Arquenya, on 08 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:
Well what’s exactly the difference between events happening on some timer or them happening by triggering them by clicking an NPC? Does it really make it so much more immersive - just because of that? As I asked you before: do other games have no defend, escort quests and extra enemies that spawn when you trigger a quest or event? Or structures that can be destroyed?
Realizing that whatever you do has no impact on the game world whatsoever, how is that shortsighted? Cities as Jerusalem had religious and probably strategic values. Outposts in GW2 (and for that matter : a lot of other things as being an order member or your storyline) don’t matter at all. If for example guild halls would be in villages and access to vendors and stuff and WPs would be determined by your ability to fend off attackers, then yes it would be a lot more of a “realistic, living and breathing world”. But not as it is now. Sure, the first few events are nice and all but it’s the same meaningless stuff throughout the whole game.
There is a huge difference in my opinion. On one level, events triggering because players trigger them makes the game revolve around the player and thats well unrealistic. Essentially in a generic MMO the best way to save a town is by doing nothing. If I never talk to NPC and accept the quest the invasion will just never happen. Well even if you accept the quest it will never happen anyway. On the other hand having evens trigger automatically makes those event happens because of "motivations" I mean Obviously the bandits attack a town not because they really want to pillage it but it feels that way. Makes the world feel a lot more alive. And yes most other MMOs dont have NPCs that spawn with quests. Most other MMOs defend quests arent really defend quest they're kill quest disguised as defend quests. You dont defend anyone, there is no need the attacking npcs will never attack, you're just told to kill these NPCs to deter their attack which again even though the npc giving you the quest will thankyou and tell you that thanks to you the attack is not going to happen the attackers will still remain where they are so you didnt really exactly deter them from anything. A few MMOs do have a small number of escort quest and in many cases this results in 2 copies of the npcs you're escorting. Still generally Few MMOs really do escort quest. the majority have you deliver the packages yourself. Once again the world isnt alive nothing is happening everything is centered around you. You destroying buildings is fairly common in other MMOs true, but how many MMOs has NPCs destorying buildings you are tasked with protecting? Nearly none which brings us to the next issues. In how many MMOs can you really fail? 99.9% you cant even fail a quest if you try hard. Defending a town means you can go for a 10 year long break, reload the game and pickup killing the remaining X of Y right were you left off. In those 10 years that invasion never takes place because well the world is litterally revolving around you. In the other 0.1% that might include a timer making it possible to fail a quest you dont really fail either. All it has you do is restart the quest. Not so In Gw2, in Gw2 a failure will result in real failure both visually and logically. Still has some similarities in that you can do something about the failure and turn it to success again just like abondoning and retaking the quest but the experiance is so much better from an immersion point of you.
If in a generic MMO you're given 10 minutes to repel an invasion by bandits and you fail visually nothing changes. You abandone the quest talk to the same npc and you get another 10 minutes to try again. If you give up and leave failing to stop the bandits will not have really changed anything, the villagers are still safe and sound and they will be each time you pass throught that village even though you never managed to stop the bandits. In Gw2 its worlds apart for the most part. Failing to defend the town will end up with buildings on fire, villagers killed / kidnapped or driven off. If you walk away without succeeding in saving the village that state will persist until other players drive those bandits out. Next time you pass around the village might still be occuptied or it might be free.
This is exactly what I am talking about, you're viewing the game as if your character is at the center of it. The bandits should never assault the village because your character has a presence there. Thats not realistic at all. The bandits assault the village because they have their own motivations. In some areas its to drive the farmers out to gain control over the food supply. The beauty that makes the world feel even more alive is the game is designed to have these objective reflected in most of the zone. Like taking Queensdale for example, the bandits try to sabotage the water supply to kill crops and cause a scarcity. If they succeed that creates an unintended sideffect on litterally the other side of the map where the water supply gets tainted NPCs will complain they are sick and you can see a little green myst coming out from the well there. The bandits will also assault and try to gain control of the mill and the warehouse in the basement of the mill. They will also assault the nearby farms trying to take control of the animals. And you can see all of this happening right in front of your eyes, its not just a couple of lines of text told to you by an NPC how can anyone say thats not a lot more immersive then anything any other MMO has to offer?
Anyway I deviated, sorry, so well we determined that Bandits have thier own motivation to attack a village or whatever. The defenders obviously dont want to loose everything and be driven out of their homes. Now you as a player seeing this happening right infront of your eyes have a choice. You can decide that since you dont have a personal stake you dont care enough to take action and try to save the villagers. You can also decide its the right thing to do and lend a hand, its entirely up to you. Quests arent any better either in this regards. How many quests that ask you to defend a village put players personal holidings at risk should you fail to defend that village? None not aware of a single one. Its even a problem in single player RPGs. Most of them the only incentive they give you is to clear out your name, which you end up doing by killing so many people that I am not so sure you'd have really cleared anything in the end. I mean most games should end along the lines of "ohh okey sorry we were pretty sure you were the one who killed our king but alas we were mistaken sorry. Ohh but we're pretty sure you're the one who killed all our brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers and those other 1000s of people you slautered in your pursuit to clear out your name. you know what I liked you better when I thought you had only killed the king"
Bottom line I dont really see it as meanigless, Its stuff that makes the game feel alive. It keeps the game dynamic, NPCs running around, assaults, convoys moving around, a theiving skirt here and there, prisonners, patrols, ambushes. Things happening around you. How can any of these things not add to making the world feel alive?