136 replies to this topic

[BRUTAL]

What can we do to save WvW?
Move everyone to the first three tiers, so we'll have competitive matches.  Thats what we can do.

[Skolops]

This is why most MMOs have a gear treadmill.  A lot of folks, especially those on these boards, may hate the idea and very much like the "grindless" system of this game, but time after time and game after game we've seen that it's this "treadmill" that keeps people playing.  The state of things now is basically what happens when only those people who want to play "for fun" and for no other reward keep logging in.

That doesn't mean, of course, that the only way for an MMO to succeed is for it to "not be fun."  The folks who enjoy a gear grind no doubt find that fun, too.  The thing is, you ultimately need a balance to try to keep as many people interested as possible, and what experience has shown is that people who don't like a gear grind will put up with it to play a game that they think is fun, but people who seek a more tangible reward will not play a game that doesn't have one just because it's otherwise fun, because they can always go and get both somewhere else.

[Vihar]

Different maps for each Tier!

[DoogerRLH]

Fix culling, downed state and anonymous no name pvp issues.  The on going balance and content stuff is a given, but at this point who cares with the big 3 design defects

[Combat Medic]

matsif, on 31 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

I don't see how this will help.  While the dungeon is up the borderlands will get swarmed by PvE players who don't want to actually do WvW, and with the queuing in place currently actual WvW players will get locked out to people just rushing the dungeon, and the dungeon will close to the first server and open to the next, recreating the process.  All its going to do is put more PvE players into WvW that aren't there to actually fight, and keep actual people who want to fight out of WvW due to the new queues it will bring up.

Sure you will get some PvE players who actually want to play the dungeon to go into WvW and fight to take objectives to open the dungeon, but as soon as it opens they will drop fighting for the dungeon.  Not to mention you'll probably get a lot of people waiting around doing nothing until their server takes enough places to open the dungeon, and some lower tier servers might never get the ability to see the dungeon, causing people to leave these servers to experience content.

There would be no queues based upon my list. Only way to see the dungeon is to fight for the server. Plain and simple, it worked for DAOC it could work here but the other components have to be in place as well. Contrary to your statement it would encourage plenty of people into the WvW area where the fights would be unavoidable.

[Straegen]

I don't think it needs to be saved but certainly could stand improvement in a variety of areas. Here are some suggestions more ideas though:

• Improved scoreboards and stats - Player, Class, Guild, etc. Most people want to be ranked. It worked great in older FPS games like quake and it would work great here.
  
• Victory conditions which include holding a fort not just taking it.
  
• Personal rewards that include skins, titles, etc for completing daily, weekly and monthly objectives
  
• Constant NPC raids on undefended targets that opposing players could join. The larger the empire the harder it would be to defend.
  
• More map variety... I assume this should go without saying.
  
• Siege weapon friendly fire. Make working siege particularly for defense all the more important.

[Impmon]

You know what the problem with WVW is ?

So many new players frothed at the mouth about WVW when the game first came out like it was the best thing there ever was.  Go read the early posts about WVW when the game was in beta & at release.  The higher up's in Anet saw all that and prob said, Ok WVW is fine don't allocate anymore man hours to that aspect of the game.

This is why we suffer now.

[Cake is Cake]

Impmon, on 01 January 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

You know what the problem with WVW is ?

So many new players frothed at the mouth about WVW when the game first came out like it was the best thing there ever was.  Go read the early posts about WVW when the game was in beta & at release.  The higher up's in Anet saw all that and prob said, Ok WVW is fine don't allocate anymore man hours to that aspect of the game.

This is why we suffer now.

Heh this is like capping an entire map and going "hey, that map is all (our color), we don't need to be there" and wondering how the enemy caps it

[Alaroxr]

ShezuTsukai, on 31 December 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Zerg warfare makes WvW boring and predictable. Asura tech is all through Orr why do we not see it in WvW?

I would propose a Zerg breaker siege/defense weapon similar to the Asuran Lighning Turret. Give it arrow cart range but better damage and unlimited targets with jump range of 100 and limited to one strike per target.

This would force Zergs to spread out and use real tactics and team work rather just beating their heads against a door for 10 minutes.

When you see a zerg, you should feel giddy. You should be thinking "I count 20.. 30... 40... 50 bags of loot!"

If you don't, then its your fault for not joining a coordinated WvW guild or starting some coordination yourself.

-----------------

"would propose a Zerg breaker siege/defense weapon similar to the Asuran Lighning Turret. Give it arrow cart range but better damage and unlimited targets with jump range of 100 and limited to one strike per target"

You could use a balista. If enemies are clumped up, you nail an unlimited number of targets with 5-7k damage at arrow cart range.

Edited by Alaroxr, 01 January 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Soulstitchmmo]

WvW will not be fixed until they fixed culling. Plain and simple. Anet chose an engine to look pretty, not gameplay. Oh, and removing all the cost from WvW. It's ridiculous that a "casual gameplay" has such a cost.

I'll check back from time to time to see if ANet ever delivers on WvW, or fixes their game engine, until then it's Planetside 2.

And I have to agree with the server resets. That's getting ridiculous. Leave the servers as is. Let the populations sort themselves out that way. WM just moved to Kaineng, now Kaineng is going to jump spots until it's at least in tier 2.

Get rid of the score board, get rid of the gold cost (use karma/supply), get rid of the culling. Get back to making a game, not making pretty award show pony, and the people will come back.

Also anet can't really be serious about their cash shop, it's cheaper to buy gold from a gold selling site and conver it to gems for cosmetics than it is to pay Anet directly.

Anet needs to stop allowing Gold conversion to Gems and then it will start making money.

[Impmon]

Based on the siegerazer addition I bet in the future you'll be escorting npc's as they do everything for you with the 3-4 other players actually in a wvw map.

[asbasb]

Zergs are bad, plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with amassing an army to take over a fortress, but if constantly running around in giant groups flipping forts all day is the only and most effective way to actually progress, wvw will never be and feel epic(as in large scale semi persistent) or to be anything else but a massive 3 team conquest game.

If that's how ANet feels WvW should play, then that's how it is.

Sorry for not actually contributing. I'm never was a big WvWer, so my opinion on how to improve it would get shot down immediately, anyway.

[Impmon]

I miss daoc where zergs only happened when someone was raiding a relic keep.  Otherwise people ran 8mans & looked down upon people who ran in zergs.  Of all the servers I've seen Vizunah Square is the biggest zergling server.

[Slashpaf]

Impmon, on 01 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I miss daoc where zergs only happened when someone was raiding a relic keep.  Otherwise people ran 8mans & looked down upon people who ran in zergs.  Of all the servers I've seen Vizunah Square is the biggest zergling server.

I don't know on what serv you played, but DAoC was (and is still is) a zerg game. Only a minority of guilds/players were playing 8man style.

[Soulstitchmmo]

The biggest difference between Planetside 2 and WvW so far? The complete lack of NPC and the complete dependance on NPC.

In one game small units can flip anything that's not protected.

In the other it's mostly impossible with all the NPC alerts.

Remove the gold cost of upgrading, remove the gold cost of repairing, Give bonuses based on what you own and how much. Make terrtiory control feel like progression. Currently each objective is too insulated from the grand scheme of things. Also remove all NPC. Every single objective NPC. Keep the flavor NPC's but each objective needs to be protected by people, not npcs.

The defneses need to be beefed to protect the investment of the players. When you remove the costs, you can remove the barriers and allow smaller groups to be more effective overall so there isn't a need to run in a large group... just to put down siege weapons to take a keep.   


Then they just need to replace the entire game engine so they can have a decent sized map instead of a map barely the size of Alterac Valley, and to avoid culling.

Edited by Soulstitchmmo, 01 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[Killminusnine]

They were aiming for DAoC and they missed the mark by a mile.  There's nothing that can save WvW now and all the guilds that were here to make WvW a success are just waiting for the next game to jump to.

#sorryforthebadnews

[Millimidget]

Alaroxr, on 01 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

When you see a zerg, you should feel giddy. You should be thinking "I count 20.. 30... 40... 50 bags of loot!"

When you see a zerg, it's already too late, because they don't render until they're right on top of you (and we all know that dying the midst of the zerg instantly resolves the culling problem).

Killminusnine, on 01 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

They were aiming for DAoC and they missed the mark by a mile.

They certainly missed DAoC by a mile, but I think their pattern was WAR. They certainly delivered far superior siege warfare to what WAR offered, but without the unifying goal of city sieges to keep players interested it feels like there's no purpose to WvW.

Personally, I don't think the DAoC system of permanent matches would work here, because they'd need to implement some sizable amount of content to give WvW purpose. They'd be better served loosening the rating system up some, and moving back towards shorter matches. I'd even go so far as to try to mimic the professional sports, with dozens of relatively short matches constituting a "season," and some sort of playoffs capping every season.

Edited by Millimidget, 01 January 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[fatrodmc]

For me WvW is the real guild wars, and I wish it was the main part of the game. I'm actually sick of the maps though, and would like to see it on a much larger scale.

It would never happen but I wish WvW was actually on the PvE map. Or WvW was on on a single, much larger map than it currently is. The wvw world just seems so small to me.

It could still be broken up by maps/zones and have queues too, but you could go much further abroad and fight different people at will.

[Impmon]

Slashpaf, on 01 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

I don't know on what serv you played, but DAoC was (and is still is) a zerg game. Only a minority of guilds/players were playing 8man style.

Wasn't like that when I played.  I was on lancelot.  Everyone made fun of albion for being the alb warder zerg.  People also 8man'd because you got more realm points which meant faster realm rank gain.  You actually had incentive to pvp  

[Soulstitchmmo]

At this point there is nothing players can do. It's up to the developers to admit their mistakes, and listen to people with more experience than them.

Of course Anet isn't that kind of developer, and they know their engine can't support the promises they made. The best you can do is make the best of the WvW, and not take it seriously at all.

[omar316]

Impmon, on 02 January 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Wasn't like that when I played.  I was on lancelot.  Everyone made fun of albion for being the alb warder zerg.  People also 8man'd because you got more realm points which meant faster realm rank gain.  You actually had incentive to pvp  

Some one start a petition to hire this fool to fix Anet's rvr shit. Please.

Warhammer's PvP wasn't bad by any stretch. While it blatantly promoted Zerg tactics, 6 mans still destroyed zergs.
A 6 man still had had a glimmer of chance to beat and deconstruct a full 30 men bulldozer.

I miss Kardrin Valley and Praag.

Hell a 24 man can wipe a freaking filled instance of a full 50 man seige.

This crap WvW shit is a joke.
And culling is really not the worst problem here. There is nothing to cull in NSP.

Edited by omar316, 02 January 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Serris]

Antithesis, on 29 December 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

I have to disagree here. No company invests the time and resources to include another completely ( and standalone ) version of group pvp with the thoughts of "if someone plays a couple months then that was a good investment".

It just hasn't been as thought out as it could have been. If they want the mode to continue they have to provide incentives for long term play as has been mentioned. Simple really. Dont and then the money and time spent was wasted and no one will play.

BTW I think that once a tower/keep/castle is taken then all dead former occupiers should be automatically respawned. The thief and dead mes trick is really getting old.

lots of people leave, they have to spend less on server resources.

OP: i want Anet to look at planetside 2, then start copying everything. EVERYTHING.
deployable spawnpoints? * yes, give defenders a reason to sally out and destroy the deployable spawnpoint.
multiple cap points located pretty far apart? forcing the zerg to at least split up a little.

and my biggest buttclencher: fix siegeweapons so people actually fear them. now nobody cares they get hit by an arrow cart.

[Serris]

Skolops, on 31 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

This is why most MMOs have a gear treadmill.  A lot of folks, especially those on these boards, may hate the idea and very much like the "grindless" system of this game, but time after time and game after game we've seen that it's this "treadmill" that keeps people playing.  The state of things now is basically what happens when only those people who want to play "for fun" and for no other reward keep logging in.

That doesn't mean, of course, that the only way for an MMO to succeed is for it to "not be fun."  The folks who enjoy a gear grind no doubt find that fun, too.  The thing is, you ultimately need a balance to try to keep as many people interested as possible, and what experience has shown is that people who don't like a gear grind will put up with it to play a game that they think is fun, but people who seek a more tangible reward will not play a game that doesn't have one just because it's otherwise fun, because they can always go and get both somewhere else.

dude, the gear threadmill thingy? that's where a company releases a few new dungeons every month and you have to do them to keep having the strongest gear in the game.
it has nothing to do with earning experience, ranking up or getting some kind of recognition/unlocks.

[asbasb]

Serris, on 02 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

OP: i want Anet to look at planetside 2, then start copying everything. EVERYTHING.
deployable spawnpoints? * yes

It's not like they haven't thought about that. In the game files, there is a description of a guild upgrade or item called "Guild Portal" or something to that extent, which said that a guild leader could open a portal anywhere through which guild members could directly teleport to his position.

[lioka qiao]

Grumpdogg, on 30 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'd pay $60 for 4 new WvW maps...

I would too..  heck i already paid $100 to get a commander tag (it's kind of worth it to me).

[duran3d]

- Bigger maps to encourage roaming.

- WvW rewards in the form of ranks, skills and/or new armor styles.

- Commanders should be able to add or kick people from his squad.

- Only commander messages should appear in a different colour in the map chat.

- Killing info spam in the combat tab.


- Make the matchups two-week long.

Oh, and I'm against some of the proposals in this thread:

- No orbs (removing them was a good decision)

- No server merging.

- No communication between enemy players (that easily leads to cheating).

Otherwise the WvW in this game is quite fine. Second best siegefare so far (after DAoC). Keep the good job.

[Serris]

asbasb, on 02 January 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

It's not like they haven't thought about that. In the game files, there is a description of a guild upgrade or item called "Guild Portal" or something to that extent, which said that a guild leader could open a portal anywhere through which guild members could directly teleport to his position.

no, not just the deployable spawn. EVERYTHING
respawning in castles? yes, this gives the feeling you're fighting a castle filled with defenders.
one commander leading multiple squads, each with their own easily identifiable waypoint? yes, break up that zerg!

[Soulstitchmmo]

Serris, on 02 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

no, not just the deployable spawn. EVERYTHING
respawning in castles? yes, this gives the feeling you're fighting a castle filled with defenders.
one commander leading multiple squads, each with their own easily identifiable waypoint? yes, break up that zerg!

Yeah. The more they make WvW like PS2, the more awesome it will be. PS2 is the new standard for MMO World PvP

[Ngamok]

borovnica, on 28 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

That kinda defeats the WvW purpose, doesn't it

TBH what is WvWvW?  Some servers have lost all their WvW crowd to other servers and those servers have pretty much dropped from first to last.  My server has steadily lost people and now losing even more while some servers are gaining some from those leaving.  If every single server had the exact same population and coverage, then yes, being first in WvWvW does mean something.  But it doesn't.  All it has is numbers and coverage strengths and weaknesses.  So yes, queueing up as three sides does make sense in a way.

Or we could just keep free tansfers open forever so people can just keep piling onto whatever server they feel will hold their interest or just cause others to quit because they don't like what is happening to their server.  Or we can just merge servers and rework the tiers.

[Straegen]

GW2 will likely never live up to a game like P2. Planetside is solely focused on its PvP. GW2 serves multiple masters while offering PvP. Kind of like comparing a steak at a seafood restaurant to one from Bones or other steak focused eateries.

That said there will probably be WvW players for as long as GW2 is viable simply because it is fun and a nice extension to the game. However they really need to fix culling... every time I get hammered by the effect it pisses me off just a bit more.