40 replies to this topic

[mofogie]

Recently i took up ranger full-time, and i'm impressed!  at least for spvp, i've had no problems taking on any class, except for maybe extremely skilled mesmers, but even then it's 50/50.  I'm doing traps/ conditions, and am still figuring it out.  My main is thief, which i'm very good at, and also warrior, so i do have a strong background already of knowing classes and their tactics.

ranger is constantly knocked, and i think people just don't understand it, in general, much like GW1 for the first year.  In GW1, i played ranger at release, and everyone knocked it as well, but then us rangers started abusing spirits, then traps, then quickshot... anyway i digress.

But like rangers back then, i feel like the key to its playstyle is optimizing terrain.  Using distance advantage to its full potential, and line of sight abuse.  Playing wily, like a guerrilla, not like a machine gunner.  Leading people to your traps like a VietCong fighter, pecking people at max distance, softening up with your pets, etc...  and it's all easier to do now than in gw1.  

I feel the skill of the ranger is not so much in the actual skillset, but in the metagame.  

anyway, after spvping for a week on a ranger, i'm lvling one up fully.    shout out to all the rangers out there.

[NotKMoose]

Yea I've had a lot of fun in PvP with mine, only things that have been tough are thieves I don't see coming.

Edited by NotKMoose, 28 December 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[JROH]

It's true that the ranger trap build is strong. The community isn't complaining about ranger because we don't have any viable builds. The community complains because rangers looked to be the archer class everybody loves and ended up falling short. I played lots of competitive guild wars 1, and I miss the feel of my CripShot, MelsShot, and Magebane build. Sadly in this game, there seems to be nothing to fill that gap, and rangers just fall short of that bow class.

In short, people are only disappointed because the class doesn't play the way it seems it has the potential to play, and almost 3/4 of the utility skills are relatively useless (it's probably more like 3/8, 3/4 is too high).
Yes, traps are very useful and can be very fun to play. But I don't want that to be the only build I can run to the same effect either. Not that every other class doesn't have the same problem, though it's hard to tell for me at this point which classes are being forced into doing what, either due to the metagame or due to lack of options.

[mofogie]

is cond/trap the onlny viable one?  beast seems very strong, but i need to look into it more.  Melee looks pretty strong too, at least sword.

as for other classes, thieves have it best in variety, every one of their weap combination is strong, except for maybe pistol pistol.  Mes has it nice too, most of their weapon and relevant specs are strong.  My first class was warrior, and it was severely disappointing in WvW.  it was either be a rifle warrior, heal/tank, or get zerged and die fast.   Even in spvp, the zerging is a problem for warriors, though not nearly as much.

[slackerpete]

I havent found a trapbuild that is strong enough. The only build I find viable in spvp/tpvp is 0/0/0/30/10/30.
And that build is boooring as hell.

Sure you have high surviveability, but your dmg output is 2 low.

But im open to suggestions for competitive builds so please feel free to post condi/trap builds that I can try out.

[Zzyzx]

slackerpete, on 29 December 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

I havent found a trapbuild that is strong enough. The only build I find viable in spvp/tpvp is 0/0/0/30/10/30.
And that build is boooring as hell.

Sure you have high surviveability, but your dmg output is 2 low.

But im open to suggestions for competitive builds so please feel free to post condi/trap builds that I can try out.

Yeah you're using the wrong build for trapper ranger. Here it is.

http://gw2skills.net...d8xvAA;TIAAzCqA

You have tons of damage and a ton of toughness and a lot of survivability with the evades on your sword and dodges etc...

Sigils and runes are kinda up to you.

Edited by Zzyzx, 29 December 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[JROH]

Zzyzx, on 29 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yeah you're using the wrong build for trapper ranger. Here it is.

http://gw2skills.net...d8xvAA;TIAAzCqA

You have tons of damage and a ton of toughness and a lot of survivability with the evades on your sword and dodges etc...

Sigils and runes are kinda up to you.

I think you may have misinterpreted the post. I read it as saying that the person has had no experience with trap builds at all, and that the only spec they have had success with is 0/0/30/10/30 spec.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt anybody is trying to run a trap setup without skirmishing.

[The Mighteous One]

You know, I liked the original post. But reading the follow-up though, I have to chuckle about the guy talking about a "wrong build." LOL! You kids bring your WoW mindset to GW2, thinking that setting your traits a particular way or having the right gear even makes a difference. It doesn't make a difference.

It's exactly how the guy in the OP said. Wily. Terrain. Guerilla. You put your traits however you want, as long as you have the necessary qualities that make you a wily person, who fights like a guerrila, making use of terrain, you're gonna win the game, son! The Ranger is so overpowered, I almost wish that ArenaNet would nerf the Ranger to give me more of a challenge.

You can have the "right" traits and the "right" gear until your face turns blue, if you don't know what you're doing you're not gonna kill anything but yourself. I played a Guardian for the first couple months, then I made a Ranger. I'm pretty confident that I'm the best Ranger that I have ever seen, and once you watch the videos I'm gonna put up whenever I get em done, I'm going to be the best Ranger YOU have ever seen!

You're going to be asking me my traits, and my gear, and all kinds of insignificant nonsense! You're gonna wanna know what I ate for breakfast so that you can eat it too and maybe be half as good at playing a Ranger as I am. But it doesn't matter what you do! It doesn't matter because there are Rangers (me) and then are rangers with a lowercase "R."

I have never been beat by a ranger and then said "Wow. That guy is better than I am." In fact, after I destroy rangers I usually think to myself that if I could just bottle up my Ranger skills and sell em on the market, I'd be filthy rich. Because you guys are EVERYWHERE out there! All over the place! Trying out what you read was a "good build" on some message board. LOL.

Well the world thought Larry Bird was good until they met Michael Jordan. You'll soon meet the Ranger equivalent of Michael Jordan.

[jeddahwe]

You can always craft multiple sets and play 30/30/5/0/5!  That point spread will allow you to play any 'bow' style you like while giving the freedom to use many utilities.  Myslef I would go for a heavy SIgnet build and simply use pet swap as my mini QZ and might even use a sigil to chain that burst since QZ is 60 sec CD and Sigil of Range is 45 sec CD and seeing how the build is not pet centric, I really don't care that QZ also affects the pet!

Edited by jeddahwe, 30 December 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[slackerpete]

JROH is correct, What I really want is a build that isnt 0/0/0/30/10/30, but still feels that I can survive longer than 10 seconds if people focus me.

I tried that trapper specc yesterday and either I do something wrong or traprangers are squishy as hell.

and to mr Mighteous one with the capital R in Ranger... If you think we are here to just get the perfect specc so we can all roll our heads on the keyboard and be successful, then my friend your ego is so great that we all cant fit with you in Lions Arch

We are all trying to find out what builds / playstyles are viable, exchanging ideas with eachother.

Edited by slackerpete, 30 December 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[Tempo]

Hi !

I played for a long time a build balanced between damage and tankyness :

http://gw2skills.net...QklIHRSiWfM YvA

Just test it, it is the best for me at the moment

The 0/0/0/30/10/30 is great tanking but the lack of damage is soo sad....

I think that the main problem is pet instant dying in a heavy group fight. You can avoid that by building around pet survivability but that's all your points and utilities that are used for this and you have nothing left...

Edited by Tempo, 30 December 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[mofogie]

i def wanna agree with the emphasis on player skill over builds.  it seems no matter what build you go, you have to learn to 'ranger' aka, be wily.  

i switched from traps/ cond, to beastmaster recently, even for spvp. It's quite strong!  I run away even more now, using the sword 2 skill, while my cat chomps on the enemies' asses. Basically i'm really far from harm's way, and can escape very easily, and run around terrain objects round and round more effectively, because a beastmaster's pet does more damage than a nonbeast.  And the maps with siege weapons...  even better.  pet hunts while i siege.  

i'm really loving ranger.  getting alot of lighthearted frustrated remarks from enemies.  As a thief, (which is what i was for most of the time), people just get mad, say you got no skill. As a ranger, people seem to understand that alot of their death was their own fault, trying to chase you and getting themselves killed.

[JROH]

mofogie, on 30 December 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

i def wanna agree with the emphasis on player skill over builds.  it seems no matter what build you go, you have to learn to 'ranger' aka, be wily.  

i switched from traps/ cond, to beastmaster recently, even for spvp. It's quite strong!  I run away even more now, using the sword 2 skill, while my cat chomps on the enemies' asses. Basically i'm really far from harm's way, and can escape very easily, and run around terrain objects round and round more effectively, because a beastmaster's pet does more damage than a nonbeast.  And the maps with siege weapons...  even better.  pet hunts while i siege.  

i'm really loving ranger.  getting alot of lighthearted frustrated remarks from enemies.  As a thief, (which is what i was for most of the time), people just get mad, say you got no skill. As a ranger, people seem to understand that alot of their death was their own fault, trying to chase you and getting themselves killed.

See, and this is very good for the ranger profession and ranger community to share what has success and where with the community.

I feel like people see that I don't have a positive message every time I post something about ranger, and then they dismiss what I say if they have had a positive experience and tell me that I need to "L2P" or other such nonsense.

In fact, I have somewhere around 800 games with my ranger and do all my build making and theorycrafting exclusively on ranger, because I know it has the potential to be much more than what it is, just like what happened with the ranger in the first guild wars.

All I'm trying to point out is that lots of our traits and utility skills gimp us into certain selections. Signets have recharges that are far too long for what the active effect provides, for instance. Nature Spirits shouldn't only affect one person before triggering the buff and disabling its effect for 10 seconds (at the very least, I would rather it be a party wide buff with no 100% uptime, so that it stays balanced. Like: "gives allies swiftness for 5s, every 10s" or something similar). Shouts are all over the place, with Protect Me and Search and Destroy having their uses, Guard being extremely situation and used in WvW a lot simply to make pets run up and down keep walls (which should expect a patch, because let's face it, if the shortbow auto attack with an animation issue, pets climbing vertical walls is definitely the same thing), and Sic' Em being situational, because for me half the time it works, and half the time I activate it and the pet never attacks even though it is right next to the person because the move a step and now the pet has to restart its whole pathing process.
In short, I don't feel I'm asking for more damage or anything, just some more functionality in certain things so that I don't feel as though I only have 8-10 skills I can use in my utility slot, when on classes like warrior and thief, and ele, and mesmer, and engineer, and necro, I have a hard time choosing my utilities because they all have uses in a wide area of situations.

Traits on the other hand are terrible for ranger. Half of the grandmaster traits have zero benefit to trait to 30 for, Nature Magic is too spirit driven (as in, can I get even something as simple as "pet crits get x boon for y seconds", it is the boon tree after all), there are traits like gaining 1 stack of might for 5 seconds on signet activation, which should be reworked entirely (this also proves a lot of trait functions were just copied and pasted across the board and not changed based on how they affect each individual class).
My biggest gripes are the grandmaster traits though. Remorseless is a PvE only skill and has virtually no use in PvP, Moment of Clarity, with its update, now is actually 50% viable instead of 0%, but still needs to be reworked since rangers have almost no opportunities to take advantage of the "attack of opportunity" under the condition they get it, Spirits Unbound is limited by the fact that spirits are underpowered, Evasive Purity is a garbage filler skill, and Instinctual Bond may have been almost situational IF it activated when lick wounds was available.

Summarized, rangers have no issues dealing damage. It's the other things that make classes viable that still need work.

[The Mighteous One]

I hear what you're saying, slacker. But I think you're wrong. This guy (JROH) isn't looking to do anything but roll his head on the keyboard, Don Music style, and win. Did you read that giant wall of complaints? We're not strong enough, we're not tough enough, we we we. No, no, no, SON!

There's no "Mighteous" in "we." I had a couple of technical difficulties with my video, but I'm working it out. It's about 40 minutes worth of me just playing in WvW. I have to say, if I wasn't so impressed with myself I might have gotten it done sooner. I was so transfixed by the pure GREATNESS, though.

You'll see what I'm talking about soon enough.

[mofogie]

there's def some reworkign need to be done on traits.  It should be a developer's job to try to make everything they put in the game, as desirable to use as possible, without being overpowered. So if something is under used, it should be re evaluated.  

i agree on the signets. the passives are incredibly powerful for beastmasters, but the activated is oddly absurdly long cooldown.  

i disagree with you though, warrior has it pigeonholed far worse.  they are highly limited based on what weapon they choose, almost always stuck with the same slot skills for that weapon.  

rangers do have it nice, though the slot skills aren't as robust as they could be, you still have great choices on pets.

[mofogie]

i also wanted to add, this is the one class that i've played alot, (thief war ranger ele),  that does NOT need an escape skill.  On all other classes, i've never gone without shadowstep, endure pain, or mist form no matter the spec.  On ranger, i've never used lightning reflexes, or protect me ever once.  That is pretty awesome having that extra slot.

[JROH]

Ignoring the troll, and just as a general response, I find the ranger to have great damage. My only complaint that even remotely affects damage would be I think the longbow needs some increased pacing in firing, but that isn't a ranger specific issue, that is a weapon specific issue for all classes with access to that weapon.

EVERY class in the game needs some touching up on utility viability/function and traits. It goes without saying though, as there is a list of fixes for every class in every forum. I find that all I'm doing is restating things I find in my play experience that other players have found long before me.

Trolls will be trolls though. Some people in this thread remind me of some Kanye West lyrics, paraphrased, about riding their own *s and such. I never knew you could have a dick so far up your ass that egotistical trolling spews out of your mouth, but today was the day that notion was proven wrong.

[mofogie]

^the longbow is incredibly frustratingly slow lol.  plus the lower damage on shorter ranges.

so i got to lvl 80 recently, been wvwing.   I'm a norn beastmaster, and omg, it is SO cheap!   i roll in 5x the kills on my thief, but the ranger can do incredible things the thief can't, like repeatedly sending in pets to kill siege or lowbies.    Just found out how "guard!" can exploit over walls.  

and when all else fails, i snow leopard and book it haha.  norn ranger is da sex

[Straegen]

I am a condi ranger and have no problems burning down characters health quickly. In our guild, much respect is given to my rangers durability with over 25k health, its overall speed and the overall damage effectiveness. It doesn't shine as well in 1v1 combat but in mob fights it is very effective. Certainly helps that the warhorn buffs the group for speed and barrage can hit siege equipment. You certainly don't want to retreat by turning your back against a well built condi ranger.

[mofogie]

i love cond /traps in spvp, but how does it fare in wvw?  in spvp i can freqruently throw my traps, but its medium range seems far too short in wvw, where zerg packs are at a long distance.  Then you're just left with... crossfire?  is that good enouhg?

[Happiness Factory]

mofogie, on 02 January 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

i love cond /traps in spvp, but how does it fare in wvw?  in spvp i can freqruently throw my traps, but its medium range seems far too short in wvw, where zerg packs are at a long distance.  Then you're just left with... crossfire?  is that good enouhg?

Well in my experience of WvW, picking off enemies from range is better left to siege weapons like a ballista or I guess a rifle warrior. On the otherhand traps are great for skirmishes just as they are in spvp. Because of traps rangers are arguably the best 1v1 class in the game.

[Straegen]

I exclusively run WvW and use a somewhat unorthodox build as I don't have a "trick" like many other classes but it also isn't particularly weak in any one area so I get bags by simply staying and spraying.

While some of the more OP builds are problematic (shatter mesmers, invincible elementalist, perma-stealth thieves being the top 3) everything else seems fairly even aside from player ability. With piercing, flanking and the shortbows machine gun fire most glass canon builds feel the pressure from so many hits in such a short time span and tank builds often struggle with condition damage that frequently sneaks up on them. Often my bags come after a player has darted into a keep or tried to run away. I certainly tag a lot players most of which I damage enough to take home a bag.

The action combat mod makes this class a lot more fun as well.

[UssjTrunks]

JROH, on 28 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

It's true that the ranger trap build is strong. The community isn't complaining about ranger because we don't have any viable builds. The community complains because rangers looked to be the archer class everybody loves and ended up falling short. I played lots of competitive guild wars 1, and I miss the feel of my CripShot, MelsShot, and Magebane build. Sadly in this game, there seems to be nothing to fill that gap, and rangers just fall short of that bow class.

Having been a ranger main in GW1, this is how I felt about the GW2 ranger. I feel that rifle warrior has more of that GW1 ranger vibe so I rolled with that instead.

[mofogie]

^ must have played a different time than me then.  i was in a top guild in first and second season, of the original, prophecies.   Ranger damage was so pitiful, that warriors could even take 0 damage from them for ages, so everyone thought they were crap.

but i was a ranger since beta, and for a long time, rangers were the most op things ever, not through straight damage, but through shutdown, shutdown via traps, or spirits, or interrupts, it was just one OP build after another.  

so to me, ranger never equated 'archer.'  in fact, the original meaning of a ranger was a woodsman/ survivalist, one who uses everything, who uses a wide 'range' of skills.

[JROH]

mofogie, on 06 January 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

^ must have played a different time than me then.  i was in a top guild in first and second season, of the original, prophecies.   Ranger damage was so pitiful, that warriors could even take 0 damage from them for ages, so everyone thought they were crap.

but i was a ranger since beta, and for a long time, rangers were the most op things ever, not through straight damage, but through shutdown, shutdown via traps, or spirits, or interrupts, it was just one OP build after another.  

so to me, ranger never equated 'archer.'  in fact, the original meaning of a ranger was a woodsman/ survivalist, one who uses everything, who uses a wide 'range' of skills.

Yeah rangers were largely a utility class, and the builds for GvG play remained interrupt builds for the duration of the game and all of the expansions. Some elites brought a bit more pressure damage to rangers, but overall, the job was to spread poison and interrupt key skills, and, depending on what you were doing for your team, harass the flag runner.

[Piteous]

I wish I had found ranger before I leveled up two other toons to 80, necro and guardian. I got my ranger to lvl 20 and am loving it. Way back I read in the forums that ranger was no good or something to that effect, so I didn't look at it again till now.

[mofogie]

^exactly!  when i first started playing all i heard was 'rangers are bad' they nerfed this, nerfed that.... i didnt roll a ranger because i did so much ranger in gw1, but anytime the majority of people say something... i'm thinking in the back of my head, it's because it hasn't been figured out yet.

when i first started WoW, warlocks were the most underplayed class, they were thought as terrible.  with absolutely no changes, they rose to the top !  and stayed there for many expansions to come.  

these lessons have taught me always take flavor of the month talk with a grain of salt

[Nirc]

The only Ranger build I've tried in sPvP is a RaO build with the trait that lets me gain signet actives for myself, too, then I in put the signets that make me bigger/do damage on my next attack and take no damage for 6 seconds, and I use Quickening Zephyr. I think it's probably just a gimmick build, but it's pretty fun.

The Mighteous One, on 30 December 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

You know, I liked the original post. But reading the follow-up though, I have to chuckle about the guy talking about a "wrong build." LOL! You kids bring your WoW mindset to GW2, thinking that setting your traits a particular way or having the right gear even makes a difference. It doesn't make a difference.

It will make a world of difference once (if) competitive sPvP and GvG roll around to GW2

Edited by Nirc, 18 January 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Garethh]

The Mighteous One, on 30 December 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

You know, I liked the original post. But reading the follow-up though, I have to chuckle about the guy talking about a "wrong build." LOL! You kids bring your WoW mindset to GW2, thinking that setting your traits a particular way or having the right gear even makes a difference. It doesn't make a difference.

I didn't read the rest because im lazy, but yeah, your odd.

Wrong is a term with an end, just like right.  The only end, in and of the game itself is victory and when it comes to that, in fact, he is running undeniably the wrong build.  There are many ways to do everything better than a 0/0/30/10/30 trap ranger.  The only other place to put it is if you take the goal, to base right/wrong off of, outside of the game... to things like why you play the game (enjoyment, epeen, exc.).  That is way too convoluted, to be able to throw a right or wrong on to motivations, meaning yeah, right/wrong when it comes to playing a game really only holds sensible context when it comes to playing it to its zenith, so for all intensive purposes what he saying makes fine enough sense...

Which doesn't even get into calling 'a competitive mindset' a 'WoW mindset'...

Anyways, it's cool people are finding the class enjoyable, traps are a hell of a blast to run with, they can carry you threw next to any 1v1 if you can get your head around what to dodge, enemy condi removal and how to use your pet well.

Edited by Garethh, 21 January 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Garethh]

mofogie, on 13 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

^exactly!  when i first started playing all i heard was 'rangers are bad' they nerfed this, nerfed that....

They were bad.
Its not that nerfs killed the class, but the class was the worst competitively yet recieving nothing but minor nerfs in the form of 'bug' fixes... it confused allot of people and caused others to bitch out Anet.

When it came to the role of the ranger; the class had a few solid 1v1~ specs, which is cool, but not for zerge based SPvP and they even didn't fit well into competitive TPvP scene, leaving a smaller margin of casual TPvP to play somewhat effectively.

Edited by Garethh, 21 January 2013 - 05:48 PM.