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Warhorns - why don't I see more of them?


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#1 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

None of the Warriors I've encountered in Fractals pack WH. I could write up a really long post, but it boils down to this:

30 Tactics incl. Quick Breathing + 2x Monk rune + 2x Water rune equals: perma Vigor + perma Swiftness for everyone within 1200.

To me this seems pretty goddamn awesome. Am I missing something?

#2 Lucav

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

nope, its pretty goddamn awesome

#3 dawdler

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

Yeah you are missing something. People dont want to play while constantly blowing their horn.

#4 SpelignErrir

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

View Postdawdler, on 01 January 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Yeah you are missing something. People dont want to play while constantly blowing their horn.

Yeah, everybody wants somebody else to do the blowing but refuse to do the blowing themselves

#5 Black Autumn

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread given how it's already degenerating...but I love my Warhorn.  Of course, that doesn't really address why you aren't seeing them.  I don't even run any boon-lengthening runes and I love it.  Oh, and I've only done a single Fractal run as a random 5th for another guild...and I wasn't on my horn then.  But I've come back to it.  I love the speed, the condition management, the boons, the weakness.  Gives me a lot of utility that's hard to find elsewhere.

My best non-double-entendre guess is that it doesn't offer hard defense or damage, opting instead for 'soft' defense and boons.  Maybe the benefits are not so immediately recognizable via casual perusal?  

Anyway, just thought I'd poke in as a Warhorn-loving Warrior.  =P

#6 lmaonade

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

warhorn is amazing, but where would it be placed?

In an FOTM run (talking about higher levels) shield is indispensable, and as for the 2nd weapon set, a ranged weapon is usually needed. Warhorn is only more useful than shield in a select few fractals.

If there were a 1 handed ranged weapon option for warrior I'd jump on it immediately, but unfortunately my slots are all used up

#7 Zerikin Loukbel

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

I would agree that its largely because shield is seen as offering generally superior utility. Vigor isn't that great for most fights IMO and several professions already have a way to grant it to themselves. Swiftness is nice but I get 39s of that from signet of rage already.

#8 dawdler

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

View Postlmaonade, on 02 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

warhorn is amazing, but where would it be placed?

In an FOTM run (talking about higher levels) shield is indispensable, and as for the 2nd weapon set, a ranged weapon is usually needed. Warhorn is only more useful than shield in a select few fractals.

If there were a 1 handed ranged weapon option for warrior I'd jump on it immediately, but unfortunately my slots are all used up
TBH, this is exactly my feeling as well.

To analyze it further, the warhorn is great but the problem is that it replaces just as great things. Having a ranged weapon is highly desirable in any situation, leaving only one available set. The sheild is better for defense and the axe/mace is better for offense.

On top of this, there is another problem - the position of the warhorn trait. To fully use the warhorn, you want it. But if you got 30 points in the line, it probably mean you have either shout heal or banner heal. Banner works as the cd reduction trait is on tier 1. BUT most of us are running shout healing with the shout cd trait - which is tier 2. Same tier as the warhorn trait. Combining the ever so popular shout healing and warhorn doesnt work well as shout healing effective blocks tier 2 and 3 from other options. Of course there are plenty of other builds, but many of them still rely on the shout cd.

If there was a pistol/warhorn combo for the Warrior, I'd love it as I only consider ranged "secondary" and dont really need the offensive power of either longbow or rifle - I just want some ranged in there. But unfortunetly there isnt.

Right now the only use I see for the warhorn is WvW. When you willingly sacrifice yourself for the group by crippling your abilities as a Warrior - you either loose ranged completely or significant melee capabilities no matter what combo you do. Take your pick. I do this quite often and to be honest, I hate it. I feel forced to go axe/warhorn/greatsword to have offensive flexibility as I am often running with the guild, so its close quarters melee charges. If I go axe/warhorn/longbow I am lacking flexibility in melee range as all I can do is pretty much flail with autoattack. The vigor/weakness of the warhorn 5 skill is pretty useless since there are too much stuns being thrown around and most run high crit builds. Fighting a sluggish tank with it would be awesome but well... The group kills sluggish tanks in 1 second.

So alas, the warhorn just ruin my Warrior setup. Yet I have to use it :(

#9 matsif

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:07 AM

I keep one around for the swiftness boost (easy to keep perma swiftness up when running around exploring with an untraited warhorn and signet of rage), but honestly I prefer a ranged weapon and my hammer.  and as stated above you can't really run shout heals with a traited warhorn.

#10 Millimidget

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

View Postlmaonade, on 02 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

and as for the 2nd weapon set, a ranged weapon is usually needed.
This says it all. I suppose a heal warrior could use it effectively, though, since they can either use it in their primary setup or forgo the ranged weapon.

I used to use sword+warhorn/rifle in WvW back in September/October, since there isn't much utility in offhand sword. After the population started dying down and I started actively avoiding large fights, the utility seems less important, so I switched to sword+sword/rifle.

View Postmatsif, on 03 January 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

and as stated above you can't really run shout heals with a traited warhorn.
You don't necessarily need to trait the warhorn, but I would totally agree with the sentiment that too much support is tied up in that one tree.

Edited by Millimidget, 03 January 2013 - 01:23 AM.


#11 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:22 PM

View Postlmaonade, on 02 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

warhorn is amazing, but where would it be placed?

In an FOTM run (talking about higher levels) shield is indispensable, and as for the 2nd weapon set, a ranged weapon is usually needed. Warhorn is only more useful than shield in a select few fractals.

If there were a 1 handed ranged weapon option for warrior I'd jump on it immediately, but unfortunately my slots are all used up

I'll reply to this post as most of the others seem to derive from it. Whether the Shield is actually a must-have for higher level Fractals or not, I choose to take it. To illustrate, this is the build I now run:

http://gw2skills.net...qjrLpOLIGWsFZKC

I have a Longbow and a Rifle in the backpack but I consider them pretty pathetic. If the best idea is to plink away from a distance, why bother with a Warrior in the first place?

For those Shout healers out there: I think IX is superior to XII. :)

Edited by Ninja Battle Lion, 03 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#12 Sieghildr

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 03 January 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

For those Shout healers out there: I think IX is superior to XII. :)

I'm not sure what you mean. They serve different purposes in my eyes. Are you trying to say that a Warrior running IX with a warhorn makes Shout Heal builds obsolete?

Edited by Sieghildr, 03 January 2013 - 08:05 PM.


#13 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

View PostSieghildr, on 03 January 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean. They serve different purposes in my eyes. Are you trying to say that a Warrior running IX with a warhorn makes Shout Heal builds obsolete?
Well, I can't say one is -strictly- better than the other but I find the burst heal provided by XII less useful than tacking 2 party wide condition removals on your bar. I'm coming from a Shout Heal build myself but the lure of perma Vigor won me over, and after making the trade I really haven't looked back. I just gave my honest opinion.

YMMV, as always.

#14 lmaonade

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:52 AM

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 03 January 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

I'll reply to this post as most of the others seem to derive from it. Whether the Shield is actually a must-have for higher level Fractals or not, I choose to take it. To illustrate, this is the build I now run:

http://gw2skills.net...qjrLpOLIGWsFZKC

I have a Longbow and a Rifle in the backpack but I consider them pretty pathetic. If the best idea is to plink away from a distance, why bother with a Warrior in the first place?

For those Shout healers out there: I think IX is superior to XII. :)

Just because the warrior class is good up close doesn't mean short range is good in all situations, certain situations require range.

I keep a warhorn in my inventory in case I don't need/want the shield, but I rarely use it in active combat (I use it in dungeons because they are easy mode, but I'm talking about more difficult content), and I keep a range weapon handy in case I make a mistake or if the situation requires one.

Don't get me wrong, I love the warhorn and love using it, the condition conversion, removal, and boons are awesome, and I don't know why people don't regularly use it, I'm just giving you an example where warhorn would be an inferior choice.

#15 dawdler

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 03 January 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

I have a Longbow and a Rifle in the backpack but I consider them pretty pathetic. If the best idea is to plink away from a distance, why bother with a Warrior in the first place?
Hence why many people dont use them as primary. But they are still considered a necessary secondary. If you want to back away to heal up, how much dps do you do with a greatsword from 10m distance? You cant be in melee all the time, simple fact.

If you think they are pathetic you arent using them correctly either. Longbow F1+3 = nuclear strike. Gives you fire sheild when you switch and eviscerate/rush/whatever and grant burning to everyone firing into it. With 15 points in discipline you do that in the switch cd (have about 1 second left) then you switch back. Great against groups.

Edited by dawdler, 04 January 2013 - 09:45 AM.





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