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GW2 Lacks Progression - My Solutions


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#1 Nightblaze1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

I posted this on the main forums. I thought I should post it here too just to see what you guys think. =)

GW2 is the best MMO I have ever played. It is visually stunning, has amazing gameplay, includes great and diverse story elements and is all around a lot of fun. However, I didn't create this topic to discuss the things that make GW2 a great game, as these things cannot be improved upon. I wanted to talk about the progression in GW2 from level 1 - 80, or rather lack thereof. Like the majority of players, I don't care about "endgame" (beyond level 80) I am only talking specifically about levelling from 1 - 80.

In this topic, I am going to be talking about the two main forms of progression in GW2, skill progression and cosmetic progression. Keep in mind, GW2 isn't about power, so in no way am I referring to players acquiring more power from gear; but I will talk about the progression of power for a player, in terms of skills, from level 1 - 80.

Cosmetic Progression:

GW2 was built on the principle that players would not differ in gear power to induce a gear grind. This known, one would think than, that the game would focus much more on cosmetic progression; giving players a huge array of different and unique looking apparel and weapons to choose from. However, this is clearly not the case.

Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few different looking pieces of gear around in the game. However, this is about progression, and when you find that a level 1 piece of gear aesthetics can also be seen at level 80, you notice something isn't right. A large amount of the gear you use from level 1 - 80 has the same old basic default skin, with only a few pieces of gear found while levelling, that look different. If it wasn't for transmutation stones, the feeling of progression of cosmetic gear would go from barely noticeable to non-existent.

It is very disheartening to see that the cosmetics of the gear at level 1 are still present as you level up throughout the game. No other game that I know of, has such a mediocre cosmetic system where dull and generic basic gear is still present at higher levels. From level 1-80, from memory, I have only found approximately 10 different looking gear while questing and levelling up. But don't be mistaken, these differing pieces are drowned out by the same old looking gear you see time and time again.

Skill Progression:

I have not had much experience with GW1, but from what I have heard, it seemed to include many different class builds and skill combinations for characters to choose from, even if pigeon-holed builds still persisted. In GW2, by the time you have hit level 20, you've essentially experienced 90% of the skills that you will be using for the next 60 levels, beside the very few skills that you gain through skill points. There is no mix and matching with weapon skills, you cannot customise your own build, you get a weapon with 2, 3 or 5 skills and that's it. For the next 60 levels you are using the same old skills over and over. If it wasn't for the amazingly fun gameplay, this would not have been able to be ignored.

You are given no stat points in GW2 to make your character unique and stand out and you are stuck with a very restrictive set of skills from each weapon. Although you can begin to gain some differentiation as you polish the very limited amount of builds you can experiment with beyond level 80, it still isn't enough and the progression from 1-80 becomes very monotonous.

On another note, the power progression within this game is also barely noticeable. At level 1 you feel almost as powerful as you do at level 80. Now, I know that this has been designed on purpose to facilitate the up-levelling and down-levelling system, but this restriction of feeling powerful really emphasises the lack of progression in the skill system even more.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now it is not enough for me to just lay out the problems, which many of you may already know, so I will go a step further and provide some solutions that I believe can remedy this lack of progression.

Cosmetic Progression Solution:

This one is pretty simple. Give us more cosmetic options while levelling, reduce the rarity of different looking gear while you level to allow for a better feel of progression in terms of looks. I propose a system much like Diablo 3. Have cosmetics be level specific. Essentially, you would have a certain tier of cosmetic gear from levels 1-10, another tier for levels 11-20, another tier for levels 21-30, and so on. This will remove the fact that level 1 looking gear is still obtainable at higher levels, and I believe will drastically improve the feeling of progression in the game.

Skill Progression Solution:

This one is more complex and would be harder to implement. Simply allow for more skills per weapon. Instead of the usual 2,3 or 5 skills acquired with each weapon, give us the opportunity to gain weapon levels as we use specific weapons. Each weapon level we gain, we can then put choose an extra skill to use for that weapon that will take over one of the current skill slots. For example, there are 1-20 levels for a two-handed sword. At level 1, the player has the 5 "default" skills available for that weapon. There are say 5 different skills for each skill slot for that weapon, making 25 different skills for that weapon + the 5 "default" ones. At level 2 of that weapon, the player can choose one of the 25 other skills to gain access to, whether it be an auto-attack skill, a slot 2 skill, a slot 3 skill, up to a slot 5 skill.

This system will give players customisable builds far beyond what is currently available. No two players will be alike, as build diversity for each weapon would be enormous. For a two-handed weapon it would be 30 skills times 5 slots (as slot 2 skills cannot go into slot 1 and vice versa, this is the same for all the slots). One-handed weapons will have 18 skills times 3 slots. Off-hand weapons will have 12 skills times 2 slots.

However, this system will be hard to implement, as managing the balancing of all these skills would be very difficult. If a class can use 5 different weapons, that would be a lot of skills that would have to be balanced, now times that with the 8 classes in the game. As for the "power" progression, if this system is implemented, well who the hell cares about that lol, all these options would keep players captivated without even thinking about not feeling much more powerful than they did at level 1! =)

TL;DR - Read it, it involves you. =)

Thank you for reading that large wall of text, please feel free to discuss what I have typed.

Edited by unraveled, 29 December 2012 - 03:55 AM.
Fixed title and moved to PV.


#2 Broeseph

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

the skill progression solution sounds interesting

but i feel like they wont completely revamp the skill system.. we can always hope though!

#3 Nightblaze1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:19 AM

It would be a major stretch, but I am not out of hope yet. Just look at the massive amounts of free content they keep giving us. I wouldn't put it past Anet to deliver something of this proportions. =)

#4 Krazzar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

I see you haven't discovered runes, sigils, and traits yet and don't pay attention to gear stat types. That's ok, just keep playing the game.

#5 Nightblaze1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:49 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

I see you haven't discovered runes, sigils, and traits yet and don't pay attention to gear stat types. That's ok, just keep playing the game.

You clearly have not read anything I have posted. Runes and Sigils basically add stats (that make very minor differences btw), and have nothing to do with cosmetics or the fact that skills are very limited. On top of that, runes and sigils don't really start coming into affect when you have hit level 80 and start to polish your build. I clearly stated that I am focusing on what the majority of players care about, and that is the experience from level 1 - 80, not afterwards.

As for you mentioning traits. Besides letting you choose what weapon is best, they hardly allow you to customize a build, they just allow you to chose a pre-existing build. Also, again, traits only really start taking affect at the later levels, 60 + and beyond.

Edited by Nightblaze1, 29 December 2012 - 05:51 AM.


#6 Krazzar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

You clearly have not read anything I have posted. Runes and Sigils basically add stats (that make very minor differences btw), and have nothing to do with cosmetics or the fact that skills are very limited. On top of that, runes and sigils don't really start coming into affect when you have hit level 80 and start to polish your build. I clearly stated that I am focusing on what the majority of players care about, and that is the experience from level 1 - 80, not afterwards.

As for you mentioning traits. Besides letting you choose what weapon is best, they hardly allow you to customize a build, they just allow you to chose a pre-existing build. Also, again, traits only really start taking affect at the later levels, 60 + and beyond.

Keep playing, you might just figure it out.

Runes add functionality and not just stats, perhaps you should research some of the runes out there that add more than just one stat. Using a different rune and different sigils would make my current warrior build half as effective. Compare a rune of sactuary to a rune of the soldier and try to tell me they differ only on the type of stats given. Level 80 is where the game starts if you want to consider builds, before that point you don't have a complete build to begin with. Most players will spend most of their time at level 80 and that is how the game is designed. I would like to see where you get your data on "the majority of players", though, because the general population reports definitely do not agree with you, most players are sticking to level 80 characters.

And picking 8 skills isn't choosing a pre-exiting build? If you're creating a coherent and effective build in GW1 you are just picking from a handful of pre-existing builds, that is functionally identical to traits, except that traits for a single weapon have more interactions than an entire build in GW1. It's the same case in WoW or AoC or even TSW, there are a set number of coherent builds given the capabilities of players and mechanics of the game.  Then you have weapon swaps and the skill combos in GW2 that can result and the interactions those cause, and the rest of the bar as well. The problem is the system can be as complex as you want depending on how deep you want to go, apparently many people only scratch the surface.

Your argument is simple; we shouldn't have to progress to level 80 to progress, and that is fundamentally flawed because it introduces unnecessary complexity that leads to imbalance for no gain. As you progress you are supposed to be learning more and more about making a coherent build, which is why everything isn't given right away and there are so many parts to it already adding more options per category may not actually be a good idea. There is obviously progression and actual choice in GW2 compared to GW1. The range of builds in GW2 is far broader than GW1, but it does require some thinking so I can see how many would not be able to immediately understand it.  I would suggest you actually play GW1 to understand "choice" and the meaning of the word "imbalance". More is not necessarily better, especially when people are apparently ignoring what they already have.

Edited by Krazzar, 29 December 2012 - 06:13 AM.


#7 Afyael

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Keep playing, you might just figure it out.

Runes add functionality and not just stats, perhaps you should research some of the runes out there that add more than just one stat. Using a different rune and different sigils would make my current warrior build half as effective. Compare a rune of sactuary to a rune of the soldier and try to tell me they differ only on the type of stats given. Level 80 is where the game starts if you want to consider builds, before that point you don't have a complete build to begin with. Most players will spend most of their time at level 80 and that is how the game is designed. I would like to see where you get your data on "the majority of players", though, because the general population reports definitely do not agree with you, most players are sticking to level 80 characters.

And picking 8 skills isn't choosing a pre-exiting build? If you're creating a coherent and effective build in GW1 you are just picking from a handful of pre-existing builds, that is functionally identical to traits, except that traits for a single weapon have more interactions than an entire build in GW1. It's the same case in WoW or AoC or even TSW, there are a set number of coherent builds given the capabilities of players and mechanics of the game.  Then you have weapon swaps and the skill combos in GW2 that can result and the interactions those cause, and the rest of the bar as well. The problem is the system can be as complex as you want depending on how deep you want to go, apparently many people only scratch the surface.

Your argument is simple; we shouldn't have to progress to level 80 to progress, and that is fundamentally flawed because it introduces unnecessary complexity that leads to imbalance for no gain. As you progress you are supposed to be learning more and more about making a coherent build, which is why everything isn't given right away and there are so many parts to it already adding more options per category may not actually be a good idea. There is obviously progression and actual choice in GW2 compared to GW1. The range of builds in GW2 is far broader than GW1, but it does require some thinking so I can see how many would not be able to immediately understand it.  I would suggest you actually play GW1 to understand "choice" and the meaning of the word "imbalance". More is not necessarily better, especially when people are apparently ignoring what they already have.

Stop being so narrow minded. Some people like to create alts and level. The game needs more skill progression, when levelling and at the level cap. I thought Arena Net said the whole game is endgame, not just just at max level which is what you're suggesting. There is far less customization in this game compared to its predecessor. A lot of traits and skills in this game are incredibly broken (see ranger) and are in need a rework since unlike in Guild Wars 1 there aren't a large number of skills to compensate. For example as a Ranger if you want to use a shortbow you spend most of your time spamming 1 button because all of the other skills are situational.

Guild Wars 2 is already a good game but it would be so much better if Arena Net spent less time making tonics and adding superficial updates to the game, instead focusing more on skill balancing and adding more skills to the game so players have a greater variety to choose from. If you want changes for the better you need to let the developers know otherwise they will assume things are fine because people like you are so readily accepting.

#8 Gilles VI

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

You clearly have not read anything I have posted. Runes and Sigils basically add stats (that make very minor differences btw), and have nothing to do with cosmetics or the fact that skills are very limited. On top of that, runes and sigils don't really start coming into affect when you have hit level 80 and start to polish your build. I clearly stated that I am focusing on what the majority of players care about, and that is the experience from level 1 - 80, not afterwards.

As for you mentioning traits. Besides letting you choose what weapon is best, they hardly allow you to customize a build, they just allow you to chose a pre-existing build. Also, again, traits only really start taking affect at the later levels, 60 + and beyond.

My guardian with soldier armor with soldier runes and wielding a mace/shield, and my guardian in berserker armor with sword/torch would like to have a word.
Minor differences is a huge understatement.

I actually have difficulty deciding which build I will use for my guardian.
Right now I'm full tanky with shout support.
But I think this is selfish, I want to heal people, so maybe I should go cleric armor for more healing power, and bring other runes for longer boon duration.
Or maybe I should bring some more damage and bring some precision so my sword hits harder.
Or I could go full for boons and bring my hammer so my team has perma protection.

Choices, choices, it's hard!

#9 Krazzar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostAfyael, on 29 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Stop being so narrow minded. Some people like to create alts and level. The game needs more skill progression, when levelling and at the level cap. I thought Arena Net said the whole game is endgame, not just just at max level which is what you're suggesting. There is far less customization in this game compared to its predecessor. A lot of traits and skills in this game are incredibly broken (see ranger) and are in need a rework since unlike in Guild Wars 1 there aren't a large number of skills to compensate. For example as a Ranger if you want to use a shortbow you spend most of your time spamming 1 button because all of the other skills are situational.

Guild Wars 2 is already a good game but it would be so much better if Arena Net spent less time making tonics and adding superficial updates to the game, instead focusing more on skill balancing and adding more skills to the game so players have a greater variety to choose from. If you want changes for the better you need to let the developers know otherwise they will assume things are fine because people like you are so readily accepting.

Unfortunately you are using the misinterpretation of the quote. "Everything is endgame" does not mean you have everything at level 2, not by a long shot, just that you will be doing the same kinds of things at level 2 as you do at level 80, that the game will not be radically different at level 80. In games like WoW you have a period of leveling where you do open questing and mostly play alone in an open world and then once you are max level you do the polar opposite, group instanced static content. In addition I did not say the game started at level 80, I said,

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Level 80 is where the game starts if you want to consider builds, before that point you don't have a complete build to begin with.
Complexity and multiple variables seem to be mostly an enigma to some, which would explain this thread and some opinions.

Some traits are broken because there are so many interactions, and now you're asking for exponentially more interactions. It's not rocket science. Those imbalances mean major loopholes and reactive balancing to protect the economy, which has already been damaging to the game, see Caudecus Manor.  

Why should they add more when people like you don't even understand or take advantage of what is already there?  I'm expecting updates and more skills, traits, and progression, but not for level 1-79 and definitely not anything like the OP. More importantly I'm expecting those added abilities to be balanced and not ruin the areas I like to play in because of exploits due to imbalance or objectively damage my preferred playstyles as a stopgap for profession-based imbalance that leads to exploits while they try to find a complex long-term solution that will most likely damage other professions for a period, creating a cycle of poor balancing and lead to an out of control state of balance. Think things through for a second, maybe it'll help you understand the depth of the game as it is now.

Edited by Krazzar, 29 December 2012 - 09:07 AM.


#10 Gilles VI

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

View PostAfyael, on 29 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Guild Wars 2 is already a good game but it would be so much better if Arena Net spent less time making tonics and adding superficial updates to the game, instead focusing more on skill balancing and adding more skills to the game so players have a greater variety to choose from. If you want changes for the better you need to let the developers know otherwise they will assume things are fine because people like you are so readily accepting.

I hate to say it, but 20 people working on fixing a trait is not going to work..
For some tasks productivity rises exponentially when doubling amount of workers on it, but for fixing minor bugs like that, it's just a waste of human resources.

#11 Mortifer

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:14 AM

Your solution is pretty much what this game needs, but I dare to say that they won't implement any of these two systems.

#12 Krazzar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:39 AM

I didn't touch cosmetics yet because the "suggestion" is actually how it currently works. Currently there are 46 armors per armor class in GW2. In GW1 there are less than 30 armors total across all expansions. Pretty good for having 10 models for each armor (5 races male and female).

Again, I'd like to see some kind of source that gear would not differ in stats, the power plateau is what they always talked about, which has been true. We knew there would be 80 levels of gear since 2009. As you progress through the game more armors become available through crafting, karma merchants in different zones, dungeons that become available, the story, and zone-specific styles. Quite literally the definition of progression. If you don't progress you can't get those armors. Because of this certain armors are level-specific, unless you can manage to complete a level 60 dungeon many times before hitting level 60, which isn't likely. Transmutation stones make the lower-level gear stats irrelevant so you can have any look you want from lower level armors.

Edited by Krazzar, 29 December 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#13 Nightblaze1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

I didn't touch cosmetics yet because the "suggestion" is actually how it currently works.

That's funny, I must have been imagining it when I kept seeing level 1 cosmetic gear at every level including level 80.


View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Again, I'd like to see some kind of source that gear would not differ in stats, the power plateau is what they always talked about, which has been true.

Sorry, what? Source? When did I say anything about gear differing in stats?

#14 Gilles VI

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

That's funny, I must have been imagining it when I kept seeing level 1 cosmetic gear at every level including level 80.


Fact that one armor set keeps popping up as a very trashy drop doesn't change the fact there is alot of other progression..
Crafting armor has levels tied to them, same with karma armor, same with dungeon armor, same with cultural armor.

All of those are only available after a specific level.
And then again, transmutation stones make it even easier to look how you want.

Aside from this, I agree with you there should be more armor skins.

#15 Marc1k1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

I feel I progressed enough cosmetically.

When it came to skills I felt that I did stop needing to mess with my skills for a long time but as soon as I hit level 80 I was starting to mess around with my traits and slot skills a lot more, as well as the weapon I enjoyed using the most and liked the abilities of the most.

Maybe its because I play an Elementalist and the four attunements help with that but I would disagree because I only really use fire and water, occasionally the other two for CC and such, either way I feel like I had a lot of choice when it came to spec'ing my character and messing around with the traits.

I understand your mostly talking about the levelling skill progression and I like the idea you had of weapon skill levelling adding new abilities with said weapon and frankly I think they should implement that but not for any lack of 'fun' while levelling, I had a good time levelling without said system.

#16 Nightblaze1

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 29 December 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Fact that one armor set keeps popping up as a very trashy drop doesn't change the fact there is alot of other progression..

But that's the thing, the level 1 cosmetic gear wasn't trashy at all, sometimes they were equal in stats with better looking items and sometimes improvements. I'm saying that transmutation stones should have to be the only way to improve the look of your gear. Without them, countless of times while levelling up I would have low level cosmetic item in my higher levels. It should not be this way.

#17 Krazzar

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

That's funny, I must have been imagining it when I kept seeing level 1 cosmetic gear at every level including level 80.

There are 46 armors per armor class in GW2. Just because everyone picks the merchant armor doesn't mean it's the only one availible, but I have not, nor has anyone I've talked to, seen everyone wearing one armor set.  Sounds like you were just following a pack of bots.

#18 Voltar

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:05 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Complexity and multiple variables seem to be mostly an enigma to some, which would explain this thread and some opinions.

Nah, bro.  Just slap on your 5 signets and hold down 'W'.

If we want to talk about things Anet could've done better, #1 would be compromises to their concept.  In an effort to make the newer concepts in the game friendly to people who've only known 1 or 2 MMOs, they made it resemble those games too much (cutting out 95% of the hearts would be a good start).  Because people see something familiar, they recognize it as something else and naturally create expectations that it behave as such.  Most posts about progression, endgame and "the game's over at level 30" fall into this category.

edit: as an example, I finally finished my ranger build (my main I'd been playing since beta) in GW1 a couple patches after EotN came out.  That game had even less "progression" than this one.

None of my 5 most visually complete characters are wearing anything I'd call lvl1 cosmetic gear.  http://imgur.com/a/FNfi9

Edited by Voltar, 30 December 2012 - 05:10 AM.


#19 Nightblaze1

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

View PostKrazzar, on 29 December 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

There are 46 armors per armor class in GW2. Just because everyone picks the merchant armor doesn't mean it's the only one availible, but I have not, nor has anyone I've talked to, seen everyone wearing one armor set.  Sounds like you were just following a pack of bots.

I honestly don't understand why you are so against having more variety in cosmetic gear. You don't even admit that level 1 gear is present throughout levelling. Are you so blind that you cannot see any faults in the game? GW2 is clearly lacking in the progression point compared to any other MMO on the market. What is so wrong with wanting to improve that and make GW2 into an even better game than it is. My solutions only improve the game, there is nothing bad about wanting to have more skills and more cosmetic gear in the game.

#20 Arewn

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

It is very disheartening to see that the cosmetics of the gear at level 1 are still present as you level up throughout the game. No other game that I know of, has such a mediocre cosmetic system where dull and generic basic gear is still present at higher levels. From level 1-80, from memory, I have only found approximately 10 different looking gear while questing and levelling up. But don't be mistaken, these differing pieces are drowned out by the same old looking gear you see time and time again.

Don't you think there's something a little off with this idea... If the game is focused around cosmetic upgrades, you would EXPECT the basic leveling gear to retain the basic looks from start to finish, not be disheartened by it. If you're leveling up and getting cooler and cooler gear as you go, what's left for you to aim for in the rest of the progression scheme?

For skill progression: the whole idea behind the game is that you can do as much of the game as possible when ever you want, they didn't want to change your experience when you hit level cap or make unnecessary restrictions based on arbitrary concepts of 'progression'. Skills are included in that, they wanted you're character's skill load out to be complete early on so that you feel complete as you level.
While you're suggestion for improving skill progression is cool, it would destroy the point of the skill system. The whole point of the weapon sets with locked in skills was to facilitate balance, and the utility skills are there to differentiate your load out from others, while traits further customize that.

I think you're looking at skill progression in this game all wrong.

#21 Krazzar

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:58 AM

View PostVoltar, on 30 December 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

Spoiler

You can't even attack using your suggested controls.

View PostNightblaze1, on 30 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

I honestly don't understand why you are so against having more variety in cosmetic gear. You don't even admit that level 1 gear is present throughout levelling. Are you so blind that you cannot see any faults in the game? GW2 is clearly lacking in the progression point compared to any other MMO on the market. What is so wrong with wanting to improve that and make GW2 into an even better game than it is. My solutions only improve the game, there is nothing bad about wanting to have more skills and more cosmetic gear in the game.

You obviously don't understand what is available in the game so you have no place trying to make suggestions. Sorry, but this thread is just misguided and stupid. We all know they will add armors in the future, well, at least those of us that can think.

#22 mazut

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:58 PM

I'm disapointed with cosmetic gear. There is lack of variety in many of the pieces (gloves, light/medium leg pieces, even boots...) Also many of them clip and not just a little which prevent me to mix sets... very disapointing.
So far only Heavy gear looks decent and has the variety...
/sad

Edited by mazut, 31 December 2012 - 12:58 PM.


#23 Nightblaze1

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:54 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 31 December 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

You obviously don't understand what is available in the game so you have no place trying to make suggestions. Sorry, but this thread is just misguided and stupid. We all know they will add armors in the future, well, at least those of us that can think.

Ah, down to insults I see. Although each one of your posts had them, though, they were more subtle. I won't bother arguing with you any more. You cannot win an argument with ignorant people. =(

#24 Marc1k1

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:10 AM

View PostNightblaze1, on 01 January 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

Ah, down to insults I see. Although each one of your posts had them, though, they were more subtle. I won't bother arguing with you any more. You cannot win an argument with ignorant people. =(

As much as I disagree with using insults while trying to put a point across (as it basically just pisses the other person off and goes no-where) I have to say that your both entitled to your own very subjective opinions on this matter and frankly I don't see it being something ArenaNet will focus to heavily on, aside from of course adding a few new armour sets in with dungeons and so on but there we go, I could be totally wrong about that for all we know!

Also... Happy New Year!

#25 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

GW2 isn't a good enough PvP game to make PvE suffer the monotony of limited skill bars. With that in mind, I am absolutely for having potentially even less balance by introducing more skills.
As for more pretty, while I absolutely want more variety, I think the game right now is too poorly designed to simply slap more skins onto it. The game needs a power plateau that is easier to reach and then have tons of cosmetic progression on top of it. Mixing vanity progression with the stat grind would simply be a good cash shop addition instead of a good game addition.

#26 DocHolliday

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

OP, I really like your ideas. The lack of skill variety has been a huge disappointment for me from day one, coming from GW, and the fact that I can have all the weapon skills unlocked by level 2-5 is sad. It's also sad that you simply unlock all utility and elite skills with skill points, rather than go hunting for them either from obscure skill trainers or elite monsters.

#27 JHCinSC

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

I don't have an issue with the cosmetics although i find most of them blah.  The improvement in skill progression I do agree with as I find the weapon based skills to be poor.  It would be better if you could swap to more weapon sets like in GW1.  I use  LB/Short bows for my ranger and would love the ability to swap to a LS/warhorn combo.  Not being able to swap weapons in combat is very limiting.  Using the OP's idea to expand the skills tied to weapons would be helpful in lieu of swapping to other weapon sets.

#28 Horu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:57 AM

View PostNightblaze1, on 29 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

You clearly have not read anything I have posted. Runes and Sigils basically add stats (that make very minor differences btw), and have nothing to do with cosmetics or the fact that skills are very limited. On top of that, runes and sigils don't really start coming into affect when you have hit level 80 and start to polish your build. I clearly stated that I am focusing on what the majority of players care about, and that is the experience from level 1 - 80, not afterwards.

As for you mentioning traits. Besides letting you choose what weapon is best, they hardly allow you to customize a build, they just allow you to chose a pre-existing build. Also, again, traits only really start taking affect at the later levels, 60 + and beyond.

I agree with you friend.

And your suggestion is a very good improvement to the gameplay as I've haerd many friends of mine saying that the game feels kinda repetitive once you've got all the skills from said weapon.

I'd add something thou.
The possibility to get some weapon combination specific skills to swap to. like the Dual Dagger for Thieves. You hardly hit with both daggers at the same time. So, at level 1 dual daggers would have the basic skill layout, but at, say, level 3 you would be able to change your auto attack, if you want, to an actual dual wield attack that hits with both hands, as it should be done to Dual pistols too,.

I have my asura engi and I was really thrilled on going dual pistols with it, but not being able to actually fire both during auto-attack, hitting faster with less precision or less crit rates maybe... Is something that got me going with my rifle... And since engineers have a very lack of possible weapon types to equip (If you ignore flamethrowers and such, that are OBVIOUSLY an engineer like stuff).

Edited by Horu, 30 January 2013 - 02:26 AM.





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