21 replies to this topic

[bkd1049]

I'm currently in the process of leveling up a thief alt for the purpose of roaming behind enemy lines, picking off zerg stragglers, taking camps with small groups, etc. With this in mind, what is going to be some viable set ups to direct myself towards?

Direct Damage or Condition Build? (If you don't mind divulging your build, could you post it)

What weapon sets would you suggest for this roll to go along with said build?

What stat prioritization would you choose for armor, weapons, amulets? (ex. Zerker, Carrion, Knights)

Sigils and Runes to go on said gear?

[Fade_Guin]

I run a S/D + SB build.

http://gw2skills.net.../hoC;TMALIGjMJA

Direct Damage. Mix of zerker and Valkyrie gear. Sigils are on template and I run 4 ruby orbs and 2 beryl orbs instead of runes.

edit: It may be on the glassy side, but many people don't know exactly how to deal with a S/D thief. Most thieves encountered are backstab thieves, death blossom thieves or P/D.

Edited by Fade_Guin, 27 December 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[jthamind]

http://gw2skills.net...BxJA;TMArPGUMLA

i run that when roaming with a full berserker set and divinity runes. you drop like a rock if you're getting hit, but assuming you get the jump on your opponent, they're down in 1-2 seconds.

[jthamind]

Fade_Guin, on 27 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

I run a S/D + SB build.

http://gw2skills.net.../hoC;TMALIGjMJA

Direct Damage. Mix of zerker and Valkyrie gear. Sigils are on template and I run 4 ruby orbs and 2 beryl orbs instead of runes.

edit: It may be on the glassy side, but many people don't know exactly how to deal with a S/D thief. Most thieves encountered are backstab thieves, death blossom thieves or P/D.

i've always wanted to try S/D but never have. i'm a huge sword fan when it comes to the thief. i heard Flanking Strike doesn't always work like it should, though. is that true?

[Fade_Guin]

jthamind, on 27 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

i've always wanted to try S/D but never have. i'm a huge sword fan when it comes to the thief. i heard Flanking Strike doesn't always work like it should, though. is that true?

I don't use flanking strike

[Ojikes]

You use s/d from the attack that you get on 1 in stealth alot.

[ShezuTsukai]

Flanking strike works if your character facing and targeting is correct.

Mistakes are not facing target when starting skill and having something else cued up as your next target. Both of these result in your thief flying off in some weird direction.

On the other hand if you are fighting more than one opponent this gives you a quick target switch with distance and damage while evading.

[mofogie]

for wvw, it's about damage damage damage.   no letting fallen enemies get ressed by their guys, you gotta kill in 2-3 seconds, AND finish them.

run nearly all crit % dmg,  eat butternut squash or better, and  use daggers.  your backstab should be frequently critting for over 7k maybe even 10k.  or really extreme, maybe even 13k!   30 in power, 30 in crit for sure.

the daggers is for assasination, but the real moneymaker is the shortbow.  when you get good at cluster bombing, you'll be hitting whole groups for 5k +  each hit.  then when one guy goes down, his buddies will try to revive him, which means even more downed enemis. shortbow + sigil of flame = massive aoe damage.

also shortbow counters nearly all other thief weapons.  start with shortbow out  in general, then switch if you want to melee.

Edited by mofogie, 02 January 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[funkybudda]

Fade_Guin, on 27 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

I run a S/D + SB build.

http://gw2skills.net.../hoC;TMALIGjMJA

Direct Damage. Mix of zerker and Valkyrie gear. Sigils are on template and I run 4 ruby orbs and 2 beryl orbs instead of runes.

edit: It may be on the glassy side, but many people don't know exactly how to deal with a S/D thief. Most thieves encountered are backstab thieves, death blossom thieves or P/D.

This might be a bit off topic, but I am also using S/D and I find myself in trouble against D/D roamer thief alot. Usually when they get the jump, I am dead. Even if I get the jump, I still think chance are in their favor. ANy tips?

[Fade_Guin]

I have an easier time against D/D ele's with P/D and a condition build. My S/D WvW build is something of a skirmishing build, not terribly great in a 1 vs. 1. I've had middling success vs/ eles with P/D as it is. If they're really good, I just can't seem to get them down. Close but it's usually a stalemate for me.

My S/D build is an in-and-out sort. I stack three forms of haste (sigil, trait and utility), infiltrator's strike in, pop haste, CnD, tactical strike, and then auto-attack. After that it depends on what the target does. It's not as nasty as say, the backstab build, but it has some nice control and the auto attack is aoe, really nice for hitting someone trying to rez another.

Anything bunker, and it's retreat for the most part. My spec is more for tearing other cannons apart. (heartseeker spammers have a lot of issues with the constant porting around with infiltrator's strike and shadow return unless they're good)

I'd prefer to run a P/D build, but running a high crit/power setup is really good for SB in keep standoffs.

[mofogie]

sword/dagger or sword/pistol is generally pretty good against other thieves, as well as shortbow.  if there's an enemy theif you need to counter, bring these weapons out.  

as you can see, each has their own niche.   i've played alot of different builds for wvw, and sometimes you need to retrain based on the situation.  but 90% of the time, i am a backstabber/ shortbower, because that's what rakes in tons and tons of kills. And kiling is not only good for your money, but it's good for your team too.   I'm not a ganker, (the kind of thief that waits a long time for a ripe opportunity), i'm nonstop killing.   when cd's are down, i'm shortbowing.   when they're up, someone's gonna die to daggers almost gauranteed.   I highly recommend this kind of playstyle to maximize your efficiency

[Thorfinnr]

mofogie, on 03 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

sword/dagger or sword/pistol is generally pretty good against other thieves, as well as shortbow.  if there's an enemy theif you need to counter, bring these weapons out.  

as you can see, each has their own niche.   i've played alot of different builds for wvw, and sometimes you need to retrain based on the situation.  but 90% of the time, i am a backstabber/ shortbower, because that's what rakes in tons and tons of kills. And kiling is not only good for your money, but it's good for your team too.   I'm not a ganker, (the kind of thief that waits a long time for a ripe opportunity), i'm nonstop killing.   when cd's are down, i'm shortbowing.   when they're up, someone's gonna die to daggers almost gauranteed.   I highly recommend this kind of playstyle to maximize your efficiency

Mind thorwing up a build comfig or two? I'm still levelling my thief in PvE...but would love to get an idea on what to plan for once I get him ready to go into W v W...so I know what to try to start keeping an eye out for as far as runes/gems/sigs/etc go.

Really like the way you look at the shortbow, I have used it and P/P as my range set-up based on need/situation...and really enjoy them both.

Thanks for the tips!

Edited by Thorfinnr, 09 January 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Thorfinnr]

Here's something I came up with just playing with the editor for a possible roaming build.

If this is similar to someone else's build, my apologies...not claiming anything...just looking for some feedback.

I'm just starting to think in WvW terms, so all constructive input is very much appreciated.

http://gw2skills.net...QyikDJJSLLGBMjA

[Scarnah]

I found D/D total burst to be way too fragile.  Sure, you look for a target and pick them off, and maybe even live to tell about it, but there's no sustained pressure on an enemy group.  Not to mention, if your attack doesn't go as planned, you lose a lot of your effectiveness.

http://www.guildhead...07kNb70V7ofD70m

That's my WvW build.  S/D with 10/30/30/0/0.  I still have a very effective burst that can be served in two varieties: CnD + Steal or Sword #2 + CnD, both followed by a daze and a powerful auto attack cycle.  What makes this build so deadly, however, is what happens after you hit that first target (if it's upleveled or glass cannon, it will be downed for sure).  Based on what I'm up against, I can either shadowstep away or start stealthing all over the place.  Either way, I'm not going to be killed.

The base thief abilities (SB and run speed) give you enough mobility to chase down or get away from any situation you'll encounter while roaming, so I decided to take points out of acrobatics and devote 30 to shadow arts.  Few thieves seem to take advantage of the power of being unpredictable, and having 2 shadowsteps and plenty of stealth gives you the tools to really piss off groups of 5+ all by yourself.  That's what roaming is all about, right?

It'd be easier to explain if I recorded some of my playing, but the general idea is to continually move from target to target and never get tunnel visioned on one guy.  In a 1v3 situation, you stand a much better chance of winning if you put all 3 guys on the defensive quickly, and 3 guys at 30% health are easier to fight than 2 guys at 100% health with a dead buddy.  This strategy scales wonderfully as well, meaning in a 10v20 fight, I can still wreak havoc in the enemy lines, hurting but not killing as many as I can and stealth stomping those that do get downed.

As a thief, you want to make everyone forget you're there.  Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

[Drtrider]

mofogie, on 02 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

for wvw, it's about damage damage damage.   no letting fallen enemies get ressed by their guys, you gotta kill in 2-3 seconds, AND finish them.

This is true. However running as a full glass cannon in WvW is just stupid in my opinion. Yea, when all your stuff is off cool down you can spike hard. However, in the grand scheme of things you're useless. Not to mention made of glass and tissue paper. I laugh at 1-hit wonder thieves who try to kill my 20k health thief.

Also keep in mind, running a full glass cannon is more often then not just going to get you killed. Most likely just from AOE's.

My 2 scents, balance your self. Find a weapon set you like, play with it. Then look at how others run it. Get yourself educated. (I only say this because I wish some one had told me this when I was making a thief)
Then start playing with each build/idea yourself. See what works for you and your play style, and what doesn't.

I'm running a P/D & D/D condition build. It's more common now, however I've been running it since open beta 3. Regardless, I've kinda crafted my own little build on how I handle combat. Rather then the run-of-the mill build so to speak.

For example, on my D/D weapon swap I have 100% crit change on weapon swap, and 3stacks of might on weapon swap. Which means, once they're down to 1/4 health, I swap, heart-seeker once, and that's normally about a 3-4k crit. (With a condition build mind you) Which is normally enough to quickly spike down any one trying to heal at the last second. Match that with around 13k bleed damage in about 10 seconds, and it's surprisingly deadly. All the while, I'm sitting in stealth healing and watching some one bleed out.

Jeez, this post got long quick.
TL;DR Version:
1. Find a weapon set you like, see how people use it and taylor it to your play-style.
2. 90% of players you will face in WvW are going to try and run. Be able to shut them down in that last half of the fight. (S/D should have no issues with this)
3. Balance yourself between damage and survivability. Your 20-30k crits (or added up crits) do you absolutely no good if you're dead. Note however, your survivability could come from stealth/utilities/ect... not just stats.
4. These are players you're going against not NPC's. There is nothing like watching another player start to panic and start randomly using skills in combat. Keep on the pressure, and use stealth to it's fullest. Confusion in your best tool, and in my opinion, the most powerful. The ability to literally be two places at once, and your opponent not knowing where you're going to show up next is just priceless.
5. Try and always stay behind your target. Not only for what ever traited bonuses you have, but to also keep your foe constantly having to turn around to attack you.

Edited by Drtrider, 09 January 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[Drtrider]

funkybudda, on 02 January 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

This might be a bit off topic, but I am also using S/D and I find myself in trouble against D/D roamer thief alot. Usually when they get the jump, I am dead. Even if I get the jump, I still think chance are in their favor. ANy tips?

My suggestion for D/D thieves is get them do to do inactive dump if possible. When you see a heart seeker coming, dodge it. If they get you stunned or stoned, shadow-step away. Short-bow is another great option. Keeping them at range will leave them spamming that 2 button to get closer.

(However this could just be my kiting mind set. With my P/D build. I'll just dodge-roll and drop caltrops and continuously kite people through them, stacking on the bleeds the entire time.)

Thieves are classes of deception, kite the mele, and confuse the ranged.

[FoxBat]

Drtrider, on 09 January 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

For example, on my D/D weapon swap I have 100% crit change on weapon swap, and 3stacks of might on weapon swap.

Always inspires confidence to hear people recommending a combo that literally doesn't work.

[Drtrider]

FoxBat, on 09 January 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Always inspires confidence to hear people recommending a combo that literally doesn't work.

Mind explaining? I'm curious on to what issue you have with the combo? Seems to work just fine for me. Been using it for about a month now.

[Scarnah]

Drtrider, on 09 January 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

3. Balance yourself between damage and survivability. Your 20-30k crits (or added up crits) do you absolutely no good if you're dead. Note however, your survivability could come from stealth/utilities/ect... not just stats.
4. These are players you're going against not NPC's. There is nothing like watching another player start to panic and start randomly using skills in combat. Keep on the pressure, and use stealth to it's fullest. Confusion in your best tool, and in my opinion, the most powerful. The ability to literally be two places at once, and your opponent not knowing where you're going to show up next is just priceless.

Can't stress these two points enough.  This is what keeps me coming back to this game every night.  It's not just "will my skill rotation and stats beat yours" but more about outsmarting your opponent to get the upper hand.  I still cackle maniacally to myself every time I manage to trick a group of 5 players into chasing nothing or aoe'ing a spot I left 30 seconds ago.  Double back on a shadowstep once and you'll be hooked.

Edited by Scarnah, 09 January 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Drtrider]

Scarnah, on 09 January 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Can't stress these two points enough.  This is what keeps me coming back to this game every night.  It's not just "will my skill rotation and stats beat yours" but more about outsmarting your opponent to get the upper hand.  I still cackle maniacally to myself every time I manage to trick a group of 5 players into chasing nothing or aoe'ing a spot I left 30 seconds ago.  Double back on a shadowstep once and you'll be hooked.

My personal favorite is running zergs of cliffs. Run towards a large ledge, stealth at the last second. Run right back towards the zerg. And watching the lemmings drop off the edge.

[Picpoc]

Drtrider, on 09 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Mind explaining? I'm curious on to what issue you have with the combo? Seems to work just fine for me. Been using it for about a month now.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil - See the Notes section about Sigil cooldowns

All Sigil's share the same cooldown. Two on-swap Sigils cannot proc at the same time. Same with a crit and on-swap Sigil. So you are not getting both 100% crit chance and 3 stacks of might at the same exact time. You could stagger them between two different weapon sets but that is not what was implied.

This is why so many guides for all classes suggest 1 proc/swap based sigil and 1 non-proc sigil (5% dmg, on kill stacks, etc...)

[mofogie]

there's some naysayers to full glass cannon.  i would agree with them if you do not have the latency/no lag/ reaction time.   but if you do, you should be raking in the kills.  I can't stress that enough, my average kill count before dying is something absurdly high, like 30 or more.  and no, you're not useless when your cd's are down, you're in the back shooting cluster bomb for 5k+ on crowds.  More kills are done through SB than DD, not to mention the sheer amount of damage.  My SB literally forces whole groups back, or kills them while they're trying to res.  I have ganked a group of 5 by myself trying to clear ogres, and they all died to trick shot and cluster bomb.  Didnt need to finish.

The key is situational awareness. you have to have it.  You need to be watching all who can potentially gank you, yes even in a large crowd of 20+ and keep your distance.   I run on 14.5k hp and 1150 toughness most of the time.  As soon as i can't move, i SS out.  That's almost always faster than a backstab can happen.  You have to be that fast.  

The skill also comes when you're caught with cd's down.  you have to be able to stall till they're back up.   I've fought many bunker eles, who thought i was easy picking, then the CD's are refreshed, and bam they're dead.  

Finally there's a metagame to DD.  When you can kill anyone in any sized crowd in 3 secs or less, and behind terrain and objects, it creates terror in players.  They start to go farther and farther back, becoming more timid and less effective.   And when you assasinate a commander, the fellow allies often panic.  they rush to res him no matter how dangerous it is.  

http://gw2skills.net...KyWkrIZRLLGUMLA
this is the buidl i am on most of the time for wvw, and quite often even for spvp.  Damage everything.  
why Rune of Lyssa?  For WvW, your damage should be plenty enough.  In gear and food, my Crit damage bonus is Max, (100%).  so i won't benefit from orbs or Divinity, which are populuar amongst thieves.  Lyssa serves two purposes:  It removes conditions, and gives Aegis, which are great for survivability.  And more improtantly it gives stability. Stability is HIGHLY important for finishing foes in WvW.  When a guy sees his buddy down, he's going to try a knockback, fear, or pull.  Lyssa will help ensure you get the finish.  It only lasts 5 seconds, but you should be killing faster than 5.  

On traits:  any buidl without mug is lacking imo.  Mug is AMAZING.  even a bunker build, can mug for 3k+ on a crit, and it's damage off your actions, so really it adds that much damage onto whatever you're currently attacking.  It's silly not to take it.

why panic strike?  Sometimes players will have invulnerabilities, mistform, endure pain, either done voluntarily or proccing on a trait.  If you can't kill them because of thse, panic strike will immobilize through the invuln, and once the invuln is over, you can finish them with HS spam.  You won't have Lyssa to finish them after that wait, so you'll have to CnD or risk it.  Without panic strike, killing invuln foes will be impossible in a zerg.

Remember that's my motto: anytime, anywhere, any size of force.  You can kill your target and be out in one piece.  1,5, 10, 50, it doesn't matter.   Nothing should stop a good DD thief.

for spvp on this build, i change Haste for Shadow REfuge.   Haste is no good for spvp imo.  There's too many targets respawning.

I have done a ton of builds for spvp, and i always come back to this one, because i have found, as you get more skilled as a player, your intuition and experience IS your survivability.  You should know when and where to fight, and thus don't need alot of toughness. My SPvP toughness is base 916.  I rarely die, and average 15+ kills a game, many which are hard earned on my own.

and on the 10 in shadow arts:  this trait gives you a huge edge over other thieves.  When you clash and both are CnDing each other. if you get it first, you will make him miss.  That's a huge deal, can mean the end of the fight right there.  Also you get extra toughness from shadow arts.

however it could be advisable to put the 10 in 5% extra damage when flanking, (10 at the bottom tree).  I feel however, i already have enough damage.   the stats from this tree also suck for direct damage.