195 replies to this topic

[Nitroglicerin]

A picture is worth a thousand words...(graph credits to http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem)

Edited by Nitroglicerin, 23 December 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[Lordkrall]

So, what you are trying to say is: ArenaNet is evil and forces people to pay real money for gems?

Hmm, where have I seen this before...

[Xenomortis]

Are people really surprised that gold drops in value over holiday events and that people want gems for new stuff in the store?

[jirayasan]

I don't understand why people hate ArenaNet so much because they sell gems...either you buy gems or you don't, it's optional. If it goes well for ArenaNet selling gems you should be happy! that means they can get content out faster and more of it.


Edit: And the idea some have that ArenaNet nerfed the loot is false. I get the same loot that i've always got, i run a dungeon and get loot worth 60-70 silver, in 3 paths that's 1.8g-2.1g, with Omnom Bars you can get over 1g every run.

Edited by jirayasan, 23 December 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[Anemone]

There was some update that made the rares drop less in orr, but anywhere else in the game things drop the same as they did before, matter of fact lately I'm getting better drops then I've had before :/

And unless you think that Quagan minipet is gamebreaking there is nothing wrong with games growing in price as the demand for them raises.
Also-why the exactly same topic on mmorpg site?

[Gilles VI]

Is it surprising people want stuff from the gem-shop but don't want to buy gems with real cash, so they trade gold for gems??
Result is higher demand, which *gasps* makes the gem price rise!

Anet has nothing to do with it, or are you going to blame them for putting harmless skins and minipets in the gemshop..?

[Ojikes]

And they really nerfed the loot for farming.. You cant farm the same mob for a few hours now because the loot is almost gone after 30 minutes.

[Lordkrall]

Ojikes, on 23 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

And they really nerfed the loot for farming.. You cant farm the same mob for a few hours now because the loot is almost gone after 30 minutes.

Oh, you mean that thing that was added back in September?

Quite weird that the price didn't spike back then if that was the reason for the spike, aye?

[Strawberry Nubcake]

I like the pink text!

I've been doing a pretty half assed job when it comes to farming for the past week and I've been able to afford to buy a few gems every few days to throw away on boxes.  (Gotta catch 'em all and I refuse to use my credit card to gamble for 'em!)  I haven't had any trouble affording gear for my low level alts and their 80 gear is already taken care of.  Then again, I don't see the need in upgrading gear every 5 levels...

I'm not happy with the price of gems, but acting like it's impossible to afford anything is stupid.

Edited by Strawberry Nubcake, 23 December 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[beadnbutter32]

A games decline is directly related to the number of ever more hysterical denials that anything is amiss.  In this case all it took was a simple graph of factual data.  Methinks the ladies doth protest too much.

[Trei]

Nitroglicerin, on 23 December 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

A picture is worth a thousand words...(graph credits to http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem)

Are you familiar with the concept of Supply and Demand?
You seemed to be... until you got to the pink text.

So are people trying to farm gold to buy gems or gear?
Or are you saying people are trying to farm gold to buy gems so they can sell for gold to buy gear?

[Baldur The Bold]

I have been trying to save for a precursor for a couple of months now. I laugh at the fact that the price of precursors is higher everyday than what I can make ingame. It is even more frustrating that in order to even think about getting a legendary I have to play the TP or use gems instead of actually playing the game.

[atreoo]

I know the price of my precursor increases faster than I have the time to farm.

[Milennin]

Gems are going up. More news at 11.

[moomooo1]

Why do you think that gems are the only way to make gold? I don't comprehend lol.

The hardest time to make gold is during the leveling phase, but you are given karma which is plenty enough to supplement drops to keep yourself updated enough to continue through content.

When you are at max level, you can make 75s - 1g every dungeon run, the fastest runs ranging from 10 - 20 mins. If you can't squeeze in 30 mins every day to do 1 dungeon run, how can you really complain you don't have money?

If we're talking about gem store items, a bank slot(which is probably the most necessary upgrade to buy from the gem store) is 600 gems. Buying gems at 1g = 50 gems, its only 12g. That means you can buy a permanent upgrade that you never gets taken away from you with only 12 dungeon runs. Don't say it's at the expense of your gear either, cos you get dungeon tokens to kit yourself in exotics.

Not only that, but ascended rings can never be bought with RL money. The ascended backpiece albeit has 250x ectos which could be circumvented with gem to gold, but really, if you are able to play enough to earn 1850 fractal relics, you probably play enough to earn a lot of money too.

On the point of precursors, it's a legendary. If you are going for one, you're in it for long haul, it isn't meant to be easy to get. And buying gems to make into gold should never be your first thought to make money. That just shows how unprepared you are to work for the legendary, and perhaps you should rethink how viable that legendary is for you. And before you complain that everyone needs to get a legendary, they don't. It's a status symbol, one that you earn, not get through just playing. Of course I'd like it if there were skill requirements in it's acquisition... but that's completely unrelated to the gemstore.

If you are going to bitch about the gemstore, bitch about RNG over anything else. The gems to gold option is hardly stopping anyone from enjoying the game in its intended form.

[FoxBat]

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19721

From Nov 3rd on it's interesting how close this graph matches. IIRC around that time is when the wave of botting bans happened. Lost shore releases and between fractals and improved dungeon rewards, inflation is rampant and everything starts getting more expensive (since ecto are cornerstone of so many items). While there are some demand spikes in response to store goods as you noted, the bigger overall factor seems to be gold inflation.

As for this P2W discussion, well, to whatever extent the game is P2W, none of the holiday store additions have been. And in spite of the thought that everyone would be selling gems to get half of their ascended gear, gems are instead going up, because evidently more people want those useless event cosmetics. If the thread author is implying anet is "evil" for "raising the price of gems" then they are really just wishing the game had more of a P2W feel, so more people would sell off their gems instead and keep prices lower.

Edited by FoxBat, 23 December 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Gileas898, on 23 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I have done all the high-end content months ago. I know perfectly fine how the game works. The truth is that many gem store items make it easier to finish high-end content. If you don't know this well then you don't know dungeons very well.

Please, show me those "many gem store items that make it easier to finish high-end content".

[Trei]

Baldur The Bold, on 23 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I have been trying to save for a precursor for a couple of months now. I laugh at the fact that the price of precursors is higher everyday than what I can make ingame. It is even more frustrating that in order to even think about getting a legendary I have to play the TP or use gems instead of actually playing the game.

Or you could just stop thinking about the legendary and play the rest of the game, maybe work on acquiring the rest of the components needed.
Who knows, maybe a month from now you might just have a precursor drop for you.

If the rest of the game isn't appealing to you enough to play, then I would wonder why you are aiming for a legendary item in a game you don't want to play.

[Arquenya]

I'd also be interested in exchange volumes, not only prices.

Because in every game with infinite gold spawns and very little little gold sinks, you'd see gold decrease in value.

[Basharic]

Have some economics 10dumb:

Gem availability is low.

Despite you derping about drop rates. Gold availability is high.

That means you will need to spend more gold for gems.


Because gold is easy to get, that means you don't need to spend gems to get gold, meaning when you buy gems you do so with RL money or in game gold, then completely spend the gems you buy on everything else but gold. This suppresses gem availability and feeds the cycle.

Basically the only way for ArenaNet to lower gem prices, short of outright manipulation, is to make gold EVEN HARDER to get in game.

It's ridiculously easy to make at least 2 gold a day doing nothing more than farming ore. The only problem is that requires you to actually move around in game instead of humping one spot or event over and over again while bitching about the game being lame.

I'm currently sitting on 40g+ and all I've done is farm ore frequently, and sell a couple of mystic weapons. I'm easily sitting on at least another 20-40g worth of mats, and I also got a unbreakable choir bell yesterday.

[Gilles VI]

Gileas898, on 23 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I have done all the high-end content months ago. I know perfectly fine how the game works. The truth is that many gem store items make it easier to finish high-end content. If you don't know this well then you don't know dungeons very well.

Oh what items help in dungeons?
The rez orb? Repair kits?

[Arquenya]

Lordkrall, on 23 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Please, show me those "many gem store items that make it easier to finish high-end content".

It depends on how you define "high-end content". Being able to convent gems to gold and buy a perfect excotic set and using boosters and resurrection orbs does help finishing content. With infinite gold, you can buy all the ectos and lodestones you want and together with XP boosters it can get you the ingredients for legendaries (what I'd consider a high-end goal) a lot easier.

Edited by Arquenya, 23 December 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Arquenya, on 23 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

It depends on how you define "high-end content". Being able to convent gems to gold and buy a perfect excotic set and using boosters and resurrection orbs does help finishing content. With infinite gold, you can buy all the ectos and lodestones you want and together with XP boosters it can get you the ingredients for legendaries a lot easier.

Yes but none of that would be P2W, cause they are all available within the game itself for people who do not use the gemstore.

[Ritualist]

Basharic, on 23 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

It's ridiculously easy to make at least 2 gold a day doing nothing more than farming ore. The only problem is that requires you to actually move around in game instead of humping one spot or event over and over again while bitching about the game being lame.

Only if you fail and are not using a bot to harvest shit for you!


EDIT:

Arquenya, on 23 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

It depends on how you define "high-end content". Being able to convent gems to gold and buy a perfect excotic set and using boosters and resurrection orbs does help finishing content. With infinite gold, you can buy all the ectos and lodestones you want and together with XP boosters it can get you the ingredients for legendaries (what I'd consider a high-end goal) a lot easier.

Also, let's not forget consumables - A.Net actually suggested their use when people bitched about the difficulty of dungeons.

Edited by Protoss, 23 December 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[Gileas898]

Lordkrall, on 23 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Please, show me those "many gem store items that make it easier to finish high-end content".

Are you saying that being able to repair as opposed to not being able to repair does not provide an advantage in FotM?

Are you saying that the ability to use a res orb on the Maw after wiping to Agony, as opposed to not being able to use one, is not an advantage?

[Trei]

P4ndora, on 23 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Oh so the fact that I used to get at least 1 unidentified dye per day and since the patch I'm lucky if I get one per week is not a change? That the price of T6 mats and ectos skyrocketed? That lodestone drops are as rare as almost non-existant? Don't tell me it's because of the bots, yes maybe it made the prices higher but it shouldn't have increased this much. Bots are still around, but tbh GW2 never had that much bots than some other games to begin with.
Arenanet made GW2 because they wanted to make an open-world MMO, yet the drop rate in fractals/dungeons are just way better than in open world. People are going to instanced content so why didn't they make it an instanced MMO? No wonder why I never see overflow servers in Orr anymore like I used to pre-LS, heck they even nerfed Plinx so I'm happy if I can see 15+ players helping me with events there nowadays.

ps: Actually I don't have problems with gems / earning money. If I want to buy from the store, I'll buy gems myself with real money. Also, it's not hard to earn money by playing the TP. It's just sad that I have to do that and not playing the actual game to get my legendary.

What I mean is, if you go into a situation with a biased preconception (in this case, that anet is out to push everyone to buy gems with veiled methods) then you will see evidence for such behavior everywhere you want to see.

Sure, drop rates may have been tweaked. But if one has already made up his mind about Anet's actual intentions about it, what tend to occur is known as confirmation bias.

[Arquenya]

Gilles VI, on 23 December 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yes but none of that would be P2W, cause they are all available within the game itself for people who do not use the gemstore.

It depends on how you define "P2W" I guess.

Better gear and boosters definitely increase your chances in PvP or make dungeons and acquiring stuff easier.
If you put "P2W" versus "Work2win" it definitely makes sense.
I don't see how option of "grinding to accomplish your goals" defies the existence of "paying to accomplish your goals".

and:

Gileas898, on 23 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Are you saying that being able to repair as opposed to not being able to repair does not provide an advantage in FotM?

Are you saying that the ability to use a res orb on the Maw after wiping to Agony, as opposed to not being able to use one, is not an advantage?

[moomooo1]

Gileas898, on 23 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Are you saying that being able to repair as opposed to not being able to repair does not provide an advantage in FotM?

Are you saying that the ability to use a res orb on the Maw after wiping to Agony, as opposed to not being able to use one, is not an advantage?

You talk as if these items are what make and break high-end fotm groups. They aren't. Expecting to use them to complete content is a failure of skills/meeting too hard a challenge. We're talking fotm level 50 and above for the res orb to even be remotely considered as standard. The repair canister provides a nice safety net, but I've used one in my entire game time, but have so far accrued over 12 from either chests or daily reward. It certainly doesn't give players a one up on those that don't have them.

Having to use them, or being in a situation where you are forced to use them should actually remind you that you are at a difficulty that surpasses your skill. Considering nothing special drops after fotm 30, and the difficulties before are very achievable to the standard gamer(perhaps not the "casual" gamer). So those finding themselves in a situation where these items are necessary are not gaining anything extra for persevering at the level of difficulty.

This is all a bit of a round about way to say that these items are not necessary in the slightest. Basically no one would be hurt if they were all removed from the game. I actually question why we have them and who in their right mind would purchase them on a regular basis.

Edited by moomooo1, 23 December 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[Lordkrall]

Gileas898, on 23 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Are you saying that being able to repair as opposed to not being able to repair does not provide an advantage in FotM?

Are you saying that the ability to use a res orb on the Maw after wiping to Agony, as opposed to not being able to use one, is not an advantage?

True it might be considered a very slight advantage if you simply suck.
I have yet to find a situation where I died so many times so that my gear started to get destroyed.

Hmm?
You mean instead of having to walk those 30 seconds from the start of the Fractal to the boss if you wipe?

[Gileas898]

moomooo1, on 23 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Having to use them, or being in a situation where you are forced to use them should actually remind you that you are at a difficulty the surpasses your skill. Considering nothing special drops after fotm 30, and the difficulties before very achievable to the standard gamer(perhaps not the "casual" gamer). So those finding themselves in a situation where these items are necessary, are not gaining anything extra for persevering at the level of difficulty.

You hit the nail straight on the head. Using the cash shop allows you to complete content that would otherwise be too difficult for you. Pay to win.

Rest assured, if I was one who regularly used these items I would not be the one posting this on forums. Rather, I am dissatisfied because other people can complete the same content I can not through skill, but through their real life wallet.

Edited by Gileas898, 23 December 2012 - 04:28 PM.