59 replies to this topic

[Magi]

Some people may argue that it is largely pointless to speculate about a future tier of gear when it has barely been released, and I would agree. However, it gets exceedingly tiresome to read thread after thread complaining about something that the vast majority of players hasn't put any effort into researching. This thread aims to remedy these misconceptions so we can have some constructive discussion.

I'd also like to apologize if this thread belongs elsewhere; I searched and hadn't found anything even remotely exhaustive pertaining to ascended items.

First of all, the goal of this thread is to provide a relatively sound prediction of the stat increases provided by the (relatively) new ascended tier of items. This is not a discussion of how incredibly game-breaking or difficult/expensive the gear is to acquire, nor is it a place to complain about some perceived "slippery slope." What this is, however, is a math-centric discussion where I wanted to project a reasonable estimation of the stat gains of ascended versus exotic tiers.

The first, and most obvious, problem is determining the power of the ascended tier relative to the others. The wiki provides a nice summary, but the data for the tier we want to examine is missing: http://wiki.guildwar..._rarity#Quality. We can draw two conclusions from this. Either the ascended tier will follow the pattern found between the rare and exotic tiers, providing a 185% power increase, relative to the base tier, or we could find a suitable regression. Obviously, to help choose our assumption, we can look at the already-released ascended items. Namely, the backslot items and the rings.

Rings:
Exotic: 67 + 48 + 48 = 163 + 55 = 218
Ascended: 108 + 68 + 68 = 244

Note that the extra 55 for the exotic piece comes from the stats provided by the jewel. I am also ignoring the agony and the extra stats provided by the upgraded infusions.

% Difference = (244 - 218) / 218 * 100% = 11.927%

Backslot:
Exotic: 22 + 16 + 16 = 54 + 48 = 102
Ascended: 56 + 35 + 35 = 126

Note again that the 48 is from the stats provided by the orb. Once again, the infusion stats are ignored.

% Difference = (126 - 102) / 102 * 100% = 23.529%

According to the wiki, if the 20% relative power increase pattern continues, the ascended tier should be 12.12% more powerful than the exotic tier. Proof:

Spoiler

A = base stat value
B = conversion factor

1.85 * A = 1.65 * A * B
1.85 = 1.65 * B
B = 1.85 / 1.65 ~ 1.1212 --> 12.12%

What I did was take the projected relative power of the ascended tier (1.85, or 185%), and equate it to the exotic tier (1.65, or 165%) multiplied by a conversion factor, B. This means that the ascended tier is 1.1212 times the power of the exotic tier, or a 12.12% increase in power over the exotic tier.

Since the backslots tend to have reduced consistency stat progression-wise than rings (6.25% between rare and exotic, compared to 10.10% between rare and exotic for the rings), I chose 12% as my  overall conversion factor to approximate the ascended tier stats.

Next, I wanted to compare the exotic stats to the ascended stats. However, it is important to understand that you cannot compare the stat increase that the ascended tier provides over the exotic tier. This is because a very large and very significant portion of your stats are inherently provided by your character itself. At level 80, you have 916 base points in the four main attributes, and an additional 1400 that are gained via traits.

Character Based Stat Points = 916 * 4 + 1400 = 5064 stat points

The following are the calculations for the stat points for the gear tiers:

Exotic Tier:

Spoiler

**Note that the difference between 2x 2H and 4x 1H weapon is 2 stat points in favour of the 1H weapons. For added thoroughness, I chose to use 4x 1H for my aggregate stat point values.

**I included the weapon damage, as well, because it does follow the same pattern as the other item stats. I assumed that 1 weapon damage = 1 stat point throughout.

1h: 90 + 64 + 64 = 218 * 4 = 872
Weapon Damage: 1000

Head: 45 + 32 + 32 = 109
Shoulder/Hands/Feet: 34 + 24 + 24 = 82 * 3 = 246
Chest: 101 + 72 + 72 = 245
Legs: 67 + 48 + 48 = 163

Rings: 67 + 48 + 48 + 55 = 218 * 2 = 436
Earrings: 56 + 40 + 40 + 55 = 191 * 2 = 382
Amulet: 90 + 64 + 64 + 55 = 273
Backslot: 22 + 16 + 16 + 48 = 102

TOTAL: 3828

% Stat Contribution: 3828 / (3828 + 5064) * 100% = 43.05%

So, for the exotic tier, your gear provides 43.05% of your overall stats.

Ascended Tier:

Spoiler

** The actual values are used for the Rings and Backslot, while the others are all estimated using the 12% increase approximation.
** GW2 rounds all decimal values down in their calculations, so I'll be doing the same.

1h:  872 * 1.12 = 976.64 ~ 976
Weapon Damage: 1000 * 1.12 = 1120

Head: 109 * 1.12 = 122.08 ~ 122
Shoulder/Hands/Feet:  246 * 1.12 = 275.52 ~ 275
Chest:  245 * 1.12 = 274.4 ~ 274
Legs: 163 * 1.12 = 182.56 ~ 182

Rings:  244 * 2 = 488
Earrings:  382 * 1.12 = 427.84 ~ 427
Amulet: 273 * 1.12 = 305.76 ~ 305
Backslot: 126

TOTAL: 4295

% Stat Contribution: 4295 / (4295 + 5064) * 100% = 45.89%

The ascended gear provides 45.89% of your overall stats.

To easily compare the two, we'll just find the difference.

45.89% - 43.05% = 2.84%

If, instead, the ascended gear turned out to be 20% more powerful than the exotic tier, the difference is 4.34%. If the ascended gear happened to be 40% more powerful than the exotic tier, the difference then becomes 7.70%.

To me, this seems like an awfully small stat increase to be complaining so much about. Furthermore, considering Agony resistance will undoubtedly become more and more widespread, I severely doubt it'll be anywhere near game-breaking. It may gate some content, but it's hardly the end of the world if you have to progress through earlier content to unlock further content. You didn't just start effectively traipsing through Orr at level 10, now, did you?

COMMENTS:

There are a few flaws, namely that I assumed zero stat point contribution via orbs placed in armor. However, since we are extrapolating the ascended gear stats off of their exotic counterparts, the results would be identical had we included the orbs. Furthermore, the rings show that the ascended tier shows an approximate 12% increase over the previous tier, including the jewel stats. Therefore, I believe it is a safe and accurate assumption to ignore the orb contribution.

Additionally, runes and sigils were ignored throughout. This was mostly to create an easier approximation and to form a sort of maximum "stat potential." That is, the effects of sigils and runes are far too diverse and varied to quantify into stat points.

In closing, please comment and correct any mistakes you find, or provide your own numbers/calculations so we can contrast and compare.

[Runkleford]

You've wasted your time. The main complaints about Ascended gear wasn't because people thought that it would be a huge advantage but that it would be a start of a gear treadmill and power creep. Your post here does nothing to contradict what a power creep is by definition. Anyway, tired old dead horse, blah blah blah.

[Magi]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

You've wasted your time. The main complaints about Ascended gear wasn't because people thought that it would be a huge advantage but that it would be a start of a gear treadmill and power creep. Your post here does nothing to contradict what a power creep is by definition. Anyway, tired old dead horse, blah blah blah.

http://en.wikipedia..../Slippery_slope combined with legendaries forming the upper cap of the gear progression, ascended gear being the step between exotic and legendary, means this is yet another broken and irrelevant argument.

[MikhailV87]

Thanks for the maths, I found it useful.

[SevereEpicz]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

You've wasted your time. The main complaints about Ascended gear wasn't because people thought that it would be a huge advantage but that it would be a start of a gear treadmill and power creep. Your post here does nothing to contradict what a power creep is by definition. Anyway, tired old dead horse, blah blah blah.

How does this mean the start of a gear treadmill, I'm pretty sure Anet said they should have had ascened ingame when it launched but they didnt.

[Al Shamari]

SevereEpicz, on 27 December 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

How does this mean the start of a gear treadmill, I'm pretty sure Anet said they should have had ascened ingame when it launched but they didnt.

Just to play devil's advocate here, they have also said since development that the game would not rely on gear tier grinding (i.e. your basic World of Warcraft treadmill) and they've introduced just that. A small introduction, granted, but an introduction of that none-the-less.

So, what's to keep them from in the future, introducing another new tier and simply saying, "We also felt this tier should have been added at launch, we're now correcting our previous mistake."?

[Runkleford]

Magi, on 27 December 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia..../Slippery_slope combined with legendaries forming the upper cap of the gear progression, ascended gear being the step between exotic and legendary, means this is yet another broken and irrelevant argument.

Yes blah blah blah slippery slope. My point was that your thread here is pointless because the concerns about ascendent gear was the fear of gear progression and NOT because people thought that this current tier of ascendent gear was any huge leap in stats. Again, I am NOT arguing about gear progression, I'm just pointing out that the concern is not with how big the stats are in regards to the whole ascendent gear complain but that they even exist.

SevereEpicz, on 27 December 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

How does this mean the start of a gear treadmill, I'm pretty sure Anet said they should have had ascened ingame when it launched but they didnt.

See my above paragraph. Also, ANET has stated that there WILL be more vertical progression in the form of gear and levels but not more tiers.

Anyway, I'm not interested in engaging in another Ascendent gear debate. I just thought it was wrong to have this strawman of a thread go unchallenged.

Edited by Runkleford, 27 December 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[ExplosivePinata]

In WvW one server is kitted out in full ascended armour, the other is not.  Who wins, only time will tell

[Trei]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Yes blah blah blah slippery slope. My point was that your thread here is pointless because the concerns about ascendent gear was the fear of gear progression and NOT because people thought that this current tier of ascendent gear was any huge leap in stats. Again, I am NOT arguing about gear progression, I'm just pointing out that the concern is not with how big the stats are in regards to the whole ascendent gear complain but that they even exist.

I was under the impression that this thread was made specifically to address this fear you mentioned.

ExplosivePinata, on 27 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

In WvW one server is kitted out in full ascended armour, the other is not.  Who wins, only time will tell we will never know because it is conjectural

Fixed

Edited by Trei, 27 December 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Humfly]

SevereEpicz, on 27 December 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

How does this mean the start of a gear treadmill, I'm pretty sure Anet said they should have had ascened ingame when it launched but they didnt.

Which amounts to them saying they should have got it right in the first place. Ascended wasn't planned, the TP has no ascended quality filter for example. It smells more like a hack implemented in a panic than anything thought through or planned. Agony is a dumb mechanic as is an infusion slot replacing the normal upgrade slot. Probably because items with two upgrade slots were never envisaged and so too difficult to implement.

[ExplosivePinata]

Trei if you say so, I can only comment from a FPS PoV, if I headshotted a player and took shields/health to almost dead the same time they headshotted me and they killed me because they had grinded armour, I'd be p*ssed!

Edited by ExplosivePinata, 27 December 2012 - 04:10 AM.

[Trei]

ExplosivePinata, on 27 December 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Trei if you say so, I can only comment from a FPS PoV, if I headshotted a player and took shields/health to almost dead the same time they headshotted me and they killed me because they had grinded armour, I'd be p*ssed!

In such cases, chance itself could have thrown the results either which way, if you and your opponent were this evenly matched.
Many other factors prior to the actual shots lead up to this finality, its not like you were in a wild west gun duel.

Many questions could be asked; why did I fail to gain initiative earlier in the engagement? Why was I not able to shoot faster than him?
Why am I not better than him by a margin big enough to offset even such negligible equipment advantages?

The fact that one would choose first and foremost to blame gear on his loss before asking himself these questions above tells a lot about the player.

Edited by Trei, 27 December 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

I understood this one was a math thread, not a new thread to chit chat about ascended gear and why and if we like it

May i ask the OP to do calculations again with infusions +5 on a stat ( like malign +5 cond dmg) on every piece of the armor? And the math calculation in a 5 manned team doing a dungeon exo vs ascended fullset, or a zergfest on wvw with 30 players with those boosted stats compared to the effectiveness of 30 players with exotic gear?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 27 December 2012 - 05:20 AM.

[Var]

Humfly, on 27 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

Ascended wasn't planned, the TP has no ascended quality filter for example.

This point is utterly pointless; ascended is account bound. Having that as a filter would ammount to having "look for nothing" as a filter. You may want to put the horse before the cart, rather than the otherway around.

Humfly, on 27 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

Agony is a dumb mechanic as is an infusion slot replacing the normal upgrade slot. Probably because items with two upgrade slots were never envisaged and so too difficult to implement.

I diagree to a point, that point being the Jade Maw implementation which I think is stupid. The rest of the implementation of agony gives this game's PvE an exhaustable resource (for once) and forces you to manage your resources if you want go further and further without the gear. It is no different (as in it is the same) as making certain boss moves "kill moves" if not dodged, you can then (a.) dodge said kill moves (and no boss spams said moves faster than you can refresh a dodge unless you're facetanking the Archdiviner's down swing), or (b.) rely on the gear to give you a failure cushion.

They do need to change the Maw, it shouldn''t be a blank application because that just throws out the skill you could have exhibited getting past every other boss with 0 AR.

[Runkleford]

Trei, on 27 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

I was under the impression that this thread was made specifically to address this fear you mentioned.

See, my point that I've been trying to make this whole time in this thread that this thread doesn't address that fear. Like I said before, the fears were that this is the start of power creep/gear progression. So making a thread that basically says "Ascendent gear is only a 2% overall increase" doesn't change anything since power creep is pretty much by definition a gradual increase of power. We all pretty much already knew that this latest tier wasn't a significant jump anyway. Not to mention the math while sound is still based on assumptions yet the OP jumped down my throat for supposed assumptions I've made when I brought up gear progression.

Damn, I posted way more than I wanted to on this subject.

[Var]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

Not to mention the math while sound is still based on assumptions yet the OP jumped down my throat for supposed assumptions I've made when I brought up gear progression.

That's largely because you have posteriori vs. confirming the conseqent arguments.

The math is based on assumptions of what the game currently has exhibited as a formula for how stats are calculated (and is to my knowledge fairly consistent between pre-existing tiers with only minor overall deviations), it could be grossely off the mark but its an attempt as best as one can make to formulate a posteriori argument for a point. You work off of established values, purpose that they would be maintained and seem to be maintained within the gear presented as currently available evidence.

On the other hand, the gear argument (aside from being a slippery slope) is in this case an issue of confirming the consequent (and apriori): Gear treadmills are about adding gear tiers. Here a gear tier has been added, so we must be on a gear treadmill. Or, in the apriori case: We do not need to confirm the results, we know that adding a tier means that more tiers will be added. This is a gear treadmill.

The former is usually acceptable basis for argument, the latter is a fallacy of argument.

That said, we've known since before launch that there wasn't going to (likely) be a static level cap and gear tiers exist to begin with; so the concern about ever increasing armor strength is one of a failing to do the research rather than an abrupt post launch change in ideology. The issue of adding more tiers (from ascended to legendary) is an issue of unknowns and is what falls into the fallacy case mentioned above.

[Magi]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

See, my point that I've been trying to make this whole time in this thread that this thread doesn't address that fear. Like I said before, the fears were that this is the start of power creep/gear progression. So making a thread that basically says "Ascendent gear is only a 2% overall increase" doesn't change anything since power creep is pretty much by definition a gradual increase of power. We all pretty much already knew that this latest tier wasn't a significant jump anyway. Not to mention the math while sound is still based on assumptions yet the OP jumped down my throat for supposed assumptions I've made when I brought up gear progression.

Damn, I posted way more than I wanted to on this subject.

No, a lot of people were screeching that it was a 20% stat increase and their Exotic gear would become invalidated due to the emergence of the Ascended tier. What I addressed was that exact asinine argument. I also assumed only one major thing. That being a 12% increase over the Exotic tier. Furthermore, as I illustrated earlier, the ascended rings exhibit an 11.9% increase over the exotic tier, which would reinforce my assumption. The progression exhibited by the backslot is a highly irregular progression with a very limited sample to draw from, so it's safe to ignore it. Math always involves many simplifying assumptions. It's how you justify them that is important.

As to your power creep argument, that ties directly into the slippery slope fallacy. How do you know it's evidence of power creep if all the data currently says that the Legendary tier will cap the gear progression, and the Ascended tier will lie in-between? Simply, you cannot. Therefore, you cannot draw such a conclusion until there is sufficient evidence.

Edit: looks like Var beat me to it!

Edited by Magi, 27 December 2012 - 06:08 AM.

[LIVESTRONGG]

ExplosivePinata, on 27 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

In WvW one server is kitted out in full ascended armour, the other is not.  Who wins, only time will tell

The one that's more organized and have better commanders.

[Arewn]

Al Shamari, on 27 December 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Just to play devil's advocate here, they have also said since development that the game would not rely on gear tier grinding (i.e. your basic World of Warcraft treadmill) and they've introduced just that. A small introduction, granted, but an introduction of that none-the-less.

So, what's to keep them from in the future, introducing another new tier and simply saying, "We also felt this tier should have been added at launch, we're now correcting our previous mistake."?

Fortunately, Arena Net has commented on this saying it's not their intention to continuously release gear tiers (i.e. your basic World of Warcraft treadmill), and that Ascended gear is really something they should have thought to include at launch, which in the grand scheme of things does make sense.

Of course you're right in your remark while playing devils advocate, you could still say "yea but this creates a precedence, and in the future they may again say such a line as they introduce another tier". Unfortunately, a situation like this really leaves you with 3 options, the path where you're flammed for being a fanboi and 'trusting' Anet, the path where you're flammed for being a h4tur for thinking otherwise, or the path of silence where you stay the f*** out of it.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Still waiting an answer of my post.

[Trei]

Runkleford, on 27 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

See, my point that I've been trying to make this whole time in this thread that this thread doesn't address that fear. Like I said before, the fears were that this is the start of power creep/gear progression. So making a thread that basically says "Ascendent gear is only a 2% overall increase" doesn't change anything since power creep is pretty much by definition a gradual increase of power. We all pretty much already knew that this latest tier wasn't a significant jump anyway. Not to mention the math while sound is still based on assumptions yet the OP jumped down my throat for supposed assumptions I've made when I brought up gear progression.

Damn, I posted way more than I wanted to on this subject.

So basically what you mean is that this power creep effect could slowly accumulate to the point where a few new tiers later, we would be forced to upgrade our gear when the stats increase to values we can no longer skip or ignore?
As in the difference between the current exotics power and that new tier?

I doubt this scenario would materialise before the next expansion hits, which also assumes that the level cap would be raised as well.

By then, we would be looking forward to new content that would bring new levels of gear as we play them.

Meanwhile, the lvl 80 asc gear that I skipped  stays skipped.
The new level 90 exotics should still be comparatively just as accessible as the tier was back in vanilla gw2.
The lvl 90 asc gear would still be skipped by those who don't see the need for infusions.

[Runkleford]

Var, on 27 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

That's largely because you have posteriori vs. confirming the conseqent arguments.

The math is based on assumptions of what the game currently has exhibited as a formula for how stats are calculated (and is to my knowledge fairly consistent between pre-existing tiers with only minor overall deviations), it could be grossely off the mark but its an attempt as best as one can make to formulate a posteriori argument for a point. You work off of established values, purpose that they would be maintained and seem to be maintained within the gear presented as currently available evidence.

On the other hand, the gear argument (aside from being a slippery slope) is in this case an issue of confirming the consequent (and apriori): Gear treadmills are about adding gear tiers. Here a gear tier has been added, so we must be on a gear treadmill. Or, in the apriori case: We do not need to confirm the results, we know that adding a tier means that more tiers will be added. This is a gear treadmill.

The former is usually acceptable basis for argument, the latter is a fallacy of argument.

That said, we've known since before launch that there wasn't going to (likely) be a static level cap and gear tiers exist to begin with; so the concern about ever increasing armor strength is one of a failing to do the research rather than an abrupt post launch change in ideology. The issue of adding more tiers (from ascended to legendary) is an issue of unknowns and is what falls into the fallacy case mentioned above.

That's nice and all but while I do have concerns about gear progression that was not what I was arguing about in this thread (which is why I purposely said "supposed" in my post  that you quote). I was pointing out this thread stating what was already obvious about the insignificant stat increase does not put to rest any worries whether there will be gear progression simply because minor statistical increases are part of what defines gear progression.

Magi, on 27 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

No, a lot of people were screeching that it was a 20% stat increase and their Exotic gear would become invalidated due to the emergence of the Ascended tier. What I addressed was that exact asinine argument. I also assumed only one major thing. That being a 12% increase over the Exotic tier. Furthermore, as I illustrated earlier, the ascended rings exhibit an 11.9% increase over the exotic tier, which would reinforce my assumption. The progression exhibited by the backslot is a highly irregular progression with a very limited sample to draw from, so it's safe to ignore it. Math always involves many simplifying assumptions. It's how you justify them that is important.

As to your power creep argument, that ties directly into the slippery slope fallacy. How do you know it's evidence of power creep if all the data currently says that the Legendary tier will cap the gear progression, and the Ascended tier will lie in-between? Simply, you cannot. Therefore, you cannot draw such a conclusion until there is sufficient evidence.

Edit: looks like Var beat me to it!

Read above.

Trei, on 27 December 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

So basically what you mean is that this power creep effect could slowly accumulate to the point where a few new tiers later, we would be forced to upgrade our gear when the stats increase to values we can no longer skip or ignore?
As in the difference between the current exotics power and that new tier?

I doubt this scenario would materialise before the next expansion hits, which also assumes that the level cap would be raised as well.

By then, we would be looking forward to new content that would bring new levels of gear as we play them.

Meanwhile, the lvl 80 asc gear that I skipped  stays skipped.
The new level 90 exotics should still be comparatively just as accessible as the tier was back in vanilla gw2.
The lvl 90 asc gear would still be skipped by those who don't see the need for infusions.

No no. I'm not arguing for or against gear progression in this thread because I simply do not care about it anymore. I'm simply pointing out that this thread which points out the very very small increase in stats on Ascendent gear is merely consistent to the definition of what power creep is. I am NOT arguing that it's evidence for power creep but that it disputes nothing other than those claiming that there was indeed a huge statistical advantage to Ascendent gear.

Anyway, I regret even bring up the "G" word now. I just found it irritating that this thread presented the stats as if though it was the ONLY thing that people took issue with.

Edited by Runkleford, 27 December 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Small, tiny, semi invisible, you all can chit chat as much you want. There is 0.0000001% better on a particular area (fractal in this case)? Everyone is on it. Keep chit chatting and doing math as much you want, reality doesn't change, nor community main target

I'm still waiting the calculations requested.

[Trei]

But the stats are the only significant issue.
You are talking about a power creep.

If the stats had remained on exotics level, would there be talks of a power creep?

[Magi]

Lucas Ashrock, on 27 December 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

I understood this one was a math thread, not a new thread to chit chat about ascended gear and why and if we like it

May i ask the OP to do calculations again with infusions +5 on a stat ( like malign +5 cond dmg) on every piece of the armor? And the math calculation in a 5 manned team doing a dungeon exo vs ascended fullset, or a zergfest on wvw with 30 players with those boosted stats compared to the effectiveness of 30 players with exotic gear?

The effect of the infusions is so minuscule that it can be effectively ignored. If you add in the infusions (5 points per infusion, 16 infusions total, for 80 stat points), they make up 0.767% of the total stat points. The resulting difference is 3.312%, compared to the original of 2.853%.

As for your other points, the percentages wouldn't change, and here's why. If you wanted to compare the differences with a large group, you would need to find the total stat points of the entire group, meaning you would multiply the stat points by a scalar, which we'll call "C." This scalar obviously represents the number of group members. However, you'll also need to multiply the stat points derived from gear by this scalar. Therefore, you are essentially multiplying the percentage I calculated in the OP by C/C, or 1. Here's your proof, using the data values found in the OP:


% Stat Contribution (Ascended Tier):

(4295 * C) / ((4295 + 5064) * C) * 100% = (4295 / (4295 + 5064))*(C/C)*100% = (4295 / (4295 + 5064))*1*100% = 45.89%

The result, of course, would remain unchanged for the exotic tier. Therefore, your party as a whole is only 2.853 percentage points more effective stat-wise than it would be sans ascended gear.

Edited by Magi, 27 December 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[The Shadow]

Trei, on 27 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

But the stats are the only significant issue.
You are talking about a power creep.

If the stats had remained on exotics level, would there be talks of a power creep?

Yes. There's legendary armor that just hasn't been released yet.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Interesting, thanks.

[Ritualist]

The bigger question though is how much of a difference does it make compared to lvl 80 RARE MF gear? Because based on how the game currently works, I'd say that this is the game's default gear.

[Daesu]

A small percentage of a big number is still a pretty big number, notwithstanding your assumptions.  That is the problem with using percentages for such calculations to justify your point.

Edited by Daesu, 27 December 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Yep and you know which button they push? The per char stats. Alone, even full ascended, you're not a god between humans. Until you reach that point they will keep telling us "read the math, see? just a bit". They truly don't get even 0.0000000001% more is what everyone will chase 24/7 until maxed, the BiS attitude every mmo clone has, and a BiS party is pro, others are just a bunch of noobs and blah blah. And the "LFM ascended  fullset only" no more or less than the "LFM daily 30/40 20 AR min to join".
I love math threads.
Now imagine if ring of fire needs 20+AR just for gather lol I'm so curious of the feb update you have no idea hihi

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 27 December 2012 - 09:30 AM.