for "completing" the dungeon or killing the "end boss" (or any boss) at all.

But GW2 reversed to the traditional "end boss" mechanic. Once they find out that mobs - and even chests - in GW2 usually have "abysmal" drops and facing that annoying but "skippable" boss for the 100th time (yes Lieutenant Kholer, I'm looking at you), most players don't really bother anymore if they can avoid it.
Which isn't very surprising, in my opinion.

its not that im a completionist, i dont mind skipping trash mobs that are not necessary, i havea problem with groups skipping kohler or cave trolls, and groups that skip trash mobs that are in the wya of the path you would take if you happen to have to waypoint back from a death in the fight.

take AC for example, everyone likes to leave the scavenger at the bottom of the stairs prior to the ghost fight in P2, well that scavenger pounces on people as they go by and its insta death.

why would you skip that?

thats my problem.

[Arquenya]

Rickter, on 24 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

groups that skip trash mobs that are in the way of the path you would take if you happen to have to waypoint back from a death in the fight.

Yes I don't skip those. If there's a chance that people get killed, or even worse: pull a whole group of mobs on their way back from the WP, I always kill those beforehand. I don't want to risk wipes and/or bosses resetting.

But tiresome midways bosses like Kholer or Sure-Shot Samus .. meh!

Edited by Arquenya, 24 December 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[DarkGanni]

It may or may not be for you.

Leveling:

Since I've started on my ranger it was all nice and easy, I can say that leveling is ok and when you reach lvl80 you're not going to be "godlike" such as in other games. I've started a guardian and in almost 2 weeks time it's at level 55 now so it's stress free when it comes to leveling.

Dungeons:


If you're used to raiding dungeons and finding items such as rare weapons and armor skins or items with rare stats etc then in this case I don't think this game is for you. A party of 5 members max isn't a raid and even at level 80 it's still 5 people and rare loot is almost non existant to the point where "rare" (gold text) items are salvage / trading post food.

At the end of every dungeon you'll get the usual tokens of the specific dungeon and a final chest that gives trash most of the time. Also as you know there's fractals which are particularly interesting, they can be fun except when it comes to opening the chests at the end of each level, if you get an exotic weapon don't be too fast to celebrate on it cause mostly it's account bound which forces you to either use it, salvage it or put it in the mystic forge alongside 3 other exotics.

All in all, if you want rare skinned weapons be prepared to grind your brains out or spend months working on it the normal way. If grind is your thing then I think you won't have problems. Loot wise dungeons don't offer much variation and if you get an exotic weapon pray that it isn't account bound.

[Rainbrowman]

Maybe you should first try it out if a friend of yours has the game. Or just get the trial.
Trying is always better than asking others.

[iLag]

Rainbrowman, on 25 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Maybe you should first try it out if a friend of yours has the game. Or just get the trial.
Trying is always better than asking others.

If you buy digital edition they will also give you refund if you ask support before its been 6 months

[Lucas Ashrock]

Rickter, on 24 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

i mean, sadly, Lucas sounds not so serious but coming from a staunch GW2 supporter like myself, Lucas is definitely painting a very accurate picture of the current player mentality when it comes to dungeons.

groups love to skip skip skip mobs and content, least amount of resistance, its really sad.

Shhh, don't tell it too loud, most still believe i type fakes and i'm a hater, not someone who post the truth

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 26 December 2012 - 07:37 PM.