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What can we do to save WvW?


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#121 borovnica

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostNgamok, on 02 January 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

TBH what is WvWvW?  Some servers have lost all their WvW crowd to other servers and those servers have pretty much dropped from first to last.  My server has steadily lost people and now losing even more while some servers are gaining some from those leaving.  If every single server had the exact same population and coverage, then yes, being first in WvWvW does mean something.  But it doesn't.  All it has is numbers and coverage strengths and weaknesses.  So yes, queueing up as three sides does make sense in a way.

Or we could just keep free tansfers open forever so people can just keep piling onto whatever server they feel will hold their interest or just cause others to quit because they don't like what is happening to their server.  Or we can just merge servers and rework the tiers.

It would be nice to read what I wrote before.... I said free transfer is the reason why WvW is in this state... and as you can see I'm on Gunnar's Hold, I know how it's like to see so many people leave your server for other one because we are ranked low...

#122 Ngamok

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

View Postborovnica, on 03 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

It would be nice to read what I wrote before.... I said free transfer is the reason why WvW is in this state... and as you can see I'm on Gunnar's Hold, I know how it's like to see so many people leave your server for other one because we are ranked low...

I was being sort of sarcastic on that line.  Sorry, it's hard to read into that on typed sentences unless I use a /sarcasm /end sarcasm tag  :P

Edited by Ngamok, 03 January 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#123 Voradors

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

Not sure if i saw this mentioned, with the closest thing being maps for which tier you are in, how about 4 sets of maps rotated out for each WvW week?

As in:
Week 1 - Borderland map set A, EB map set A
Week 2 - Borderland map set B, EB map set B
Week 3 - Borderland map set C, EB map set C
Week 4 - Borderland map set D, EB map set D

Week 5 - Borderland map set A, EB map set B
Week 6 - Borderland map set B, EB map set A

Then every few months they can add a new set to the mix to liven things up.

I would like to see all 3 borderlands remain symmetrical within each week, because it would eliminate the possibility of "Oh, this map set? Guess green has the advantage".
Even if it was just psychological, you would see less people try if they werent on what is viewed as 'the better map', and then the 'better map' really would be just that.

Let each borderland and EB change from week to week.  Could help mix things up, and still not take ALOT of work on the developers part. Would only be 6 new maps; 3 new BL and 3 new EB.
At least it would mix things up a bit....

Edited by Voradors, 03 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.


#124 armetiz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

Please tell me what new map will change? I dont get it.

#125 Voradors

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

View Postarmetiz, on 03 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Please tell me what new map will change? I dont get it.

The same things they change for any game?  breathing fresh life into the community of people who are spending way too much time playing the game and get tired of seeing the same stuff over and over.

Also, so its not "Ok guys, we are taking Woodhaven, you know where to build the trebs. Once we are in, you know where to built the trebs to take Garrison. Lets do this!....again!"

#126 armetiz

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

Ok new map will give something fresh but after 2 weeks ? Month ? This will be again same WvW... new map wont get all players back.
If they just add new map im out because where is nothing to do.

#127 Voradors

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

View Postarmetiz, on 04 January 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Ok new map will give something fresh but after 2 weeks ? Month ? This will be again same WvW... new map wont get all players back.
If they just add new map im out because where is nothing to do.

I dont think anyone is asking for just maps, its just 1 thing on a list.  New maps would just help.

#128 darkrocker

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostVihar, on 28 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I am afraid there is no long term fix the player community can do.

  There just isn't any progression or reward for WvW.

  There isn't even glory in it, because noone knows who you are....you are just "Blue Invader".

   You can't even graduate to "Blue Knight" after X amount of kills.

   It would be nice if we could at least be recognizable as individuals, so folks will at least know who we are and maybe have some rivalry or something.

   Right now we are nobodies doing something that has no progression and no reward. We don't even know who are fighting against other than "Blue Invader".

   There is absolutely NOTHING a WvW player can do that will be recognized as an achievement.

   You could spend 40 hours a week in WvW for months, and still be the same as anyone stepping into WvW for the first time just to get their map completion.

   You are nobody, and nothing you do counts for anything.
This. Everything he says. Please Anet, don't let WvW die just because you don't want to steal more from DAoC. Just take their title system, naming system, and reward system(the points not what you do with them). We don't care if its your idea, just give us a reason to play and a way to stand out!

#129 asmodess

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:54 PM

This game needs a few things ,  in DAOC  you couldn`t see players names in RvR , all you saw was invader or defender , couldn`t see lvl either .

  However you could see their title under the invader tag etc to give you a idea of their rank in rvr , as well when you were killed or you killed someone there was a  zone wipe death message , stating so and so was killed by  x player in  the  lower marshlands etc if thats where you were killed ,.

  I`d be happy for atleast seeing the name of who killed me or  i killed message .

and a title rank for killing players in RvR . like kill 100 players get a title ,  kill 100 guild leaders get a title etc kill 500 x class and so on  warhammer had titles for killing all sort of numbers of classes , etc like kill 10k slayers get a special title . take x amout of keeps get a title  .

  Also the warhammer trophy system was fun too , basicly you could get trophys for various things wether it be pve or pvp and you could attach them too your character and  people could see them .

Game also needs a better chat feature like Warhammer had Alliance  chat system , that guilds could form a alliance with up to 10 guild alliance and use it in game  like guild chat but expanded .to inculded all members of the alliance  as a extra tool along with vent, raidcall , etc .

they already borrowed heavy from DAOC with their  WvW  even  the keep /tower lord and the orbs of power , ie  relics  they may aswell go ahead and borrow the rest ,  i know this game is a pve game and rvr/ WvW and  S pvp is a tacked on side sport  .

but they may as well keep stealing stuff from Daoc for WvW  no need to stop at half way .

#130 Impmon

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

View Postasmodess, on 04 January 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

This game needs a few things ,  in DAOC  you couldn`t see players names in RvR , all you saw was invader or defender , couldn`t see lvl either .

  However you could see their title under the invader tag etc to give you a idea of their rank in rvr , as well when you were killed or you killed someone there was a  zone wipe death message , stating so and so was killed by  x player in  the  lower marshlands etc if thats where you were killed ,.

  I`d be happy for atleast seeing the name of who killed me or  i killed message .


Yeah thats what I used to do all the time.  

X was killed by Y in random area.
/send tell to X, "where are you?"

runs to that area & kills the infiltrator

Also the RR title was nice to know you were going to be destroyed or not.  If you saw a group of RR10 people coming you know death was a few seconds away.  Although there was that bug where your RR11 title reset after RR11 back to 1.  I remember thinking lol look at that RR1 newb outside our portal keep and rushed out to fight and got promptly wrecked by the RR12+ dude.

#131 warble

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

I'd like a dragon to ride. Actually, to be perfectly honest I'd take an elderly broke down pig to ride from place to place. I know this isn't meant to be CQB style combat but I spend the majority of my time walking and not playing.

Be nice to have a position indicator for allies. I know, I know this is a land of myth and magic not technology but come on. You mean to tell me we can't have a scrying spell or something? I mean after all I can raise the dead, go invisible, fire 5500 arrows a second, and all the rest of it but I can't keep track of where my team is?

This is a no brainer, but reduce the cost of armor repair. Or better yet make it free. Or maybe make it cost karma instead of gold. Don't know just do it differently.

Like others have said make the enemy names visible. I don't understand the logic in pitting two players against one another and then hiding the names from each other. Wouldn't want anyone to have bragging rights or talk smack I guess...?

Another vote to fix the culling issue. Assuming it is fixable.

How about keeping track of our k/d ratio and other "micro" stats such as "best team work", or whatever. Just something that shows progression/improvement.

I'm sure I can come up with more but I'll start there. Not like any of them is going to happen anytime soon, but we can always hope.

#132 Kelo

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:39 PM

Since this is very important to the conversation at hand, Habib over at ANet recently made a post about fixing culling in WvW.

Quote

Thank you, Grit, for posting that link. It points to a post in which I describe the culling issue in some detail and discuss a few of the issues involved with changing culling. An even more in depth explanation of what culling is can be found here https://forum-en.gui...ge/4#post356817 (be sure to read both that post and the next – my description exceeded the post size limit).
As you know we’ve been working on this problem for a while but what I think we haven’t ever said before is that our goal is to remove culling completely from WvW. In order to remove culling completely we have to address three issues:

1) Bandwidth out of our servers/datacenter (traffic would increase without culling)
2) Bandwidth in to each client (traffic to each client would also increase without culling)
3) Client performance issues related to rendering (potentially) all the players on a map at once. (Note that we base our performance requirements in this case on min-spec clients. We don’t want to stop anybody being able to play the game after all.)

Until all three of those issues have been dealt with we can’t turn culling off because doing so would cause something to break or perform poorly.

Ok, now let’s talk about what progress we’ve made!
Issue #1 was the easiest to deal with because we can basically just throw money at the problem. When we first started down the road toward removing culling from WvW I took a bunch of bandwidth measurements and then went to the executives and said, essentially, “Hey, if we disable culling our network traffic will increase by X%. Are we ok with that?”. The answer I got was a clear and unambiguous “yes!” So issue #1 isn’t a problem after all.

Issue #2 is a little harder. We need to ensure that folks with a min-spec network connection won’t be overwhelmed by the data we send them and we obviously can’t just buy a better connection for all of our players. So we put our heads together and came up with a plan to reduce the bandwidth required for WvW (and Gw2 in general) as much as possible. Those changes are in testing now and will be rolled out as soon as we’re convinced that they’re solid. Assuming we’re able to get everything working the way we’d like (and I’m fairly confident that we will) then this will address issue #2.

So that leaves us with issue #3: client performance. Some time ago the WvW team acquired an engine programmer who is focused 100% on this issue (and he is being assisted by another engine programmer who isn’t officially on the WvW team). They’re working on some really fantastic optimizations and engine modifications which we hope will allow even min-spec clients to render all the players on a WvW map. We’ll be talking in more detail about the specific changes they’re making when things get just a little more nailed down, but I can say right now that I’m very impressed with the work they’ve done already.

So that’s where we are. Engine programmers are working their magic even now and we’re testing the networking changes that will be required. I believe that our goal of removing culling from WvW is achievable and I’m looking forward to the day that I can announce to you all that we’ve pulled it off!

Edited by Kelo, 04 January 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#133 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostKelo, on 04 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Since this is very important to the conversation at hand, Habib over at ANet recently made a post about fixing culling in WvW.

And here I thought computers and network stuff ran on pixie dust, and little hamsters running in wheels.

That being said, I think I might have a dead hamster in my computer. I don't think I fed him in awhile...

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#134 AKGeo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

Didn't read the whole thread, but I have an idea to get more people into WvW on a regular basis.

Dragon encounters.

EB has enough populace, but queueing happens anyway and it might get more people into borderlands while waiting.

Stonemist: World dragon event once per day, to shake things up. Dragon comes at random time during the day...or maybe a 3 hour window to keep it from spawning subsequently around reset on occasion. Windows might not work because everyone will port in and queue up for EB just during those hours, and those who can't get in are going to whinge. Maybe a 12 hour window? Peak times for the servers playing? Who knows.

Once this event occurs, all gates into stonemist open. All players in EB are friendly. All entrances to other towers and keeps remain shut, nobody can enter (in case spies get crafty). Portals are disabled, in case spies get REALLY crafty. Battle commences. It takes about an hour. World chest drops with precursor chance maybe at a quarter that of the Ancient karka chest. (this makes precursors easier to get, something Anet was "promising".) 10 minute countdown before gates close, all players once again turn hostile to opposing server players, with invunlerability buff until the end of the countdown. So you can either get out, go back to defending your towers/keeps, or you can battle-royale for Stonemist control. Last server standing gets the goods. The Castle Lord remains allied with the server who had control prior to the event, to give that server an advantage. He can also serve as the "general" for the encounter, giving instructions, etc.

Smaller, standard world chest dragon encounters with similar mechanics in the borderlands garrisons. Maybe Claw of jormag scale. Maybe pick a keep for it to attack, randomly.

None of these chests drop badges. They're already too easy to get, and with a royal rumble like that you're going to be getting a ton of badges anyway.

This would spice things up quite a bit. Use it as a lead-in for the next dragon we're going to face. Considering WvW is part of PvE exploration, one can claim that it's accessible for champion dragons as well.

Just a thought. It would make WvW a little more exciting, and a LOT more enticing to non-hardcore WvW'ers. And the hardcore WvW'ers can get something other than the EB puzzle chest to get their goodies. Because right now, WvW rewards are minimal at best for the time spent and the skill involved (here come the "no skill in a zerg" crowd). Which is why it needs saving in the first place.

Edited by AKGeo, 07 January 2013 - 12:15 PM.


#135 Coooturtle

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

What' wrong with WvW? Only problem I see is the server switching, which really isn't that big of a deal and will be resolved when its costs money to switch servers.

#136 DutchAres

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

Solution for a lot of problems like queues, server hopping, fighting same opponents all the time in tiers, a smaller difference in strength in the tiers:

- On every world every player who wants to do WvW needs to sign up first.
- Guilds can reserve spots for their members playing WvW.
- You sign up for the next server reset.. so not for the current.
- A WvW world has a max of 1000 signups. (number will be fine tuned)
- When a WvW world is almost at the max a new WvW world you can signup for gets open So you get a Sea of Sorrows1, Sea of Sorrows 2 etc…
- Players/Guilds signed up for a WvW world will be signed up automaticly for the weeks after that (first spots reserved), until they signup for a different World. So you will be mostly playing with the same players/guilds
- being inactive in wvw for a week would mean your automatic signup will get removed

Extra Cons:
- More worlds in the ranking , so a bigger chance you wont play the same worlds every week. And the gaps between worlds will become smaller so you get more servers with almost the same strength so more challenging battles and a lot more switching positions in the rankings.
- Because the max players counts for 24 hours/day. You will have less worlds with a large night team. If they have a large night team this would mean that they are outnumbered during the day. So a lot less night capping by large groups that play different time zones
- server hopping to top worlds wouldnt work that good anymore because they will be at their max because the reserved spots of the old players/guilds who were already on that world.

If you like this idea please respond to https://forum-en.gui...rst#post1210683 . So hopefully someone from Anet reads it too and does something with it.

Edited by DutchAres, 16 January 2013 - 09:18 AM.


#137 gance

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

imo.
stop cheating/hacking.
and bring back the orb. . .

the orb is like the most important thing in wvw because it gives you power.
so invaders are always motivated to get it while defenders are willing to sacrifice other post/towers for it.
it gives drama imo.

and even if a server managed to get 3 orbs. there is always a way to take it back, ive seen it so many times.




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