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#121 Nalano

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

View Postsanctuaire, on 27 December 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

not at all.
they're competing for grouping.
players *only* looking for warr/guards to complete their group are very real
and shows how much out of balance current classes are for pve as well.
anet should continue on with their skill splits.

.

Consider yourself lucky that those people are willing to advertise themselves as such as it means you can safely ignore them and save yourself the time and effort to carry their incompetent asses.

You had people saying "must have GS 6500+" in WoW too, and all it means was "I don't understand how to play; please carry me."

#122 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostLeger, on 27 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

snip

Stealth is the one most people QQ about.

L2P and AOE is a perfectly valid counter-strategy against stealth. I don't see what the issue with this is at all.

I try very hard to be un-biased when I make judgments in threads like these. I honestly don't think stealth is imba, I've even been playing on other classes in SPvP specifically looking for 1v1 encounters with Thieves to see if there was any truth to all the QQ and I honestly can't seem to find any.

I'm defending my main class, regardless of it being my main class, because given the objectives in GW2 PvP the Thief is indeed under-powered as opposed to imba, read the massive amounts of most I've made as to why that's the case. What I'm absolutely not doing is defending bad players who spam Heart seeker and initative a piss-poor combo with basilisk.

Regardless of what happens with balance I'll continue playing Thief because I'm dedicated to the class as I have been since pre-beta. I find it deeply disheartening however that I'll only ever be stigmatized and scoffed at as a bad player, playing an EZ mode class for doing so when in reality if you consider the multitude of counters for stealth it's really surprising people let those cheese-thieves do as well as they do.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 03:22 PM.


#123 Cole Winters

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

Dear ANet.

I am a devoted "Ranger" player.  In every MMORPG/RPG game I play where possible I gravitate toward the "Ranger/Hunter" class.  Lots of games have different takes on "What makes a "Ranger" a "Ranger".

Objectively speaking, some of the first things that come to mind when you think "Ranger" are nature, bow/arrow, growth, mobility, agility, swiftness, stealthy, animal affinity, primal affinity, living off the land/outdoorsy, Druidic [etc.].  Therefore as long as you touch on some of these elements you can keep a "Ranger-Lover" like myself happy as a clam....However

For the first time I am really having a difficult time "Loving" my Ranger in GW2.  How can this be when you've done such a great job making the ranger "Feel like a Ranger"?  Well to be honest, It's the end-game feeling of the ranger that makes it a dissappointment.  From level 1-79 I experimented with all the weapons, and different combinations.  I tested and spent time learning each and every pet and their quirks.  I got 100% world completion on my ranger and enjoyed almost every second of it!  This is because the Ranger is one of your most PVE-leveling content completion friendly classes.  Utilizing pets, the Ranger has the ability to easily coast through most PVE environments, and feels effective and balanced [if not a little bit too easy].  However, when I hit level 80, and I ran out of world to explore...I began to feel the burden of "lacklusterness" that a lot of rangers feel when our class clearly doesn't mesh well with the current "Endgame Meta".  It is difficult to get a group for Fractals and high level dungeons because the Ranger class is "Good at everything - but great at nothing!"

Who wants a condition build Ranger, who is constantly hitting 25 stacks of low duration bleed on an opponent so that other "more potent" bleeds like the necromancers can't get through?  Who wants a Ranger in melee mode, who puts out less damage overall than a thief, guardian, or Warrior...and goes down quicker too?  Who wants a Ranger on Jade Maw, with their dumb un-stowable pets being targeted by the beam over and over again?  Your development team has stated that the Rangers damage output is based largely upon their ability to micro-manage their pet...but then you gave pets the most retarded excuse for an AI system that they spend half the time swinging at air!  Half of the weapons you've given my Ranger the ability to use aren't viable for high level play!  Spirits are useless minions, with no survivability and pathetic activated abilities.  I look at my trait trees and I wonder....why did they go to the trouble of making so many different traits...and then make a class that can only afford to be built 1-2 different ways if they want to be even remotely efficient at endgame play?  I feel consistently outmatched in PVP/WvW, and I honestly beg ANet to consider making it an option [like in GW1] for a Ranger to forgo having a pet in exchange for higher damage output on their weapons.

I am sure, that people are going to say that "I need to learn to play" and that my complaints have no merit to them.  However,  It has come to the point that "Why play my ranger, when one of the other classes can do whatever my ranger can do...better."  I am sick and tired of people seeing that I am a ranger and refusing to invite me to a party because they need a "Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer".  I am tired of pounding my F2 key/holding it down until the pet AI "figures out what I want".  I am tired of "Lick Wounds" not working for no reason.  I am tired of my pet "trailing behind me being hit by enemy abilities....which then forces me to walk super slow even if I am out of range/not being hit."

Seriously ANet...You went to the trouble of making the Ranger one of your playable classes....now put some effort into making them viable for level 80 content.  There should be perks to the ranger that will make groups WANT a ranger in party!  Make the spirits better!  make the pet smarter?!  Make Duel-wielding axes a viable weapon combination!  ANYTHING!  Just do something!

Edited by Cole Winters, 27 December 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#124 Mura

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

I have a level 80 engineer I leveled only in wvw, and I have a level 80 ranger I leveled mostly in working on pve world completion.

I agree with you, Cole Winters, the ranger has been very nice in pve.  Much easier than playing the engineer.  I've gotten to enjoy the content and the game, without the effort of playing an engeineer.

These days I play only the ranger, so I've also taken my lvl 80 ranger to wvw many times.  I've won solo combat out there, and teamed with my guildies I've felt very effective in wvw battles.  I'm quite happy with my ranger in wvw.  I use the jungle spider and the krytan drakehound, and have a shortbow, axe/torch condition build.  Entangle elite, which is awesome against thieves.

However I found your post very interesting regarding end-game pve, like Fractals, because I haven't experienced that yet.  In pve I use the jungle spider and the lashtail devourer, which are both ranged pets, and hopefully that continues to prevent any trouble with constantly losing pets.  I've gotten pretty decent at swapping pets before one dies.  Again, I haven't used them in any difficult dungeons, I'm only up to fractal level 3, so maybe they will become useless.  I sure hope not.

The class balance philosophies the OP posted in this thread are old, but it looks like they are the guidelines anet refers to when considering balance changes.  It's important to have guiding principles so things don't get out of hand.

So far, I've been extremely happy with the engineer and the ranger classes.  I've fought tons of thieves (who hasn't), and while I agree their stealth is super annoying, especially in wvw,  I'd have to say they do their job of annoying the enemy pretty well.  The ones that are the hardest for me to kill can't kill me either.  The ones that drop me fast, well I had screwed up the fight or was outnumbered anyway.  This works for me.

#125 sanctuaire

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:44 PM

View PostNalano, on 27 December 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Consider yourself lucky that those people are willing to advertise themselves as such as it means you can safely ignore them and save yourself the time and effort to carry their incompetent asses.

You had people saying "must have GS 6500+" in WoW too, and all it means was "I don't understand how to play; please carry me."

while that's true, its also true that its getting harder to get into a group in higher lvl fractals while not being the 'big 2'.
and more and more are posting like that in LA, gw2lfg. just shows how real pve balancing is very poor for classes.
and while that can easily be offset with guildmates and whatnot, sometimes you have no choice to pug it when you
have an irregular scheduled compared to them.

.

#126 Nalano

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

View Postsanctuaire, on 27 December 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

while that's true, its also true that its getting harder to get into a group in higher lvl fractals while not being the 'big 2'.
and more and more are posting like that in LA, gw2lfg. just shows how real pve balancing is very poor for classes.
and while that can easily be offset with guildmates and whatnot, sometimes you have no choice to pug it when you
have an irregular scheduled compared to them.

I'm a full glass cannon ranger and I use GW2lfg daily for fractals.

Average time to get a full group: 11 seconds.

Honestly, I have never experienced what you're talking about.

#127 sanctuaire

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostNalano, on 27 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm a full glass cannon ranger and I use GW2lfg daily for fractals.

Average time to get a full group: 11 seconds.

Honestly, I have never experienced what you're talking about.

wow good for you.

i also use gw2lfg to get groups, and i had less luck than you.
been kicked several times on forming parties just because i'm a thief,
and them being said, get war/guards instead.

then again, my playtime is irregular during 'dead times' on both na/sea
just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean its not happening.
and to be honest, there is a real pve imbalance in terms of group support
abilities on the classes. that's what you get for breaking the trinity and
not giving each class ample support capabilities.

.

Edited by sanctuaire, 27 December 2012 - 05:07 PM.


#128 Nalano

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

View Postsanctuaire, on 27 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

wow good for you.

i also use gw2lfg to get groups, and i had less luck than you.
been kicked several times on forming parties just because i'm a thief,
and them being said, get war/guards instead.

then again, my playtime is irregular during 'dead times' on both na/sea

.

Well, thieves' PvE jobs in most MMOs are indeed to die a lot.

That said, if you're ever at a loss for a fractals group and you need a pick-me-up, look up Nalano.4573.

#129 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

Everyone's a DPS. And that's about it.

#130 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostCole Winters, on 27 December 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

I look at my trait trees and I wonder....why did they go to the trouble of making so many different traits...and then make a class that can only afford to be built 1-2 different ways if they want to be even remotely efficient at endgame play?

Loads of classes are the same too in the sense that; despite the very many trait options, there are very few viable build options. So I, as well as others I'm sure, feel your pain. It's not something that is unique to the Ranger class is the point I'm making.

In fact it's pretty much one of the issues with GW2. Far more restricted than GW1. I hope this'll change with the release of new expansion packs though.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 05:22 PM.


#131 Minion

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I hope this'll change with the release of new expansion packs though.

I can't wait for them to introduce the PvE-only trait lines...

#132 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

I rather have them add Secondary Professions.
And new skills.
Tons of new skills.

And Useful elites with LESS than 1 minute CD.

#133 Nalano

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

View Postsanctuaire, on 27 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean its not happening.
and to be honest, there is a real pve imbalance in terms of group support
abilities on the classes. that's what you get for breaking the trinity and
not giving each class ample support capabilities.

.

Because you edited after I quoted:

I'm a glass cannon ranger. I'm the most selfish of self-centered bastards there are. Hell, I even use Troll Unguent. Still no issues.

#134 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 27 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

I rather have them add Secondary Professions.
And new skills.
Tons of new skills.

And Useful elites with LESS than 1 minute CD.

The logic behind not having secondary professions in GW2 was sound but I feel after a while it'll get stale without. I'd like to see 2nd profs regardless of balance issues.

#135 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostNalano, on 27 December 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Consider yourself lucky that those people are willing to advertise themselves as such as it means you can safely ignore them and save yourself the time and effort to carry their incompetent asses.

You had people saying "must have GS 6500+" in WoW too, and all it means was "I don't understand how to play; please carry me."

Exactly this, I always leave a group if I see the leader advertising like this.. :P

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The logic behind not having secondary professions in GW2 was sound but I feel after a while it'll get stale without. I'd like to see 2nd profs regardless of balance issues.

So a warrior can bulls > 100b you out of invisibility?
That combo alone makes me not want secondary professions. :P

#136 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

So a warrior can bulls > 100b you out of invisibility?
That combo alone makes me not want secondary professions. :P

I don't think it'd be quite like that in practice though :P it wouldn't be in-place in the same way it was in GW1. There would have to be skill/ utility restrictions.

I'd also like to see the Ritualist make a come back :D

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 07:12 PM.


#137 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:30 PM

"We don't want so much skills as in GW1 because they are hard to balance!"
I call that lazy design.

#138 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 27 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

"We don't want so much skills as in GW1 because they are hard to balance!"
I call that lazy design.

Double professions were made what GW1 was a hell to balance, not so much the sheer amount of skills.

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

I don't think it'd be quite like that in practice though :P it wouldn't be in-place in the same way it was in GW1. There would have to be skill/ utility restrictions.

I'd also like to see the Ritualist make a come back :D

Haha yea I'd guess so, but actually I don't want to see it come back.
I'm not really waiting for "everybody needs to go secondary warrior for GS skills because they're better than anything else"..
Remember Ursanway? That was exactly that.

And yea ritualist would be awesome to come back with Cantha expansion, maybe some more active role, the bundles could work as engineer kits, spirits as engi turrets but aybe add some special twist.

#139 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

Harder to balance? Perhaps. More engaging gameplay? Yes.

#140 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Double professions were made what GW1 was a hell to balance, not so much the sheer amount of skills.



Haha yea I'd guess so, but actually I don't want to see it come back.
I'm not really waiting for "everybody needs to go secondary warrior for GS skills because they're better than anything else"..
Remember Ursanway? That was exactly that.

And yea ritualist would be awesome to come back with Cantha expansion, maybe some more active role, the bundles could work as engineer kits, spirits as engi turrets but aybe add some special twist.

But Ursanway and Sabsway were fun :P they were temporarily in place to deal with content that people initially struggled with. I didn't see it as being a massive issue. Ursanway was just funny xD

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 27 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Harder to balance? Perhaps. More engaging gameplay? Yes.

I agree, but just envisage the current QQ.. but multiplieeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#141 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 27 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Harder to balance? Perhaps. More engaging gameplay? Yes.

Yea I see everyone rolling secondary warrior for greatsword skills would be much more engaging gameplay..

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

But Ursanway and Sabsway were fun :P they were temporarily in place to deal with content that people initially struggled with. I didn't see it as being a massive issue. Ursanway was just funny xD

Ursan was just a fail, so OP.
I hated I wasn't allowed to play my own profession for anything, but instead needed to roll a lame skill like that.. :P

Ofcourse they then nerfed it right into the ground so nobody with a brain would ever use it again..

#142 Runkleford

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

Secondary profession? Hell no. It's interesting to see some people who care nothing about balance also defending the thieves' status quo.

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 27 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

"We don't want so much skills as in GW1 because they are hard to balance!"
I call that lazy design.

Lazy design? Adding a secondary profession makes it exponentially that much harder to balance. You can't argue against the math here. Good grief.

#143 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Secondary profession? Hell no. It's interesting to see some people who care nothing about balance also defending the thieves' status quo.

Most professions don't have many weapon sets or many utility skills or many viable builds. It would be silly to suggest that this wouldn't get boring after a few years. Only way to stop it from becoming stale is to either add more weapons more traits or secondary professions. All of these things would influence balance but are a necessary evil.

Also balance get's straightened out over-time. Each and every class will have it's highs and it's lows that's just how it is.

So bored of repeating myself on the subject of Thief balance read cyclic argument up there somewhere.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 09:41 PM.


#144 Runkleford

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

. Only way to stop it from becoming stale is to either add more weapons more traits or secondary professions. All of these things would influence balance but are a necessary evil.

The only way is to add secondary professions? Says who? Adding weapons and traits would be a necessary evil but still manageable. But adding a secondary profession would be a monumental task to balance. You'd increase the number of combinations of skills and synergies to be balanced by an exponentially large number. How can you not understand this?

#145 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Most professions don't have many weapon sets or many utility skills or many viable builds. It would be silly to suggest that this wouldn't get boring after a few years. Only way to stop it from becoming stale is to either add more weapons more traits or secondary professions. All of these things would influence balance but are a necessary evil.

Also balance get's straightened out over-time. Each and every class will have it's highs and it's lows that's just how it is.

So bored of repeating myself on the subject of Thief balance read cyclic argument up there somewhere.

I disagree there, I played my hammer warrior for 6 years in GW1, I think the build changed 2 skills in those years.
And yet I never grew bored of it, even though I played hundreds of hours GvG/HA/TA/RA.

#146 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

The only way is to add secondary professions? Says who? Adding weapons and traits would be a necessary evil but still manageable. But adding a secondary profession would be a monumental task to balance. You'd increase the number of combinations of skills and synergies to be balanced by an exponentially large number. How can you not understand this?

No I said it is a possible ONE of several the necessary evils.

Because by implementing secondary professions, as I said, quite clearly, it does help to read, that you could do it with restrictions in place that weren't present in GW1 evading a few of the inherent balance issues with introducing secondary professions.

You don't have to give an Ele access to every single Warrior utility/ weapon skill. You could give Ele access to a battle-standard. Would this be game-breaking or inherently harmful? No.. Could this add variety/ flavour/ allow for more interesting build combinations? Sure could. This is just an example.

Secondary professions could take a minor role to offer additional flavor.  Like racial skills.. except not as shockingly useless.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#147 Runkleford

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

No I said it is a possible ONE of several the necessary evils.

Because by implementing secondary professions, as I said, quite clearly, it does help to read, that you could do it with restrictions in place that weren't present in GW1 evading a few of the inherent balance issues with introducing secondary professions.

You don't have to give an Ele access to every single Warrior utility/ weapon skill. You could give Ele access to a battle-standard. Would this be game-breaking or inherently harmful? No.. Could this add variety/ flavour/ allow for more interesting build combinations? Sure could. This is just an example.

Secondary professions could take a minor role to offer additional flavor.  Like racial skills.. except not as shockingly useless.

I should learn to read? Maybe you should learn english because you clearly said the "ONLY" way was either to add weapon, traits or secondary professions. Hell, you even call it a "necessary evil".  Why is it necessary? So ONLY 3 options, one of which is an  incredibly stupid option that you keep promoting.

Why would secondary professions be one of the ONLY options? There are plenty of other ways to keep game play fresh without adding secondary profession. Plenty of other MMOs have managed. And thanks for bringing up racial skills because they prove my point. They are mostly useless and not allowed in PVP for a reason because they are not balanced and they're not worth the effort to balance since they would open up a whole new set of combinations and synergies they'd have to test.

Do you really think 8 profession each with their own skills plus having 7 different sets of secondary professions is easy to balance? Do you want to do the math on how many skill combinations and synergies they'd have to test? If you can't even give me a number of how many skill combos there would be how would you expect anyone to balance that mess?

#148 The Shadow

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I should learn to read? Maybe you should learn english because you clearly said the "ONLY" way was either to add weapon, traits or secondary professions. Hell, you even call it a "necessary evil".  Why is it necessary? So ONLY 3 options, one of which is an  incredibly stupid option that you keep promoting.

Why would secondary professions be one of the ONLY options? There are plenty of other ways to keep game play fresh without adding secondary profession. Plenty of other MMOs have managed. And thanks for bringing up racial skills because they prove my point. They are mostly useless and not allowed in PVP for a reason because they are not balanced and they're not worth the effort to balance since they would open up a whole new set of combinations and synergies they'd have to test.

Do you really think 8 profession each with their own skills plus having 7 different sets of secondary professions is easy to balance? Do you want to do the math on how many skill combinations and synergies they'd have to test? If you can't even give me a number of how many skill combos there would be how would you expect anyone to balance that mess?

"Only way to stop it from becoming stale is to either add more weapons more traits or secondary professions."

Re-read that. What doe "either"/ "or" suggest? Generally it means one or the other. In the above instance it means one or the other or the other.

If a team of people are being paid (which they are) and dedicated (debatable), to balance the game, regardless of whether or not it's a mess or difficult to do, it should be done if it has the potential to work out and clearly it does because GW1 is a shining example of an mmo with secondary professions working out. Not to mention GW1 had hundreds of more skills. GW2 is nothing in comparison in terms of the sheer scale of diversity and yet the balance, wasn't THAT awful at times it was though. Balance is achieved after time and to an extent trial and error. But since MMO's are always in flux balance has to change and it will continue to do so.

Is secondary professions inherently a bad idea? No.

Would it be hard to balance if implemented? Yes.

Is it possible? Yes.

Would it be worth it? I certainly think so, if done right. Bare in mind the semi-finished product of said balance would take a while to achieve.

Thief offers no support.
Necro has no burst.
Warrior gets owned by CC.
Engie is versatile but not good at a single thing.
etc etc etc..

These are just some limitations of the single-class mechanic. And in an mmo where every class, initially, was supposed to be capable of doing any one thing... but simply CAN'T.. it's perfectly possible and logical to assume that adding secondary professions may well help different classes achieve whatever goal it is they wish because they can rely on a few skills from a different class.

Edited by The Shadow, 27 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#149 Lordkrall

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

They won't add Secondary profession.
Simple as that.

Secondary professions was supposed to be in GW2 at an early point in development but thankfully they decided to drop it and go with unique professions instead.

The reason that GW1 was more or less completely impossible to balance was because all those combinations.

#150 Runkleford

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:06 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 27 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

"Only way to stop it from becoming stale is to either add more weapons more traits or secondary professions."

Re-read that. What doe "either"/ "or" suggest? Generally it means one or the other. In the above instance it means one or the other or the other.

If a team of people are being paid (which they are) and dedicated (debatable), to balance the game, regardless of whether or not it's a mess or difficult to do, it should be done if it has the potential to work out and clearly it does because GW1 is a shining example of an mmo with secondary professions working out. Not to mention GW1 had hundreds of more skills. GW2 is nothing in comparison in terms of the sheer scale of diversity and yet the balance, wasn't THAT awful at times it was though. Balance is achieved after time and to an extent trial and error. But since MMO's are always in flux balance has to change and it will continue to do so.

Is secondary professions inherently a bad idea? No.

Would it be hard to balance if implemented? Yes.

Is it possible? Yes.

Would it be worth it? I certainly think so, if done right. Bare in mind the semi-finished product of said balance would take a while to achieve.

Thief offers no support.
Necro has no burst.
Warrior gets owned by CC.
Engie is versatile but not good at a single thing.
etc etc etc..

These are just some limitations of the single-class mechanic. And in an mmo where every class, initially, was supposed to be capable of doing any one thing... but simply CAN'T.. it's perfectly possible and logical to assume that adding secondary professions may well help different classes achieve whatever goal it is they wish because they can rely on a few skills from a different class.


Blah blah blah. You still have yet to explain how anyone is to balance the almost infinite combinations of skills if secondary professions are added. You do understand the math when you add a secondary set of skills from 7 extra pools of skills to 8 professions right? Probably not since you're still arguing.




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