640 replies to this topic

[RaoulDukeHST]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Euhm I don't think so..
The game is their property, they set rules you need to follow, if you don't follow these rules they have reason to suspend you no matter what.
I think it's even in the EULA they can ban people for whatever reason they like, etc..

You do realize a EULA means NOTHING when a country regulations are in place right?You can agree to whatever you want in an EULA,you sell it on a countries territory,you must obey the laws that are put in place.

[Ambassador Sharez]

RaoulDukeHST, on 05 January 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

You do realize arenanet is forced the refund if the person getting banned asks for their money back?

check eula,then wait.........
wait........
wait......
wait.......
realize that you were wrong and edit

[Runkleford]

Alleji, on 05 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Are you (and all the people who clicked "like" on this post) f*cking serious?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Are you moving to Mars then? Anyway I don't think people are asking that "legitimate" market manipulators to be banned or that cheaters should not be banned, banning isn't the real issue here, it's the harm that comes from both of these practices that's the real issue. It's totally "fine" in ANET's eyes to monopolize and manipulate the market through the TP if you're rich enough to do it but why is it? Why are there no systems in place to keep this practice from getting out of hand? I get that some folks think this practice is completely fine but why is it? It's just as harmful as some guy using the snowflake exploit if not more so in terms of making it harder for the casual player to afford anything on the TP.

I mean since the criteria for banning is because a person is using an unintended tactic AND the result of this practice is hurting other players (through the economy) then how is a "legitimate" practice that is hurting other players acceptable? It seems the criteria set by ANET is whether or not they deem it legitimate rather than if it hurts other players. That's the problem I have with this whole thing. I don't care about people getting banned, as far as I'm concerned cheaters deserve bans but on the other hand, there's very little distinction between this and "legit" practices.

[RaoulDukeHST]

Ambassador Sharez, on 05 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

check eula,then wait.........
wait........
wait......
wait.......
realize that you were wrong and edit

another person who doesn't know how the law works...EDIT fast before you embarrass yourself

Edited by RaoulDukeHST, 05 January 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[xarallei]

Ambassador Sharez, on 05 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

check eula,then wait.........
wait........
wait......
wait.......
realize that you were wrong and edit

Actually EULA doesn't apply in certain territories. So yes, Anet does have to give people their money back if they live in those places. Like the other person mentioned, it's the law of the country that governs. It trumps EULA.

[meeks]

Since Anet seems to love preaching personal responsibility it must be safe to assume the fired whoever was responsible for creating that recipe.  I mean he/she knew what they were doing would hurt the economy and still added it to the game.

[ReMarkable91]

Response Via Email (Karen) 01/04/2013 07:34 PM
Hello,

As a follow-up to our previous discussion about your account closure related to snowflake exploit, a few players whose accounts were terminated have written to ask about a possible refund. We will be reviewing the details of each terminated account and if you are eligible for a refund, we will process that within seven days.

Regards,

Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com



They check from what country the banned person is. If they see that country does not aprove there EULA like every single EU country does they get there money back

[Ambassador Sharez]

RaoulDukeHST, on 05 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

another person who doesn't know how the law works...EDIT fast before you embarrass yourself

can you actually link 2 sentence that give the right to the banned user and forced the Sh to give him a refound?I know quite some case of "smartass" that tryed to have a refound but that lose the case (i remember some EVE sentence,i'm gonna check if i can find it again)


srry for the bad english

[RaoulDukeHST]

Ambassador Sharez, on 05 January 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

can you actually link 2 sentence that give the right to the banned user and forced the Sh to give him a refound?I know quite some case of "smartass" that tryed to have a refound but that lose the case (i remember some EVE sentence,i'm gonna check if i can find it again)


srry for the bad english

Every country has a different legislation.Here in the EU you can ask for a refund for a banned account,i know because i got one for diablo 3 (i got banned for using a 3rd party software so i can run it on Linux).Most asian countries have similar legislation,and i think also Canada.Don't know about US,knowing how biased the legal system is there,probably not.

[Ambassador Sharez]

RaoulDukeHST, on 05 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Every country has a different legislation.Here in the EU you can ask for a refund for a banned account,i know because i got one for diablo 3 (i got banned for using a 3rd party software so i can run it on Linux).Most asian countries have similar legislation,and i think also Canada.Don't know about US,knowing how biased the legal system is there,probably not.

kk ty anyway.

in topic:

actually suck that due to an anet fail some people (that yea abused..so some punishment was fine,but permaban is excessive)got permabanned

[Bryant Again]

Momorazor, on 05 January 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Because that would send wrong message to the rest of the players.
When someone find bug he would exploit it because there would be 2 possible outcomes.
1. They will not find it out in which case i will get to keep everything i got from exploiting bug
2. They will find out and take everything i earned by exploiting the bug
As u can see there wouldnt really be reason not to exploit bugs.
With perma banning these offenders they are sending clear message to all players and that is we will find out and u will be baned.
These bans are more than deserved. Im sick of how ppls are hypocritical in these things.

What happened to forgive and forget? This isn't Wallstreet we're dealing with, it's a place where people hit monsters with swords, a video game. That some people don't see any alternative punishment besides "BAN THEM" is incredibly sad and scary. Hopefully more are able to see refunds, if they can't get the ban appealed.

1up, on 04 January 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

I think it's funny they all got banned because Anet is bad at their jobs. It's like putting Crack in a Crackhead's hand and saying don't smoke it. I've never seen a game so quick to ban their player base, it's pretty retarded. Other games just take the stuff and or money back and move on. Really no surprise this game is doing horrible at this point. Either get banned or people just don't want to play the game because of the bugs and failed mechanics.

I like this post and am letting everyone know!!!

Edited by Bryant Again, 05 January 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[chrisbdrake]

d_fens, on 04 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Of course nobody is perfect. However if a mistake happens, someone has to take responsibility for it and apologize, not push that responsibility on paying customers.



This is the problem with software developers. They think that software quality is QA's job. No it isn't. It's programmer's and designer's job. Peer reviews and internal testing during coding can do wonders if done properly. Big QA department is not even needed if you set up public test server. They are perfect for replicating live conditions.


Again, public test server says hello. Hell, failure we are talking about is not something that should even make it to test server. It's not something that couldn't be caught without testing environment similar to live one (number of players, high workload, etc). It was a matter of checking if salvaging that piece of jewellery returns proper materials. It's not like they added whole bunch of recipes during wintersday. Standard, well written test case should have caught that.

I've been in the development business for  years.  You are wrong when you say that mistakes like this don't get through test servers  Mistakes like this quite often get released.  Testers miss a lot of simple errors.

[Millimidget]

Runkleford, on 05 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

It's just as harmful as some guy using the snowflake exploit if not more so in terms of making it harder for the casual player to afford anything on the TP.

It's several orders of magnitude more harmful. Come to think of it, I haven't seen anyone explain just how the snowflakes were harmful; more expensive gathering mats and cheaper globs benefit everyone except people actively betting on an increase in glob prices, or people trying to level via crafting.

RaoulDukeHST, on 05 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Don't know about US,knowing how biased the legal system is there,probably not.

Don't act like your shit don't stink; I can still recall the billing nightmares many EU players went through in WAR because of a lack of consumer banking protections. I'd rather forgo the opportunity for a refund than be left subject to the machinations of Garena.

Edited by Millimidget, 05 January 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[DuskWolf]

Here is an objective fact: If ArenaNet had a public test server and put out this content for the playerbase to test before landing it on live, none of these issues would ever reach live.

The culmination of this is that none of this would have happened, there would have been no exploits to ban for. Therefore, ArenaNet is landing bugged content and then banning people for human nature.

Yeah, GW2 is going to last a long, long time.

Seriously, ArenaNet, just... public test server. It's not that freaking hard. EVERYONE ELSE HAS ONE!

(Edit: Wrote private test, meant to write public.)

Edited by DuskWolf, 06 January 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Trei, on 04 January 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

General rule of thumb:

If something makes you hesitate even the slightest and go "is this intended?"... then it is not, until officially confirmed otherwise.

And tell me, when you find a thread on the trashole main forum so much controlled by mods without any anet post on it, explaining exactly the procedure, with just a couple guys typing "uhm, i think is an exploit" , how exactly a stressed guy playing from months, constantly poor not over 30-40g saving from long, is gonna think is an exploit, expecially when other users posted the math and possibilities and loss and thread not locked/ deleted? After all it wasn't a perfect 100% "you use 1 ecto, you have 5 ectos" dupe, had losses and sometimes you had to redo the entire process.
After all, crafting using t5 mats of every other crafting discipline was giving you ectos sometimes, so why not. Did you crafted using ectos? Why the hell you have ectos back? Isn't it an abuse, an exploit? No? Why.

Gilles VI, on 04 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Name me other MMO's that have a sub fee that don't charge a box price?

DC universe. (you can play for free, but most major functions are not available)

chrisbdrake, on 04 January 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

No, it's not that simple.  You may be surprised to learn tat MMO's are extremely complex pieces of code filled with unintended circumstances.  If they waited until the code was perfect to release it, it would never see the light of day.  It's not like baking a batch of cookies.

Stop pretending to know how mmo and programming works. A dev prepare a content. Which yes, can be faulty or badly programmed, it's a complex content.
QA paid workers test it before goes online. Guess what, it's their work. We are customers, players, we are not paid for find every bugs.
Being specific about snowflakes, this exploit wasn't at all "you have to use just an asura, and then after you complete the rata sum jumping puzzle, in that exact moment when you complete it you have to craft quickly and then salvage, you will get back more ectos". This is an incredible and hard to recognize exploit, rare to find (but not impossible, happens when thousand players go around playing the content) who can justify a human error programming. A core function like craft using a recipe, having mats, then check the behaviour when salvaged, is a  basic function of the game and the crafting discipline. A QA with some brain and a salary plan his work to check core functions firsts then advanced functions, then at last, special cases until possible and his personal attempts to create a unique environment like the "just the asura after the jp.. " i wrote.
As you see, this junk mmo has an extremely poor staff management,  QA test is not made by paid workers who knows how to do their work as expected by every big mmo (expecially a paid mmo, we paid the account) but instead we, paid customers, are the testers.
Everything happens is on our back, if something is wrong or an exploit, well, QA player is absolutely not banned, was his work to find (or eventually read about it on the forum) , and test it deeply confirming was truly a bad behaviour giving away loads of ectos. We users are terminated. EU customers at least will get back their cash maybe soon. NA customers, well, hehe..

Now i wonder: it's weeks, months everyone is typing on the main forum, on fanbased forum, reddit, various blogs, everywhere how trashy is this game, how the company is managing the game in a pathetic scamming way, trillion new bugs constantly online even bugs where customers pay the price perma banned (like the snowflakes one) and still, there is people left on this game?
Even still using  a credit card wasting cash for the so famous (even on chistmas, talking about greedy and immoral) gemstore scam?
I can do an 3 pages long list of wrong things on this game to leave even the strongest illuded fanboy disgusted, but i will talk about this exact topic of the thread:

True, who abused of this bug ingame deserved a punishment. But considering this kind of bug was available from day one, did you wonder how many used it?
Some used it just a bit, realizing something was wrong, and in the doubt, left.
Some (like me) didn't give a damn of new recipes at all, never even being aware of this bug. (I discovered it yesterday night opening this thread , back from holidays, go figure).
Some tought "lemme check" finding a thread and reddit posts explaining exactly the procedure, the loss, the math, and no Anet employee warning the community it was a bug and soon removed, inviting customers to not use it until fixed.
So "why not? i miss 70 ectos for my mesmer weapon, finally i can complete it" some tought (as you see, no cashout involved, just personal interests to craft his weapon).
Some with an evil grin started to abuse of it massively, looking forward to the huge income.

Now, how a serious company would deal with this mess? Instead of act like a judge dredd pretending to choose who is worthy to have his account killed or not, simply do a reroll of the system deleting from the world the incident. Who was involved on this bug abusing of it, get back his account as it was before the first abuse, players not involved will never be aware of it if not reading a thread about what happened and the reroll on a forum.
Guess what, an efficent staff removing ater 3 minutes the bug was expected. If not finding the bug by themself as expected, at least in a matter of 3 minutes from when it went public. Instead no, 4 days, no Anet post.
Just a bug, a fault of the company, from dev to QA. Turned to be an exploit for permaban.
No, noone have to pay. Nor Anet, nor us. Just fix it, reroll abusers. Easy isn't it, it's their fault leaving junk online. Instead no. Customers banned, this is the best right? And people is even happy of paid friends who are no more online, just because desperate of this crappy game where everything is unreacheable if not grinding like mad and spending a lot of gold? Are you serious? Stop telling us "they are just junk, they all deserved to be terminated".
No, not everyone was a trashy shark.

What's fun even if everyone reading my post, even the entire forum reading it will type "Lucas is right, screw this game, i'm leaving", wouldn't fix. Sadly, this thread nor my post would  target every customer. Would not wake up the minds of who still believe Anet choice banning his own customers for their fault is not exactly how a serious mmo company works. Even typing 3 pages of what this game has wrong and the junk still online and kept being released every day would help. A sheep, will always remain a sheep. Enjoy gw2, until next time you're banned because you didn't open the main forum before log, just crafting and salvaging something else receiving, oh damn, some ectos. Then, maybe you will remember Lucas post posting around about the junk online and how this company behave as a low class unnamed trashy one. Nah, useless hope, even if is abusively permabanned, a sheep will buy a new account again.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 06 January 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Trei]

Lucas Ashrock, on 06 January 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

......

Are we talking about the same exploit here?

Players were not banned for simply salvaging items into ectos, friend.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Enlight me , because the OP talks about unappropriate ecto dupe , and this thread too https://forum-en.gui...rst#post1132023 and this one https://forum-en.gui...to-stacks/first

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 06 January 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Trei]

Is that normal salvage to you?

Could you show me any other recipe currently in game that gives the same kind of results?
Don't have to be ectos.

Did you read this article?

Edited by Trei, 06 January 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[Nikephoros]

I like that the most pro-ban people are also the same ignorant people who...

1.  Don't even understand the mechanics of the so-called "exploit.  For example, there was no duping of ecto.  Currently we have a system that allows for the trading of t5 mats to ecto at a particular rate by crafting and salvaging rares.  This snowflake recipe allowed for a slightly more favorable exchange rate temporarily until the market realized that snowflakes were more valuable than priced.  Once mithril ore, and snowflakes, went up in price there was no profit to be made and thus nothing that could be construed as an "exploit."  But this is far beyond the comprehension of the average casual player.  The average casual players reads Ms. Grey's intentionally misleading statement and thinks "duping ecto" and to them that becomes gospel.

2.  Don't understand basic economics.  As I said above, this craft/salvage chain was only profitable so long as the market undervalued snowflakes and mithril.  Once normal market forces push up the prices of mithril and snowflakes and dropped ecto a bit no one was making a profit by salvaging this recipe any longer.  Is that the definition of "damaging the economy"?  To me, that sounds like the economy "working as it should."  A real damage to the economy would have been a real duping situation where something was made from nothing, and the price of ecto collapses to the vendor buy price.  Ofcourse, nothing like that came close to happening, or would have happened even if the flawed recipe had remained in the game and was never patched.  

I don't see how anyone, apprised of these facts, can support account termination for the salvagers.  Since the fact based position does not support the ban, I feel no need to treat the ignorant opinion of anyone who denies the facts with anything resembling respect.

Edited by Nikephoros, 06 January 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[d_fens]

ReMarkable91, on 05 January 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I would like to know more about this , I am planning on writing Paypal about this especialy since I bought gems 50 days ago. Can't make a chargeback after 45 while I did the so called exploiting 19 days ago. They waited with the ban after that 45 period was over.
Especialy since I am 100 % sure I can't be blamed for exploiting cause it was not obvious in my case for 2 reasons. 1 I didn't make any proffit even lost gold on avarage (salvaged 100 first 50 2 G proffit 2nd 50 3 G loss) and 2nd It baraly affected the market. I used it with Orichalcum they went from 2,7 to 2,8 and the snowflake didn't sky rocket it was at 1 S each vs the mithril snowflake roofing to 30. Only made the price of ecto go from 30 to 25 but that looked intented after they promised ascanded backpieces would be easyer to obtain. And also was the cause of more players playing = more rare drops = more ectos.

EU consumer laws state that terms of any service (not only online gaming) has to be fully known before customer pays for service. There have been many rulings in EU courts that stated that in case of software bought in a box, terms of service must be made available in print outside of the box before customer pays for it. Simply printing a web link on the box is not enough. In case of digtal purchase terms of service must also be viewable/printable before customer pays (show me a retailer who actually does this :| ). If those conditions are not met, and service provider terminates your service based on ToS/EULA you did not know before you paid, you have full rights for refund. There have been many such cases concerning bans in WoW (some of them described in detail on MMO-champion).

[Lucas Ashrock]

Trei, on 06 January 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Is that normal salvage to you?

Could you show me any other recipe currently in game that gives the same kind of results?
Don't have to be ectos.

Did you read this article?

Yes i did, i linked the main forum redirecting to it. I don't get your point. Ye, it's not normal kits, its Black lion

Nikephoros, on 06 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

I like that the most pro-ban people are also the same ignorant people who...

1.  Don't even understand the mechanics of the so-called "exploit.  For example, there was no duping of ecto.  Currently we have a system that allows for the trading of t5 mats to ecto at a particular rate by crafting and salvaging rares.

No dupe of ectos?

Quote

How to Make 1 Glob of Ectoplasm Into Stacks of Ectoplasm

by Power » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:12 pm
By the time you read this guide, this clever flipping trick may have been used so many times (or Wintersday may be over ) and it may not be profitable anymore; So use it at your own risk, and nevertheless, we shall continue!

Wintersday is upon us and with it comes new items and new recipes!

If you're like me you:

a.) Are a Jeweler

b.) Have stacks of mithril ore/ingots (because they're useless to lvl 80s)

c.) Have a few black lion salvage kits (because they drop a bunch from black lion chests)

d.) Have a single Pristine Snowflake (easily obtainable from various Wintersday activities or cheaply from the trading post)

d.) Have a single Glob of Ectoplasm (easily obtainable by salvaging a lvl 70+ rare/exotic with a good salvage kit)

---------------------------------------

Get started by making a Brilliant Snowflake (or buying one), here are the ingredients:

-1 Glob of Ectoplasm

-1 Mithril Filigree
• 
  
  ---> 2 Mithril Ingots
  -1 Pristine Snowflake

Now let's use up all of that mithril you have, and all of those kits! Now make 1 mithril setting and 1 mithril Hook! Here are the ingredients:

-1 Mithril Setting
• 
  
  ---> 2 Mithril Ingots
  -1 Mithril Hook
• 
  
  ---> 2 Mithril Ingots

Then make a Snowflake Mithril Earring of Winter (you'll have to discover it the first time) by combining the 3 things you have made: the brilliant snowflake, the setting and the hook.

You have now just made a lvl 75 rare trinket. Grab your black lion salvage kit and salvage it. You have a chance of getting 1-3 ectos, some mithril ore, and you're guaranteed to get back your brilliant snowflake- meaning you can repeat this until you use up all of your mithril!

So what this guy is talking about?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 06 January 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[FoxBat]

Lucas Ashrock, on 06 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

So what this guy is talking about?

Turning mithril into ectos, not duping ectos infinitely out of thin air.

That is a problematic and ecto value-damaging oversight (mithril is common as hell no matter what the price jumps to), but I agree it's nowhere near the level of duping, and therefore not obvious ban material.

Edited by FoxBat, 06 January 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[ReMarkable91]

His 1-3 Ectoplasm is false , it is 0-3 with an avarage of 0.9. 2nd off all he used a gemstore product black lion salvage kit , that is just pure wasted advice 99 % of the people used the Master salvage kit who had 20 % chance to lose the upgrade.
He forgot to mention the most important part wich is u allways lose 5-7 mithril ore no matter what , so basicly he was exchanging 5-7 mithril ores for a chance of ecotoplasm with an 0,9 avarage outcome. And on the normal way with a 20 % chance to lose another 4 mithrils and an glob.

So as long u lose other items u can't call it 100  % proffit duping , it would had ballanced the market at price of 7 Mithril = price of a glob. Like at the moment the price of glob = price of crafting an rare (15 t5 mats + other mats needed).

Well u can argue if it was intended and should have been seen as an fail in the system or not by the "exploiters" and if a permaban is the way to go in stead of a 7 day ban and having to pay back proffit gain + 50 % extra (made 100 G? oke ur 150 G in depth.)

The thing I am mad about is they also banned players like me who did not used the mithril version (didn't even knew about it till this week). Also the players who used the orichalcum ore who never made any big proffit exept if had a realy good RNG. I made a loss with my 100 crafts to test it out(first 50 2 G proffit 2nd 50 3 G loss). And the prices of orichalcum barely changed same for the snowflake. So it is just pure madness that those person should have seen this as an exploit.

[AKGeo]

Hell, if I'd have known about this exploit before the fix I'd have offloaded my snowflakes right away. There's no way I'm going to be risking the wrath of Anet's over-zealous banhammer by participating, but I would definitely have capitalized on my existing stores of abnormally high-priced goods that I have no other intention of using.

[Momorazor]

Bryant Again, on 05 January 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

What happened to forgive and forget? This isn't Wallstreet we're dealing with, it's a place where people hit monsters with swords, a video game. That some people don't see any alternative punishment besides "BAN THEM" is incredibly sad and scary. Hopefully more are able to see refunds, if they can't get the ban appealed.



I like this post and am letting everyone know!!!

What happen with dont cheat and steal. I wouldnt have problem with forgiving them, honestly, but thing is humans are nasty sort of creature. Lot more than half of humans dont care about right and wrong. That is reason why we have laws.
And last thing i want to say is : yes this is game and for most of players it is fun but for Anet is bussines.
Besides is it fair that someone cheat and make lot of gold in matter of minutes while someone work hard for a long amount of time to make same amount.

PS about your claim that this isnt Wallstreet. Did u watch TP recently. Sadly this is kinda like Wallstreet.

Edited by Momorazor, 07 January 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[chrisbdrake]

Lucas Ashrock, on 06 January 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Stop pretending to know how mmo and programming works. A dev prepare a content. Which yes, can be faulty or badly programmed, it's a complex content.
QA paid workers test it before goes online. Guess what, it's their work. We are customers, players, we are not paid for find every bugs.

It is you that is the pretender.  You seem to think that everything is released without bugs and QA Testers are gods that  catch every error.  Errors get through, exploiters get banned this is the way it's been since the early days of EQ.  Get over yourself child.

[chrisbdrake]

Here's a warning to the kiddies that think people shouldn't be banned for exploiting software bugs.  If you exploit software bug in a casino you will be banned for life and if you are in a refutable casino, you will be charged with a felony.  In a disreputable casino, you may get the crap beat out of you.

[Resolve]

Am I the only one who just does not care about the people that got banned for exploiting this?

If you exploit then you should be prepared to face the consequences for it. They don't even ban you for doing it a little bit, it's only when you abuse the shit out of it that you get a ban. Pretty funny that people still haven't learned this after the karma weapons drama.

[Trei]

Bryant Again, on 05 January 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

What happened to forgive and forget? This isn't Wallstreet we're dealing with, it's a place where people hit monsters with swords, a video game. That some people don't see any alternative punishment besides "BAN THEM" is incredibly sad and scary. Hopefully more are able to see refunds, if they can't get the ban appealed.....

I've always had an issue with this phrase "forgive and forget".
What meaning does forgiveness have, if we forget?

These offenders could always get another new copy of the game and be allowed to return to the game afresh.
Is that not forgiving ?

Edited by Trei, 07 January 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

chrisbdrake, on 07 January 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

It is you that is the pretender.  You seem to think that everything is released without bugs and QA Testers are gods that  catch every error.  Errors get through, exploiters get banned this is the way it's been since the early days of EQ.  Get over yourself child.

A core function like destroy a new object created with a new recipe with every salvage kit ingame is a simple base function even a retard QA can find in a matter of a couple minutes, not an extremely rare to find special case created on unique environment. Big difference. Type something who can stand on his leg before flame, kid.

Trei, on 07 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

I've always had an issue with this phrase "forgive and forget".
What meaning does forgiveness have, if we forget?

These offenders could always get another new copy of the game and be allowed to return to the game afresh.
Is that not forgiving ?

Nope it's not. It's just security department who don't check if the new user was already registered and banned, just a lack of proper staff working for this company who cares of it. Reason because a goldseller if banned buy a new account and spam again "selling gold, big deal , visit www. " A serious company wouldn't allow something so idiot, that's why people ask if buy a new account would work, we are used to a serious behaviour.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 07 January 2013 - 05:15 AM.