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#1 Jang Gun

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:07 PM

나는 War Machine 길드의 GW2 리드오피서인 Jang Gun 이라고 한다.

나는 현재의 북미서버 T1 리그에 대해 깊은 환멸을 느낀다.

서로를 이기기 위해 게임에서 의도하지 않은 옳지 않은 플레이와
적 길드 및 서버에 스파이를 잠입시켜 정보를 유출시키고,
상대 서버의 공대장에게 온갖 입에 담지 못할 욕설과 비아냥거림.

난 방금까지도 SoS의 불특정 다수로부터 부모님에 대한 욕설을 지속적으로 받았다.
겉으로는 사과와 젠틀함을 유지하면서 뒤로는 비아냥과 거짓말을 하는 그들을 보며
오랫동안 게임을 해온 나에게 이토록 수준 낮은 적들이 있었을까 자문해 본다.

한편으로는 WvW을 등한시하고, PvE로 가는 아레나넷에 대한 아쉬움과
작은 버그에 대해 발빠르게 반응하지 못하는 개발자들의 대응에 깊은 실망감을 느낀다.

내 이름을 걸고,
게임을 시작한 8월부터 12월까지 5개월 간
나와 워머신은 단 한번도 게임에서 의도하지 않은 부당한 방법으로 플레이 한적이 없다고 자신한다.
오브를 들고 하늘을 날아다니고,벽을 건너뛰어 들어와 오브를 깨고
몇 시간동안 시체로 누워있다 일어나 몇 번이고 반복적으로 똑같은 성을 터는 적들.
그것이 진정한 실력이고, 전술이라며 자랑하는 적들을 보며
혹시 지금 내가 생각하고 있는게 잘못된 것은 아닌가라는 자문을 해보았다.

오늘 나는 이렇게 생각했다.
'이제부터 나도 너희와 똑같은 방식으로 상대해 주겠다'라고.
절벽을 건너뛰어 적의 게리슨 2곳을 깨버렸다.
그리고 이제부터 워머신은 누가 지금까지 했왔던 것처럼
이 게임에 존재하는 온갖 버그를 찾는데 주력하여 알아낸 다음 적을 희롱해야겠다고 생각도 해봤다.

몇 시간 전부터 월드전을 참여하지 않은 채로 많은 생각을 했다.
그리고, 결론을 내렸다.
우린 그렇게까지 비열해지고 싶지는 않다.
수준 낮은 적들과 똑같은 플레이를 하며, 왕좌에 앉은 듯 의기양양해 하고 싶지는 않다고 말이다.

나와 워머신은 이 역겨운 T1 리그를 떠나 우리 길드가 간간히 들러 훈련하던 Kaineng으로 가겠다.
모든 이점과 유리함을 버리고, 순수하게 전투에 집중할 수 있는 곳.
그 누군가처럼 강자가 되기 위해 강한 서버에 빌붙어 호가호위하지는 않겠다.
이전 후 목적을 이루기 위해, 오랜 시간동안 많이 힘들겠지만,
침체되어 가는 월드전과 하위리그를 위해 황량한 사막에서 밀알을 심는 심정으로 T1 리그를 떠난다.

지옥으로 같이 떠날 동지는 오라.


ps. 스톰. 그리울 것이다.


Mod Edit: Translation courtesy of Jabtangs

Quote


I am War Machine's GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers' guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, "if you play dirty, I will react the same way." Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven't been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don't want to play dirty. We don't want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

Edited by unraveled, 27 December 2012 - 07:55 PM.
Added English translation. Because English forum.


#2 Red J

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

You are totally right.

#3 Alaroxr

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

According to my translator:

"I Lead Officer War Machine guild of GW2 as Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current North American Server T1 League.

Play each other to win the game. Unintended wrong
Spy to infiltrate the guild and server information leakage, and
Relative to the server's gongdaejang and swearing not to mention all kinds of mouth sensation biahnyang.

Unspecific majority of the SoS even just from parents about abusive I was constantly
Watching them while maintaining a seemingly apples and jenteulham lie behind biahnyang
Would have had the game for a long time has been to such a low level enemies ask yourself.

And neglecting the other hand, as the WvW regret for ArenaNet to PvE and
Feel deep disappointment to their counterparts in the developer does not respond quickly, for small bug

Under my name,
Start the game and from August to December five months
Me warmer God himself wrote that play only once in the game did not intend an unjust way.
Breaking of skips come in a wall of the sky with flying
Enemies are lying to the body for a few hours, wake up a few times and repeatedly robbing the same sex.
Watching it is true abilities, tactics, saying that boasts the
You think now I'm doing the wrong thing Is not that have consulted.

Today so I thought.
'From now on, in the same way you and I opponent and I will'.
Skipped the cliff, had to break the enemy It's Garrison 2.
And now from warmer God who until now did you, as they have
Focus on finding all kinds of bugs that exist in this game figured out, and then I think I'll go harass the enemy tried

Participation in the World war, a few hours ago without a lot of thought.
And concluded.
We so far mean, do not you want to be.
, And sat on the throne seemed elated and does not want to play the same low level enemies and said

T1 League disgusting to leave me warmer God Kaineng lowest league will go.
Advantageous to discard all of the benefits and pure, where you can concentrate on the battle.
Someone like escort arc to become a strong leader in the Bill attached to the server, I will not.
T1 League World recession is going to feel for the lower leagues before wheat planting in the desert leaves.

Storm. Will be missed."

Edited by Alaroxr, 25 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#4 Gerroh

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostAlaroxr, on 25 December 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

-Stuff here-

You should fire your translator.

#5 Dark

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Goodbye WM! You will be missed. Have fun, wherever you go!

#6 timgod

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

Why Kaineng though? They are destroying the other two servers in their tier...

Hope the rest of SBI sticks with it, it took long enough for HoD and ET to settle in the lower tiers.

#7 coronbale

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:32 PM

Wait what?  The only thing i saw in there that i understood was Kanaing, is WM transferring/?

#8 Vanu4life

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

Goodbye WM, and even though I wasn't on SBI I think I can say for certain that you represented SBI with class and dignity.  There are very few guilds in this game who have lasted as long as you have and even fewer who have accomplished the things you did.  You have to do what you find best for your guild and SBI I'm sure will miss you.

#9 Jabtangs

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

I am War Machine's GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers' guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, "if you play dirty, I will react the same way." Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven't been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don't want to play dirty. We don't want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

Edited by Jabtangs, 25 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.


#10 coronbale

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:49 PM

From what i understand here, WM is tired of the exploiting, and unsportsmanlike like attitude.  For this they are leaving to a lower tier?

To WM i have 2 things to say.  First off, you are one of the only guilds out there that gives us a run for our money, and if you do end up elsewhere, best of luck.

The second thing is this.  Games are like this, ALL GAMES.

TSYM has been spied on, have had enemies in our server, in our guild, and even camping our TS to feed info to the enemy.

We have worked for hours and spent tons of money on upgrades only to have our towers and keeps ninjad via exploits.

We have faced enemies who talked trash, called us trash, and claimed we are all garbage exploiters and our strategies are worthless.

Through all of this, we have stayed true to a code of ethics.  Through all this, we never stooped to the level of our enemies, and through all of this, we have prevailed and defeated our enemies.  What you are looking for you can ONLY find within your own community.  Expect your enemy to cheat, expect him to spy, expect him to spew hate at you.  You are looking for something that does not exist!  Kanaeng will trash talk you, they will say your garbage, they will spam you, they will exploit you.  The only thing you can do is take it in stride, don't let it get to you, and know that you will still beat them without the use of underhanded and dishonest acts.

What your looking for can only be found in single player games.  Perhaps your gaming history has somehow sheltered you from the reality of gaming populations, but this is how it is.  It takes people with character and integrity to show the community a better way.  When people like that take the field, it shows the community a way different from the way things are.

Running isnt the answer.  Maybe you will have to move to see that, but well still be here changing things.

#11 Dark

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

View Postcoronbale, on 25 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

From what i understand here, WM is tired of the exploiting, and unsportsmanlike like attitude.  For this they are leaving to a lower tier?

To WM i have 2 things to say.  First off, you are one of the only guilds out there that gives us a run for our money, and if you do end up elsewhere, best of luck.

The second thing is this.  Games are like this, ALL GAMES.

TSYM has been spied on, have had enemies in our server, in our guild, and even camping our TS to feed info to the enemy.

We have worked for hours and spent tons of money on upgrades only to have our towers and keeps ninjad via exploits.

We have faced enemies who talked trash, called us trash, and claimed we are all garbage exploiters and our strategies are worthless.

Through all of this, we have stayed true to a code of ethics.  Through all this, we never stooped to the level of our enemies, and through all of this, we have prevailed and defeated our enemies.  What you are looking for you can ONLY find within your own community.  Expect your enemy to cheat, expect him to spy, expect him to spew hate at you.  You are looking for something that does not exist!  Kanaeng will trash talk you, they will say your garbage, they will spam you, they will exploit you.  The only thing you can do is take it in stride, don't let it get to you, and know that you will still beat them without the use of underhanded and dishonest acts.

What your looking for can only be found in single player games.  Perhaps your gaming history has somehow sheltered you from the reality of gaming populations, but this is how it is.  It takes people with character and integrity to show the community a better way.  When people like that take the field, it shows the community a way different from the way things are.

Running isnt the answer.  Maybe you will have to move to see that, but well still be here changing things.

I think those comments from [agg] were the last straw for them

#12 Impmon

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

Kainengs a decent server I was there for awhile.  Even when outnumbered considerably by Devona's Rest the people never gave up.  At times all they could hold was one supply camp & they'd totally seige it up and hold just that while the DR zerg fed us bags upon bags.

#13 NCLTDS

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

Better a different server than different game. Good luck in k town.

#14 coronbale

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

View PostDark, on 26 December 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

I think those comments from [agg] were the last straw for them
Honestly, it has nothing to do with anyone but WM.  Getting mad at the world and quitting isnt the answer.  If you think T6 is going to be accepting, sportsmanlike, honorable, and repsectful, you are in for a rude awakening.  WM has to make the stand, WM has to chose to fix it.

There is no promised land that you dont make for yourself.  No matter how far we go, exploiters will still be in the game.  T1 has shown the most resistance to this than any tier ive seen so far.  Players like cover girl and jedbacca immediatly reporting people exploiting on their own server, exploiting and getting PPT for them!

If T1 makes a stand, if T1 draws the line and shows a better way to play, THAT is what might change the game.  Top down.

#15 timgod

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:14 AM

I really wish they hadn't announced this and just made the move. All this does is torch SBIs morale and invite other guilds to join them while they PvD Kaineng up to a higher tier.

#16 GoGoGhosty

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:20 AM

This is disappointing to me. WM was a ton of fight, and I am sad that they are leaving. While not to discredit the other amazing guilds of SBI, WM was their largest and greatest fighting force, and without them I fear that SBI will not be able to continue to give us the amazingly close matches we have had these last 2 months. I hope to be proven wrong in this.

As to WM, I feel like this is taking your ball and going home. All the crap that goes on in T1 will happen in other tiers, and a guild of your size should have a tough enough skin to handle it. Perhaps it is a cultural thing, so I won't go so far as to call you out on it, but I still feel you are making a big mistake. Kanaing will not provide adequate challenges for a guild of your ability, and without the challenge it will be hard to keep your players interested. If this move does not work out for you, please consider moving back into one of the top 2 tiers, as this is where you guys truly belong.

SBI, keep on fighting, and hopefully recruiting. I would hate to see you guys turn out like HoD or ET over this, hopefully you can do what we did when prx left and use it to bring your community closer together.

Best of luck all and Merry Christmas.

#17 coronbale

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

SBI is facing a loss similar to SoS when PRX left.  Everyone doubted our ability while the ones who knew better never doubted.

I dont doubt now, SBI has amazing guilds and will continue to kick butt

#18 MrZero

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

View Postcoronbale, on 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Honestly, it has nothing to do with anyone but WM.  Getting mad at the world and quitting isnt the answer.  If you think T6 is going to be accepting, sportsmanlike, honorable, and repsectful, you are in for a rude awakening.  WM has to make the stand, WM has to chose to fix it.

There is no promised land that you dont make for yourself.  No matter how far we go, exploiters will still be in the game.  T1 has shown the most resistance to this than any tier ive seen so far.  Players like cover girl and jedbacca immediatly reporting people exploiting on their own server, exploiting and getting PPT for them!

If T1 makes a stand, if T1 draws the line and shows a better way to play, THAT is what might change the game.  Top down.

We've fought HoD before and put up with their shit. SoS is starting down that road. JQ has been a bitchy, whiny, $%ck ridden, (the H word not the F word) bunch. They are sick of it. There isn't a damn thing any of you can do about it. Because if you are reading this and getting offended, you are not the problem. Just like the people on #ackgate that hate me.

Too bad.

Have fun WM, I'll miss you guys. You were the most pug friendly guild on the server. We'll see you soon as we all know SBI is going to drop and Kaineng is going to rise.

#19 Kreen

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:50 AM

Sorry to see you leave SBI, was alot of fun fighting you folks. I respect your decision. Hope you find what you are looking for.

#20 FoE

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:14 AM

WM always gave FoE a tough fight.  /salute

#21 Tomizu

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:25 AM

Not only SBI misses you, we all miss you.
Not only you suffered these s**t, we were all suffering these s**t.

Anyway, good luck and wish WM the best.

Edited by Tomizu, 26 December 2012 - 02:27 AM.


#22 Cirus

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:48 AM

It's very disappointing to hear this.

War Machine are excellent opponents and fighting them will be missed. For me personally War Machine are an icon of SBI and SBI won't be the same without them.

However I think it's unfair to scapegoat 1 server as being the cause of all your problems. Everything you have described is exactly what we experienced for the first time from SBI and JQ as soon as we entered tier 1. That doesn't make it okay, it's disgusting filthy behaviour, but our servers are all as bad as each other in this regard.

Wish WM all the best of luck in Kaineng, and may you guys find what you're looking for, honest WvW.

#23 Kyiv

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

View PostMrZero, on 26 December 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:


We've fought HoD before and put up with their shit. SoS is starting down that road. JQ has been a bitchy, whiny, $%ck ridden, (the H word not the F word) bunch. They are sick of it. There isn't a damn thing any of you can do about it. Because if you are reading this and getting offended, you are not the problem. Just like the people on #ackgate that hate me

SBI is just as bad as JQ, SoS or HOD.  Heck I had to block 10 SBI people cause I said SOS was the true #1 server a few weeks ago. Point is, things are a lot more serious and intense on the top than the bottom.  When I played on Kaineng for a week, it was really refreshing.  People were having fun and just doing stuff to continue that fun without stressing about anything too much.  Though that was awhile ago, I don't blame them.  Sure they will still experience negative things, they can't escape that, but hopefully their experience will be an improved one.

#24 Smokee

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:10 AM

Its kinda funny to see WM complaning about getting abusive tells and mails from others, cause when BG were up against SBI, we got alot of that from WM.

On topic, I heard WM is only a shadow of what they used to be. They will be a nice addition to any low tier server though.

#25 Vaashper Stomper

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

View PostJabtangs, on 25 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

I am War Machine's GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers' guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, "if you play dirty, I will react the same way." Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven't been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don't want to play dirty. We don't want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

Jang Gun and the rest of WM,
You are a great guild, and have given us in SOS a great run for our money. I wish you well in any server you are going to. I do not know who are the people who you are referencing to in your post whom you say play dirty. although i do not condone the actions, i do have to tell you, this is WAR. you have to expect this to happen, no matter what tier you are in. if a group wants to win bad enough, they will resolve to tactics, be it espionage, propoganda or just plain dirty politics. but its part of the game, and please dont think your guild members are all angelic, they will do the same to us and JQ. its a shame to see you guys go, SBI will still do well, i dont expect them to drop completely. but your massive zergs will be missed.

#26 Amityy

Amityy

    Asuran Acolyte

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:20 AM

I understand your obvious frustration with bugs and bad sportsmanship but the actions you took last night were unprofessional. All you did was temporarily drag your name through the mud before you left. I still enjoyed the prior 5 weeks of our battles and your coordination is amazing. I'll see you when kaineng hits T1.

#27 CarelessKrow

CarelessKrow

    Pale Tree Seedling

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:36 AM

/salute to War Machine. You guys ran some serious numbers.

Also, keep fighting, SBI. We're not done with you yet. Plenty of action to come.

#28 Beastgate

Beastgate

    Vanguard Scout

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:44 AM

Tier 2 here we come. My body is ready.

#29 Q xoxo

Q xoxo

    Fahrar Cub

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:53 AM

Its sad to hear WM is going to other server. U guys such an icon in sbi...
Whenever i saw WM on the field is like a big storm is gonna hit us! which i always looking forward every night at sos bl

anyway wish WM all the best !
SBI now is facing a loss similar to SoS when PRX left...

#30 Cake is Cake

Cake is Cake

    Asuran Acolyte

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

Tier 1 attracts all kinds of crazies so I don't blame WM for wanting to switch.




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