73 replies to this topic

[Hurricane]

Before yellows became 30 silver a pop I was one of those flippers of pre-cursors.
I tryed getting my Kudzu Bow with little luck so I went all in and bought up around 300 combos worth of yellow bows.
I ended up getting 2x Kudzu. I then spent half my gold buying up t6 mats the other half I looked at what was making the most money in buy orders (axe,staff,GS,dagger, shortbow) I looked at how much if I failed and ended up getting a exotic that wasnt a precursor if I could make my money back and those weapons made money back all but the GS anyways.
Needless to so I made 2x The Legend(one went to my wife who is about done),1x Frostfang,2x Kudzu of Rage, 1x Rage (spear gun my second legendary Im finishing). I never hit a SB,or Dagger. I hit the Axe in 3 trys of Axes, but all said in done between all my tries of all the precursors its around 300 combos per. This like all things is a average like knowing that the mystic forge gives exotics out 20% of the time but u can fail 15 times in a row then see 3 exotics in a row.
Dont give up u may go for it one day and hit 2.

They dont need to change its drop rate. Part of why any of us subject ourselves to the grind that is a legendary is because not many will ever do so, fewer will actually finish. I have my finished Kudzu and 50% of the way towards Frenzy on my Ranger.

Money is easy what like the OP said isnt is those stupid clovers..... The worse grind in a legendary is the clovers.

GL to those trying to get their weapons complete.

[Daesu]

Shatteredz, on 31 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

How is gold being sucked into it?
You buy the rare's from other people, those get your moneyz.

You lose the opportunity cost of selling it to the TP instead of using it in the MF.  For that matter, you probably wont have needed to buy the rare if not for the MF RNG, thus saving you the gold to do something else instead.

It is a gold sink.

Edited by Daesu, 31 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[stormofstatic]

Hurricane, on 31 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Before yellows became 30 silver a pop I was one of those flippers of pre-cursors.
I tryed getting my Kudzu Bow with little luck so I went all in and bought up around 300 combos worth of yellow bows.
I ended up getting 2x Kudzu. I then spent half my gold buying up t6 mats the other half I looked at what was making the most money in buy orders (axe,staff,GS,dagger, shortbow) I looked at how much if I failed and ended up getting a exotic that wasnt a precursor if I could make my money back and those weapons made money back all but the GS anyways.
Needless to so I made 2x The Legend(one went to my wife who is about done),1x Frostfang,2x Kudzu of Rage, 1x Rage (spear gun my second legendary Im finishing). I never hit a SB,or Dagger. I hit the Axe in 3 trys of Axes, but all said in done between all my tries of all the precursors its around 300 combos per. This like all things is a average like knowing that the mystic forge gives exotics out 20% of the time but u can fail 15 times in a row then see 3 exotics in a row.
Dont give up u may go for it one day and hit 2.

They dont need to change its drop rate. Part of why any of us subject ourselves to the grind that is a legendary is because not many will ever do so, fewer will actually finish. I have my finished Kudzu and 50% of the way towards Frenzy on my Ranger.

Money is easy what like the OP said isnt is those stupid clovers..... The worse grind in a legendary is the clovers.

GL to those trying to get their weapons complete.

wow that rng sounds like so much fun, just 1 thing as the game gets on it costs more to get a legendary so the early players/exploited has an advange anet will prob just hand out the next legendary as no way a casual player will get one.

i dont mind a grind but DR and RNG for loot just saps farming apeal away. as somone on the offical forums posted it takes 500g +cost of clovers for the cheapest one, thats at todays prices when the game is older/fewer ppl play think of the cost it will end up.

[Hurricane]

Remember My wife is finishing her staff which Im pretty much doing for her.... (happy wife happy life) As well Im about 33 clovers and about 30% mats into my second weapon of Frenzy. My Bow finished cost me with the old 15 silver per ectoplasm and 12 silver per T6 Blood etc about 1k gold in mats (not counting the money in making my base).
I figure it to be about 3-5k for the average legendary now to make from scratch.

Inflation has happened everywhere though. I make 100gp a week casually in about 2 hours on the mystic forge now buying one mat and comboing it higher and selling my resulting items.

You couldn't make 100gp a week when i bought most my mats casually for my bow. Its the same difficulty now as it was for me. It just appears more daunting now because of the bigger numbers involved. I take 100 gold make another 100gold off that gold and spend the profited 100gp on mats for the weapons. I never go for broke buying mats. I suggest anyone attempting a legendary finds a way to make money first gets a chunk going and while farming mats makes cash on the side.

I really doubt they make legendaries much easier. I think if anything they just release some new ascended weapons that have cool effects but not the same attention seeking effects those of us with legendary have or get noticed by.

[The Shadow]

One of the largest issues for me is what you get back from named exotics. Maybe this is just the case for Daggers... but none of the named exotics cost very much anymore. A few days ago Usoku's needle was around 20g, now it's at 10g. I crafted 4 of these in all the money I spent, in that respect I guess I got fairly lucky. But given the chance of actually making them (really quite low) their price, I don't think, is high enough.

Also it's the same skin as Spark, every-time I saw the skin I thought "OMG I FINALLY GOT IT!!!! But no... It's just the skin! Damn it!"

Real pain

Also, judging by the amount of money various people (on this very thread) have put into the forge alone, it becomes really quite obvious that the Mystic forge really is a very successful gold-sink

Edited by The Shadow, 31 December 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Arewn]

Random chance is random. While there's certainly more cynical reasons to be thought up for it, one important thing to remember is that these are legendary weapons and as such rare. The low chance of getting the precursor helps guarantee this.

I mean.. they could have made it a less then 1% drop rate on a boss you can only do once a week, who's loot table is group based and takes about an hour to do with 1 to 10 people depending on classes present, skill and age of content. Not seeing a drop after 2 years of trying is fun too, right?

[Reason on Cooldown]

What exactly have people been throwing into the forge for their precursor?  Rares or exotics?  Everyone here who has specified has said Rares.  ANet has said the odds of a precursor drops are affected by the rarity of the items going in.  Who knows the numbers, but obviously rares are going to have a lesser precursor drop rate than exotics.  Maybe even significantly smaller.

The Shadow, on 31 December 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

But seriously.. Is this what Anet intended when they said they were keeping their eyes on the situation and wanted to make precursors more attainable?

'Cause I'm certainly not seeing it. Shoulda just saved up an extra 150g more and bought the bloody thing off TP.

Maybe they haven't done anything yet.  As other have stated, there is a big update coming Jan/Feb.  There may be a fix in then.  The game has only been out 4 months.  It's been even less time than that since the precursor issue has surfaced.  Monitoring a situation doesn't mean watching it for a week and then rushing to make changes.  They need to see longer term trends on drop rates and TP costs, and community feedback, before they rush to a fix that turns out to be a disaster they can't undo.  And if they are indeed creating a scavenger hunt quest for precursors (I find that idea quite exciting), that takes even more time to implement that just adjusting drop rate tables.

I do agree that relying TOO heavily on RNG for Legendaries makes it seem less prestigious and more "I won the lottery."  Something more skill-based or dedication-based (as in time sink, not gold/karma+RNG/luck sink) would make it feel like the player has some control and hence make it feel like more of an accomplishment.

[Daesu]

The Shadow, on 31 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

One of the largest issues for me is what you get back from named exotics. Maybe this is just the case for Daggers... but none of the named exotics cost very much anymore. A few days ago Usoku's needle was around 20g, now it's at 10g. I crafted 4 of these in all the money I spent, in that respect I guess I got fairly lucky. But given the chance of actually making them (really quite low) their price, I don't think, is high enough.

Also it's the same skin as Spark, every-time I saw the skin I thought "OMG I FINALLY GOT IT!!!! But no... It's just the skin! Damn it!"

Real pain

Also, judging by the amount of money various people (on this very thread) have put into the forge alone, it becomes really quite obvious that the Mystic forge really is a very successful gold-sink

If you want to make money off the MF by crafting exotics without the RNG, I would suggest crafting some of the mystic weapons like the mystic trident, mystic crescent, mystic spike, etc.  You should still earn about 1-2g but at the cost of an Eldritch scroll.

Edited by Daesu, 31 December 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[Ardeni]

Hurricane, on 31 December 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Remember My wife is finishing her staff which Im pretty much doing for her.... (happy wife happy life) As well Im about 33 clovers and about 30% mats into my second weapon of Frenzy. My Bow finished cost me with the old 15 silver per ectoplasm and 12 silver per T6 Blood etc about 1k gold in mats (not counting the money in making my base).
I figure it to be about 3-5k for the average legendary now to make from scratch.

I think that your estimation is badly wrong. There's no way that a legendary would require 3-5k gold to make from scratch. Currently the most expensive legendary weapon is the Twilight (~1400g) and Kudzu, which you mentioned, is ~670g. This only includes the materials that can be bought, though - not karma, skill points and badges of honor. Since you can't buy these, though, a normal player shouldn't include them in the estimation anyways.

---

Personally I hate the rng about the precursors and clovers. That way you can never know how much money you need to farm to make a legendary. I ended up deciding that I won't participate in the rng-fest when making my twilight so I just bought the dusk for ~320g after a few weeks of farming. Now after I'm done, it took me about 1200g to do it. I was unlucky with the clovers, but at least they got me about 50 of each t6 mat so I was quite content with it in the end.

Even if this "scavenging hunt" change will still require (and I'm sure it will) a lot of work to create a precursor, I am happier if there is an alternative way to get one. For me it is much more enjoyable to get to buy something small that counts for the legendary (or precursor) every day instead of farming gold for weeks until you can finally afford something if its price has already risen by 50%.

[Alex Dimitri]

Anyone else has the "feeling" that GW2 turned into tycoon/monopoly game ?

What about people that don`t want to/can`t "play the market" or gather so much gold (some dude above said he spent 1k gold just for mats ).....are we the stepchildren of Anet ?!?

Current system has nothing that can be put into sentence that has "Legendary achievement" in it, it`s all Luck/Gold (sink as much as you can) based.....and simply put sucks !

I don`t care much about Legendary weapon but all this "frenzy" with TP screws up entire "feel" of the game, one example every piece of gear is so much expensive now, some armor sets will come close to that ridiculous T3 cultural armor (in price) i struggle to just equip my new chars i don`t even wanna dream about something like Legendary !

[AKGeo]

Daesu, on 31 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

You lose the opportunity cost of selling it to the TP instead of using it in the MF.  For that matter, you probably wont have needed to buy the rare if not for the MF RNG, thus saving you the gold to do something else instead.

It is a gold sink.

The gold still exists. It's just in another person's inventory. It's not a gold sink at all until that person spends that gold on something like crafting thread, or elonian wine, or salvage kits. The gold items were dropped, thus created, adding "gold" (in value) to the market.

[bdatty]

I made my incinerator the day before the halloween event. kek

[AKGeo]

Alex Dimitri, on 31 December 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Anyone else has the "feeling" that GW2 turned into tycoon/monopoly game ?

What about people that don`t want to/can`t "play the market" or gather so much gold (some dude above said he spent 1k gold just for mats ).....are we the stepchildren of Anet ?!?

Current system has nothing that can be put into sentence that has "Legendary achievement" in it, it`s all Luck/Gold (sink as much as you can) based.....and simply put sucks !

I don`t care much about Legendary weapon but all this "frenzy" with TP screws up entire "feel" of the game, one example every piece of gear is so much expensive now, some armor sets will come close to that ridiculous T3 cultural armor (in price) i struggle to just equip my new chars i don`t even wanna dream about something like Legendary !

You can get enough gold to get T3 armor or exotics without playing the tp at all. It's just slower. Nothing is in the way of you getting what you want in this game EVENTUALLY. Those who can play the TP are just going to get it faster. Oh well, they "earned" it. The only real farming I do is keeping up on the Claw of Jormag for the hope of getting a precursor. And if/when that happens, it'll probably be sold so I have enough liquid cash to get whatever I want when I want it. But until then, I just play the game through, sell/salvage drops, and earn my money that way. I've just gotten 3 more characters to 80 and i'm burning through my gold stores pretty fast to equip them, but once that's done I'll be good.

This game is not only pandering to the "tycoons"...it's also allowing casual players to remain casual.

[Coooturtle]

Im waiting for the scavenger hunt to be added.

[Millimidget]

Hurricane, on 31 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Money is easy what like the OP said isnt is those stupid clovers..... The worse grind in a legendary is the clovers.

Nah, the gold is the worst part; I'm sick of MMOs expecting me to become a day trader just to enjoy their game.

Shatteredz, on 31 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

How is gold being sucked into it?
You buy the rare's from other people, those get your moneyz.

And Anet takes their cut.

AKGeo, on 31 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

The gold still exists. It's just in another person's inventory. It's not a gold sink at all until that person spends that gold on something like crafting thread, or elonian wine, or salvage kits. The gold items were dropped, thus created, adding "gold" (in value) to the market.

See above.

Edited by Millimidget, 31 December 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Lorath]

Symbiont, on 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

i don't care, don't make it any easier arenanet!

They shouldnt make it easier. They should make it not random.

[Symbiont]

Lorath, on 31 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

They shouldnt make it easier. They should make it not random.

something i can agree on, however i don't see it change any time soon.

[Shroomhead Fred]

How the hell did you get 100 charged lodestones?  Seriously!

Most retarded mat requirement in the game IMO.

That's what is killing me on my quest for Bolt.

[Daesu]

AKGeo, on 31 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

The gold still exists. It's just in another person's inventory. It's not a gold sink at all until that person spends that gold on something like crafting thread, or elonian wine, or salvage kits. The gold items were dropped, thus created, adding "gold" (in value) to the market.

I don't mean gold as just gold per se.  What I really mean is wealth or your total net worth, which includes the items that you own.

Someone finds an item loot and gained wealth as a result.  When you trade with him for the loot on the TP, nothing gets destroyed (other than the TP taxes), he gets your gold and you gained his item.  

But if you lose the item to the MF, then your wealth decreases.  Total wealth of the player population decreases as a result.  At the very least you could have just sold the item to a vendor and gained some newly created gold but you didn't and lost it instead.

[The Shadow]

Shroomhead Fred, on 01 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

How the hell did you get 100 charged lodestones?  Seriously!

Most retarded mat requirement in the game IMO.

That's what is killing me on my quest for Bolt.

When I crafted my Aether it only cost me 200g. Now it's around 700g-ish, to craft. But then again I guess 200g meant more back then than it does now, like how a pre-cursor used to be on the TP for 20g and I thought "Wow.. 20g?!"

Charged lodestones have gone up dramatically, not sure why, maybe someone is manipulating them.

[Daesu]

The Shadow, on 01 January 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

When I crafted my Aether it only cost me 200g. Now it's around 700g-ish, to craft. But then again I guess 200g meant more back then than it does now, like how a pre-cursor used to be on the TP for 20g and I thought "Wow.. 20g?!"

Charged lodestones have gone up dramatically, not sure why, maybe someone is manipulating them.

It is more worth it to promote charged cores to charged lodestone than to buy them directly.

[Alleji]

Lucav, on 31 December 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

The simple fact that you can have wildly different amounts of work necessary for a legendary due to rng is a big problem. Its a bad system, and its made worse by the fact that rich players can so easily manipulate the market and make tremendous profits doing so,

This is pretty much what I've been saying back since precursors were 100g.

I'm fine with the grind, NOT fine with the RNG.

[MesmersFromHouseElara]

I had luck getting my precursor, so that never seemed like a bother to me.  I think the process is fair for what we're trying to get, although the idea of a legendary has been a bit diluted since they're pretty common.  I also think it's strange that when the final weapon is forged it's able to be sold on the TP; anyone (with enough g) can have a legendary.  What is that..? It takes some gold to forge the weapon but skill points can't be bought, map exploration can't be bought, the clovers and karma can't be bought....yet the freaking legendary can?

[SevereEpicz]

Coooturtle, on 31 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Im waiting for the scavenger hunt to be added.

pretty much, i can wait

[Daesu]

MesmersFromHouseElara, on 01 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

I had luck getting my precursor, so that never seemed like a bother to me.  I think the process is fair for what we're trying to get, although the idea of a legendary has been a bit diluted since they're pretty common.  I also think it's strange that when the final weapon is forged it's able to be sold on the TP; anyone (with enough g) can have a legendary.  What is that..? It takes some gold to forge the weapon but skill points can't be bought, map exploration can't be bought, the clovers and karma can't be bought....yet the freaking legendary can?

Not only that, someone with enough real money can afford them too.  

Edited by Daesu, 01 January 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[kalliusss]

I think another problem is the fact Anet have made it hard to earn money using any other way than to play the TP. As someone mentioned above you can obtain enough gold doing your normal day to day things and buy your T3 Cultural but a legendary can cost 7 times as much and thats with farming half your materials. I dont play to TP, i work full time and have a family so when I find time to play id rather play with friends and when we go out to farm we hit DR so quickly its not even funny.

The only way ive managed to get half way through completing my legendary has been with gold i got lucky with, for example my first character was a ranger and got cooking up to 400 quickly and when i decided he werent for me i bought up lots of cooking mats from the various karma merchants before it got changed in an update and i also stocked up on T5 and T6 mats when the bots plagued us. I suppose i should consider myself lucky as all i need for my legendary now is the gift of jumping, 40 clovers, 500k+ karma and around 150 more of each T6 mats.

If the bulk of the bots are apparently gone, why on earth arnt DR??

[NeoPomStar]

gamblers_luck, on 31 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Threw in 70 rare greatswords, got 12 exotics including Dusk,  first time I tried this properly.... been told I'm lucky apparently.

I threw in 40 rares and got no exotics...in the end I was at a complete lost of 40 rares.  So yea - you were pretty lucky there.

[Lucav]

MesmersFromHouseElara, on 01 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

I had luck getting my precursor, so that never seemed like a bother to me.  I think the process is fair for what we're trying to get, although the idea of a legendary has been a bit diluted since they're pretty common.  I also think it's strange that when the final weapon is forged it's able to be sold on the TP; anyone (with enough g) can have a legendary.  What is that..? It takes some gold to forge the weapon but skill points can't be bought, map exploration can't be bought, the clovers and karma can't be bought....yet the freaking legendary can?

The thing is, most people dont get lucky with their precursors, so they are forced to deal with the tycoons, which drastically inflates the cost of the legendary. Would you think it was fair if you had to spend an extra 500 gold for your legendary just because the rng didnt like you?

[The Shadow]

Lucav, on 01 January 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The thing is, most people dont get lucky with their precursors, so they are forced to deal with the tycoons, which drastically inflates the cost of the legendary. Would you think it was fair if you had to spend an extra 500 gold for your legendary just because the rng didnt like you?

This is the main issue imo. Like has been posted before;

It's statistically possible to never get a pre-cursor from the forge regardless of how much you spend... Or you can invest 5g and get 5 pre-cursors. That doesn't scream "fair process" to me.

[Alex Dimitri]

I remember talkin` to a buddy of mine about GW2 (summer 2012 june i think) i was so excited i couldn`t stop talking. I told him how great this game will be, with no grind and cash shop that doesn`t affect anything in game, i told him all devs were talkin` and how fancy and original game will be.

Little did i know that Anet will do something like this, something that even far worse gaming company`s didn`t introduce in their games.

If you still don`t see it, take a look again Anet is selling gold trough Cash Shop ! Yes it`s not directly but they do it, exchange gems for gold is just that, Gold selling business !

Now when you think about so low/crapy drop rates, ultra rare mats, and raging inflation on TP do you still think that`s random or maybe someone gave it a little nudge on the right side ?!?