Daesu, on 27 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:
A small percentage of a big number is still a pretty big number, notwithstanding your assumptions. That is the problem with using percentages for such calculations to justify your point.
The beauty of a percentage is that it shows the power of "something" relative to another "something." In this case, I'm using stat points. When I say that the difference between the Stat Point contribution of Exotic vs Ascended gear is 2.853%, I'm saying just that. Ascended gear contributes a net 2.853% more stat points to your overall stat distribution. Not that Ascended gear possesses 2.853% more stat points, nor that Ascended gear is 2.853% more effective than Exotic gear. In truth, Ascended gear provides ~12% more stat points than Exotic gear. It is also important to realize that you cannot strictly say that you are 12% more powerful with Ascended, rather than Exotic, gear because of the role your base stats play in the overall scheme of things. When I use percentages to compare the situations, that sort of "small percentage of a large number is a large-ish number" argument is invalid because of this relative-power quality. You'll not start one-shotting enemies, nor will you probably notice a significant increase in "killing potential" because your power increase is very small relative
to the opponent.
I'll just reiterate that you cannot say that Ascended gear will cause entire zergs to roll over their opponents, introducing an inherent imbalance. Why? First of all, the increased points are spread across three to four stats. This means that not all of them are contributed towards Power, or Precision, or Crit Damage, meaning the enemy's damage-related effectiveness cannot be said to be X% higher. Second, What's to say that the opposer doesn't have a contradictory stat spread? That is, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that the opposer possesses a Toughness- or Vitality- heavy stat spread, effectively reducing the effectiveness of the aggressor's increased "power." The problem here is that there is no base line you can use to compare the two situations, making any conjecture ineffective and wildly speculative.
There is a very specific reason why I used the calculations and statistics I did.
duncanmix, on 27 December 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:
You are doing this from view of mathematics, but reality is a bit different. I have feeling that you don't even play this game that much to understand difference of those stats increase. I will try to put it simple, and this is how you should do your tests in future:
2 rings = 52 stat increase
6 armor pieces = xx stat increase
back + 2 jewel + amulet = xx stat increase
total set = XX stat increase
Now since its easiest to see difference with power stat, rush to the heart of the mist with warrior pick an axe, and slowly add power through traits while hitting golems. You would be surprised how much difference those "little" % gives.
I did break down the stat increases in the Spoiler tags, if you'd have read them a bit more closely. All it takes is less than a couple of seconds of simple addition to find out the aggregate increases.
The power business is relatively inconsequential due to a couple different reasons. Firstly, damage is derived from more stats than just power, namely precision, crit damage, and condition damage. Furthermore, other stats combat these increases by providing defensive bonuses. That means that your warrior with +X% more power will never do consistent enough damage across all players to warrant such a test. Furthermore, if you're talking about scaling with skills, there are also a couple flaws. Each class's individual skills would scale differently than another class's, therefore making such a test pointless. This is why I mainly stuck to solely tabulating the NET stat increases, not including the effect these stats have. This post is in the Tyrian Assembly, and therefore is generalized to apply to all builds and classes.
Just to add, you're looking at the damage as too simple of a stat. The gear as a whole wouldn't increase your power by the 2.853%, it would increase the total number of stat points by that number of percentage points. Those extra stat points would then be spread amongst three to four stats (in the case of regular gear). If anything, this reinforces my point, rather than takes away from it.
Featherman, on 27 December 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:
The base 916 stats, especially the ones in vitatilty, are misleading because 1) they don't necessarily represent a character's power with no gear stats, 2) Damage and overally performance in this game compounds conditionally, i.e. condition on crit, critical multipliers, boon stacking, etc, and 3) Sets such as celestial do not follow the same stat distribution.
In other words, it's fairly useless to quantify the difference by pure percentages unless you're going to go all the way and do it for each possible build.
The point of this thread wasn't to specifically show the impact of the stat increases on each and every single build with every single iteration imaginable. That's exceedingly unreasonable and generally useless. What it is, however, is a simple projection of what a full set of Ascended gear offers stat-wise. That is why I decomposed everything to general stat points; it illustrates better the potential of the armor.
I also purposely stayed away from Celestial gear because there's a very small pool of data to draw from if you want to ensure an accurate projection. Plus, in no way is this gear even remotely common. For the majority of the people the majority of the time, they'll be using the typical, focused 3-4 stat spread gear. The only exception to this is the common usage of Runes of Divinity, however I addressed why I ignored runes/sigils in the OP.
Edited by Magi, 27 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.