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What can we do to save WvW?


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#1 Hennet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

There is a lot of highly active people here, and I wanted to throw this question out to you.

What can we, as the primary WvW community, do to save WvW? We have no "new" content coming to us for another 4 resets at least, it seems the T1/T2 matches have become stale with little to no movement in the last month of matches. What do you think can be done to save the game we all enjoy playing?

Brainstorm ideas here:

#2 ketorin23

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

honestly server merges and a big content update are the only things that are gonna fix it right now.. they need to give people a reason to come back, and keep WvW action packed 24/7 or its going to keep going down

#3 NCLTDS

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

I'd like to see eu to NA wvw merger. Keep the separate pve if you want but match top NA with bottom Eu and vice versa.

Not enough bodies to fill wvw 24/7. Only solution is merger, otherwise it's a numbers game of who has more.

#4 Hennet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

Server mergers can be done by the guild if they are willing to transfer to the servers and spread out amongst them to promote good competition. Stacking on one server just because they are winning is rather stupid IMO.

#5 Jedbacca

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

Be weary of approaching other servers on this topic.  I went to a servers forums and got flamed for a lot of facts I was unaware of.  I've been trying to reach out to anyone to come in and join us at SBI :)

#6 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

Why save? Just admit it was a mistake and make a new PvP mode.

#7 MonsterDemon

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

Everyone keeps saying mergers... but mergers as in allowing cross rivalry or merging them together?  If merging them together, I can guarantee that it'll die probably even faster.  It all depends on how the merger gets done.  Who in their right mind wants to wait 3-4 hours for a chance to play?  When it first came out, yes... people were willing to wait.  I doubt people want to wait hours for a chance to play.  Rivalries between different International servers will help prolong the time WvW stays alive, but unless there's a better reward system and ranking/rating system, people may not get the urge to want to play.  The current rating system for servers is hell right now.  You'll face the same servers again and again.  Gets repetitive and boring.  Guilds should get ranked for their contributions to the success of the WvW.  Individuals should be ranked based on their ability to take out multiple opponents.  If it takes ganging up to beat a single person, no rating points are gained.  It'll create an environment where they feel being outmanned it's more fun?

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 28 December 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Why save? Just admit it was a mistake and make a new PvP mode.

Making a new PvP mode will not make them any money if it's same as in GW1.  The reason GW1 made money even with their smaller scale PvP is due to new chapters and if you want that skill and new class, you buy that new chapter.  Do we want GW2 to implement the yearly chapter thing and charge $30-50 for them?

#8 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

I'd gladly pay 60$ here and now for Cantha Expansion and Heroes Ascent.

#9 MonsterDemon

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 28 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

I'd gladly pay 60$ here and now for Cantha Expansion and Heroes Ascent.

See... that is what we need.  People who are willing to pay annually to keep Anet people from starving.  I don't think it applies to all.  Regardless of what is said... the current state of GW2 is catered towards PVE folks because there is a greater potential PVE people will want to pay real money for their mini-pets, special clothing, makeup, boosts, and etc.

#10 Vihar

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

I am afraid there is no long term fix the player community can do.

  There just isn't any progression or reward for WvW.

  There isn't even glory in it, because noone knows who you are....you are just "Blue Invader".

   You can't even graduate to "Blue Knight" after X amount of kills.

   It would be nice if we could at least be recognizable as individuals, so folks will at least know who we are and maybe have some rivalry or something.

   Right now we are nobodies doing something that has no progression and no reward. We don't even know who are fighting against other than "Blue Invader".

   There is absolutely NOTHING a WvW player can do that will be recognized as an achievement.

   You could spend 40 hours a week in WvW for months, and still be the same as anyone stepping into WvW for the first time just to get their map completion.

   You are nobody, and nothing you do counts for anything.

#11 NCLTDS

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

I am really curios what anet is working on for pvp. Wish they would throw us a bone and let us know what they are toying with even if it's just a teaser. The best way to keep a community happy is to be open and communicate with them.

#12 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostVihar, on 28 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I am afraid there is no long term fix the player community can do.

  There just isn't any progression or reward for WvW.

  There isn't even glory in it, because noone knows who you are....you are just "Blue Invader".

   You can't even graduate to "Blue Knight" after X amount of kills.

   It would be nice if we could at least be recognizable as individuals, so folks will at least know who we are and maybe have some rivalry or something.

   Right now we are nobodies doing something that has no progression and no reward. We don't even know who are fighting against other than "Blue Invader".

   There is absolutely NOTHING a WvW player can do that will be recognized as an achievement.

   You could spend 40 hours a week in WvW for months, and still be the same as anyone stepping into WvW for the first time just to get their map completion.

   You are nobody, and nothing you do counts for anything.

This man speaks the truth.

#13 Norn Osprey

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostVihar, on 28 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I am afraid there is no long term fix the player community can do.

There just isn't any progression or reward for WvW.

There isn't even glory in it, because noone knows who you are....you are just "Blue Invader".

It would be nice if we could at least be recognizable as individuals, so folks will at least know who we are and maybe have some rivalry or something.

There is absolutely NOTHING a WvW player can do that will be recognized as an achievement.

You could spend 40 hours a week in WvW for months, and still be the same as anyone stepping into WvW for the first time just to get their map completion.

You are nobody, and nothing you do counts for anything.
That's a bit extreme. As you play against the same servers, you can identify people in small groups. Not in zergs obviously.

Personally, I agree with generic names. People would purposely harass the same people over and over. I've seen it countless times in other games.

On Topic. What can any game do to save pvp ?  Add incentives. Biggest drawback for me personally and my guildies, is Culling. Despise it. Can't see people, zergs, own side. Why bother playing WvW when targets are invisible due to culling?

#14 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

I think Arena Net knows well that they failed to deliver the promised epic WvW and E Sport, but they do not want to admit failure, therefore rather than making a new, better PvP, they'll just keep "upgrading" the current PvP.

#15 MonsterDemon

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:08 PM

ANet may not want to start banning too many accounts due to harassment.  Maybe that's why they kept it at "XXX Invaders" instead of "Name:  Vilnar - Guild:  Rage - Server:  Stormbluff Isle".  Remember how you can find the person's name when you try to report someone at one point?  Not anymore.  Some takes trash talking better than others.  But some of the trash can be quite offensive.

#16 Vihar

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostNorn Osprey, on 28 December 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

That's a bit extreme. As you play against the same servers, you can identify people in small groups. Not in zergs obviously.

Personally, I agree with generic names. People would purposely harass the same people over and over. I've seen it countless times in other games.

On Topic. What can any game do to save pvp ?  Add incentives. Biggest drawback for me personally and my guildies, is Culling. Despise it. Can't see people, zergs, own side. Why bother playing WvW when targets are invisible due to culling?

I guess it depends on your nature.

  In a previous game, my guild had our universal all time favorite thread.....

  It was called "mobs just don't QQ like this", where we would screenshot all of the harassing and complaining and post it.

   It was a point of pride when people go out of there way to target you.

   It means you are doing a good job.

   For us, that kind of QQ and behavior is it's own reward.

    Look at it this way....

   If noone insults you and harasses you, noone notices you....you are nobody.

   BRING ON THE QQ AND INSULTS!

   I would LOVE to bring that thread back to life. That in itself was great motivation.

   Nobody is going to harass you if they pwn you.

  They only do that when they fear you.

#17 Hennet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

I would love to be able to talk to the people we are fighting. Hell even just SEE THE NAMES of who we are fighting.... but I feel like if that was the case I would get focused a lot more than I do now :/

#18 Vihar

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

View PostHennet, on 28 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

I would love to be able to talk to the people we are fighting. Hell even just SEE THE NAMES of who we are fighting.... but I feel like if that was the case I would get focused a lot more than I do now :/

Right.

  Then you know that your name means something to the bad guys. They hate you or fear you, or both.

   Which is a precious thing that devs can't program.

   As long as your guildies can take advantage of the enemies' focusing on you, they get wtfpwned, anyway.

#19 borovnica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

They just need to add some new type of armors and weapons that you can only get from WvW.. and biggest thing of them all.... NO MORE FREE SERVER TRANSFERS... that is what killed WvW... all WvW focused guilds and people just leave one server to go to the better ranked one, becuase hey, it cost you nothing to do that... Server goes down in ranking, why not move to better tiered server then, it's free after all... Some of you may disagree with me, but that is my biggest issue with WvW... That and the culling issue.

Edited by borovnica, 28 December 2012 - 09:50 PM.


#20 Impmon

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

Instead of mergers it'll be like heart of the mists.  You'll queue for wvw instanced bg's.  You'll be on a red, blue or green team and not representing your server anymore.  They'll have to do this due to low populations.

#21 borovnica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostImpmon, on 28 December 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Instead of mergers it'll be like heart of the mists.  You'll queue for wvw instanced bg's.  You'll be on a red, blue or green team and not representing your server anymore.  They'll have to do this due to low populations.

That kinda defeats the WvW purpose, doesn't it :D

#22 Hennet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

Imp how would that work for guilds?

How long would the matches be?

Would you be able to Queue as a group or squad?

#23 NCLTDS

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

I suppose they could add more pve to it. You have a keep for a few hours and the lord decides it time to push out to one of the other keeps you don't own. The opposing keep lord comes out to meet and have some npc battle that players can assist in. Whoever wins has their lord move up and helps siege for 30 minutes. Losing side has the keep lord downed and not rez-able for 30 minutes so getting in means the circle is already up. Reward would be a chest that could give cool things like not soul bound/account bound ascended gear, legendary precursors, skins, GOLD.

How do you get a pve person into wvw? Give them more pve!

#24 Hennet

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

I would like to see a merger of the EU and NA brackets. Take 2-3 servers, group them together and have it be one large battle. Increase the size of the WvW maps to make getting from point to point a little more difficult and allow that to add strategic play...

There are lots of things we can say we would like them to do, but that wont mean much. What can WE do as the WvW players to make it more fun for us?

#25 Earendil

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

I believe there are pressures to financial performances on the devs that we ignore. The Fractals/ascended fiasco was an example - I got the feeling that they "had" to do it while knowing exactly the consequences.

Someone who plays WvW for months is not bringing any new money. The newcomer who just bought the game starts with PvE, tries WvW (and finds that he has exactly the same rights and privileges as the veteran) is the one they target. All their decisions for WvW were focused towards bringing the casuals in. Dedicated, veterans were ignored. My guess is that in this perspective, if you enjoyed WvW for 2-3 months you got what you paid for.

This is why they remove any way to control your own forces. Imagine how simple it would be to allow the commander to invite/accept into his "squad" a number of 20, 30 or 40. This would be a boon to dedicated PvPers - but it would make the ones "not invited" feel rejected, something they don't want to.

Also - the name removal - to protect non PvPers. Captain Siegerazer. PvP jumping puzzles. and so on.

All this would be ok, if there would exist a parallel e-sports form of GvG, like what used to be in GW1 (with TV please - that's all the glory you would need). There is none though, again because they do not want people to feel "excluded".

So - my guess is that WvW will not change - it serves exactly it's purpose. They do not want to hook players in for 10 years - you had fun for 3-4 months, you got what you paid for.

I can bet that the famous "February updates" will be more of the same. Plenty of PvE type content, and stuff to attract the PvErs into WvW. Very little for the dedicated WvW guilds and players. It's their business model.

They "might" add some new incentives for dedicated PvPers on the next 60$ game expansion. Maybe.

Edited by Earendil, 28 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.


#26 JHCinSC

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

I am new to WvW, but fix the culling issues.  I was playing last night with my guild and there were times when our small zerg ran into an enemy zerg and I couldn't see anyone.  We just blindly put down AoE hoping that it would hit someone.  Really?  Is this the way the game was designed?  Once I made my monthly and got my karma jugs I left for pve where I can actually see the enemy.  I will only WvW enough to get my monthly in the future.

#27 Nadia Roark

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

Nothing, probably. I like the concept but it doesn't seem to be working out. A large guild moving to or from a server can way too easily make or break it. Ever since release, Tier 1 has been carried more or less by a handful of larger guilds and their hangers-on, which (unfortunately) sometimes materialize even in other servers.

At the risk of being unpopular, I place a lot of the blame squarely on Jade Quarry. Since release, it has never played to win, only to stay in T1. First HoD and now SoS are profiting immensely from this habit, leading to a laughably un-competitive Tier 1. Perhaps if SBI gets pushed out soon the dynamic will change, but at this point I can only imagine WvW participation in most NA servers will only decline. For my part, I just hit Tier 5 in WvW kills, so I'm going to break for a bit and work on my legendary until I need the rest of those badges for my Gift of Mastery. I've wasted a ton of badges on stupid shit already like invader ele gear, so I don't have much of an interest in this point in earning anything more than the requisite 500 for the Gift.

Hate all you want or call me butthurt, it's all good; I'm just offering my opinion as someone who has played a lot but is losing interest in WvW. There is virtually no competition and the rewards just aren't good enough.

Edited by Nadia Roark, 29 December 2012 - 01:12 AM.


#28 Antithesis

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostEarendil, on 28 December 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

So - my guess is that WvW will not change - it serves exactly it's purpose. They do not want to hook players in for 10 years - you had fun for 3-4 months, you got what you paid for.


I have to disagree here. No company invests the time and resources to include another completely ( and standalone ) version of group pvp with the thoughts of "if someone plays a couple months then that was a good investment".

It just hasn't been as thought out as it could have been. If they want the mode to continue they have to provide incentives for long term play as has been mentioned. Simple really. Dont and then the money and time spent was wasted and no one will play.

BTW I think that once a tower/keep/castle is taken then all dead former occupiers should be automatically respawned. The thief and dead mes trick is really getting old.

#29 Impmon

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:13 AM

View PostHennet, on 28 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Imp how would that work for guilds?

You could queue random or as a guild & you'd fight other guilds.  They could then rank the guilds & you'd get a better idea of what guild was the best.  Random would be like heart of the mists where you get placed on one team red, green or blue.  All teams would be made with even numbers.

How long would the matches be?

They should set it up so that supply camps have a limited amount of resources that eventually run out.  Once the supplies have run out the game ends & whomever controls the most is the winner.  Or if one side captures everything they win.  Whoever wins is rewarded badges of honour, exp, karma & losers get the same just not as much.

There wouldn't be pvd00ring anymore and 24/7 req coverage because it'd all be instanced random or guild groups.


Would you be able to Queue as a group or squad?

Both


#30 Impmon

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:18 AM

View Postborovnica, on 28 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

That kinda defeats the WvW purpose, doesn't it :D

When the original clearly doesn't work & my suggestions would improve it who cares.




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