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End of year GOTY Awards...agree or disagree....


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#1 Roybe

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:28 PM

GW2 apparently is garnering a lot of attention in the media (mainstream as well as gaming specific), but not for what I would have expected from the amount of discussion I see on these and other forums.

Basically, with all the problems of grind, Gems for gold, missing promises (I'm looking at you guesting), etc. this game is actually not only good, or very good, but excellent in the eyes of the less jaded.

So, we can agree this is good for the game itself (well at least the coffers of NCSoft and Anet), but does it bode well for the genre of MMO's in general. Since this game has so many problems and is disliked so much by so many for the things it does and doesn't do, can there really be a future for MMO's?

#2 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:34 PM

That's what a vocal minority accomplishes.

People think the game is very bad, but in reality it's just a couple of people whining about a small part of the game.
Result is everybody forgets the good parts of the game.

But people that can remain objective and keep a distance from forums like this can give their opinion, and apparently some of these people think GW2 is GOTY. :)

#3 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

GW2 is at its best when it's not an MMO.

#4 Arquenya

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

View PostRoybe, on 27 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Basically, with all the problems of grind, Gems for gold, missing promises (I'm looking at you guesting), etc. this game is actually not only good, or very good, but excellent in the eyes of the less jaded.

So, we can agree this is good for the game itself (well at least the coffers of NCSoft and Anet), but does it bode well for the genre of MMO's in general. Since this game has so many problems and is disliked so much by so many for the things it does and doesn't do, can there really be a future for MMO's?
Yes. It's a typical "in the land of the blind, One Eyed is king" phenomenon.
MMO game developers just refuse to make a half decent game.

Edited by Arquenya, 27 December 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#5 Shayne Hawke

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

With how much in the game there is to improve, I'd be very hesitant to call it GOTY.

#6 iLag

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

That's what a vocal minority accomplishes.

People think the game is very bad, but in reality it's just a couple of people whining about a small part of the game.
Result is everybody forgets the good parts of the game.

But people that can remain objective and keep a distance from forums like this can give their opinion, and apparently some of these people think GW2 is GOTY. :)
This, the only reasonable complaints I've seen are about the RNG. Of course it's disappointing but I've never played a game that lived to the hype set by trailers and companies. Thats just advertisement.

#7 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

View PostShayne Hawke, on 27 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

With how much in the game there is to improve, I'd be very hesitant to call it GOTY.

Ofcourse there is (much) room for improvement.
But does that take away that it's the first AAA MMO that doesn't forces me to go raid raid raid, or forces me to do PvE before I can start PvP.
Or it has some pretty nice WvW, even though it has its problems.
It's the first MMO that actually encourages people to play together in the open world.
It rewards exploration
....

There are things to deal with, to improve yes.
But the good things are also a massive improvement to the genre.

View PostiLag, on 27 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

This, the only reasonable complaints I've seen are about the RNG. Of course it's disappointing but I've never played a game that lived to the hype set by trailers and companies. Thats just advertisement.

Yup, just compare WoW: Pandaria trailer to gameplay, LOL..

Oh well I understand the complaints about PvP being a bit lackluster, the WvW issues, zones being dead, no prestiguous items to get (legendaries are just grind grind grind, and dungeon stuff is way to eas to get),...

But I still think it is an awesome game.

#8 Xenigma

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

I don't think it's been getting that much GotY discussion, although it seems to do admirably in smaller categories.  IMO, the game isn't perfect (like every other game ever), but it does a lot for a relatively stale MMO market and a lot of the broader aspects (art direction, core gameplay design, etc) are done very, very well.  It gets plenty of nitpicking on forums like this, sure, but I certainly believe it's a great title worthy of discussion on end-of-year lists.

#9 this a pointed

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

Those people only read about the game. That means they read all the things that the developers promised and think those things are in the game. But if they would play....

#10 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Yup, just compare WoW: Pandaria trailer to gameplay, LOL..


Tell me about it, the combat in the pandaria trailer made the game look like it had awesome combat, but then you play the game and it's nowhere close to that level of awesomeness (at least not the PVE, where you typically stand in one place hitting your buttons to watch some dull animations). GW2 is the first MMO I've played where PVE actually feels epic, like a console game. This is partly due to the fact that you're encouraged to move around while fighting enemies via dodging their attacks, as enemies your level can actually pose some form of threat to you, as well as the awesome animations for attacks, making the combat feel intense.

I already knew that WoW's combat was pretty dull when I watched the MOP trailer, I still think it's pretty *ing glaring when your trailer is 10 times more epic than your actual game. There's a reason blizzard never shows WoW gameplay during commercials and trailers.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 27 December 2012 - 08:50 PM.


#11 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

View Postthis a pointed, on 27 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Those people only read about the game. That means they read all the things that the developers promised and think those things are in the game. But if they would play....

Yeah big gaming magazines just create lists like this by reading about games..
They don't actually play games, just like those reviews, those are also just written by people who read about the game.

/sarcasm

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 27 December 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Tell me about it, the combat in the pandaria trailer made the game look like it had awesome combat, but then you play the game and it's nowhere close to that level of awesomeness (at least not the PVE, where you typically stand in one place hitting your buttons to watch some dull animations). GW2 is the first MMO I've played where PVE actually feels epic, like a console game. This is partly due to the fact that you're encouraged to move around while fighting enemies via dodging their attacks, as enemies your level can actually pose some form of threat to you, as well as the awesome animations for attacks, making the combat feel intense.

I feel you, combat was always so freaking dull in MMO's, now atleast it got a bit better with GW2, although it could've been better if they used targetting like Tera did.
But Tera on the other hand is just same boring combat but just with a reticle.

GW2 combat/skills with Tera reticle would be awesome combat.

Edited by Gilles VI, 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM.


#12 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

Dislike on forums does not mean dislike with players. People who are upset and want to complain head to forums. People happy with the game don't, unless they are 'forum people'. Every game I play or have played, I usually have to answer questions for players that are spelled out on the forums. And when I ask if they read the forums, they say "No. What forums?"

The game is great. You can say you don't like it, or it's not what you expected, or it's not your things... but get real people. The game itself if damn near perfect by MMO standards.

And no I will not be responding to any trolling or flaming for saying this. You have a right to your opinion, but saying GW2 is NOT well done is just unfair.

#13 this a pointed

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

GW2 combat/skills with Tera reticle would be awesome combat.

There is a mod for GW2 that gives you the tera targeting and stuff. Its name is combat mode or something.

#14 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:18 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I feel you, combat was always so freaking dull in MMO's, now atleast it got a bit better with GW2, although it could've been better if they used targetting like Tera did.
But Tera on the other hand is just same boring combat but just with a reticle.

GW2 combat/skills with Tera reticle would be awesome combat.

Ya, in Rift or WoW, you can't attack (other than aoe attacks, which are never your standard attacks) unless you target an enemy, and even then, you have to be in range, it makes combat feel.......less realistic, I think. Like, in GW2, you can swing your weapon even with no targets around, and enemies will be hit if they're in range of your swings. It's hard to explain, but this makes combat feel more fun, I think it may be that I feel more like I'm actually swinging a weapon at something, because it's not realistic at all for me to be unable to swing with no target in range. It makes it feel more realistic, which is more fun. I think the more realistic combat feels, the more I feel in control of my characters actions, the more entertaining it is. I think it makes me feel more immersed into the game, more like I'm the character on the screen. Not to the extent of some games like Skyrim, where you literally must aim every attack you make since you're character never auto targets, but still more so than WoW or Rift.

As for Tera, never played it, but judging by videos I've watched of it's targeting system, it looks like you have to aim an icon on the screen to hit a target. If that's true then I wish GW2 had that, having to aim your ranged shots would make playing using ranged weapons feel more interesting.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 27 December 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#15 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

View Postthis a pointed, on 27 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

There is a mod for GW2 that gives you the tera targeting and stuff. Its name is combat mode or something.

Yup but it lacks some functionalities for me personally.
I'm waiting for the maker to extend it, or Anet to officially accept it and adapt it themself (a man can dream) :P

#16 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

View Postthis a pointed, on 27 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

There is a mod for GW2 that gives you the tera targeting and stuff. Its name is combat mode or something.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post234824


"Hi,
Indeed, as Cheiron said, this programm can be assimilated as a third party one, and therefore is not allowed on our game.
Please note that utilisation of third party software can lead to a definitive suspension of your account.
Now that the answer has been given, I will close this thread."

:(

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 27 December 2012 - 09:27 PM.


#17 iLag

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 27 December 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post234824


"Hi,
Indeed, as Cheiron said, this programm can be assimilated as a third party one, and therefore is not allowed on our game.
Please note that utilisation of third party software can lead to a definitive suspension of your account.
Now that the answer has been given, I will close this thread."

:(
They confirmed a few months ago that you can use this particular mod

#18 Arewn

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

Forums are generally the place people come to complain. Visiting guru, it's easy to get the impression that GW2 sucks because of all the negativity, that's because the majority of the posts consist of the minority's complaints.
By industry standards though, it's a different story. Hearing something like "THERE'S SO MANY BUGS " on the forums turns into, "the game is very polished[compared to other games of the genre]" by the media and industry as a whole.

There are certainly problems with GW2, but that doesn't make it a bad game. Compared to much of what you'll find playing else where, the game is amazing. Points that people complain about here are at times actually the strong points of the game compared to what other games have to offer.

#19 Runkleford

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

MMO of the year yes. GOTY, I'd say no. But hey it's all personal opinion.

#20 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

View PostiLag, on 27 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

They confirmed a few months ago that you can use this particular mod

Really? Where can I download it?

#21 DuskWolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:07 PM

@OP

This isn't the vibe I get from the tumblr crowd. Over there, there's only a small holdout of GW2 fans, most people are fed up with and sick of it.

What media outlets have been singing GW2's praises lately as the game of the year?

--- New Reply ---

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 27 December 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

As for Tera, never played it, but judging by videos I've watched of it's targeting system, it looks like you have to aim an icon on the screen to hit a target. If that's true then I wish GW2 had that, having to aim your ranged shots would make playing using ranged weapons feel more interesting.
Yep. All attacks are done via a reticle, you have to aim them. Even melee attacks can be aimed (and need to be aimed in most fights). There's also dodging and blocking, which is far, far less limited than GW2. The end result feels like a rhythm game where you have to aim. It's got a nice, action-combat feel to it, and it's so, so much better than ye olde tab targeting in every possible way.

Edited by DuskWolf, 27 December 2012 - 11:09 PM.


#22 Dasryn

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

did GW2 win a GotY award or soemthing?  becuase if they didnt win it, then what is this thread about?

#23 Gileas898

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Yeah big gaming magazines just create lists like this by reading about games..
They don't actually play games, just like those reviews, those are also just written by people who read about the game.

/sarcasm

It's true. They play the game. Reaching level 80 on your first character takes about 80 hours. Add another 20 or so for map completion etc. My first 100 hours in GW2 was arguably the best time I have ever spent in a game. Heck, experiencing all the dungeons and getting dungeon master was hell of a lot of fun too. Lets say the first 200 hours.

Now, the problem with people who write reviews is that they will never have 200 hours, or even 100 hours for that matter to base their review on. This is why you should be very very careful when reading reviews about MMO's. In a single player game you might spend 10-30 hours, and then let the game go. But in an MMO people tend to spend much much more time. I myself had 5000 hours played in GW1. It is an immense investment in terms of money, time and emotion. People who are attracted to MMO's love this emotional investment, and most players expect that the community and game will last for a long long time, as was the case with me and GW1.

That is the thing with MMO's that reviews will never answer. Will this game still be good after I play it for 100 hours? What about 500 hours? 1000? 5000? When you are done rolling your alts, when you have achieved DM and map completion, will GW2 still be fun?

#24 Blackdeathteal

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostiLag, on 27 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

This, the only reasonable complaints I've seen are about the RNG. Of course it's disappointing but I've never played a game that lived to the hype set by trailers and companies. Thats just advertisement.
Rng yes  the cash shop is a big one in regardless to chance of drops from holliday chests although Wintersday hasnt been as bad
My personal gripe is he lack of pvp balance and its bad Thief, Mesmer or boon specced ele have been on top way to long

#25 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostBlackdeathteal, on 27 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Rng yes  the cash shop is a big one in regardless to chance of drops from holliday chests although Wintersday hasnt been as bad
My personal gripe is he lack of pvp balance and its bad Thief, Mesmer or boon specced ele have been on top way to long

Well you say thief, mesmer, and ele are OP.
Others say bunker guardian and glass cannon Warrior are OP.
Then again other people say the point defense/condition engi and condition necro are very powerfull.

When you combine all that, there are supposed to be 7/8 professions OP, which would lead to a fairly good balance.

#26 r3fl3kT0r

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

Wait a sec ppl, calm down and take a breath.
GW 2 start august right ? Thats 4-5 months right ?

You all play MMO's and we all know that: MMO's? It's like a kind who need to grow up and understand the world and improve his skills.
You cannot expect from 4 months MMO to realize all promises to you - fans.
Remember that TIME, Need TIME.

GW2 it's not a perfect MMO but give you a different perspective about a genre.
Let's wait and see what direction will take GW2 - good or bad.

And sorry for my terrible english, it's not my favorite language.

#27 Arquenya

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostGileas898, on 27 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

.. you should be very very careful when reading reviews about MMO's. In a single player game you might spend 10-30 hours, and then let the game go. But in an MMO people tend to spend much much more time. I myself had 5000 hours played in GW1. It is an immense investment in terms of money, time and emotion. People who are attracted to MMO's love this emotional investment, and most players expect that the community and game will last for a long long time, as was the case with me and GW1.
Indeed! When you look at game reviews, there's loads of high ratings for so many games, you'd expect no less than a MMO walhalla if you may believe half of what they say and rate.

#28 XgreatArtist

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostProtoss, on 27 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

GW2 is at its best when it's not an MMO.

I would imagine if GW2 was a single player game, it might be much better. But offline or no offline, it is still the same.
GW2 isnt perfect but it is the best MMO i played, even though it has lots of nasty bits.

#29 FoxBat

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:48 AM

OP needs to visit the WoW forums for some perspective.

View PostGileas898, on 27 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

That is the thing with MMO's that reviews will never answer. Will this game still be good after I play it for 100 hours? What about 500 hours? 1000? 5000? When you are done rolling your alts, when you have achieved DM and map completion, will GW2 still be fun?

GOTY is never going to be a proven 5k hour title. I worry for the people that can play that much in a single year. Also for those who can't afford box retail on a game that lasts shorter than that.

#30 Bryant Again

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:57 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 28 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

OP needs to visit the WoW forums for some perspective.

I went to the WoW forums for awhile back when I get into it again. It can easily give you the impression that WoW is the worst game in the world.

There was plenty of good thoughts in there as well, but it just goes to show how 'little' the minority matters...

Edited by Bryant Again, 28 December 2012 - 03:58 AM.





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