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#61 Bioluminescent

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

Wow for a "Class" topic how did you get off on Thiefs.  Are there no other classes! Lots of talk no beef, wheres the beef!

#62 Just Horus

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

Except this isn't a RP game. Sure, RP to your heart's content but don't try to make it seem as though what you like to do in GW2 is the officially-stated standard.

#63 The Shadow

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostShiren, on 25 December 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

snip

I misunderstood the point. I thought it was meant as though Thief has some uber-wtf trait/ skills that mean projectiles simply don't hit, which obviously isn't the case. Thieves are in no means immune to projectiles regardless of stealth. It just means the likelihood of hitting a Thief with projectiles diminishes. But that shouldn't matter. Even if a Ranger is using both Bows, they can still damage, pretty easily, for quite a lot of health, a Thief in stealth providing they predict movement well. I can understand the Pet qualms. They do seem to me to be free access to stealth.

The thing I fail to understand about all these QQ Thief posts is that people seem to think the Thief just vanishes into thin air. You mention guessing. It's not guessing. It's prediction, pretty simple prediction at that. Ranger has several skills on their bar that can seriously piss off a Thief if executed well, maybe not as much as a Guardi or Engie but oh well, you can deal with the hand you got given.

If you want me to post a list of things to do when fighting a Thief I can do, if you want advice on how to kill a Thief, as any class, just pm me in-game or something. I know all the Thief builds going round these days, I know how to counter all of them, if you want general pointers on countering stealth I can explain that too.

The thing is, in PvP and WvW people (all classes) are becoming more and more fluent at countering Thieves, there's evidence on youtube if you don't believe me. The only people that don't or can't are those that QQ as opposed to actually learning more about the mechanics behind the class as well as their own because they wan to be spoon-fed easy kills and Badges like all the other stupid fotm Thieves running around.

#64 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:01 AM

Did anyone else feel that they knew everything that the developer said because that's what the classes feels like to them anyway?

Well, they do to me :P

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#65 MeltyLotus

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

BASED SOLELY ON PVE
Warrior isn't sturdy at all. The only real build to use is shout healing and hope your greatsword can kill whatever fast enough. Depending on where you are Orr or Southsun any sturdy body the warrior had is gone. Never really felt sturdy expect when in lower level areas.

Imo if you took the greatsword away from the warrior they don't have much to offer at all. At least nothing that the guardian can't do as well or even better.

#66 Liquidzoil

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 25 December 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

I can pull out a video from September of Rangers owning everything with Greatsword.

What's your point?

Outdated videos on youtube in SPvP dictate the balance and meta?

As an aside, I find D/D Ele easier to play than Thief.

Want me to take a viedo of me randomly bashing buttons with D/D ele and still kill shit?

Anyone can kill bad players in SPvP with any class just as easily :) Anyone can film a montage, sticking the clips of the noobs they do kill into a video. The good players who happen to take goods videos are for the most part left un-edited and include a variety of combat, not just face-rolling clearly bad players with bad builds.
And look where the ranger is now, bottom tier. Where are the thieves? Still top tier.

My point? A trained monkey can play GW2 as a thief and still own good/mediocre players. Like you said, easy class to play, but I disagree that it's difficult to master. Why do you think some pros are getting pissed off when they got owned by a thief using their trademark combo? It's like camping in an FPS game where the pros are raging because they got owned by campers.

View PostThe Shadow, on 25 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Too bad, my PC is too slow to screen-record and be able to play GW2.

If you buy me a new PC I'd do it gladly.
Hahaha. Sudden haul. XD

#67 Norseman

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:13 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 25 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

No, it means people need to l2p.

I mean seriously. Where's a Thief in stealth gunna go?

Pretty easy to predict really, if you can't, that's down to yo sucking.

There will always be multiple ways for different classes to completely own a Thief in stealth. They just need to know how. Fortunately most people are stupid which makes it easy for Thieves. It's not the class that's the issue, it's the sup-bar people playing every other class who are daunted/ psychologically effected by "ER MAH GERRRD, WHERE HEE GOOO??!?!?!?!"

Riiight. What a load of crap. In every game I have ever played, the proponents of the ez-mode class always use this same shallow argument. I shelved my thief because it is too stoopedly easy to own everything in sight on. I suck at it and still can kill a small group out in PvP by myself.

I started to level it to see what weaknesses it might have in other aspects of the game. It is a bit squishy but is so mobile that is rarely an issue.

Edited by Norseman, 26 December 2012 - 02:14 AM.


#68 The Shadow

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostLiquidzoil, on 26 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

And look where the ranger is now, bottom tier. Where are the thieves? Still top tier.

My point? A trained monkey can play GW2 as a thief and still own good/mediocre players. Like you said, easy class to play, but I disagree that it's difficult to master. Why do you think some pros are getting pissed off when they got owned by a thief using their trademark combo? It's like camping in an FPS game where the pros are raging because they got owned by campers.


Hahaha. Sudden haul. XD

Because there's a lot more skill involved in playing Thief than people think.

Look at TPvP video or streamed footage on youtube. You very rarely see Thieves making that much of an impact. Look at that TPvP Bunker guardian who owns Thieves because they're arrogant. Good players don't see Thieves as being that much of a threat.. There's a multitude of reasons for that.

Also there's a massive difference between a good Thief and a not so good Thief. A good Thief can take on 3-4 level 80s in 42k Karma gear a bad Thief can't take one 1. It's not down to build or armor or because the class is OP because if it were everyone would be able to do it and I guarantee you not may can. It all whittles down to spacial/ environmental awareness, predicting enemy attacks, dodging like a pro (cause you're so squishy you have to) and controlling the flow of combat via stealth. There's some very funny footage of a good Thief doing just that.. I'll see if I can find it.



Very entertaining watch.

I absolutely guarantee you 100% that it takes skill to do what he does at around  2.50.

Don't believe me? Go try yourself :D


View PostNorseman, on 26 December 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Riiight. What a load of crap. In every game I have ever played, the proponents of the ez-mode class always use this same shallow argument. I shelved my thief because it is too stoopedly easy to own everything in sight on. I suck at it and still can kill a small group out in PvP by myself.

I started to level it to see what weaknesses it might have in other aspects of the game. It is a bit squishy but is so mobile that is rarely an issue.

You've obviously never participated in a Zerg or in like.. any difficult explorable dungeon path. Clearly.

#69 MrForz

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

Hello. I'm an Engineer, and I'm going to rant about the Thief class.

I spend most of my time roaming in WvWvW, an Engineer in a world full of Thieves.
No, I have no difficulty fighting them, infact, we're probably the most prepared class to counter them under all their possible builds. What I'm trying to know is Anet's definition of 'Fragile' or 'Low survivability'. Inate stats, okay; but did they take into account their escaping tools and abilities to reset fights at will? These are what makes the Thief one of the classes with the highest survivability. Unless I'm on my glass canon set (rarely these days) and that I'm lucky enough to anticipate a Thief's move to perfection with a flawlessly landed Grenade Barrage after the execution of my Rifle combo, there's probably no chance I'm going to catch a fleeing one after a fight. I've also witnessed videos and people just trolling the ennemy armies by combining stealth moves, Shadowsteps, and Infiltrator strikes, I made one to make experiments on this, it's rather easy, timing is required but still, outrun, pick on some chasers, kill, rinse and repeat.

THAT, is survivability and such abilities gives you the authorization to stuff the way you want, which is most of the time, glass canon, a privilege most of classes don't get to have.

Edited by MrForz, 26 December 2012 - 03:45 AM.


#70 Liquidzoil

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:42 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 26 December 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Because there's a lot more skill involved in playing Thief than people think.

Look at TPvP video or streamed footage on youtube. You very rarely see Thieves making that much of an impact. Look at that TPvP Bunker guardian who owns Thieves because they're arrogant. Good players don't see Thieves as being that much of a threat.. There's a multitude of reasons for that.

Also there's a massive difference between a good Thief and a not so good Thief. A good Thief can take on 3-4 level 80s in 42k Karma gear a bad Thief can't take one 1. It's not down to build or armor or because the class is OP because if it were everyone would be able to do it and I guarantee you not may can. It all whittles down to spacial/ environmental awareness, predicting enemy attacks, dodging like a pro (cause you're so squishy you have to) and controlling the flow of combat via stealth. There's some very funny footage of a good Thief doing just that.. I'll see if I can find it.



Very entertaining watch.

I absolutely guarantee you 100% that it takes skill to do what he does at around  2.50.

Don't believe me? Go try yourself :D

Majority of the thieves aren't like that though. I say the ration is 80% to 20%. Majority of GW2 players doesn't have the skill and knowledge to counter a thief, but a new player can get in, play as a thief and watch that thief hold up against good/mediocre players. See? Anyone who played the thief class doesn't have to be like the guy you posted to be competitive and effective. If you disagree, then fine. Each to his own.

#71 Anzuri

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 25 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

People need to understand that Thieves sacrifice lots and i mean LOTS of survivability in order to do the crazy burst damage they have.

Stop whining, it's the Thief's role. It's one of the "Killers" of the group, and the one you need to pay most attention to.

Guardians have their insane healing/tanking/survibability/boons
Ele has it's awesome versatiliy
Engie has insane crowd control
...
Thiefs have the ability to kill fast (and luckily hardly 14-15k HP and non-existing toughness), that's their role most of the time. Really is NOT that hard to kill a thief, even with their stealth mechanic. (Hint: bring immobilize/knockdowns)

The biggest issue that most have (and I share - never thought I'd ever say a class was OP) is stealth. Yes thieves have high burst at a cost of health and toughness but they can stealth. Poof and zoom around you and sta you in the back, or zoom a way, regen do a /wave then hit you again which is absolutely bs.

Thieves can be countered with aoesand ccs? Yes but only if you can hit them. Once they become invis they have so much mobility you have a ridiculously low chance of getting a aoe hit unless you have an interrupt like guardian shield 5 bubble. Same thing with ccs and conditions you (usually, some skills are the exception) have to land a hit for it to take effect, and then you have to take the thief down quickly or he will simply poof invis, run away heal and /wave. CCs and aoes are usually on the highest cooldowns (some classes have it worse than others) so with your very low chance to hit, if you do miss your usually dead. This is why it tends to take 2 or more to take down a thief.

Don't get me wrong I think it's great to have a stealth class, but in its current form I think the class benefits way too much. And the biggest culprit is how stealth works.

IMO:

1) thieves come out of nowhere and hit you, and if they fail there are no consequences. Only if they hit you in stealth do they get a penalty. If they fail to kill you, poof disappear and come back again, and again, and again. They simply have too much stealth. I've been out of gaming for a while but have never seen a class that can stealth for this long.

2) You never know when you hit - you simply do not know when you have hit a thief as no numbers pop. Unless you are playing something such as a warrior with an adrenaline bar to monitor

3) There are no stealth breakers. This is the one that gets me the most. Almost every other cause and effect in the game has counters. Ying and Yang, except for stealth.

Damage is mitigated by protection, aegis and invuln which are usually short duration bursts and can have long cooldowns. Aegis is only a1 hit block, and protection can be removed by boon removers. Invuln is very short most classes having only 3-5 seconds with a very long cooldown on the skill.

CCs are mitigated by stun breakers, stability and condition removals, also usually on high cooldowns

Conditions are mitigated by condition removals

Stealth is mitigated by ??? Hit blindly into the air, run, sit there and pray. You could use invuln, aegis etc but using those usually have no effect on a thieves stealth (whereas on things like ccs and conditions they still go through their high cooldowns - especially if they are long duration ccs and conditions). Even if the thief hits you whilst invuln or using aegis, its gone very quick, and the thief only has a stealth handicap if it attacks whilst in stealth which most would be smarter not to do. And then you will be stuck as they will simply continue dancing around you and stealthing.

It beats me why there are no stealth mitigating skills / items similar to condition removals and invulns etc that have high cooldowns.

That imo is why most are annoyed at the mechanics of the thief class.

#72 The Shadow

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:30 AM

View PostLiquidzoil, on 26 December 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Majority of the thieves aren't like that though. I say the ration is 80% to 20%. Majority of GW2 players doesn't have the skill and knowledge to counter a thief, but a new player can get in, play as a thief and watch that thief hold up against good/mediocre players. See? Anyone who played the thief class doesn't have to be like the guy you posted to be competitive and effective. If you disagree, then fine. Each to his own.

Absolutely right, you don't need that level of skill to be 'competative'. I posted that video to exemplify the difference between mediocrity and someone who is really quite good with the class. People think it's easy to play and to an extent sure it is, but like I said before...

Easy to play difficult to master. And even the guy in the video makes many noticeable errors and doesn't always manage initiative well. So to suggest that the skill-cap is low or it's an auto-win class is ludicrous.

The thing people often tend to forget is that Thieves are by default be it by poor design or balance or w.e we are by default type-cast into being Roamer's that excel in 1v1 combat. But what do we offer a group in S/TPvP? A lot less than the majority of other classes and a lot less than people seem to think. All we really have is 1v1 ability paired with mobility for capping. Is that OP? Is that imbalanced? No.. GW2 is a team game, PvP is about capping points, it's not balanced towards 1v1 and nor should it be.

The sooner people get the "omg Thief killed me herp derp" mentality nd think "well what is that single kill doing for his team? Who's capping/ keeping more points?" The sooner people will realize  that the class is UP as opposed to OP because of limited versatility/ support ability.

#73 Nalano

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:40 AM

"But what is the thief contributing to the team?"

Little. I agree. In WvW especially they're an annoyance at best, because nobody flies solo in WvW and domination isn't governed by 1v1s on the open field.

That said, a better question is,

"But what is the thief contributing to the fun of the game?"

As it stands, this whole 1v1 skirmisher motif basically pigeon-holes the thief into a troll class. Annoy, escape, annoy, escape, annoy, escape, aggravate on a level outsize to one's actual battlefield effectiveness. They kinda remind me of people who camp as snipers in BF3. The only person more aggravated than you when you're picked off by a guy from half a mile away are that guy's teammates because they're down a man when they're making a push.

But that's pretty much always the case with rogue/assassin/thief archetypes in these sorts of games. I don't understand why developers make the same mistakes over and over: It's very hard to balance stealth when said stealth is relegated solely to one class. Every other ability is shared among multiple classes, rewarding people for countering them: They're generally useful. But then you must treat thieves as their own thing, separate from all else, and thieves must play differently, separate from all else. There is no anti-stealth mechanic, and even if there was, we'd all have to use them just to deal with one class specifically.

It's not unlike ranger/hunter/sniper archetypes where developers make the initial mistake of tying their damage with pet AI, knowing full well that AIs are dumber than a lump of jello and might as well be written off. It took Blizzard three years and Trion six months to discover that you're gimping the hunter class until pets can survive combat. God knows when they'll fix stealth classes.

#74 spirit 3ater

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:58 AM

I find this highly interesting.... if not something ANet has already repeated. Looking forward to the upcoming changes in both PvE and PvP balance. I'm excited :D

#75 Craywulf

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:06 AM

Warrior and the Thief have extremely low bar when it comes to a new player being competitive with those who are more skilled. However both professions have a steep mastering curve. The Thief's Heartseeker is too good and so is Hundred Blades for the Warrior, but these skills are what allow these two professions to be competitive against better players. So maybe ArenaNet doesn't want to nerf these two skills as they might see them as a necessary evil.

The way to fix Heartseeker and Hundred Blades is to give them diminishing returns when using it repetitively. The more they use it the less effective the skill becomes until it reaches it "peak damage" cooldown.

#76 The Shadow

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostCraywulf, on 26 December 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Warrior and the Thief have extremely low bar when it comes to a new player being competitive with those who are more skilled. However both professions have a steep mastering curve. The Thief's Heartseeker is too good and so is Hundred Blades for the Warrior, but these skills are what allow these two professions to be competitive against better players. So maybe ArenaNet doesn't want to nerf these two skills as they might see them as a necessary evil.

The way to fix Heartseeker and Hundred Blades is to give them diminishing returns when using it repetitively. The more they use it the less effective the skill becomes until it reaches it "peak damage" cooldown.

I think that's pure rubbish!

If you actually manage to pull off all strikes of 100b on an actual player then GJ! You deserve your kill, not only that but you deserve a cookie and a freaking achievement too.

As for HS, it's over-used and people complain about it too much. It does less damage at <25% than a crit backstab does and that never used to be the case. People just spam it cause it's easier to pull off than repeat backstabs. That's a L2P issue on behalf of Thieves. The skill itself isn't OP it's the fact it's spam-able but that's the very nature of Initiative.

I personally think that Heartseeker damage should be re-jigged to what it was before. However I think there should be an internal-cool-down-time on how often you can use it, it's a combo finisher, why not treat it as such? As opposed to a spammy-spammy.

#77 Red J

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

View PostAnzuri, on 26 December 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

The biggest issue that most have (and I share - never thought I'd ever say a class was OP) is stealth. Yes thieves have high burst at a cost of health and toughness but they can stealth. Poof and zoom around you and sta you in the back, or zoom a way, regen do a /wave then hit you again which is absolutely bs.

Thieves can be countered with aoesand ccs? Yes but only if you can hit them. Once they become invis they have so much mobility you have a ridiculously low chance of getting a aoe hit unless you have an interrupt like guardian shield 5 bubble. Same thing with ccs and conditions you (usually, some skills are the exception) have to land a hit for it to take effect, and then you have to take the thief down quickly or he will simply poof invis, run away heal and /wave. CCs and aoes are usually on the highest cooldowns (some classes have it worse than others) so with your very low chance to hit, if you do miss your usually dead. This is why it tends to take 2 or more to take down a thief.

Don't get me wrong I think it's great to have a stealth class, but in its current form I think the class benefits way too much. And the biggest culprit is how stealth works.

IMO:

1) thieves come out of nowhere and hit you, and if they fail there are no consequences. Only if they hit you in stealth do they get a penalty. If they fail to kill you, poof disappear and come back again, and again, and again. They simply have too much stealth. I've been out of gaming for a while but have never seen a class that can stealth for this long.

2) You never know when you hit - you simply do not know when you have hit a thief as no numbers pop. Unless you are playing something such as a warrior with an adrenaline bar to monitor

3) There are no stealth breakers. This is the one that gets me the most. Almost every other cause and effect in the game has counters. Ying and Yang, except for stealth.

Damage is mitigated by protection, aegis and invuln which are usually short duration bursts and can have long cooldowns. Aegis is only a1 hit block, and protection can be removed by boon removers. Invuln is very short most classes having only 3-5 seconds with a very long cooldown on the skill.

CCs are mitigated by stun breakers, stability and condition removals, also usually on high cooldowns

Conditions are mitigated by condition removals

Stealth is mitigated by ??? Hit blindly into the air, run, sit there and pray. You could use invuln, aegis etc but using those usually have no effect on a thieves stealth (whereas on things like ccs and conditions they still go through their high cooldowns - especially if they are long duration ccs and conditions). Even if the thief hits you whilst invuln or using aegis, its gone very quick, and the thief only has a stealth handicap if it attacks whilst in stealth which most would be smarter not to do. And then you will be stuck as they will simply continue dancing around you and stealthing.

It beats me why there are no stealth mitigating skills / items similar to condition removals and invulns etc that have high cooldowns.

That imo is why most are annoyed at the mechanics of the thief class.

Hundred times this.

My suggestions:
- Make stealth end on attack, not successful hit.
- Introduce a stealth breaking skill and give it to ranger. Right now they are just cannon fodder. It would make them useful at least.
- Increase the duration of "revealed" to 4 seconds

#78 Kuruptz2

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 25 December 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Please do, I might be able to learn something.

I'm a Thief commander and I struggle to stay alive in a large zerg for any real length of time. So enlighten me please.

Too bad, my PC is too slow to screen-record and be able to play GW2.

If you buy me a new PC I'd do it gladly.

#79 The Shadow

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

View PostRed J, on 26 December 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Hundred times this.

My suggestions:
- Make stealth end on attack, not successful hit.
- Introduce a stealth breaking skill and give it to ranger. Right now they are just cannon fodder. It would make them useful at least.
- Increase the duration of "revealed" to 4 seconds

These suggestions, would either make no difference or very little difference, or would only serve to create other bigger issues.

#80 Aneu

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM

Simple fix to stealth. Any damage recieved by a thief means their stealth breaks. If they have a dot on them when they go into stealth, if that dot ticks they break stealth, if they recieve fall damage, their stealth breaks, if they walk into an aoe and take damage, their stealth breaks.

Implement a 1s stealth debuff between stealths and double the init cost of heart seeker (or make it put a debuff on the thief which halfs their init regen for 5s stacks on duration) - job done.

Edited by Aneu, 26 December 2012 - 01:11 PM.


#81 Bloodtau

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

Shame that pretty much none of the classes stick to any of the descriptions here.

View PostAneu, on 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Simple fix to stealth. Any damage recieved by a thief means their stealth breaks. If they have a dot on them when they go into stealth, if that dot ticks they break stealth, if they recieve fall damage, their stealth breaks, if they walk into an aoe and take damage, their stealth breaks.

Implement a 1s stealth debuff between stealths and double the init cost of heart seeker (or make it put a debuff on the thief which halfs their init regen for 5s stacks on duration) - job done.

This is how stealth was suppose to work but they messed it up.

#82 Bloodtau

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

View PostLiquidzoil, on 25 December 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

So it seems ANet are still sticking to their class philosophies. I think all we can do is just wait and see where this goes and if it fits their class philosophy descriptions. They said that warriors are not as good as rangers in ranged combat so they'll probably nerf the warrior's rifle/longbow skills. Can't say much for the other classes but as for the thief, since they are not planning to nerf their damage and stealth, maybe they'll make them more fragile.  



Even a dog can do it.


THAT! is the best video I have ever seen haha

#83 ErraticFaith

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

I dont really have the mind to post often, so expect me to break politically correct etiquette or w/e and make mistakes. In reality posting just causes debates, which become arguments and little else.

Ok, so most of my pvp experience comes from korean games. Yeah comparisons hold little real relevance I know. Yet still I find myself wondering how any of you would have survived in Aion, where assassin can not only permanently hide with no restriction for 5 whole minutes..but can also disable your toon to the point you dont get a chance to counter AT ALL.

Now that point is not a comment about the balance of that game. Or its links to the publishers. Its designed to show that thief design is a philosophy and with that comes 'player' expectation.

Many people speak of nerfing thief, changing his dynamics and designs. Why because he kills you? what about the thieves, who having their class made boring and worthless all the more, just give up playing. It seems to me all you care about mostly is taking away. Without really thinking what thief players might want or think. In any event you treat them like they dont have the right to defend the class 'you would say that your a thief player! etc' ... well yeah, who wants to see what the spent time levelling ruined by the moans of others.

In my aion reference, the community complained just like you did. The result was that for a short time, only the best could even continue the class, but we arent talking a good thing. As a different class, I went from fearing them, to treating most of them like a joke.

Funny at first, until you realise that everyone will just become a carbon copy warrior and gw2's limited versatility becomes even more limited.

Having played this game on and off for a long time.. I have tried thief, its problem for me is, its too basic. In aion assassin had many skills and little health, the design is different - more to think of > harder to pull off the kills, plus a few things can see through stealth. Here it feels more like your hating on the game/engine design and trying to blame a class for it simply because hes the one who can use hide. Those issues are different.

Tl:dr as most wont care. Maybe instead of trying to render thief useless and unfun for those who love it (and yes its ok to love to stalk in stealth and enjoy 1v1!) you should think about what you can add to their fun, to their class.

They might hate you less, arenanet might actually take anything you say seriously and well, it might just be more productive than kicking a core element from a class and making alot of people quit.

Just a thought though. No way a direct attack on the OP either, threads attacking thieves are all I ever see. Sad really, since with a bit more depth it could be a really fun game.

#84 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostAneu, on 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Simple fix to stealth. Any damage recieved by a thief means their stealth breaks. If they have a dot on them when they go into stealth, if that dot ticks they break stealth, if they recieve fall damage, their stealth breaks, if they walk into an aoe and take damage, their stealth breaks.

Implement a 1s stealth debuff between stealths and double the init cost of heart seeker (or make it put a debuff on the thief which halfs their init regen for 5s stacks on duration) - job done.

Or just remove stealth instead. * the RP-PvPers.



View PostErraticFaith, on 26 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Many people speak of nerfing thief, changing his dynamics and designs. Why because he kills you?

I think a bunch of us who are bitching about the thief are actually PLAYING a thief just because how how stupidly easy it is. Why would we bother with other classes if we can basically AFK games on a thief and still achieve results that are better than what we do on other guys?
Of course, this also means that the game is insanely boring (as I said, you are basically AFKing games), but there is no point in switching to something more interesting because of how stupidly easy it is to win as a thief.

Edited by Protoss, 26 December 2012 - 02:22 PM.


#85 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

View PostAneu, on 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Simple fix to stealth. Any damage recieved by a thief means their stealth breaks. If they have a dot on them when they go into stealth, if that dot ticks they break stealth, if they recieve fall damage, their stealth breaks, if they walk into an aoe and take damage, their stealth breaks.

Implement a 1s stealth debuff between stealths and double the init cost of heart seeker (or make it put a debuff on the thief which halfs their init regen for 5s stacks on duration) - job done.

So what you more or less say is: "Make stealth completely worthless"?

#86 Nalano

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

View PostErraticFaith, on 26 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Why because he kills you?

Yes, just talk past all the points made. It's certainly easier than addressing them.

#87 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

Remember this?
http://guildwars2.mo...:article-239,2/

Quote

MP : The Thief is a very classical class in a MMORPG, what are the big differences between the Thief in GW2 and all others ?
There are three fairly distinct differences. The thief uses stealth very differently than a traditional MMORPG stealth character. He does not rely on coming out of stealth to stun lock and do burst damage. Rather it is a more defensive and tactical ability that he uses to change his position on a battlefield. ...
You jokers, you!

#88 Liquidzoil

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 26 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Absolutely right, you don't need that level of skill to be 'competative'. I posted that video to exemplify the difference between mediocrity and someone who is really quite good with the class. People think it's easy to play and to an extent sure it is, but like I said before...

Easy to play difficult to master. And even the guy in the video makes many noticeable errors and doesn't always manage initiative well. So to suggest that the skill-cap is low or it's an auto-win class is ludicrous.

Get 2 people who have no experience in GW2 and make the other person play a thief and the other the class of that person's choosing. Make them fight and I assure you, that thief will win all the time. I'm pretty sure the other guy who's not playing a thief will not even get a kill. You may not agree because you main a thief but It is an auto-win class. Like I said, a dog can pick it up and WIN.

View PostThe Shadow, on 26 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:


The thing people often tend to forget is that Thieves are by default be it by poor design or balance or w.e we are by default type-cast into being Roamer's that excel in 1v1 combat. But what do we offer a group in S/TPvP? A lot less than the majority of other classes and a lot less than people seem to think. All we really have is 1v1 ability paired with mobility for capping. Is that OP? Is that imbalanced? No.. GW2 is a team game, PvP is about capping points, it's not balanced towards 1v1 and nor should it be.

The sooner people get the "omg Thief killed me herp derp" mentality nd think "well what is that single kill doing for his team? Who's capping/ keeping more points?" The sooner people will realize  that the class is UP as opposed to OP because of limited versatility/ support ability.
Oh god... Here we go again. I don't want to go all through the self pity of the thieves again.

#89 Nalano

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:19 PM

View PostLiquidzoil, on 26 December 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Oh god... Here we go again. I don't want to go all through the self pity of the thieves again.

The writing's on the wall: The only people who defend thieves are thieves and bunker guardians. If I had a beard I'd pull it and ponder that thoughtfully.

#90 Minu

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

View PostNalano, on 26 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

The writing's on the wall: The only people who defend thieves are thieves and bunker guardians. If I had a beard I'd pull it and ponder that thoughtfully.

A bit like every class under threat of the nerf bat due to manic bitching, in every MMO out there.

I would ask to all the hard done by none thieves out there who hate the fact that they cannot always beat someone 1V1, how many maxed out L80 characters do you have in full exotics?  You really need to get a grip of playing other classes, against one another, to actually know the pros and cons of each one, rather than just wail like schoolkids with skinned knees in the playground.




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