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#31 Arquenya

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

Strange, but such things never happen to me .. while I pug 75% of my dungeons! :mellow:

Just a bad luck day I guess ^_^

#32 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

View Postescada_assassin, on 28 December 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Yesterday in an AC run you wouldn't believe - we had another D/D ele. Now seriously people, please make me understand what is it that makes a D/D ele so perfect and appropriate for dungeon runs. I know ice bows are really useful on gravelings burrows, but I think that's pretty much the best use for those. He was using ice bow for almost anything in his path. But still, that wasn't and isn't my problem. My problem at this particular moment is why are D/D eles so perfect for dungeons. Do they have same HP as a warrior? Same buffs? Boons? More toughness than anything else? Does 150k damage in one hit? What is it? Cause I'd change from staff to D/D, but I don't know what makes D/D so powerful that it's being used by all eles I've had in dungeon runs so far.

Ice bow radius is very small, there's almost a guarantee that you will do heaps of damage with it, because projectiles hit more often.

#33 AKGeo

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostNalano, on 27 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Just because he can doesn't necessarily mean he wants to. Force a guy out of his preferred playstyle and he'll resent it. Hence.

'Course, I'm not saying he's right, as his complaints were all attempts to force you out of yours, but there ya go.



There are some folks who aren't just useless, but actively deadweight and worse than an empty slot. Sometimes I PuG just so I have people to complain about.

It was a long time before I had a thief in my group and suddenly I had three in a row. All three of them were alright, I guess, in that we still finished the instances in what I consider a decent amount of time, we didn't wipe, and they didn't complain, but holy crap they were downed a lot. A thief in zerker gear would have 3k health less than my ranger but the same armor, and I don't often find myself with only 3k health and I don't have nearly the amount of dodges, evades, etc as the thief does. It's uncanny just how much those thieves ate dirt. I was beginning to think the downed state gave them a damage bonus or something considering how often they put themselves in situations where I wasn't about to help 'em out.

Anyway, dungeons for me can be summed up succinctly:

Leading cause of death: Rezzing other people

Rangers also don't have their best weapon set putting them right up next to the enemies. Thieves who run shortbow or pistol/pistol tend to get grief from other players because they're not doing enough damage, or not stacking properly. And they have to learn somehow how to dodge, evade and avoid damage. Perhaps you were unlucky enough to have thieves who haven't done the content yet.

#34 Auenwing

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

View Postescada_assassin, on 27 December 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

* Past few days I've been running a lot of dungeons and in one AC run, one team member asked me why do I use a staff (on my elementalist ofc). I told him with some notes of sarcasm "Yeah, cause using a staff as an elementalist is preposterous!", which he repplied to "Yeah, it is." (I should mention that either his build was utter crap or he just copy/pasted it from somewhere and he didn't know how to play it, since he died a lot or was downed a lot). Because obviously everyone but me knows that D/D is so OP that staves and scepters are completely useless. So this lead me to this question : Should ANet remove staves as available weapons for elementalists? Are staves (and scepters actually) really completely useless that they cannot be used in under any circumstance? And if so, why did ANet came up with this bogus thing called staves and couldn't limit themselves at just D/D for elementalists and that's it? And the most important question : since when do I have to play a certain weapon because everyone knows that's OP?

* Once again this happened in an AC run. Except for one warrior, we were all either medium or light armor professions. We get to the path that leads to Kholer, the one with gravelings and we all climb on the cliffs and hit them from there, while the warrior was the only one meleeing them. Once of a sudden he starts complaining that he's the only one fighting them and why are we all up there and that "me tank, you guys don't heal", ports to the starting WP and exits. We were al shocked. I mean wtf is this? Really? Me tank and you guys don't heal? This shit happened to anyone before? What's that all about? Am I missing something? Are there tanks and healers around? If everyone (or mostly everyone) knows about some trick that could make a fight easier for us, should we not use it because some guy is frustrated and we should manage his feelings?

* FotM. Oh, boy. Was in a level 11 run with some guys I didn't know. We get to the dredges where we need to blow up the door and fight the boss and some guy tags me. I change the tag and tag him. He tags me again and jumps at me with his thief and tells me that if he would be near me he would literally kill me. Without asking what's the catch, I just move along. After we finish the entire run, which went pretty well I might add, he says that he'd go for level 12 if they wouldn't have such a crappy elementalist in their team and says something not nice to my address. I print screen it, report him for the nice language (and I didn't say anything bad to him if that's what you think) and then pm him telling about the report. Which he repplies to ^%#Q@#&%W^*$. Censored. Use your imagination. Now once again - is there a trick around that gate where tagging a team member makes it easier? Or any other trick?

Do things like these happen to everyone or just me?

P.S. I don't know if I posted this in the right section, so please mods move it where it should belong. Thank you.

Our guild left 2 other MMO's because there were an abundance of players with attitudes similar (and far worse). This kind of behavior was an exeception to the norm over 10 years ago.

Unfortunately, that has changed and there have been long threads over multiple game forums regarding "entitled / self-focused / using-other-players-as-bots" kind of behavior in PuGs for  over 5 years.

It's not you. :)




As far as ele with d/d vs staff  vs scepter:

0.00000000000000000001 cents worth here:

Our guild runs with 4 through 5-mans. Would love to run with D/D and I know some of the best "theorycrafters" that run explorables do.

We have a lot of respect for players who wield them with skill and can adapt to different group dynamics and play them situationally.

We've found 2 things regarding ele's in this game that apply to us: (1) scepter ele in earth is great for single target dmg with the right gear/player.  (2) staff ele in earth does it better aoe style - again - in the hands of the right player. You can find data to back this up from players that have tested both and posted numeric results.

HOWEVER:

3) The most important thing we've always adhered to over a dozen years of gaming as a small swat team doing raiding with 1/4 the number of players:

player skill including spec / weapon choice that optimizes the player's own innate way of thinking is the "best fit" for best results.

It's not the weapon, or the player, or the skill... it's the synergy between them.


View Postescada_assassin, on 30 December 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I will always play whatever weapon I love the most, but that until a certain point, where weapon efficiency versus player's skill must be taken into consideration for some kind of synergy with the other team members. I will try D/D on a dungeon run, but I'm afraid that I might suck at it, as I've seen so many other eles suck at it. I have nothing against D/D, I was just wondering why would anyone run D/D if they don't know how to. Simply presenting myself the argument that D/D is OP isn't enough for a build to be efficient. It needs from the player to be smart about it and know how & when to dodge, how to play it, when to play it, when to cast a certain spell or to time perfectly the switch between attunements, pretty much like any other weapon. I just feel that all the D/D eles I've seen and been with so far in dungeons sucked at using D/D, but still using D/D, because they're so OP. It's just the mentality I actually despise, not the weapons per se.

P.S. No more talk about D/D, as that's not the main reason I started this thread. :)


emphasis mine: 100% agree. Remember those two MMO's I mentioned above?  That mentality is part of the reason my guild did not find the games either attractive or sustainable (for us).  After years of having to be creative with specs / weapons / group comp, we don't believe in playing a game that demands cookie cutter specs/gear. It's too limiting. ;)



Stick with the weapon of your choice, and good luck finding better groups in the future.


.

Edited by Auenwing, 31 December 2012 - 03:40 AM.


#35 Beale

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

View Postescada_assassin, on 27 December 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

* Once again this happened in an AC run. Except for one warrior, we were all either medium or light armor professions. We get to the path that leads to Kholer, the one with gravelings and we all climb on the cliffs and hit them from there, while the warrior was the only one meleeing them. Once of a sudden he starts complaining that he's the only one fighting them and why are we all up there and that "me tank, you guys don't heal", ports to the starting WP and exits. We were al shocked. I mean wtf is this? Really? Me tank and you guys don't heal? This shit happened to anyone before? What's that all about? Am I missing something? Are there tanks and healers around? If everyone (or mostly everyone) knows about some trick that could make a fight easier for us, should we not use it because some guy is frustrated and we should manage his feelings?


This is the role expectations of a WoW tank, and the abusive behavior a certain WoW raid developer encouraged in his players.  Said developer has a lot to answer for on the damage which was done to the culture of other games as players moved on from WoW.  It was best for all that said player left.

#36 Nalano

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 31 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Rangers also don't have their best weapon set putting them right up next to the enemies. Thieves who run shortbow or pistol/pistol tend to get grief from other players because they're not doing enough damage, or not stacking properly. And they have to learn somehow how to dodge, evade and avoid damage. Perhaps you were unlucky enough to have thieves who haven't done the content yet.

You don't do Fractal dailies without having done the content yet.

All you're really saying is "thieves are squishy but insist on being melee regardless," which puts thieves squarely in the category rogues/assassins/etc have always been: Dead.

Usually in an MMO where there's a whole bunch of classes/playstyles, the balance eventually gets to the point where all classes end up doing comparable damage with one another in their preferred playstyle. This means that if thieves aren't there already, they're inevitably going to be kept in parity with rangers and warriors.

Except, y'know, without the range or the survivability.

Edited by Nalano, 31 December 2012 - 06:55 AM.


#37 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

I have a good one from CM.  Me and a guildmate joined up with some other guild of three clowns who turned out, once we got into the dungeon, to have pretty much zero DPS between the three of them.  Not only that, they weren't even trying to tank, they'd just stand back until I (the DPS) had to charge in, take all the aggro, and then they're run in and poke mobs for two digits worth of damage per hit and complain about me going down.  Fortunately I always go full DPS so between me and my guildmate we were pretty able to carry the entire group anyway.  Eventually I get sick of them being useless and tell them to either change their builds or find some way to be useful, because I'm tired of downing every fight because they expect me to solo every single mob in CM.  They respond by kicking me out of the group before the last boss.

But this is the best part.  This is before kicking the instance owner from the group killed the instance altogether, so they were in their own instance and I was in mine.  Apparently back then if this happened, the instance owner could still add new party members to the instance, but they couldn't.  Now they're super mad cause my guildmate is just watching them try to 3-man Frost and being unable to do take even a visible sliver off his health bar before he wipes them.  Eventually they gave up and ragequit.  I got my other guildmates together to kill the boss and everyone got free tokens, and I got a funny story.

Everyone wins.  Except them, of course.

#38 Tregarde

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

My personal feelings on the matter - you should know your profession well, and know what you are doing. I don't care what weapon you use, they all have good abilities. As long as you are contributing, and not going down from being stupid, then all is good.

#39 Danael

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:49 PM

Well, as a D/D Ele myself I can certainly confirm that with us you have a 50-50 chance of getting a really bad player. Once, I've been in COE with a guildmate and another D/D ele. The other players on the group actually asked me whether stupidy like that was normal for a D/D ele. He was running strait into rooms full of adds and expected us to buff him - not only did he pull all the wolves/ice monsters in the very first room and died after about a second but then he decided it was our fault.

On the other hand once in COF there was a staff ele on my group and that didn't work out either. She just constantly pulled the aggro of adds and couldn't deal with it alone.

More often though I have had Eles who were great at helping the group. Sometimes you just have bad luck.

Personally, I like the daggers because of the playstyle. I love being constantly in motion, I've had problems with more stationary classes like warriors. In the end, if somebody likes their class, then they're normally good with it.

#40 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

I get stuck-up c*nts on a regular basis. most of the players that run dungeons have 0 patience which ruins the whole damn experience for me. Everytime I watch a cinematic, i'm swarmed by comments like, "are u AFK?," "WTF ARE YOU DOING? HURRY UP." At that point, if I had any self-respect for myself I would leave, but sadly I actually want to see how the dungeon stories play out, so i'm forced to go with a pack of *es.

That's not all, most of my dungeon experiences = me and my teammates being bossed around. Not that I have a problem with that, but when he starts screaming at us as if he's a dictator, * that sh*t. Nobody elected him to be leader. I'd take henchman/heroes, over real people any day. :angry:

Honestly, I really don't care how my team plays their characters. It's their character, their experience, play however you want because either way, we're all essentially wasting time playing the same video game. We might as well enjoy whatever is happening.

#41 Danael

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:24 PM

View PostI, on 31 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

That's not all, most of my dungeon experiences = me and my teammates being bossed around. Not that I have a problem with that, but when he starts screaming at us as if he's a dictator, * that sh*t. Nobody elected him to be leader. I'd take henchman/heroes, over real people any day.

I've been on the other side of that one often enough. One member confessed he/she doesn't know anything about the dungeon, wanted to watch the cinematics too. I have no problems with those scenes but running into a boss room without even waiting to see if there's a strategy or something about that boss really becomes a problem, fast.

Now, I don't want to imply that you did that but do you remember if the guy bossing you around wanted to tell you about stratey/plans for bosses/rooms?

#42 Millimidget

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

I was in TA one time, on vine boss near the entrance. Our group is struggling, and at some I interject into whatever nonsense they're discussing about our struggles the simple statement, "less QQ moar pew pew."

Apparently that was too much for one of our fearless casuals. With a prompt declaration decrying myself and another group member as being elitists, he/she/it hastily left.

To make a long story short, the four of us remaining finished out the rest of U/U path; not hard, but we were 4, and captain casual left to go jangle. In the end, we all felt superior to that guy. I should thank him for making us a little more elite.

#43 Gadian

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

Oh how I can relate to this thread!

I ran HotW for the armor set and usually went all PuG for the runs. About 75% through I got together with 3 warriors from the same guild and a random ranger (I'm a mesmer). At that point I was kinda worried since past experience suggested many warriors without a guardian is not easy run but they seemed all right so I kept my mouth shut and we got started. The first corridor was first sign of trouble since the warriors were downed in a couple of seconds. As I kept ressing them and we muddled throug, I was thinking that it's cool, the corridor is always a bit tricky. But oh my when we get to Aldus, it was sheer mayhem. Warriors kept downing and though I ownd the Illusion of life like there's no tomorrow and handressed them from downed they went down like timber and I got aggro of every single mob. I'm tough/vit/cond 50/25/25 build so I don't die that often but against 10ish mobs I went eventually too and so did the ranger. And then I realized the 3 warriors had whined about us not helping and left us to die without a single word after only 1 try. We decided 2 of us was not gonna cut it as pissed off as we were so we ported outside and there were the 3 warriors looking for more people and "not some noobs with light/medium armor". Fortunately most of the runs were ok and had a couple of awesome PUGs as well but this still made me very wary of warriors. After all, I've done some epic runs with only light and medium chars.

In addition I was kinda put off by the requirements of some elitists on gw2lfg.com when I was looking for CoF party. "No noobs or retards", "only full heavy exo armors" "only several quick runs, noobs don't bother" etc. kinda made me sick. I mean a decent player can still do just fine in his/hers first run with a bit of guidance.

I also enjoy cinematics so I think it's sad ppl are in so much hurry that there's no time to enjoy the content. But fortunately ppl doing stories are more into that so I can satisfy my cinematic tendencies freely that way.

As to weapons, I don't have much experience with ele's but I believe the same applies also to mesmers. What ever suits your preferences is the best weapon for you! I tried greatsword only on a whim at lvl 70+ because I had read some mesmer guide that claimed it was useless. However, I fell in love with it almost immediately because of the range and decent aoe ability so I've never let it go since. To each his own, I guess.

#44 bambooxfox

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

I love stories!

One time, I ran AC explorable with two full signet warriors who wielded nothing but their rifles the entire run. TWO of them. I was on my tanky guardian, so I had aggro pretty much all the time. There was no reason for them to be scared of getting eaten by gravelings. And I mean, if the lvl 50 necro in our party wasn't afraid to get up close and personal, why were they? (They were both level 80 and had done AC before.)

On a side note, if you play a warrior and drop that fury banner while you're in my group, I will <3 you forever.

#45 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostI, on 31 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

I get stuck-up c*nts on a regular basis. most of the players that run dungeons have 0 patience which ruins the whole damn experience for me. Everytime I watch a cinematic, i'm swarmed by comments like, "are u AFK?," "WTF ARE YOU DOING? HURRY UP." At that point, if I had any self-respect for myself I would leave, but sadly I actually want to see how the dungeon stories play out, so i'm forced to go with a pack of *es.

That's not all, most of my dungeon experiences = me and my teammates being bossed around. Not that I have a problem with that, but when he starts screaming at us as if he's a dictator, * that sh*t. Nobody elected him to be leader. I'd take henchman/heroes, over real people any day. :angry:

Honestly, I really don't care how my team plays their characters. It's their character, their experience, play however you want because either way, we're all essentially wasting time playing the same video game. We might as well enjoy whatever is happening.
Agree. And you have no idea how much i would love to see heroes ingame, to just get rid of this trash kind of player left ingame, every great elite player of my friendlist is offline from weeks, they all left for better/ asked a refund. And my ignore list grows. Luckly sometimes i meet nice players, like my last lv20 daily run, 2 days ago, quite nice peeps :) One in a million happens

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 06:01 PM.


#46 Scorpion

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

Besides not having a balanced out stats/traits. Some melee classes tend to focus on simply melee, even in situations where they would mostly likely die at close range. Knowing when to get up close and attack or from a distance can make a lot of difference. Also dodging is extremely important, some people just stand there.

Edited by Scorpion, 13 January 2013 - 07:54 PM.


#47 AKGeo

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

View PostNalano, on 31 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:



All you're really saying is "thieves are squishy but insist on being melee regardless," which puts thieves squarely in the category rogues/assassins/etc have always been: Dead.



If that's what you're seeing, you need some reading glasses, friend. I'm a thief and prefer to stay back with my shortbow until we're down to one boss that I'm familiar with so I can avoid attacks when up close. But on occasion I get players who give me grief about it saying "you're a thief, you're supposed to be meleeing them, noob. GTFO with that shortbow you're not doing any damage".

I got that once from another thief, who apparently lives in CoE. Sorry bro, I'm not going to shadowstep into a mob of cone AoE melee just to be downed in a half second. I'll stay back here and drop cluster bombs and bleed them out until we come to a single enemy without PBAoE.

#48 Bloggi

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:26 AM

Old thread, but a hilarious read. There's always going to be some poor sports around. We do a lot of our dungeon runs in a 4-person team now (except in some paths where we really need 5 because of the mechanics of the way things work) because there's four of us that know and work well with each other. The bottomline is this: if you are ever so blessed to run into good people (and there are a fair number around, surprisingly), get them on your friend's list ASAP and hopefully get them to do the same. Ask them if they are regulars to a particular dungeon and then hook up with them in the future for those runs.

I think it's also not good to rely or expect to be 'looked after' by other players. Each of us should be firstly, looking after ourselves (individual performance contributes to group performance), and then secondly, looking out for the rest of the group. Choice of gear is interesting because it usually doesn't indicate the performance of that individual. Ever been in a group of folks wielding expensive and legendary gear that couldn't play on an average level even if their life depended on it? Yep, I think we've all seen a few of those.

Also, it is the skill of the individual that makes a person 'leet', not the choice of their gear. Looking at previous posts for example, we can see the debate of d/d versus the use of a staff for elementalists. I use a staff myself, but have the pleasure of knowing a d/d elementalist that plays exceedingly well. It really boils down to the player's mastery of his/ her build.

#49 LavaSquid

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostScorpion, on 13 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Besides not having a balanced out stats/traits. Some melee classes tend to focus on simply melee, even in situations where they would mostly likely die at close range. Knowing when to get up close and attack or from a distance can make a lot of difference. Also dodging is extremely important, some people just stand there.

lol I love to spec my melee warrior to draw the aggro (only melee, high toughness, high armor and with shield) just to show off my dodge skill! It is so fun to kite when you are low health, fight to survive!

#50 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostHermitLolxe, on 29 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't invite weak people to dungeons and FoTM because I expect people to know that they need to be helpful and not think they can do anything with a crappy armor and weapons.

How do you know if people are weak beforehand?

Also, if people are all geared up because they want to do well in dungeons, wouldn't that imply they were doing bad before they geared up, and aren't really that good players? Of course I'd still prefer people who are geared up, but only if they did so to maximize their effect, not go from bad to good. Big difference.

As for a story? Well, I've had a few bad pugs regarding storymode, but otherwise I tend to be pretty lucky. Some players aren't very good at the game, but mostly I find them to be curious and willing to learn. I've only once had an asshole who just charged in, and honestly, the rest of us just found him hillarious more than anything (he didn't agree that he was though XD)




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