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When will GW2 get real PvP?


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#1 deluxe

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

I haven't played for about 2 months now, and wondering: will GW2 ever have real PvP?
The capture point sPvP does not count to me as real PvP, and WvW is just casual PvE/PvP garbage.

I am hoping for some actual GvG and something like Tombs, even random arenas was more fun than capture point PvP..

Is there any hope left for GW2 PvP wise?

#2 Lordkrall

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

View Postdeluxe, on 25 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I haven't played for about 2 months now, and wondering: will GW2 ever have real PvP?
The capture point sPvP does not count to me as real PvP, and WvW is just casual PvE/PvP garbage.

I am hoping for some actual GvG and something like Tombs, even random arenas was more fun than capture point PvP..

Is there any hope left for GW2 PvP wise?

There are more things coming. This is been confirmed several times.

#3 deluxe

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 25 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

There are more things coming. This is been confirmed several times.
It will probably be too late though, everyone I knew from GW1 has already abandoned GW2.
GW1 had solid PvP from day one, and it went strong till the end.. roughly 7 years.
GW2 was abandoned by most GW1 PvP players after about a month...
It's painful to see, as I liked the GW1 community and wanted to play GW2 with them.

It feels to me like Izzy said: Screw all the PvP players, even though he was so good to us in GW1..

#4 RandomErrata

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:39 PM

I'm actually pretty sure that no matter what comes next, the OP will not be happy. I suggest finding another game that has exactly what you want.

#5 Lordkrall

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

View Postdeluxe, on 25 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

It will probably be too late though, everyone I knew from GW1 has already abandoned GW2.
GW1 had solid PvP from day one, and it went strong till the end.. roughly 7 years.
GW2 was abandoned by most GW1 PvP players after about a month...
It's painful to see, as I liked the GW1 community and wanted to play GW2 with them.

It feels to me like Izzy said: Screw all the PvP players, even though he was so good to us in GW1..

Ah yes, because the only people that play GW2 was from GW1?

I would say the main group of players in the game never played GW1 (based on these and the official forums).

GW1 had far from "solid PvP from day one". People do tend to ignore all those problems GW1 had the first months though :)

#6 deluxe

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 25 December 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Ah yes, because the only people that play GW2 was from GW1?

I would say the main group of players in the game never played GW1 (based on these and the official forums).

GW1 had far from "solid PvP from day one". People do tend to ignore all those problems GW1 had the first months though :)
If new players like it, thats fine by me... play your crappy sPvP and WvW.
But Anet cannot abandon their hardcore fanbase that stood by them for over 7 years.
Yes PvP wasn't perfect at day one with GW1, but all the basics were there and they've had years of experience to know what PvP players want, so you would think they would use that knowledge for GW2.

#7 Lordkrall

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:49 PM

View Postdeluxe, on 25 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

If new players like it, thats fine by me... play your crappy sPvP and WvW.
But Anet cannot abandon their hardcore fanbase that stood by them for over 7 years.
Yes PvP wasn't perfect at day one with GW1, but all the basics were there and they've had years of experience to know what PvP players want, so you would think they would use that knowledge for GW2.

New players?
I have been with ArenaNet since a few months after release of GW1, and yet I feel no need to shout about "crappy sPvP and WvW".

There were just as many people that complained about GW1 PvP (when looking at %) as there is that complain about it in GW2. Don't try to make it out as a bigger problem than it actually is.

GW2 is not supposed to cater only to the GW1 players, it is supposed to cater to the rest of the players aswell, otherwise they could just aswell have ignored GW2 and simply kept putting out expansions for GW1.

#8 Howl

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:52 PM

I feel exactly the same, I played PvE a long time waiting for PvP to get better and it never happened, yet, so I quitted two months ago, still having hopes for a new PvP mode other than the shitty bunkerfest that is conquest.
So sad as I waited for this game for years and years and so far the PvP was really dissapointing, I really didn't wanted to quit but I just couldn't keep playing the game as it is.

#9 deluxe

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

If for example Battlefield 4 only had TDM to cater to the casuals, that would be pretty close to what Anet did to GW2...
It's a stab in the heart of the fans.

Not because I spent 60e and it turned out to suck balls, but because I really wanted to love GW2 but I just can't!
It has nothing to keep me hooked, when I spent 12000 hours in 7 years on GW1 PvE and PvP.

Edited by deluxe, 26 December 2012 - 12:01 AM.


#10 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

Long time Heroes Ascent player, AB, TA, HB.
And I agree, WvWvW and sPvP in GW2 is utter failure compared to GW1's PvP. For me.

Then again, I don't see how possibly they could improve anything. There's no room for skill customization therefore it creates lack of tactics and boring and repetitive game play which is not good/appealing for someone who wants to play PvP Seriously ,

Edited by Perm Shadow Form, 26 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.


#11 Baamoink

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

If you prefer PvP in GW1 over GW2, then go back to GW1. Simple.

#12 deluxe

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:15 AM

View PostBaamoink, on 26 December 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

If you prefer PvP in GW1 over GW2, then go back to GW1. Simple.
That would be all great, but the community is already torn apart.
GW2 turned out a massive disappointment, so all my friends abandoned it.
No point returning to GW1 unless everyone that was disappointed returns to it.

When people abandon something for something else, it's hard to get players back to it.
This counts for GW1, but also for GW2... I foresee a dark future for GW2.

Edited by deluxe, 26 December 2012 - 12:17 AM.


#13 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:17 AM

View Postdeluxe, on 26 December 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

That would be all great, but the community is already torn apart.
GW2 turned out a massive disappointment, so all my friends abandoned it.
No point returning to GW1 unless everyone that was disappointed returns to it.

When people abandon something for something else, it's hard to get players back to it.
This counts for GW1, but also for GW2...

Well, then find another game.
Thankfully the industry does not cater specifically to you, so you will just have to accept the fact that it will take time and they won't always do things exactly the way you want them to do things.

#14 Al Shamari

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:21 AM

View Postdeluxe, on 25 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

But Anet cannot abandon their hardcore fanbase that stood by them for over 7 years.
Yes, yes they can and they already have for the most part since launch. This is coming from someone who was that "hardcore fan base" for 6 of those 7 years. I've adapted to the new game, and I still enjoy it. But, Guild Wars 2 really ditched almost every major aspect the original Guild Wars had solidified.

The "hardcore fan base" that stuck with them throughout those 7 years, in my estimation, makes up about 20% of their player population in Guild Wars 2. Easier to appease everyone else and more economical, wouldn't you say? So why wouldn't they?

#15 Baamoink

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:22 AM

Then I recommend you look into playing a different game until Anet develop GW2 further. Although the style of PvP will never be the same as it was in GW1, the mechanics are that different that if Anet did try imitating the PvP they had in GW1, it would be nothing but a dull shadow.

There will be new game-mode in future patch releases. When I played GW1 on release, it is nothing like the game it has become years later in terms of mechanics & gameplay. I personally find GW2 to be very enjoyable, but I'm a PvX player, if I find myself getting bored of PvP, I switch over to another area of the game. As for the GW1 PvP die-hard's, hope they release GvG soon or find another game to play :)

#16 RandolfRa

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

View PostAl Shamari, on 26 December 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

The "hardcore fan base" that stuck with them throughout those 7 years, in my estimation, makes up about 20% of their player population in Guild Wars 2. Easier to appease everyone else and more economical, wouldn't you say? So why wouldn't they?
20%... I doubt it's even 5%. It's just a minorty who likes to make a lots of noise here in gw2 guru. And even then, not all of that population cared about gvg during gw1. I certainly did not.
Instead of copying that steril, small scale skirmish setup from gw1, I'd like to see anet adding something that makes the game live up for it's title: mmo.

Quote

If for example Battlefield 4 only had TDM to cater to the casuals, that would be pretty close to what Anet did to GW2...
Battlefield is a casual arcade shooter to begin with..

Edited by RandolfRa, 26 December 2012 - 12:03 PM.


#17 Minu

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

View Postdeluxe, on 25 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

If new players like it, thats fine by me... play your crappy sPvP and WvW.
But Anet cannot abandon their hardcore fanbase that stood by them for over 7 years.
Yes PvP wasn't perfect at day one with GW1, but all the basics were there and they've had years of experience to know what PvP players want, so you would think they would use that knowledge for GW2.

Why not?  If they are heading in a different direction with their "crappy WvW" then surely you could go back to the GW1 with the alleged masses of players who don't like the pvp here?

Let me tell you something, Anet don't give a monkeys chuff for your 7 years of loyalty, if you are not putting your hand in your wallet now, you are of zero importance.

Edited by Minu, 26 December 2012 - 11:59 AM.


#18 redslion

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

There's just one thing that keeps me playing this game.

But it's something I haven't found in any other MMO. And was exactly what I have been looking for for a long time.

I play an engineer and, no matter how hard any engineer tries, there's nothing like an optimal spec. Is a neverending research. A neverending quest for power. And this is what makes this a mmoRPG: every engineer is different from the others, and you won't find 2 similar specs in the whole game. I don't know if other classes are in the same situation, but I surely love it for what concerns the engineer.

If I have it, I can even play by just joining random spvp matches, in maps that are too small for 16 players (my opinion) and turn big battles into zerg fights, but the game will still be awesome.

#19 lmaonade

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

View PostRandolfRa, on 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

20%... I doubt it's even 5%. It's just a minorty who likes to make a lots of noise here in gw2 guru. And even then, not all of that population cared about gvg during gw1. I certainly did not.
Instead of copying that steril, small scale skirmish setup from gw1, I'd like to see anet adding something that makes the game live up for it's title: mmo.

Not copying is fine, but why don't they even have the option? I thought GW2 was supposed to add on to what people loved about GW1, while still pushing itself forward. They scrapped all the central concepts to GW1, sure there are things that needed to be changed, but I don't understand why they released the game without a GvG function, deathmatch style PvP is straightforward and popular, why don't they have it? or hell, why they stripped the guild system down the bare bones in the first place. These aren't guilds, these are "linkshells" from Final Fantasy 11.

And sPvP leaves a lot to be desired, the most important being you can't create your own rooms, whenever my guild and I mess around in sPvP we end up with 6+ other random people who decided to join the room, which isn't what we wanted.

Edited by lmaonade, 27 December 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#20 ayoblame

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:41 PM

It's great when people flame valid points. SPVP and WvW are in pretty bad condition. And I know you'll never get some people to accept the fact but it is what it is. The E-Sport community that ANET teased and lead on to GW2 already came and went. Will they come back when GW2 finally improves upon PVP? It's possible. This part of the community aren't trendy MMO hoppers. They want to compete and if it's good they'll play not to mention they already own it. Anet might be betting on this.

Do I think they will pull it off? I'm really not sure but I'd like to hope so. I was looking forward to more than 1 game mode in spvp, looking forward to "seasons"/arena type action. Not to mention spectater mode and GVG type combat. I still have some faith in Anet. They know what works and they have the experience as far as pvp is concerned to make something better than what currently exists in the game.

Edited by ayoblame, 27 December 2012 - 10:42 PM.


#21 Slight Problem

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

GW1 player here since its release. I was under the impression that I couldnt play GW2 with my current pc, however, i can! So now im looking into "should i make the $60 investment" and ive come across this thread.
GW1 was my favorite game to play, I was a huge fan of pvp though, i thought that was perfect pvp. So am i really (honestly) just looking at cap points? that is sooo wrong if true

#22 Lordkrall

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

For now. They have repeatedly stated that they are adding more modes in the future. And there are some rumors that the January and/or February will bring quite a bit to the sPvP side.
We have confirmation that February will see rather major things for WvW so it is not unlikely that it will also see things for sPvP.

#23 Skyro

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:50 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 31 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

For now. They have repeatedly stated that they are adding more modes in the future. And there are some rumors that the January and/or February will bring quite a bit to the sPvP side.
We have confirmation that February will see rather major things for WvW so it is not unlikely that it will also see things for sPvP.

From what I understand there will be 2 PVP-related patches in Jan and Feb, with one of them being primarily sPvP-related and the other being WvW-related.

#24 Slight Problem

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostSkyro, on 31 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

From what I understand there will be 2 PVP-related patches in Jan and Feb, with one of them being primarily sPvP-related and the other being WvW-related.
thats good enough for me, ill pick up GW2... Although...i have been playing diablo 3 and they promised pvp then proceeded to screw everyone over and it never came out, is that what companies are doing now or do you think this pvp update will actually come?

#25 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostRandolfRa, on 26 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

20%... I doubt it's even 5%. It's just a minorty who likes to make a lots of noise here in gw2 guru. And even then, not all of that population cared about gvg during gw1. I certainly did not.
Instead of copying that steril, small scale skirmish setup from gw1, I'd like to see anet adding something that makes the game live up for it's title: mmo.

You're wrong. GW1 PVP is the epitome of arcade RPG PVP. Small matches of 8v8 allow for individual skill and team dynamics to prevail over the zerg dynamic of large-scale PVP. Hall of Heroes matches allowed for larger numbers of competitors in a single map without compromising the aforementioned ideals. There was plenty of room to maneuver, giving even up to 4 teams the ability to play fast-paced, very rewarding matches against each other in the same match.

There was a feeling of extreme satisfaction claiming the Hall of Heroes for your guild and for your region. Guild vs Guild battles at diverse Guild Halls called for dozens, hundreds of different strategies necessary to control terrain and prevent the breaching of your front gates.

GW2 PVP has promise. I don't subscribe to the idea that the lack of secondary profession limits this game. In GW1, ultimately, optimal builds were found and stuck to, which aligns closely to the optimal builds used in GW2. What's lacking is the map and PVP game type design.

#26 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:38 PM

who knows, it's been almost six months since release, and we've heard nothing about GvG or random arenas.

View PostSlight Problem, on 30 December 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

GW1 player here since its release. I was under the impression that I couldnt play GW2 with my current pc, however, i can! So now im looking into "should i make the $60 investment" and ive come across this thread.
GW1 was my favorite game to play, I was a huge fan of pvp though, i thought that was perfect pvp. So am i really (honestly) just looking at cap points? that is sooo wrong if true

Hardcore GW1 player, checking in. I wouldn't get this game if I were you. It's a huge disappointment and insult to players of GW1. The combat is nowhere near as fun and tactical as GW1. You really are just looking at cap points. And WvWvW is pretty much zerg-->zerg-->zerg, with only two distinctive maps.

#27 UssjTrunks

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:26 AM

Conquest is fine.

The problem is the lack of basic features.

No custom servers
No voice chat
No ladder
No observer mode

These are all features that 99% of video games release with today. It's not like we're asking for the moon. The PvP population is on its last legs and they need to do something about it fast.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 07 January 2013 - 01:29 AM.


#28 Mitch

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostUssjTrunks, on 07 January 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Conquest is fine.

The problem is the lack of basic features.

No custom servers
No voice chat
No ladder
No observer mode

These are all features that 99% of video games release with today. It's not like we're asking for the moon. The PvP population is on its last legs and they need to do something about it fast.

Pretty much this, I was a pretty hardcore GvGer in GW1 (Tombs/HA was never competitive, more casual) and honestly in my opinion the PvP in GW2 is a lot of fun, the combat system is close to perfection, I was very skeptical about dodge rolling, no click to move and downed state but I have to say the gameplay is really really well done,

The only problems I have with the game besides the lack of features a competitive game needs is the small map pool and I would like other game modes than conquest to be explored a bit.

Any serious GvGer realises the problems this format had (VoD and Lord damage tiebreaker mainly), and as fun as it was back in the day, when people learned how to abuse the system what was left was a fairly dull game.

#29 chado2011

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

Meh. "Real pvp" has nothing to do with catering to the poopsockerz, and everything to do with providing great combat and accessibility. GW2 does both, in my opinion.

This is obviously a high budget game. Not sure why people are suprised that anet needed to keep the avg Joe happy first and foremost. Given how quickly they've been rolling out content, I'd be shocked if pvp doesn't get big improvements in the near future.

#30 mofogie

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:39 AM

they REALLY need to bring back deathmatch.  It is the truest form of pvp, no bullshit proxied objectives where some classes may way over excel at others, just kill or be killed.

and GvG would be nice too, being able to have your own guild hall again...




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