14 replies to this topic

[lungdisc]

I will start by providing my points of view on which upgrades should be built and in which order and also what siege weapons you should place when defending a spot.

The first spot is Longview, SunnyHill, Woodhaven and there are 3 parts of this video:



If you guys feel that the information is constructive then I will do more for camps, other towers and keeps.

Edited by lungdisc, 25 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[coronbale]

Let me tell you the story of TSYM.  Once upon a time there was a guild that was almost unrivaled on the field, however we blew at sieging and defending.  If the siege was going down, 9:10 it was a field siege used to destroy an aggressive treb or soemthing.

Then along came DoP.  This was a guild that LOVED sieging up points.  They would build impossibly defensable points that no realistic army could take with 100 allies.

When we combined into an alliance, they completed our game so solidly that we saw an overnight 100PPT average increase in server score.  The moral of this story?  Somewhere out there people would LOVE to join you in a defensive siege guild.  Whats more, I gaurantee there are amazing field play guilds who would punch a baby to get into an alliance with you.

All else fails, send neo juggernaut a tell, he is the GM of DoP.

[lioka qiao]

My only advice for now:
Always buy the delivery upgrade at the supply camp! *

It lets you use the tower and keep supplies more liberally (for siege, wall repairs, and upgrades).


*  Only exception to this is if you're just camp flipping.  Then just leave the camp paper you're not doing anything with it.

[coronbale]

I usually recommend buying upgrades for home supply camps, and get your team supplies from enemy camps.

Also, if you have a guild that runs teh +5 supply, it changed our game in a lot of ways.  50% increase in supplies everywhere you go is amazing, just cap, claim, and supply up.

Also, all supplies you take from enemies is more pressure on them.

[nalenb]

I don't believe any camp upgrades beyond increase supply influences the amount yak's carry. I watched today at Longview while I upgraded Godslore. I always saw 70 supply to the tower no matter the camp upgrade level. Upgrade camps are nice with the +5 guild buff when a large group wants to stop by and stock up for their next attack.

I tried placing 2 catas like in the video yesterday but was unable to "cannot place siege here". I might not have spaced them out enough though. I had to place one back at the foot of the ramp. However, that cata further back still hits the gate with a single press of "2", so it's probably okay there.

Also, on your treb placement on top of the supply house. It's a good spot, but it is easily hit from a ballista on the ground below it between Longview and Arah's.

I agree that pot of oil, canon, mortar are kind of a waste, but they will slow down a zerg that hasn't cleared them ahead of time, buying the defenders a little time.

I've heard that arrow carts and ballistas behind the gate (like the catas) can take out golems but I've not tried this myself.

I really wish DoP stayed on Dragonbrand or at least put out a guide to defensive siege. I'd love to sit down with those guys and learn. Might be worth jumping to SoS for a few weeks to watch.

Edited by nalenb, 28 December 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Im Legion]

Really liked the videos, thanks for those. Was some stuff in there I didn't know yet and some I hadn't thought about.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Defensive Tip #18:

Know your locations. You should make an attempt to know every single location on every single map. Some camps are stupid easy to defend. Some towers can't be defended no matter how hard you try. Some keeps and towers have treb locations that are darn near impossible to counter.

Waypoint into WvW. Immediately pull up your map. Which locations does your server own right now that are strong defense points. Not 'which ones do I WISH we could defend'. Which ones do you own that are the easiest to defend.

It never ceases to amaze me that when there's a camp with a back entrance from the spawn site and only ONE way in for the other servers AND it has a choke point, most of the time there's no siege there, it's not defended, it's not upgraded, it's not guild claimed. Okay. WHY NOT???

Which towers are easiest to defend? I'm sure Coron could tell you. If you don't know, you need to find out. Find those towers, own them, upgrade them, set up the big guns and for crying out loud, man the defenses! The biggest mistake I see people make is not keeping a crew inside a key tower. Larger guilds are great for this, because they can say "Okay, you five take ten minutes to set up and defend, then we'll rotate you out." But smaller guilds and pugs are great at flipping, good at upgrading but HORIIBLE about keeping a crew inside. When the zerg is there, it's already to late to try and get in.

You should also know every 'safe' location for arrow carts, balistas, catapult's and trebs. A well placed arrow cart can be murder on an incoming force. Take into account line of sight, ability to zoom out (some placements are so horrible for this, the cart is essentially worthless), and distance from the max AoE range. If you're not sure, drop a large AoE on the edge of the wall and make sure you're behind the line.

Make sure some siege are aggressively placed. Attackers love to focus on obvious targets. Meanwhile, your backline keeps firing unhindered. LAYER your siege. Nothing frustrates attackers like red circles with NO GAPs to hide in. You need to hit long range to nail their back line, medium range to kill the AoE club, and close range for wall huggers, rams and Asura (you can't see them from on the wall, but trust me, they're there!)

A good defense means never having to jump down to handle a threat. A good defense should layer out damage without having to explain to the defenders what to do. A good defense turns the front of the gate into an abatoir. A good defense takes knowledge of the structure and careful planning.

Lastly, remember this. If the enemy has enough players, they can take any structure if they are determined enough. No matter how much you plan and how well you defend, GW2 WvW is based on damage output, and damage output scales exponentially with numbers. In short, if the enemy wants it, they can take it no matter what you do. Sometimes, when faced with 100 enemy zerg, it's better to pull off and head somewhere else than waste gold and BPs fighting a losing battle. Fully upgraded structures get flipped. It happens. Better to shift off and start again somewhere else.

[nalenb]

As a follow up, I believe the base supply from yaks to a tower is 35, to a keep is 70. Once increased supply is purchased at a camp, 70 goes to towers and 140 to keeps. I don't believe any other camp upgrades change the amount of supply provided by the yaks.

[lioka qiao]

The yaks also make more deliveries with the delivery upgrade.  It basically quadruples the supply available at the locations the camp feeds.  Yaks carry 2x supply and run 2x more trips.

[Raynott]

Is it just me or is WvW basically missing a "community site" - whereas the (s)PvP-Players got intothemists / top-tier pvp streaming / youtube-channels dedicated to dueling/exposing enemy class weaknesses, I think that WvW is really lacking those things.

You can basically "learn" everything vital (+ extremely useful hints) for spvping by reading it up or watching a few videos dedicated to this exact matter. The same goes - more or less - for PvE (+ it's got gw2lfg which is great!).

In my opinion the GW2 WvW-community also lacks in terms of having archived different tactics / map constellations (e.g. where to build your off/deff-treb etc.)?

Does anyone know of special Youtubers / community sites that deal especially with WvW?

[Wotah]

Raynott, on 07 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Does anyone know of special Youtubers / community sites that deal especially with WvW?

Not that I am aware of.  Not at least that does strictly that.  There were a lot of good ones that came out of BWE3, but so much has changed in the way things are done now that everything needs to be updated.

I would also be interested in any links to such channels dedicated to this.

[Im Legion]

People tend to keep any special knowledge and discussions within their own guild or perhaps their own server.

[lioka qiao]

Im Legion, on 08 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

People tend to keep any special knowledge and discussions within their own guild or perhaps their own server.

Yep you never show your playbook to the other team.

[Raynott]

lioka qiao, on 09 January 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Yep you never show your playbook to the other team.

Isn't this basically the purpose of WvW? I mean not openly and before "applying" your tactics, but they see it [and can follow them, if they choose to do so] anyways, don't they?

[lioka qiao]

You can watch the opponent's offense in football and figure out their playbook based on what they run (and people do that).  You don't see the head offensive coach walk over to the other team and go "here take a look at our plays, this is what we will run today".  That's the best way to get him to field the best defense against your offense.

What we have here is people showing some of their defensive tactics and not all of them.